• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo Creative Director Ryan Payton Leaves 343i, Starts New Studio

duckroll

Member
WrikaWrek said:
Waaaat

Heavy Rain was his GOTY? That's just funny. What the hell was this guy doing directing Halo?
Seems like a huge mismatch.

It's really weird when I see comments like this. It's strange to have an assumption that people who work creatively in a certain industry, somehow only consume or prefer to consume similar works from that industry to what they create or work on. This is absolutely not true, in fact it is often the reverse.
 
WrikaWrek said:
Waaaat

Heavy Rain was his GOTY? That's just funny. What the hell was this guy doing directing Halo?
Seems like a huge mismatch.
Exactly. They wanted someone to get in line and make a dude bro shooter and he wasn't it.

Good luck to Ryan Payton. I'm pretty excited to see what he's making. Hopefully it comes out on one of the downloadable platforms.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
GhaleonEB said:
I suppose it depends what he wanted to change, the gameplay or the structure. So long as the core Halo gameplay is intact, Halo can be rebuilt to be something other than a mission to mission shooter (ODST was sort of a proof of concept).

I remember in the Halo 4 panel, Frankie mentioned that they had built out a number of ideas in iteration that were great, but were ultimately thrown out because "they weren't Halo". He was making a point to emphasize how the team recognized what Halo was at its core and reassuring fans that they were going to preserve it. I don't know if these are dots that don't necessarily warrant connecting, but that's the first thing I thought of after reading the article. Put together, it sounds like Payton wanted to make substantial changes to the game that the rest of the team resisted, and so he left because he didn't feel like he could be passionate about a project in which he felt so limited.

If that's the case, his departure will be better for him, and Halo. No one should work on something they don't love if they have the choice, and Halo shouldn't be shepherded by someone who doesn't love what it is.
This nails it on the head IMO.

People are quick to be juvenile in this thread and derail it into LOLOL HE DOESNT LIKE IT CUZ HALO IS SHIT, but i think it does come
down to a difference in direction, and when all is said and done, a difference in where the franchise should go. Considering Payton has been there for a few years now, I'm sure some of his contributions will see the light as they are quite far into the development process (he was one of the first few hired, no?), but for obvious reasons, specific elements he's contributed won't be accredited to him.

I definitely feel myself Halo needs a shakeup. I'm sure 343i feels the pressure oo, but when you've built a franchise for so long, I don't see why people feel like they need to remove staples of the series and forget all the things they did right. This would mean they would HAVE to have the Warthog, the AR, a BR equivalent, some form of pistol, and the list goes on. These are creative restraints, but theyre restraints that actual fans of the franchise would love to have there. 343i has to walk the line between pleasing returning fans by not alienating what they know and love, and refreshening the formula to try and hook the rest of the folk not in the core fanbase, who may have been fatigued over the past few years.

I would personally love a shakeup in the arsenal with few returning favourites, updated vehicles with the majority of them being new ones, and most of all an entirely new set of enemies that aren't reskins of Covenant enemy types (forerunners), as well as the linear plot structure expanded to what Halo (the level) could have been if resources were unlimited back in 2001: a large expanse to traverse, discover and tell a narrative in.
 

StuBurns

Banned
WrikaWrek said:
Waaaat

Heavy Rain was his GOTY? That's just funny. What the hell was this guy doing directing Halo?
Seems like a huge mismatch.
Indeed, to be clear because now rereading that post, it sounds like I'm bagging on him. Heavy Rain wasn't even close to my favourite game last year, but I wasn't implying he's wrong to prefer it, just that as you say, it seems like a mismatch for his position.
 

duckroll

Member
StuBurns said:
Indeed, to be clear because now rereading that post, it sounds like I'm bagging on him. Heavy Rain wasn't even close to my favourite game last year, but I wasn't implying he's wrong to prefer it, just that as you say, it seems like a mismatch for his position.

Christopher Nolan apparently loves Michael Bay movies. :)
 

StuBurns

Banned
duckroll said:
Christopher Nolan apparently loves Michael Bay movies. :)
Or he's too polite to smack talk them.

I'm not saying Payton doesn't also love Halo, I'm sure he does.

Actually he did write a brutal review of MGS2 back in the day.
 

Suzzopher

Member
TheOddOne said:
even meating with the director.

oohru.jpg


On a serious note, saying someone is mismatched to a position on a game due to his/hers preferences of games they enjoy playing is ridiculous. He wouldn't have got the job in the first place if he wasn't able to contribute a lot to the project.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Suzzopher said:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5775/oohru.jpg[IMG]

On a serious note, saying someone is mismatched to a position on a game due to his/hers preferences of games they enjoy playing is ridiculous. He wouldn't have got the job in the first place if he wasn't able to contribute a lot to the project.[/QUOTE]
He's left, because he doesn't care about it, I think that goes some way to suggest he was a poor fit for the position.
 
element said:
Should be stated that there are multiple creative directors on Halo 4. The project isn't going to fall apart.

