Half of US social program recipients believe they have not used a government program

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Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
#1
http://www.boingboing.net/2011/07/08/half-of-us-social-pr.html



"Reconstituting the Submerged State: The Challenges of Social Policy Reform in the Obama Era," a paper by Cornell's Clinton Rossiter Professor of American Institutions Suzanne Mettler features this remarkable chart showing that about half of American social program beneficiaries believe that they "have not used a government social program." It's the "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" phenomena writ large: a society of people who subsist on mutual aid and redistributive policies who've been conned (and conned themselves) into thinking that they are rugged individualists and that everyone else is a parasite.
 
#2
It's the "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" phenomena writ large: a society of people who subsist on mutual aid and redistributive policies who've been conned (and conned themselves) into thinking that they are rugged individualists and that everyone else is a parasite.
No, it's only the parasites who have been "conned" into thinking they're not part of the problem. The rest of society isn't wrong when they complain they're paying for (and not getting) government aid because they're not getting government aid.
 
#7
Mudkips said:
No, it's only the parasites who have been "conned" into thinking they're not part of the problem. The rest of society isn't wrong when they complain they're paying for (and not getting) government aid because they're not getting government aid.

I'm a parasite for having recieved student lonad, grants, mortage deductions?

Social secrutiy?

WTF?

Veterans benifits?

GI's?

WTF WTF?
 
#14
Government needs an advertising agency.

Send out letters.


"Dear Citizen, President Obama and the Federal Government would like to thank you for taking advantage of the ___ program, funded in whole by the taxpayer. These benefits will help you _____ and _____. Please remember the help given to you by the Federal Government by exercising your constitutional right to vote".
 
#15
jamesinclair said:
Government needs an advertising agency.

Send out letters.


"Dear Citizen, President Obama and the Federal Government would like to thank you for taking advantage of the ___ program, funded in whole by the taxpayer. These benefits will help you _____ and _____. Please remember the help given to you by the Federal Government by exercising your constitutional right to vote".
I think this would be excellent.
 
#16
Mudkips said:
No, it's only the parasites who have been "conned" into thinking they're not part of the problem. The rest of society isn't wrong when they complain they're paying for (and not getting) government aid because they're not getting government aid.
Yeah fuck the elderly and the veterans!

I'm glad to see you have no problem dehumanizing your fellow human beings.
 
#18
jamesinclair said:
Government needs an advertising agency.

Send out letters.


"Dear Parasitic Citizen, President Obama and the Federal Government would like to thank you for taking advantage of the ___ program, funded in whole by the taxpayer. These benefits will help you _____ and _____. Please remember the help given to you by the Federal Government by exercising your constitutional right to vote".

Fixed
 
#19
Mudkips said:
No, it's only the parasites who have been "conned" into thinking they're not part of the problem. The rest of society isn't wrong when they complain they're paying for (and not getting) government aid because they're not getting government aid.
Thank goodness not everyone is as shortsighted as you.
 
#20
FlightOfHeaven said:
Thank goodness not everyone is as shortsighted as you.
You either did not read my post, or did not understand it.

Obsessed said:
Yeah fuck the elderly and the veterans!

I'm glad to see you have no problem dehumanizing your fellow human beings.
Same goes for you.


Fenderputty said:
I'm a parasite for having recieved student lonad, grants, mortage deductions?

Social secrutiy?

WTF?

Veterans benifits?

GI's?

WTF WTF?
...and you.

"Parasite" wasn't my word.

The article is implying that all of society is hypocritical to complain about government aid programs. The article uses a survey of people who do receive aid, showing many who do receive aid don't know it.

"How can you complain about aid?! So many people receive aid and don't know it!" is a terrible logical fallacy. Many people complaining about these government programs DON'T receive aid, and aren't reflected in this survey at all. Furthermore, many people complaining about specific government programs don't have problems with others.

The article is bad.
 
#21
Dreams-Visions said:
ITP: people believe "social programs" = welfare and nothing else. And even a large percentage of those recipients are out of touch.

