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Halo 5 Campaign Info Post - Building an Epic Campaign

Vire

Vire

Member
It all makes sense now. Sprinkles got really mad cuz he couldn't beat Legendary so he told 343 to cancel split screen and matchmaking so that they could put all their resources into AI that would carry his ass.
 
G

GoxRx

Member
This looks very fun. I was really mad when 343I announced that there was not split screen but I'm hyped again.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
jem0208 said:
How exactly is finding random people on the Internet different to finding random people through matchmaking?
Click to expand...

Way different. You have a filter to control who gets added based on what gear they have and their grimoire score and other factors. Also striking up convos in orbit and kicking people out who start flinging turds right away.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Stinkles said:
We're not "taking it away" - we made a decision early in dev to focus on other features, following long conversations about the pros and cons of MM co-op. In the end it was decided that effort and time were better spent on other features you will use more.

It would be a nice to have but ultimately it's a resource balancing issue and there are more important features.

Although the next three pages are going to be about how vital it is.

Our AI players behave like "real" players, and are likely to be cleverer and more helpful than a lot of random "real" players. I think it will make more sense when you see how the AI works in practice.

Not dismissing the feature at all, just explaining the reasoning. We're not removing the option, it was never implemented to begin with.
Click to expand...

While I'll miss it, to some extent I suppose, I trust 343 to have made the best decision given a finite amount of development resources. Thanks for the insight.
 
W

Wizman23

Banned
superNESjoe said:
No offense, but I feel like that shouldn't be your decision to make. Some people only want to play with real people, and prefer filling extra spots with strangers. I'd rather take the gamble on a stranger in Left 4 Dead than keep the bot.

Taking away choices from the player isn't always best. You don't know what's most important to everyone, and that's (and I truly mean no offense) how a decision like no split screen happens to begin with, by taking away options because you have an idea of how everyone should experience the game instead of building it to be experienced however the player chooses.
Click to expand...

No raid matchmaking in Destiny says hi. 343 made the right choice here.
 
J

jem0208

Member
wesleyshark said:
Way different. You have a filter to control who gets added based on what gear they have and their grimoire score and other factors. Also striking up convos in orbit and kicking people out who start flinging turds right away.
Click to expand...
The exact same thing could be done with matchmaking.

Except you wouldn't have to faff about on external websites.
 
M

MightyHedgehog

Member
Why does 343 hate Firefight? It's only one of the best, most replayable co-op arcade-like experiences ever made. At least, offer it as post-release DLC, people.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
Reach co-op campaign matchmaking peaked

peaked

at around 200 players

I don't think anyone will use that feature. i did a couple times and each time that it wasn't a laggy mess, somebody was plasma stunning my vehicles.

i'll take the bots.
 
M

Madness

Member
It's not vital, especially because you say AI is much improved, but cutting split screen for campaign and saying there is dedicated servers, but not allowing any sort of matchmaking is like one step forward, two steps back. Sometimes you just want to pair up with randoms to finish a level. We're not 10 year old kids. Halo is a 15 year old franchise whose fanbase is well into their 20's, 30's, and 40's. Let us decide if we want to play with ammo stealers and warthog crashers and diet racists.
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
Stinkles said:
Wat? If you can find one post where I dismissed split screen as some trivial thing, then have at it. We have never diminished or dismissed how important that is to folks.
Click to expand...

Well, I did say "in which case." I haven't read any of your posts on the matter but I've encountered other posters on GAF and elsewhere making light of the importance to split screen.

Glad to be wrong about where you stand on the matter.
 
W

Wizman23

Banned
Vire said:
Cause Bungie is infallible when it came to decisions regarding Destiny. I needed a laugh.
Click to expand...

