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[Sean]

As for his working experience on MGS4, what do we know which has been shared, is that his input on the game involved helping the staff working on the game understand the implementation of shooting and cover mechanics which would be more logical and intuitive to players familiar with such games. MGS4 uses much more shooting action than any previous MGS game, and it was important to get right. The interface and the controls, as well as how the game delivered feedback to the player, were all aspects where he helped tune.

Since Halo is also a series which is heavily based on shooting action, and feeling "right" is a major component of Halo's gameplay design while at Bungie, I think it makes perfect sense that they would have been interested to have someone like Ryan Payton on board.

I don't want to sound mean, but Payton basically made MGS4's controls less shitty. That was never an area where Halo was lacking - Bungie nailed it with Halo 1 and just about every modern FPS on consoles since then uses that control scheme.

Microsoft certainly did not need to hire a guy to make Halo "feel right", that is the one aspect of Halo 4 that I expect to remain pretty much identical to past games.

 

[Takamura-San]

The saddest thing about posts like these is that you actually think that your opinion is factual. It must take a massive ego to make a post like that.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Xenon]

he can also make popcorn flicks (inception)

Yeah but he fooled people into thinking it wasn't.




Seem like this will be better for him. From what I read in this thread it's better for me as well.

 

[Gui_PT]

http://cdn.faniq.com/images/blog/d4e0290e0410e5da4a77fac07e7887c1.gif

What?
Try watching it while you're eating some popcorn. Good movie.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Payton stopped Kojima from killing Snake too!

I'm pretty sure that a lot of the KojiPro staff were against it. They thought Kojima's original ending was too depressing.

 

[element]

So wait, this guy went from Podcast host, to Assistant Producer to Creative Director?

I hope bluemax wasn't banned for that comment. Could have used more tact though.

 

[StuBurns]

]I decided to check out the Weekend Confirmed Payton was on because I seemed to remember him talking about too heavy reliance on combat in high profile games, and he does indeed complain about it, blaming execs scared to green light games that don't have lots of combat for the issue specifically.

It certainly doesn't say if he specifically wanted to do that personally with Halo of course, but it's interesting to listen to. It's episode 44 if anyone fancies it.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Best of luck. He seems like a cool guy.

 

[godhandiscen]

I suppose it depends what he wanted to change, the gameplay or the structure. So long as the core Halo gameplay is intact, Halo can be rebuilt to be something other than a mission to mission shooter (ODST was sort of a proof of concept).

I remember in the Halo 4 panel, Frankie mentioned that they had built out a number of ideas in iteration that were great, but were ultimately thrown out because "they weren't Halo". He was making a point to emphasize how the team recognized what Halo was at its core and reassuring fans that they were going to preserve it. I don't know if these are dots that don't necessarily warrant connecting, but that's the first thing I thought of after reading the article. Put together, it sounds like Payton wanted to make substantial changes to the game that the rest of the team resisted, and so he left because he didn't feel like he could be passionate about a project in which he felt so limited.

If that's the case, his departure will be better for him, and Halo. No one should work on something they don't love if they have the choice, and Halo shouldn't be shepherded by someone who doesn't love what it is.

I was going to bring this up to the discussion, but good to know it was mentioned already. As a fan for 10 years of the franchise, you just can tell what is Halo and what isn't. I wish him the best, but I like the fact that 343i recognizes there is some essence to Halo and that it needs to be preserved.

 

[TheOddOne]

]I decided to check out the Weekend Confirmed Payton was on because I seemed to remember him talking about too heavy reliance on combat in high profile games, and he does indeed complain about it, blaming execs scared to green light games that don't have lots of combat for the issue specifically.

It certainly doesn't say if he specifically wanted to do that personally with Halo of course, but it's interesting to listen to. It's episode 44 if anyone fancies it.

Its not really that weird that executives will not greenlight an 20 million dollar project that doesn't realy heavy on combat. Most high profile games, in every genre, has combat as a basic element.

In the indie space though these type of games are possible. People will also try something new for a lower price point.

 

[Chittagong]

Not saying it is the case here as I do not know anything of his true contributions, but just generally I have come across people in my career who have an amazing CV with superb positions in top name companies, yet they have not deonstrably contributed anything substantial they can claim undeniably theirs to explain their success - after a first lucky strike they are able to go from top gig to top gig on the strength of their CV, just need to leave before this is exposed. It's a virtuous/vicious cycle.

This is why all investors and employers in a creative industry need to be relentless when validating qualifications.

 

[StuBurns]

Its not really that weird that executives will not greenlight an 20 million dollar project that doesn't realy heavy on combat. Most high profile games, in every genre, has combat as a basic element.

In the indie space though these type of games are possible. People will also try something new for a lower price point.