Maybe there are too many creative directors, it would be hard for Bungie to make HALO4, let alone a new team even if a few people have worked on the franchise before.

I'm not sure if it was such a great idea simply throwing a bunch of so-called "all-stars" together and expecting them to reinvent a franchise that belongs to an established developer like Bungie because the new product will definitely be compared to Bungie's HALO games and will be put under a microscope.
 

wabo

Banned
ProfessorMoran said:
Maybe there are too many creative directors, it would be hard for Bungie to make HALO4, let alone a new team even if a few people have worked on the franchise before.

I'm not sure if it was such a great idea simply throwing a bunch of so-called "all-stars" together and expecting them to reinvent a franchise that belongs to an established developer like Bungie because the new product will definitely be compared to Bungie's HALO games and will be put under a microscope.

I would call 343i members everything but not "all-stars". I mean, there is some really good people but """"the workers"""" are a whole different thing*.

*In a professional-skills way, don't know them in person.
 

monome

Member
lockload said:
Switching halo to 3rd person would signal instant death, may aswell just release a new IP

3rd person infiltration game with an odst?
action game like bayonetta with a powerful forerunner?
Heavy rain stlyled game on murders on a UNSC spaceship?
MMO set 1000 years after the new trilogy?

Halo with Chief in 3rd person is a no-no, the rest I would welcome with both arms since I can deal with comics, toys, books...
 
StuBurns said:
He's left, because he doesn't care about it, I think that goes some way to suggest he was a poor fit for the position.
Sounds to me he left because he wasn't allowed to do his job (be a creative director).
 
monome said:
3rd person infiltration game with an odst?
action game like bayonetta with a powerful forerunner?
Heavy rain stlyled game on murders on a UNSC spaceship?
MMO set 1000 years after the new trilogy?

Halo with Chief in 3rd person is a no-no, the rest I would welcome with both arms since I can deal with comics, toys, books...

That's what he said, new IP.

The MMO, they already tried, and shut it down.

halo_mmo.jpg


Sounds to me he left because he wasn't allowed to do his job (be a creative director).

Sounds to me he left because he didn't enjoy being a creative director of something he wasn't excited for. However you put it, he did the right thing, and I'm sure 343i will do just fine too.
 

StuBurns

Banned
duckroll said:
No, that's not what I said. :p
Oh, my mistake, I didn't read the little face guy.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with doing a job you don't care about, I doubt even Bay likes his movies (well, The Rock aside). But if Payton can afford to go off and do something he cares about that's not going to make him ill, he certainly should.

I hope it is XBLA/PSN though, iOS is teh suck as they say.
 

duckroll

Member
StuBurns said:
Oh, my mistake, I didn't read the little face guy.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with doing a job you don't care about, I doubt even Bay likes his movies (well, The Rock aside). But if Payton can afford to go off and do something he cares about that's not going to make him ill, he certainly should.

I hope it is XBLA/PSN though, iOS is teh suck as they say.

No, Christopher Nolan is really a fan of Michael Bay movies. I know you refuse to believe this, but that's your loss.
 

NavNucST3

Member
As difficult as it may be for the creatives I generally advise them to leave the industry altogether to garner a different perspective. While at times I miss the industry, most days, I couldn't be happier bailing on the industry. But going from major project to starting a studio...you are almost guaranteed to increase your frustrations when you realize, "oh shit, I still need a publisher and marketing and finance and etc..."
 

LiK

Member
duckroll said:
No, Christopher Nolan is really a fan of Michael Bay movies. I know you refuse to believe this, but that's your loss.

yup, besides, a director who makes great movies can love popcorn flicks can't they?
 
I posted more in-depth over at the Reach thread, but I hope this isn't a bad sign for the franchise. As I said there, the franchise needs room to evolve and change. I hope they aren't afraid of new directions and taking risks, which has me the most excited about Halo 4.
 

monome

Member
Littleberu said:
That's what he said, new IP.

The MMO, they already tried, and shut it down.

halo_mmo.jpg




Sounds to me he left because he didn't enjoy being a creative director of something he wasn't excited for. However you put it, he did the right thing, and I'm sure 343i will do just fine too.

at the time Halo's universe was limited.
With their ongoing novelizations and future titles, 343i could set up a much more detailed universe for an MMO.

As for you new IP, I took it as not in the Halo Universe.
 

