SolarMystic
Member
Hopefully Microsoft and 343i takes the series in the current direction it is going. Halo 5 was excellent. Keep going from there and put split-screen back in and we're good.
ODST 2 will right the ship.
I want to float a thought, but I want to preface that I'm a big fan of 343's work, including 4, and I think Halo 5 in many ways is the best of the series so far.
But I was just wondering, if (comparatively) low sales might have a knock on effect on budget for Halo 6, which might then lead to a much smaller-scale and intimate instalment of the franchise. Main line Halo is following a predictable trend of bigger, more epic scale with each new game in an attempt to outdo themselves. But I'm wondering, broadly speaking, whether being forced to rein this in might actually be beneficial for the campaign and the franchise.
I think lack of Firefight and Campaign Scoring were big losses to H4 and H5 and they need to return. What 343 have brought in place of these (basically Spartan Ops for non-MP folks) is not good enough.
Campaign Scoring was tremendous fun, and I miss Firefight - and the bizarre thing is Prometheans are perfectly suited to Firefight IMO!
343 just doesn't understand what makes halo halo. A team consisting of people that used to make cod and killzone isn't gonna suddenly make halo like Bungie, and MP being tailored to Pro Gamers has led to extremely boring and stale maps with no standout features.
MS' best bet is to buy Bungie back for like 5 billion bucks or put Halo aside. 343 is clearly clueless as to how to make a proper halo game.
Are they gonna fix the aiming anytime soon? acceleration is awful in halo.
343 just doesn't understand what makes halo halo. A team consisting of people that used to make cod and killzone isn't gonna suddenly make halo like Bungie, and MP being tailored to Pro Gamers has led to extremely boring and stale maps with no standout features.
MS' best bet is to buy Bungie back for like 5 billion bucks or put Halo aside. 343 is clearly clueless as to how to make a proper halo game.
343 just doesn't understand what makes halo halo. A team consisting of people that used to make cod and killzone isn't gonna suddenly make halo like Bungie, and MP being tailored to Pro Gamers has led to extremely boring and stale maps with no standout features.
MS' best bet is to buy Bungie back for like 5 billion bucks or put Halo aside. 343 is clearly clueless as to how to make a proper halo game.
..Gaf just doesn't understand what makes halo halo. A forum consisting of people that used to play cod and killzone isn't gonna suddenly like halo from 343, and MP being tailored to controller skill has led to extremely intense and evolving maps with no standout way to attain great k/d ratios with limited gamer skill.
MS' best bet is to get high for like 5 billion bucks and put Halo warzone on loop in studio to play. Gaf is clearly clueless as to how to enjoy video gaming.
I get that there's maps "coming" but I feel like 343 and Bungie have shot themselves in the foot with how maps have been handled recently.
In Reach, the Invasion mode required its own maps, which meant you now had 3 pools of maps (Arena style, BTB style, Invasion). It made Invasion get stale quickly with it's 2 or 3 maps, and it felt unfulfilling at launch when compared to H2-H3.
In H5, we have Warzone, Breakout, Arena, and soon to be BTB. That's 4 pools of maps that are all drastically different, with little overlap. I know they've tweaked it recently, but Arena Slayer was 5 maps on repeat, Warzone is 3, and the tedium sets in fast.
Compare it to almost any CoD, where almost all maps are used for all modes (exceptions being tiny ones). It makes it feel so much more varied with there's 10-12 maps in a playlist. When I play for an hour I shouldn't play multiple maps multiple times unless we voted for that- which is gone anyways.
It's cool that 343 wanted new modes- Warzone and Breakout are nifty. But maybe Breakout should've been saved a for an "expansion" type deal or something. Idk.
Alright, worked on a part 2 beyond the visuals and moved over to actual map design. Keep in mind this is just my personal opinion and I understand not everyone agrees.
A lot of the issues i am going to bring forth are probably a result of having sprint, clamber in the game. And a lot of the issues can be gotten rid of with taking out clamber, sprint or both.
In the group of pictures we will go over the following ideas that will be covered
Sight lines- these are visble paths that help you keep track of enemies across map, or some where on the map. Also provides lines in which you shoot the opposing team and....
Choke points- these are points that are more or less forced or need to be used in situations
Levels- the basic idea of levels, how many layers is around and how it affects movement and shots
Rush points- I would like to consider rush points as the idea of going around a wall or area to finish a kill or gain entry to a choke point
Cover - cover is the basic idea of getting into a position that makes you had to kill
Clutter- Clutter is an idea when you basically have too many things on the map, in the way or just adding visual points to a map that make it harder to see or move. There is a fine line between Cover, Choke points, Rush points, and clutter. What can make or break it will be covered.
First up let's show some good examples of clutter that many people see mentioned for Halo 5
Pic 1- too many obstacles and varying levels to block movement or sight lines
Pic 2 - this one follows the sight line issues a eve when you do get shots with the sight lines provided you cant do rush points, because going around to finish off kills is blocked by big barries, then layers are a bit more forced and clamber is engaged
Pic 3- Just a lot of clutter and kills sight lines
Pic 4- Just a great example of clutter that breaks most everything, breaks sight lines, breaks rush points etc
Pic 5- Again, the clutter and walls just breaks sight points and forces you must chase people or find them in close range to kill them.