Oh not all! However as someone who spent tons of time in Destiny raids I sure as shit would not want to rely on matchmaking for them. One Douchebag can easily fuck up 5 people's fun. Anyhow enough on Destiny. Can't wait till October 27th. Halo 5 and first Cavs game. What a day
 
J

jem0208

Member
Madness said:
It's not vital, especially because you say AI is much improved, but cutting split screen for campaign and saying there is dedicated servers, but not allowing any sort of matchmaking is like one step forward, two steps back. Sometimes you just want to pair up with randoms to finish a level. We're not 10 year old kids. Halo is a 15 year old franchise whose fanbase is well into their 20's, 30's, and 40's. Let us decide if we want to play with ammo stealers and warthog crashers and diet racists.
Click to expand...
Honestly the effort which could be put into making matchmaking work in campaign would be far better spent on improving matchmaking for multiplayer.

Sure it'd be nice to have, but it's not a big loss.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
Bungie is far from infallible, but not forcing matchmaking onto Raids is heavenly.

Anyway.

We need more Halo gifs from those videos!
 
Vire

Vire

Member
Wizman23 said:
Oh not all! However as someone who spent tons of time in Destiny raids I sure as shit would not want to rely on matchmaking for them. One Douchebag can easily fuck up 5 people's fun. Anyhow enough on Destiny. Can't wait till October 27th. Halo 5 and first Cavs game. What a day
Click to expand...
There are a ton of things they could do to ensure that is a quality experience, mainly restrictions on the matchmaking.

1. The player must have a microphone connected
2. The player must have already completed the Raid at least one time through LFG means (ensures they know the fight)
3. The player must have 170 attack weapons
4. Etc.

Things like that would go a long way to make sure that you had good teammates matched up for a Raid.
 
C

Chezzymann

Member
Only negative thing about this is after watching the videos I remembered that in order to play co op I'd need multiple Xbox ones. And I won't be able to play halo with any of my friends since they don't have the console. Kinda sucks. I'd honestly be fine with downgraded graphics and 30fps if that's what it takes to have splitscreen. Because not having it is far worse for people like me.

I'll probably get over it since the game play looks great and just play with people on GAF though
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
Vire said:
There are a ton of things they could do to ensure that is a quality experience, mainly restrictions on the matchmaking.

1. The player must have a microphone connected
2. The player must have already completed the Raid at least one time through LFG means (ensures they know the fight)
3. The player must have 170 attack weapons
4. Etc.

Things like that would go a long way to make sure that you had good teammates matched up for a Raid.
Click to expand...

That'd be a start for sure, but there's still griefers and buffoons with good gear. Level 32 Heroic strikes are a good example of getting paired with people at max level with max gear who are still terrible.

SenjutsuSage said:
Said it before, will say it again, 343i is the best thing to happen to Halo. :)
Click to expand...

Halo 4 was a needed stepping stone to get where we are now. It's been a fun journey thus far for sure.
 
B

Bits N Pieces

Member
Stinkles said:
We're not "taking it away" - we made a decision early in dev to focus on other features, following long conversations about the pros and cons of MM co-op. In the end it was decided that effort and time were better spent on other features you will use more.

It would be a nice to have but ultimately it's a resource balancing issue and there are more important features.

Although the next three pages are going to be about how vital it is.

Our AI players behave like "real" players, and are likely to be cleverer and more helpful than a lot of random "real" players. I think it will make more sense when you see how the AI works in practice.

Not dismissing the feature at all, just explaining the reasoning. We're not removing the option, it was never implemented to begin with.
Click to expand...

Fair enough if it was a choice made earky on, just sucks for folks like me that don't get much game time and will probably hardly ever get to play through the game with some real folk and experience all the cool shit the game is going to offer. 30 seconds of fun and all that.

Teamnotimeandnofriends :(
 
S

singhr1

Member
Zoba said:
Reach co-op campaign matchmaking peaked

peaked

at around 200 players

I don't think anyone will use that feature. i did a couple times and each time that it wasn't a laggy mess, somebody was plasma stunning my vehicles.

i'll take the bots.
Click to expand...

Truth.

Of course the dedicated servers in Halo 5 would alleviate the lag. But, the one time you get the jerk who team-kills, steals your weapon, doesn't follow the team, etc. is going to make that experience sour and make you less willing to try it again. You see it so often in MCC matchmaking, especially betrayals for the Sniper/Rockets. This is not to say, however, that it can't work. Spartan Ops MM was rarely a total disaster; usually the team was fine but you would get the occasional shit. Even then, however, population numbers were <1000-1500 for the playlist at its peak. Spartan Ops had no alternative, however. You really couldn't do Legendary Solo (you could if you hated yourself)... I'd almost rather had done Spartan Ops Heroic/Legendary with this system over randoms.