StuBurns

Banned
NavNucST3 said:
As difficult as it may be for the creatives I generally advise them to leave the industry altogether to garner a different perspective. While at times I miss the industry, most days, I couldn't be happier bailing on the industry. But going from major project to starting a studio...you are almost guaranteed to increase your frustrations when you realize, "oh shit, I still need a publisher and marketing and finance and etc..."
It doesn't sound like he had an issue with the work load or simialr traditional stress sources. He worked a KojiPro for years, and they still pull obscene crunch hours. I imagine in terms of actual work this job was much easier.

It's a shame we don't know more, but it really seems like creative cramp more than anything else.

I'd like to see KojiPro shepherd his project if it's fitting. The things that suck about PO and MGS4 are not his fault, he appeared to have a very positive influence on the studio. His new company name even seems like an allusion to Metal Gear.
 

charsace

Member
Littleberu said:
That's what he said, new IP.

The MMO, they already tried, and shut it down.

halo_mmo.jpg




Sounds to me he left because he didn't enjoy being a creative director of something he wasn't excited for. However you put it, he did the right thing, and I'm sure 343i will do just fine too.
Because they were doing it in a stupid way. A halo MMOFPS set in the future of the series where two factions that are split by ideology instead of race are battling over what to do with the halos would be awesome.


Demoncarnotaur said:
I posted more in-depth over at the Reach thread, but I hope this isn't a bad sign for the franchise. As I said there, the franchise needs room to evolve and change. I hope they aren't afraid of new directions and taking risks, which has me the most excited about Halo 4.
All the halo games feel different to me from a gameplay standpoint. People that think the games don't change are crazy.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
enzo_gt said:
I would personally love a shakeup in the arsenal with few returning favourites, updated vehicles with the majority of them being new ones, and most of all an entirely new set of enemies that aren't reskins of Covenant enemy types (forerunners), as well as the linear plot structure expanded to what Halo (the level) could have been if resources were unlimited back in 2001: a large expanse to traverse, discover and tell a narrative in.
You just described exactly what I'm hoping for.

To me, the definitive moment in Halo's combat cycle comes when we use a plasma pistol to overcharge an Elite's shields, and then toggle weapons to land the headshot. It elegantly leveraged the two-weapon system, showing how pairings can work together, while showing that using tactics like that to dismantle, rather than mow down, enemies is what Halo's combat is (mostly) about. I want a new set of enemies, and mostly new combat sandbox, in which 343 is able to find the new equivalent. Preserve Halo's combat, but with new tools with new enemies in a newly expanded world to explore and fight in.
 
This quote from reddit describes how I feel about this.

The articles are hacking a story together from information that isn't noteworthy. Payton is an industry short-timer with just three years in as an Assistant Producer on MGS4 and three more as an over-promoted Creative Director on Halo 4. He had dreams of revolutionizing a gigantic franchise and when that (expectably) didn't pan out he got depressed and took a pot shot at the franchise on his way out. Now he's dreaming of billion-player games while editors urge their writers to work a tiny ripple into a noticeable wave about a relative nobody's personal discovery of and interest in the possibilities of indie game development.

How does a guy that was freelancing for magazines goes on to become a "creative director"? What the hell does that even mean?
 
I wish him the best.

His Koji-pro reports where awesome.

Also it takes some balls to walk out on Halo. Just sounds like the Microsoft work environment wasnt for him.

I will probably buy what he makes just because he seems like a cool guy... well once it isnt a iOS game or something.
 

FStop7

Banned
RooMHM said:
Where is that HAHA, OH WOW jpg when we need it most.

Also I'd like to ignore Halo if it didn't do any harm which isn't the case. The number of games sold has lead developer to think the game was good or even interesting and that's very far from my opinion. It has literally killed the FPS genre by puting a console lead for a genre thats not adapted to consoles at all even with the downgrades in gameplay and the over simplification of its mechanisms. Let's see where Arena FPS are now ... I don't see any. Competitive FPS? No more. I think the last one was Painkiller.
Because it has set the nom (I wonder how because its inferior to almost everything that was done before on PC), the FPS genre has known a continual downgrade like a creative blackhole. I'd really love to ignore Halo.

It's not about polluting threads, it's about changing the opinions. I believe that if you prefer something that is worse it's because you don't really know the better games. This lack of knowledge (ignorance of the PC scene) among the gamers is the only cause to this imo. is it wrong to try and show that there are more interesting things?

funniest post since 'square just shot themselves in the foot'
 

charsace

Member
funkystudent said:
I wish him the best.

His Koji-pro reports where awesome.

Also it takes some balls to walk out on Halo. Just sounds like the Microsoft world environment wasnt for him.

I will probably buy what he makes just because he seems like a cool guy... well once it isnt a iOS game or something.
Should have stayed on at least to the end of this game. The team on this thing was great and it would have looked great on his resume.
 
GhaleonEB said:
You just described exactly what I'm hoping for.