Quite, I'm not saying I agree with him at all.

 

[TheOddOne]

Quite, I'm not saying I agree with him at all.

Wasn't really directed at you, just wanted to chime in a bit

 

[Neuromancer]

I hope bluemax wasn't banned for that comment.

Why would you hope that?

 

[Chittagong]

Also, this pretty much confirms the next three Halos are risk averse, true to the formula games not going too far from home.

Which is just fine to me because all I ever wanted was someone competent to fix Halo's shit online infrastructure, and if there is one thing Microsoft is great in is console online infrastructure.

 

[childplease]

Does this mean Halo 4 wont have 9 hours of cutscenes and 5 hours of gameplay ?

 

[Satchel]

I'm not sure how much you can change Halo before it's no longer Halo.

I actually don't understand why Halo cops so much shit for 'barely changing' despite ALL major franchises being the same.

I mean honestly, the following list of games:

Gears of War
God of War
Uncharted
Resistance
Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime
Gran Turismo
Forza
Assassin's Creed
Call of Duty

I mean, let's be balls out completely honest here. Outside of a few MINOR tweaks here and there, ALL of these games have barely changed between iterations. Halo shouldn't be the only one copping the shit for remaining unchanged.

In fact, of all the above games and including Halo, Halo has arguab;y changed the most between iterations, especially in the area of mutliplayer, but even in single player.

Play Halo CE and play Halo Reach and still tell me the franchise has barely changed with a straight face.

My ONLY major fear for Halo 4? The Flood. It's a given they'll be back those fucks. I mean, since the new trilogy will focus on the forerunners (SO awesome), given the it's the flood that ended the forerunners, it's a cert the flood will be involved.

My only hope, is that they'll be FAR less draining than in the past.

I think something that would be fuck awesome, would be Master Chief navigating through Forerunner structures and the like and discovering new tech/weapons?

Maybe adding that tech to his armour and weapons? Kind of like abilities in Reach, but more related to the story rather than just 'being there'. So sprint for example, is a piece of tech he finds within a Forerunner structure that he hadds to his Mjolnir armour and stays with him permanently rather than being swapped out.

Or maybe he finds tech, that adds to the weapons and they can be upgraded too? Better scope? More power? Secondary fire functions? All these could really add to Halo while not drastically changing how it actually changing how it feels and plays.

Then maybe they could add a dash of RPG, by allowing the abilitiy to upgrade his abilities? Maybe? All while still playing and FEELING like a Halo game.

 

[rar]

I'm pretty sure Halo is a console competitive arena fps.

sure but it's a terrible one that takes the genre 1000 steps back

 

[PetriP-TNT]

Best of luck to Ryan, he seems like a reasonable fellow.

 

[StuBurns]

Wasn't really directed at you, just wanted to chime in a bit

He also says in that podcast that while games aren't 'hollywood quality' yet, they're getting close, he says this in conjunction with Heavy Rain. To me, he's wrong, it's not even close yet, if you squint your hardest, standing on the coast, on a very clear crisp morning, you might get a sight of that parity in the distance. We could seriously be talking twenty years, if not a lot more.

At this point the idea of major publishers backing Heavy Rain like games is a nice novelty, but the kind of damage that could do to an existing IP is substantial I imagine.

It's interesting, and somewhat sad, that when a movie director goes sniffing around the games industry, the publishers can't beat their door down quick enough to throw cash at them. Halo Chronicles and LMNO might have both fell thru, but they were the kinds of creatively liberating deals industry vets practically never get. It'll be interesting to see if inSANE ever ships, and if it does, what precedent that may set.

 

[Fjordson]

I actually don't understand why Halo cops so much shit for 'barely changing' despite ALL major franchises being the same.

Popular franchises always catch the most heat. It's just the way of things.

sure but it's a terrible one that takes the genre 1000 steps back

:lol

 

[Lingitiz]

Microsoft official statement (from Giant Bomb)

343 Industries has assembled an all-star cast of talent working on Halo 4 under the design leadership of Studio and Halo 4 Creative Director, Josh Holmes. We're excited to tell the next story in the Halo universe with Halo 4 as the first game in the Reclaimer Trilogy. Ryan Payton, who left earlier this summer, served as Narrative Designer on Halo 4 for 15 months. Armando Troisi was hired as the Halo 4 Narrative Director in March, having formerly served as the Lead Cinematic Designer on Mass Effect 2. Ryan has been a great friend and colleague during his tenure at 343 Industries and we appreciate his contributions to the team. We wish Ryan the best in his new game development venture.

Good to see that Troisi was brought on.

 

[StuBurns]

Were the Def Jam games last gen good?

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Microsoft official statement (from Giant Bomb)
Good to see that Troisi was brought on.

