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[Deadly Cyclone]

Should have stayed on at least to the end of this game. The team on this thing was great and it would have looked great on his resume.

This is what I thought was odd. Spent 3 years on Halo 4 and couldn't finish the home stretch?

But if it was really that hard for him to get up and go to work on one of the biggest franchises of all time, maybe it was necessary for him to jump early.

Best of luck to him.

 

[WrikaWrek]

I liked Heavy Rain, and I understand why others would like it too. Doesn't mean it's the game I would try to make if I was a creative director for the Halo sequel, and I don't think his taste in games should lead anyone to think that either. I think Heavy Rain succeeded greatly as an experiment in video game storytelling and showed everyone there was a lot of possibility that had never been explored. Ultimately there were lots of problems with it though.

I also loved Deadly Premonition.

Spoiler

*runs*

It's not about liking it. He can like tons of different shit, but saying that Heavy Rain was the best game he played...

If Cristopher Nolan had said Transformers 3 was his best movie of the year after he had worked on a blunder of a movie before as an associate producer, would you have hope for his next movie, for his ideas?

There's a difference between saying "I like", and "This was what I liked the best".

 

[Lingitiz]

Alot of people coming in here now expecting Halo 4 won't be different at all. There's a ton of ways to shake up the Halo formula while still playing and feeling like Halo. Payton most likely had ideas that were good, but like Frankie said, they just didn't feel like Halo. With all that's going on with his life emotionally it was probably really hard to commit to something he didn't agree with 100%.

I personally want to see a change in the single player design, maybe in a first person adventure style of game. The mystery and exploration of the first Halo would be really strong with that type of level design. Its not all that impossible with some guys from Retro there.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Guy was an accomplice to the tragedy that was MGS4. Don't know if I'd hire him.

He was the guy who made the good parts of MGS4 good. He was behind all of the controller changes to make it play more like a western game. I think he may have been behind Subsistence as well.

 

[LiK]

He was the guy who made the good parts of MGS4 good. He was behind all of the controller changes to make it play more like a western game. I think he may have been behind Subsistence as well.

yea, play MGS4 then go back to the previous MGS games and the controls are way clunkier. Payton did a good job.

 

[JWong]

yea, play MGS4 then go back to the previous MGS games and the controls are way clunkier. Payton did a good job.

Payton stopped Kojima from killing Snake too!

 

[Chinner]

i thought the controls for mgs4 were terrible lol.

 

[LiK]

Payton stopped Kojima from killing Snake too!

Thank gawd. lol

 

[AkuMifune]

Payton stopped Kojima from killing Snake too!

If true he's solely responsible for taking all of the emotional impact of that game away.

 

[Interfectum]

Payton stopped Kojima from killing Snake too!

So he's responsible for ruining the ending of MGS4? Good to know.

 

[StuBurns]

It's not about liking it. He can like tons of different shit, but saying that Heavy Rain was the best game he played...

If Cristopher Nolan had said Transformers 3 was his best movie of the year after he had worked on a blunder of a movie before as an associate producer, would you have hope for his next movie, for his ideas?

There's a difference between saying "I like", and "This was what I liked the best".

The movie director thing is kind of a bad comparison. Even if another Transformers film was optioned, Bay wanted it but he was rejected, and Nolan took it, the funding goes to Nolan's production company, and he gets to do whatever he wants until they get to edit, assuming he didn't get final cut in the contract. MS didn't cut Payton a cheque for $60M and tell him to do as he pleased for four years.

The issue is if he's happy to turn up and make bank while being creatively stifled. He doesn't appear to be, but he can go and make his own little 'Following' to use the Nolan example, and who knows, maybe in ten years he'll own a major studio with an EA partners like deal and he can do whatever he wants on a grand scale.

People seem to think of this as a negative, but I don't see it. A guy quit a very desirable job to go and make something he could completely control. That's awesome.

EDIT: Payton did not stop Kojima from killing Snake and Otacon, the 'team' did, who knows which ending Payton would favour.

 

[Dark Octave]

Good luck to him. I always kinda liked that guy, but if he's depressed to the point that he can't get out of bed because he didn't like the project he was working on, I should have blown my brains out a long time ago.

But with that said, good to see more indies popping up.

 

[duckroll]

You seem to somehow believe the games industry works like the movie industry. The games industry is not tailor made for story tellers, fortunately or unfortunately.

There's space for it, but it's mostly about a gameplay experience, be it story driven or not. And basically when one of the creative leads of Halo has Heavy Rain as his best game of the year, it concerns me. Why? Because for starters it tells me he has poor taste, and then that he was impressed by a game with some very questionable gameplay values, didn't even manage to accomplish to tell a good story.