Reach Campaign MM also had the issue that the mission you played on was voted for so you may have never got the mission you wanted.

Gears of War had campaign MM that was level specific, i.e. you choose the mission before you choose if was a public or private match. This worked to an extent but often you would never find a match for the mission you wanted.
 
Y

Yoday

Member
That looked fantastic. I am really digging the new focus on larger and more vertical play spaces. I am really looking forward to the Republic Commando style of squad AI. I don't know why that isn't used in more games. If Halo 5 nails it I wouldn't doubt it if we start to see it more and more. I'll be interested to see the dynamic resolution in action. If it works well and isn't super jarring then it could be a really great way of solving the resolution "problem" on XB1 while also being a way to ensure rock solid performance in more games.
 
Solidsoul

Solidsoul

Banned
The footage looks absolutely phenomenal. It seems to be much more in line with what a lot of people want. I'm just overjoyed, because I personally loved Halo 4 and this looks like a step up yet.

You have to give 343 some credit for putting so much emphasis on 60 frames across the board and not compromising the vision they have. You can tell there were some stressful conversations about what needed to be implemented and what wasn't worth sacrificing performance for. Such as dynamic resolution, no split screen and no campaign matchmaking. People seem to think axing these things is some sort of diabolical corporate scheme, but it's more about prioritizing what can be done with the time, money and talent that is given to create the best potential product.

The team seems to be incredibly focused on doing more of what worked, and none of what didn't.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
Solidsoul said:
The footage looks absolutely phenomenal. It seems to be much more in line with what a lot of people want. I'm just overjoyed, because I personally loved Halo 4 and this looks like a step up yet.

You have to give 343 some credit for putting so much emphasis on 60 frames across the board and not compromising the vision they have. You can tell there were some stressful conversations about what needed to be implemented and what wasn't worth sacrificing performance for. Such as dynamic resolution, no split screen and no campaign matchmaking. People seem to think axing these things is some sort of diabolical corporate scheme, but it's more about prioritizing what can be done with the time, money and talent that is given to create the best potential product.

The team seems to be incredibly focused on doing more of what worked, and none of what didn't.
Click to expand...

I think we're in for something special.
 
M

Madness

Member
Maybe I haven't played enough next gen games, but have many made use of this dynamic resolution option? I don't mean like 1360x1080p for the whole game, but actually going from 1920x1080 to like 1280x720 to 1600x900 to that 800x720 resolution Jumper always mentioned to maintain 60fps at all parts. Is it jarring? I would think they'd do it in ways that it wouldn't even be noticeable except for people who paused to pixel peep or guys like digital foundry.
 
O

OEM

Member
wesleyshark said:
Should be some really good deals as we get head through October.
Click to expand...

image.php
 
J

JeffZero

Purple Drazi
wesleyshark said:
Should be some really good deals as we get head through October.
Click to expand...

Haha, yeah. I'm going to take a close look for sure, budget willing. It's been an unusually rough year, so we'll see.

If I can't swing for it this year, though, well, I guess the game isn't going anywhere. Either way I'm pretty much sold on getting an X1 eventually.

EDIT:

image.php
 
Jessie.Bristol

Jessie.Bristol

Member
Looking at the B-Roll Sanghelios footage from Xbox Wire, it definitely seems to stay above a 900p-like resolution (most likely drops from native 1080p to 1080pr). A lot of the footage seemed to be native 1080p, but that is just from eye-balling it. I am not a pixel counter.
 
S

superNESjoe

Member
Stinkles said:
We're not "taking it away" - we made a decision early in dev to focus on other features, following long conversations about the pros and cons of MM co-op. In the end it was decided that effort and time were better spent on other features you will use more.

It would be a nice to have but ultimately it's a resource balancing issue and there are more important features.