Intellectual horizons are low.
And that because they pay taxes they are more entitled than other tax payers to dictate what gets aid and what doesn't.

Big picture, people.
 
#23
I've never taken anything from the government. I've always worked, paid for my own school or gotten loans from the bank when I needed them. There is no way I wouldn't know...

I don't consider the GI bill or VA as handouts, they're job bonuses and retirement benefits used to attract employees. You have to work for them.
 
#24
UltimaKilo said:
I've never taken anything from the government. I've always worked, paid for my own school or gotten loans from the bank when I needed them. There is no way I wouldn't know...
You drove on a road
You got mail
You were not mugged

You've taken something from the government.
 
#25
Dreams-Visions said:
I think this would be excellent.
Hell, lets extend it.

You know when you get onboard a plane, and the flight attendants are required by law to go through the seatbelt/oxygen mask drivel?

Lets add a few lines.

"Thank you for choosing ___ Airlines. This plane has been flying safely for 24 years thanks to Federal guidelines on airline maintenance, and federal employees conducting safety checks. Today, our pilot will be guided safely to our destination by federal flight control employees. When deplaning at ___ Airport, please enjoy the striking new architecture, paid for in full by the american taxpayer and kept safe by federal employees".
 
#26
I work the Dept of Welfare, and this isn't shocking at all. "What do you mean, welfare? I'm not on welfare, I have Medicaid!"

Makes me slap my forehead every time I hear it. :(
 
#28
jamesinclair said:
Government needs an advertising agency.

Send out letters.


"Dear Citizen, President Obama and the Federal Government would like to thank you for taking advantage of the ___ program, funded in whole by the taxpayer. These benefits will help you _____ and _____. Please remember the help given to you by the Federal Government by exercising your constitutional right to vote".
There hasn't been a presidency yet that has really understood marketing.
 

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
#29
This proves what exactly? Nobody that I know of is asking for the removal of all social programs, but there's a ton of bullshit fat out there we could cut away that wouldn't be missed one bit.
 
#30
Those student loans are irremovable even in after bankruptcy, so I find that social service as big a revenue stream as an output by the govt.

At least until an education bubble bursts.
 
#31
Ya, some people are dumb, but everyone with a mortgage gets tax credits and interest deductions, and I for one would have answered no if asked if I have used a government social program. You think about that once a year, and even then, I'm just thinking about the refund check from money that came out of my paycheck throughout the year.

I'll answer correctly now though.
 
#32
TheUnknownForce said:
Those student loans are irremovable even in after bankruptcy, so I find that social service as big a revenue stream as an output by the govt.

At least until an education bubble bursts.
they can be forgiven in the event of a disability, prolonged unemployment, or for working for the government for x amount of years.

They're pretty easy loans to get rid of if you really are in a bind.
 
#33
UltimaKilo said:
I've never taken anything from the government. I've always worked, paid for my own school or gotten loans from the bank when I needed them. There is no way I wouldn't know...
Traffic lights are engineered by city or county people.

Emergency response? School? Overall hygiene in a city? Foster children? Foster animals? Gang intervention? Courts? Water system? Bio-chemical/medical services? Your birth certificate? Your passport? Airports?
 
#37
balladofwindfishes said:
You drove on a road
You got mail
You were not mugged

You've taken something from the government.
Incorrect, I'm using what I pay for.

Drive on roads? Yup, I pay a price for it (and a steep one).

I pay for all my mail, and not with just the taxes I paid for from the money I earned.

I am not mugged every 2 seconds? No. Part of my income goes to paying local police salaries.


BeautifulMemory said:
Traffic lights are engineered by city or county people.

Emergency response? School? Overall hygiene in a city? Foster children? Foster animals? Gang intervention? Courts? Water system? Bio-chemical/medical services? Your birth certificate? Your passport? Airports?
Every-time I purchase something, I pay for that. Sales taxes.
 