From the halo 3 pics provdied you can see that the clutter and cover provided makes it easy to engage and push in for a kill or push in to your death. In various pictures you can also see how it's easy to spot people in many sight points to go for shots with snipe such as narrows, or to push in for better positions to create a tactical advantage since you were spotting them on the good sight points before they realized where you were.
next up
Rush Points-
Pic 1 - in pic one if I am shooting a guy coming around the tube like structure, I can't easily go around and flank him in the rush point. i either need to rush him straight on, or forget about it. I can try to go around and rush him but he will either be gone or he will push the opposite side. either way, a very hard rush point. Halo 5 has these issues in spades.
Pic 2- In this pic you can see where rush points and levels play a big roll in making the game more hard. I can't easily run around and flush out a good Rush point here. The guy has too many options to run back and we won't be hitting any choke points to kill one another.
Pic 3- Same as above
Pic 4- Just a lot of big walled areas and clutter making kills difficult , needing to push in close
Pic 5- Rush point issues
Pic 6- this is an interesting one, if I am on bridge and I light the guy up across map, I simply can't finish him. I may be able to time some nice jumps to the rocket launcher spawn area but that only helps if he actually goes there. Getting to the rush point and sight line kills here is really difficult. Levels also plays an issue here as well.
More sight line, rush ponits, choke point issues
Pic 1- This is a levels issue, while the halo 3 pic has big walls, the choke points are still more chokeable. In the halo 5 shot the levels and random walls just hurts the basic idea of gameplay.
Pic 2- These big walls that I have been referring to cuts way down on sight lines and makes it near impossible to tell where other players are.
Pic 3- Same as above...
Pic 4- Same as above
Pic 5- Look at how huge these walls are compare to my character on the left- it''s no wonder I need sprint to get around these huge walls, Would take me quite a while to get any sight lines or visibility of people without sprint and this is why we need sprint out, so we can stop with these badly designed maps.
Pic 6- this is a bit of the issues I find when I say a map is stretched out, bad sight lines, bad choke points , this map has most of it all
Even if I get some nice shots on a person, they have easy access to walls, and I have no rush points, no choke points and I have to cover a ton of distance and climbing to try it. With a good team this map is more manageble but it's more work than it's worth.
Distance issues again
Pic 1- not only is there distance issues, it's also a lot of bad sight lines, I honestly would have a hard time finishing anyone off under me, I'd have to chase them or know they are there and even then with then sprinting around everywhere who knows which turn they actually took. Also, even across map on the SAME level provides a lot of sight line issues.
Pic 2- I have to jump up to be shot at, which isn't a huge problem, but there is no where to shoot from without standing up in broad day light, other wise I can't see anything anyways, this is almost 1/8th of the map in this overall area. And I have no sight lines except up high.
Pic 3- Just more big walls and issues
Conclusion- I chose Halo 3 because I simply believe it has the best maps in the series (my personal opinion yes)
If halo 3 has a big wall, it's part of a specific part of the map like you find in high ground, rocket, sniper area and it provides a decent choke point. A lot of the maps in halo 3 are on a 1 layer flat level, with 2 levels provided in sections of the map. They provide good sight lines , easy to do rush points and they aren't cluttered.
Even when a map has 3 main levels such as construct they are created in such a way that you can still see and flank and get out of situations in unique ways.
maps like standoff provide rocks that give you the choice of pushing out to finish a kill or lose your battle and be killed. Other than that, they don't clutter things up that create issues in getting into your battles.
So, basically I feel clamber and sprint are some of the big issues for the things I have presented, map design is also bad in it self even if sprint wasn't in the game.
Sight lines really are a big failure in the game, can't see where people are, can't get decent shots at each other and make choices to push out to finish a kill etc
*Fathom doesn't show nearly as many of these issues, so I left it out of the comparison.
Making a wall of text doesn't mean your points are actually any good...and they aren't
Seriously the complaints you have about halo 5 seem to boil down to you aren't good at halo 5
So get gud
it was a good writeup nipper--the h5 maps are a huge problem
Making a wall of text doesn't mean your points are actually any good...and they aren't
Seriously the complaints you have about halo 5 seem to boil down to you aren't good at halo 5
So get gud
I list points for each photo, maybe you can tell me where they are wrong instead of ignoring what I said. You ignored what i said cause you didn't want to take the time to read it and you feel your idea is already right, and you are right to have your own idea but you should understan what I am saying and talk about what i am saying other than just saying my points aren't good. The points are what a lot of halo fans don't like about the maps, if you enjoy the maps that is fine. Then you won't agree with what I don't like.
That's a bit harsh. He just seems to have a more specific idea of how Halo should play than most. There's also some truth to his previous complaints about it being difficult to distinguish different parts of maps, I only ever notice it when I spawn in SWAT but it's a bit annoying.
That we're even complaining about this kind of stuff is really a testament to how solid the core gameplay is though, just needs more content!
its not that i disagree with your points, idk if i do.
i just...like halo 5 maps? i like halo 5?
idk. the game plays beautifully for me
It's fine, I just wish if he didn't agree that he would pull a photo out and say I don't feel this part is cluttered because.... Or I feel the big walled areas here are ok because.... It's hard to have actual discussion if people just say your wrong! I'm willing to talk with anyone who is willing to talk though
The Halo ship does not need turning around.
Some things I would like:
Play as John 117 completely
Get rid of those 30 second levels
Kick the story in high gear
A campaign length that is longer