To me, the definitive moment in Halo's combat cycle comes when we use a plasma pistol to overcharge an Elite's shields, and then toggle weapons to land the headshot. It elegantly leveraged the two-weapon system, showing how pairings can work together, while showing that using tactics like that to dismantle, rather than mow down, enemies is what Halo's combat is (mostly) about. I want a new set of enemies, and mostly new combat sandbox, in which 343 is able to find the new equivalent. Preserve Halo's combat, but with new tools with new enemies in a newly expanded world to explore and fight in.

Actually yeah, Im going to agree with this as well. That sounds like a good move for the franchise and what I have wanted for a long time, and finally from a story perspective they have an reason.

That rumor a while back, ridiculous as it may have been, had talk of "hover hogs" that utilized covenant and forerunner tech. I would love to see a radical departure of what we are used to in the franchise like this.
 

AAK

Member
Solo said:
Guy was an accomplice to the tragedy that was MGS4. Don't know if I'd hire him.

You wouldn't hire a guy that made a multi-GOTY winning 6 million+ selling game?
 

Arnie

Member
Considering how hardcore Halo fans haven't had a true sequel to the games multiplayer component since 2007 I'm overjoyed at this. Whilst many may not truly understand such thinking, and some ignorant souls might continue to bang on the pathetic drum that Halo is being over-sequelised and lacks variation, but this is really not true.

I enjoyed ODST for it's change in structure, and I enjoyed Reach for it's vastly improved campaign with mechanics that excel specifically and solely in this mode, but as a Halo multiplayer fan I'm overjoyed at the level of protection seemingly given to Halo's core mechanics.

I was soured by Reach massively, another new mechanic that doesn't fit with Halo's core, such as Bloom has the potential to turn me away from the franchise altogether.
 

WrikaWrek

Banned
duckroll said:
It's really weird when I see comments like this. It's strange to have an assumption that people who work creatively in a certain industry, somehow only consume or prefer to consume similar works from that industry to what they create or work on. This is absolutely not true, in fact it is often the reverse.

You seem to somehow believe the games industry works like the movie industry. The games industry is not tailor made for story tellers, fortunately or unfortunately.

There's space for it, but it's mostly about a gameplay experience, be it story driven or not. And basically when one of the creative leads of Halo has Heavy Rain as his best game of the year, it concerns me. Why? Because for starters it tells me he has poor taste, and then that he was impressed by a game with some very questionable gameplay values, didn't even manage to accomplish to tell a good story.
 
WrikaWrek said:
You seem to somehow believe the games industry works like the movie industry. The games industry is not tailor made for story tellers, fortunately or unfortunately.

There's space for it, but it's mostly about a gameplay experience, be it story driven or not. And basically when one of the creative leads of Halo has Heavy Rain as his best game of the year, it concerns me. Why? Because for starters it tells me he has poor taste, and then that he was impressed by a game with some very questionable gameplay values, didn't even manage to accomplish to tell a good story.
have to agree there.
 

PooBone

Member
WrikaWrek said:
You seem to somehow believe the games industry works like the movie industry. The games industry is not tailor made for story tellers, fortunately or unfortunately.

There's space for it, but it's mostly about a gameplay experience, be it story driven or not. And basically when one of the creative leads of Halo has Heavy Rain as his best game of the year, it concerns me. Why? Because for starters it tells me he has poor taste, and then that he was impressed by a game with some very questionable gameplay values, didn't even manage to accomplish to tell a good story.
I liked Heavy Rain, and I understand why others would like it too. Doesn't mean it's the game I would try to make if I was a creative director for the Halo sequel, and I don't think his taste in games should lead anyone to think that either. I think Heavy Rain succeeded greatly as an experiment in video game storytelling and showed everyone there was a lot of possibility that had never been explored. Ultimately there were lots of problems with it though.

I also loved Deadly Premonition.

*runs*
 

StuBurns

Banned
Lasthope106 said:
This quote from reddit describes how I feel about this.

How does a guy that was freelancing for magazines goes on to become a "creative director"? What the hell does that even mean?
Other than the move from a producer role to a creative role, it's not as bizarre it sounds. Halo 4 doesn't have a single director, Payton was one higher up of several. If he's unqualified or not was up to MS to decide, and they decided he wasn't.
 
PooBone said:
I liked Heavy Rain, and I understand why others would like it too. Doesn't mean it's the game I would try to make if I was a creative director for the Halo sequel, and I don't think his taste in games should lead anyone to think that either. I think Heavy Rain succeeded greatly as an experiment in video game storytelling and showed everyone there was a lot of possibility that had never been explored. Ultimately there were lots of problems with it though.

I also loved Deadly Premonition.

*runs*


No need to run, Lol. I actually agree with you.
 
Top Bottom