#38
LQX said:
To be fair most of these programs are funded by tax papers money. We are just claiming whats rightfully ours.
But if you do not support government programs it strikes me as hypocritical to take advantage of them even if it is "your" money.
 
#39
UltimaKilo said:
Incorrect, I'm using what I pay for.

Drive on roads? Yup, I pay a price for it (and a steep one).

I pay for all my mail, and not with just the taxes I paid for from the money I earned.

I am not mugged every 2 seconds? No. Part of my income goes to paying local police salaries.
Do you have to read Mein Kampf and pay tribute to Hitler everyday? No? You've taken from the government.
 
#41
Mudkips said:
You either did not read my post, or did not understand it.
People who do not receive direct benefit from government programs receive indirect benefits. To take a popular example; Pell Grants. Let's say I don't receive Pell Grants, but you do. I benefit from having another member of society being given the opportunity to study, improve themselves, and become part of an educated, flexible, and mobile workforce. This reduces the chances that they will become chronically unemployed, will likely have a stable marriage and household, will produce a child in a financially stable family, and will have enough income to support themselves and a bit to spend on luxuries.

And so it goes for many government programs. They have a multiplicative effect that, even if they don't directly benefit many people, they do indirectly benefit most people.

I read your post, understood it, and saw you to be shortsighted and called you out on it.
 
#42
Mudkips said:
No, it's only the parasites who have been "conned" into thinking they're not part of the problem. The rest of society isn't wrong when they complain they're paying for (and not getting) government aid because they're not getting government aid.
Thanks for clearing that up, Andrew Ryan.
 
#43
brucewaynegretzky said:
I don't know if student loans should count.... For one when I started I got them through a private vendor. Second, they're making money off me.
I don't know how federal student loans work, but if they charge interest (no matter how small), it shouldn't count.
 
#45
UltimaKilo said:
I don't know how federal student loans work, but if they charge interest (no matter how small), it shouldn't count.
If they are charging interest way below market rates, below rates that normal consumers would not be able to access, and offer these loans to consumers which otherwise would not have access to these loans, why is it not a service?
 
#47
FlightOfHeaven said:
If they are charging interest way below market rates, below rates that normal consumers would not be able to access, and offer these loans to consumers which otherwise would not have access to these loans, why is it not a service?
It is a service, but there's no handout. I would say that they're making it more accessible, but that has been shown to not be entirely true. Federally subsidized loans have essentially created the huge increases we've seen in tuition throughout the nation. It's not really possible to say that I wouldn't be able to get better loans if the gov't wasn't involved. They've defined the market.
 
#48
UltimaKilo said:
I don't know how federal student loans work, but if they charge interest (no matter how small), it shouldn't count.
If they charge less than the prevailing private loan interest rate, that's a handout.
If they are giving loans to people who would otherwise not quality, that's a handout.
If they are willing to defer repayment based on income or job sector, that's a handout.
 
#50
FlightOfHeaven said:
People who do not receive direct benefit from government programs receive indirect benefits. To take a popular example; Pell Grants. Let's say I don't receive Pell Grants, but you do. I benefit from having another member of society being given the opportunity to study, improve themselves, and become part of an educated, flexible, and mobile workforce. This reduces the chances that they will become chronically unemployed, will likely have a stable marriage and household, will produce a child in a financially stable family, and will have enough income to support themselves and a bit to spend on luxuries.

And so it goes for many government programs. They have a multiplicative effect that, even if they don't directly benefit many people, they do indirectly benefit most people.

I read your post, understood it, and saw you to be shortsighted and called you out on it.
I don't really agree with your analogy. I donate a ton of money to charities when I can. My favorite being St. Jude's Hospital and Wounded Warriors. I don't benefit from giving to these charities, those who use their services do.

They don't have an evaluation of every student that receives one, they're handed out like candy. I remember going into the financial aide office when I really needed it and they offered me the money (and to others) without much question. I was so shocked and disgusted. Next day I went to Bank of America and they hooked it up. My credit rating has greatly benefitted from that move and I don't regret it.

I'm all for Federal Student Loans though!
 
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