How much is the narrative going to change in 12 months?
<3 really deep and good narrative, with the universe not confined to the terminals.

Payton leaving/not working out at 343 has really bummed me out, out of all the hires, he was one of the those I was really excited about.

Were the Def Jam games last gen good?

I really enjoyed Vendetta, the first game on PS2/Xbox/GC. Hold it up pretty highly actually.

 

[Lingitiz]

How much is the narrative going to change in 12 months?
<3 really deep and good narrative, with the universe not confined to the terminals.

Payton leaving/not working out at 343 has really bummed me out, out of all the hires, he was one of the those I was really excited about.

I really enjoyed Vendetta, the first game on PS2/Xbox/GC. Hold it up pretty highly actually.

Well he was brought on in March so he still has a pretty good chance to get some solid input into the game. I agree on Payton though, he was one of the bigger pickups for 343 for me because I really liked what he brought to MGS4. Despite this I wouldn't be too worried about Halo 4.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Ryan Payton, who left earlier this summer, served as Narrative Designer on Halo 4 for 15 months.

Seems his role wasn't what we thought it was.

Regardless, best of luck to him. Good to have some clarity on his role on the project and the timing of it all.

 

[Zeal]

After HaloFest, I have complete confidence in 343i. What these guys have done with Halo Anniversary alone lets me know they are serious about keeping the essence of the series, but also taking it to the next level.

Any Halo release for me will always be the biggest event in gaming. Halo 4 is day one, set in stone.

 

[AwShucks]

I used to listen to Ryan on the KojiPro podcast and always thought he had some interesting things to say and back then around MGS4 release time it sounded like he was doing some good work on the game.

That said, I'm glad he isn't working on Halo anymore because one thing that always bugged me was that I'd have no interest in what he was working on (not being a Halo fan and all).

Good luck Ryan and I look forward to seeing what you're doing.

 

[charsace]

Were the Def Jam games last gen good?

The second def jam was an awesome fighting/wrestling game. I wish it was BC.

 

[metareferential]

Does anyone have some other name other than Josh Holmes for creative director at 343i, since we know they have more than one?

Maybe they refer to "creative director" as a general role (Payton was narrative director).

 

[Lingitiz]

Does anyone have some other name other than Josh Holmes for creative director at 343i, since we know they have more than one?

Maybe they refer to "creative director" as a general role (Payton was narrative director).

Well it might not amount to much but Holmes is "Studio Creative Director" which I can only assume means that he oversees more than just Halo 4.

 

[Rad-]

343 Industries has assembled an all-star cast of talent working on Halo 4 under the design leadership of Studio and Halo 4 Creative Director, Josh Holmes. We're excited to tell the next story in the Halo universe with Halo 4 as the first game in the Reclaimer Trilogy. Ryan Payton, who left earlier this summer, served as Narrative Designer on Halo 4 for 15 months. Armando Troisi was hired as the Halo 4 Narrative Director in March, having formerly served as the Lead Cinematic Designer on Mass Effect 2. Ryan has been a great friend and colleague during his tenure at 343 Industries and we appreciate his contributions to the team. We wish Ryan the best in his new game development venture.

Wow. Presentation is probably ME2's biggest selling point. Nice catch there 343. Wishing good future to Payton but it sounds like 343 didn't exactly lose in this situation if you look at their past resumes.

 

[jett]

I think equating any sort of thought in line with "someone who really liked Heavy Rain should never work on a Halo game" is shallow, yes, because it is a completely nonsensical conclusion.

As for his working experience on MGS4, what do we know which has been shared, is that his input on the game involved helping the staff working on the game understand the implementation of shooting and cover mechanics which would be more logical and intuitive to players familiar with such games. MGS4 uses much more shooting action than any previous MGS game, and it was important to get right. The interface and the controls, as well as how the game delivered feedback to the player, were all aspects where he helped tune.

Since Halo is also a series which is heavily based on shooting action, and feeling "right" is a major component of Halo's gameplay design while at Bungie, I think it makes perfect sense that they would have been interested to have someone like Ryan Payton on board.

The cover mechanics in MGS4 are seven shades of terrible though. That's probably more to do with Motosada Mori slipping away into dementia. Hugging the wall, really?

 

[Booshka]

People that bitch that Halo ruined PC Arena FPS games should be blaming Counter-Strike. I really don't understand how the success of a console shooter is responsible for the "decline in quality of PC shooters."

 

[GDJustin]

Not saying it is the case here as I do not know anything of his true contributions, but just generally I have come across people in my career who have an amazing CV with superb positions in top name companies, yet they have not deonstrably contributed anything substantial they can claim undeniably theirs to explain their success - after a first lucky strike they are able to go from top gig to top gig on the strength of their CV, just need to leave before this is exposed. It's a virtuous/vicious cycle.