Although the next three pages are going to be about how vital it is.

Our AI players behave like "real" players, and are likely to be cleverer and more helpful than a lot of random "real" players. I think it will make more sense when you see how the AI works in practice.

Not dismissing the feature at all, just explaining the reasoning. We're not removing the option, it was never implemented to begin with.
Click to expand...

This is a good answer, but I stand by my statement that taking choice away from the player is not always the best idea. I can see it in Destiny raids, but I don't like this option not being there in a traditional coop game.

You might not be "taking away content" because it wasn't there, but it is a design choice that takes decisions away.
 
D

dEvAnGeL

Member
black friday cant get here soon enough, i hope that by that time there will be a bundle with halo 5 and tomb raider, im getting the console just for those 2 games
 
F

Fata1moose

Banned
Madness said:
Maybe I haven't played enough next gen games, but have many made use of this dynamic resolution option? I don't mean like 1360x1080p for the whole game, but actually going from 1920x1080 to like 1280x720 to 1600x900 to that 800x720 resolution Jumper always mentioned to maintain 60fps at all parts. Is it jarring? I would think they'd do it in ways that it wouldn't even be noticeable except for people who paused to pixel peep or guys like digital foundry.
Click to expand...

Witcher 3 on XBone uses it, I can't think of another.
 
S

singhr1

Member
Madness said:
Maybe I haven't played enough next gen games, but have many made use of this dynamic resolution option? I don't mean like 1360x1080p for the whole game, but actually going from 1920x1080 to like 1280x720 to 1600x900 to that 800x720 resolution Jumper always mentioned to maintain 60fps at all parts. Is it jarring? I would think they'd do it in ways that it wouldn't even be noticeable except for people who paused to pixel peep or guys like digital foundry.
Click to expand...

Advanced Warfare and supposedly Witcher 3 come to mind. Not sure about anything else.

Advanced Warfare was minimum 1360x1080, maximum full 1080p (but only at "subdued moments") Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...of-duty-advanced-warfare-performance-analysis

Edit: So does Wolfenstein: The New Order, for both consoles. Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-wolfenstein-the-new-order-face-off
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Madness said:
Maybe I haven't played enough next gen games, but have many made use of this dynamic resolution option?
Click to expand...
I remember this being a feature of idTech 5, so I'd imagine its used in the latest Wolfenstein games, New Order and Old Blood in order to maintain 60fps.
 
Jessie.Bristol

Jessie.Bristol

Member
Madness said:
Maybe I haven't played enough next gen games, but have many made use of this dynamic resolution option? I don't mean like 1360x1080p for the whole game, but actually going from 1920x1080 to like 1280x720 to 1600x900 to that 800x720 resolution Jumper always mentioned to maintain 60fps at all parts. Is it jarring? I would think they'd do it in ways that it wouldn't even be noticeable except for people who paused to pixel peep or guys like digital foundry.
Click to expand...

Wolfenstein uses it on Xbox One and PlayStation 4 to maintain a solid 60fps. But the odd thing with that game is it drops resolution in the most odd places. Usually when nothing is happening, yet in hectic firefights it maintains native 1080p on both Xbox One and PlayStation 4.
 
C

Chezzymann

Member
Madness said:
Maybe I haven't played enough next gen games, but have many made use of this dynamic resolution option? I don't mean like 1360x1080p for the whole game, but actually going from 1920x1080 to like 1280x720 to 1600x900 to that 800x720 resolution Jumper always mentioned to maintain 60fps at all parts. Is it jarring? I would think they'd do it in ways that it wouldn't even be noticeable except for people who paused to pixel peep or guys like digital foundry.
Click to expand...

Killzone Mercenaries did it. Basically the resolution changes when you're doing certain things, like when you're sprinting it will drop down a bit since you won't notice it while everything is moving fast
 
Hawk269

Hawk269

Member
Stinkles said:
Inception
Click to expand...

Frankie-

Are you able to reveal what the resolution drop is going to be when the game deems it necessary? From reading what has been released, the majority of the game is 1080p, but just curious when you guys do need to drop, what are you dropping too?

Thanks!
 
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