This is why all investors and employers in a creative industry need to be relentless when validating qualifications.

I don't know anything about Payton but I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Sarah_Bryant]

Paying attention to the statements from both parties and reading between the lines, is there anyone here who hasn't figured out that Payton was demoted, fired/forced out, and then turned around and lied about it publicly?

 

[Chuck Norris]

Isn't this the guy who convinced the team to overrule Kojima's original ending for MGS4?

He can fall into a pit of fire for all I care

 

[Salaadin]

Isn't this the guy who convinced the team to overrule Kojima's original ending for MGS4?

He can fall into a pit of fire for all I care

Huh?

All i remember reading is that Kojima wanted Snake and Otacon executed for their crimes at the end of MGS4 but that most of the staff voted against it. Where did you read that Payton single handedly set this in motion?

"One of my ideas [for MGS4's ending] was that, since Snake and Otacon are breaking the law in order to fulfill their justice, I was thinking of having them turn themselves in, and for the sake of justice, they'd get convicted and executed by the law," he explained. "But all of my staff went against the idea, so I decided not to go with that."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6179757.html

 

[Slappers Only]

Huh?

All i remember reading is that Kojima wanted Snake and Otacon executed for their crimes at the end of MGS4 but that most of the staff voted against it. Where did you read that Payton single handedly set this in motion?


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6179757.html

Since when is a Japanese development house a democracy? Wow.

 

[mkenyon]

Holy shit. The name sounded familiar to me, so I look it up to see if it was who I thought it was. Ryan Payton is the older brother of my best friend in Jr. High. I lived down the street from him. Small fucking world.

Guy was an asshole back then, used to torture cats even.

His dad is the coolest dude ever though. Was my role model growing up.

 

[StuBurns]

Holy shit. The name sounded familiar to me, so I look it up to see if it was who I thought it was. Ryan Payton is the older brother of my best friend in Jr. High. I lived down the street from him. Small fucking world.

Guy was an asshole back then, used to torture cats even.

His dad is the coolest dude ever though. Was my role model growing up.

If Payton doesn't get that as a tag, GAF is broken.

 

[feel]

Holy shit. The name sounded familiar to me, so I look it up to see if it was who I thought it was. Ryan Payton is the older brother of my best friend in Jr. High. I lived down the street from him. Small fucking world.

Guy was an asshole back then, used to torture cats even.

His dad is the coolest dude ever though. Was my role model growing up.

holy shit bahahaha

 

[mkenyon]

They would adopt cats, and Ryan would take it upon himself to see how fast he could make them run away by fucking with them. He used to take tube socks and tape them over the cat's head.

He even had a game review blog back then, he used to use the word "juxtaposition" like 10 times in every review, always thought it was hillarious.

 

[elohel]

MGS4 was the biggest risk of all time.

lol f'real?

 

[charsace]

Holy shit. The name sounded familiar to me, so I look it up to see if it was who I thought it was. Ryan Payton is the older brother of my best friend in Jr. High. I lived down the street from him. Small fucking world.

Guy was an asshole back then, used to torture cats even.

His dad is the coolest dude ever though. Was my role model growing up.

His true nature is revealed.

 

[mkenyon]

Older brothers always seem like assholes. He did often take trips to Japan and bring Matt (and by proxy me) delicious candy and awesome video games. My only experience with Metal Gear is watching him play it even. Man, my mind is still so blown!

 

[bernardobri]

Holy shit. The name sounded familiar to me, so I look it up to see if it was who I thought it was. Ryan Payton is the older brother of my best friend in Jr. High. I lived down the street from him. Small fucking world.

Guy was an asshole back then, used to torture cats even.

His dad is the coolest dude ever though. Was my role model growing up.

I said wow.

 

[StuBurns]

The PR ninjas got to mkenyon in fifteen minutes, Payton went for a mentally ill animal abuser to a kind, worldy young man hoarding candy.

 

[Utako]

They would adopt cats, and Ryan would take it upon himself to see how fast he could make them run away by fucking with them. He used to take tube socks and tape them over the cat's head.

He even had a game review blog back then, he used to use the word "juxtaposition" like 10 times in every review, always thought it was hillarious.

Megaton

 

[mkenyon]

The PR ninjas got to mkenyon in fifteen minutes, Payton went for a mentally ill animal abuser to a kind, worldy young man hoarding candy.

Haha, I was just thinking I may have overdone it a bit. Didn't want to make him seem evil. There was good stuff there. He and his brother were the first time I got into console games after being PC exlusive from ~96-2000. He even hooked me up with a modded PSX and a ton of japan exclusive games. He did torture cats though.