I don't see the issue honestly. Just because someone likes a game doesn't mean that they will like to make that sort of game, or that it's a reflection of what they would personally do creatively. It just represents what they personally enjoyed.

 

[Interficium]

This quote from reddit describes how I feel about this.



How does a guy that was freelancing for magazines goes on to become a "creative director"? What the hell does that even mean?

This struck me too. I mean, I remember being wowed when his move to Microsoft was like, "a thing." I remember thinking, really? The guy who's job at Kojima was company mouthpiece/token-english-speaking-guy? Sure he suggested (or was the "driving force," depending on who's account you listen to) some control changes in MGS4, and did some good PR (which was his official job) for the studio, but wow, front-page news?

 

[StuBurns]

This struck me too. I mean, I remember being wowed when his move to Microsoft was like, "a thing." I remember thinking, really? The guy who's job at Kojima was company mouthpiece/token-english-speaking-guy? Sure he suggested (or was the "driving force," depending on who's account you listen to) some control changes in MGS4, and did some good PR (which was his official job) for the studio, but wow, front-page news?

His credit on MGS4 was Assistant Producer, can't remember the PO one, but I don't believe it mentions PR.

 

[duckroll]

This struck me too. I mean, I remember being wowed when his move to Microsoft was like, "a thing." I remember thinking, really? The guy who's job at Kojima was company mouthpiece/token-english-speaking-guy? Sure he suggested (or was the "driving force," depending on who's account you listen to) some control changes in MGS4, and did some good PR (which was his official job) for the studio, but wow, front-page news?

Josh Sawyer was the web designer/PR guy for Black Isles Studios back in the 90s. He had no experience in the industry designing games. He is the director of Fallout New Vegas.

 

[LQX]

This struck me too. I mean, I remember being wowed when his move to Microsoft was like, "a thing." I remember thinking, really? The guy who's job at Kojima was company mouthpiece/token-english-speaking-guy? Sure he suggested (or was the "driving force," depending on who's account you listen to) some control changes in MGS4, and did some good PR (which was his official job) for the studio, but wow, front-page news?

Well he was a writer. A creative director is more of thinking man or someone that puts thoughts on paper job so I don't see much of conflict in the position.

 

[Interficium]

His credit on MGS4 was Assistant Producer, can't remember the PO one, but I don't believe it mentions PR.

Ah. I guess I had more memories of him being billed as "Kojima Productions spokesman" or "Kojima Productions representative" in interviews and such then his actual credit.

 

[Misterinenja]

Best of luck to Payton.

Really hope things work out for you.

 

[duckroll]

Ah. I guess I had more memories of him being billed as "Kojima Productions spokesman" or "Kojima Productions representative" in interviews and such then his actual credit.

He worked at Kojima Productions for a very long time. His role on various projects evolved as he got more involved with the actual production and development of titles. I think it is unfair to suggest that someone should not be amounted any consideration or respect simply because they did not enter the company in a traditional game design position, but instead started out as someone working in marketing and localization.

 

[WrikaWrek]

I don't see the issue honestly. Just because someone likes a game doesn't mean that they will like to make that sort of game, or that it's a reflection of what they would personally do creatively. It just represents what they personally enjoyed.

For me the issue is that it was his favorite game of the year, and it's not even a great game, and as said before, one with big flaws in both gameplay and story. In the same year Halo Reach came out, some would say the best Halo game yet.

That's weird to me. Considering the huge problems MGs4 had in balancing a shitty story and gameplay, it adds to my concern.

Obviously, we don't have all the answers, maybe his ideas were amazing. But with the info I have, can't say I'm surprised at creative differences.

 

[Riposte]

Someone(they don't say?) from IGN

Creative Director Walks Off Halo 4
Ryan Payton leaves 343 Industries, saying the game had become a "crazy endeavour".

And then the article itself directly contradicts that.

But he took pain to stress that it wasn't because the game was turning out badly. It was simply not in line with his original vision. "The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different and I don't think I had built enough credibility to see such a crazy endeavor through.

Completely different meaning (in two ways lol).

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/119/1192587p1.html

 

[Interficium]

He worked at Kojima Productions for a very long time. His role on various projects evolved as he got more involved with the actual production and development of titles. I think it is unfair to suggest that someone should not be amounted any consideration or respect simply because they did not enter the company in a traditional game design position, but instead started out as someone working in marketing and localization.

Merely suggesting that his involvement may have been exaggerated.

Is three years really a "very long time" in the game development world?

 

[monome]

This struck me too. I mean, I remember being wowed when his move to Microsoft was like, "a thing." I remember thinking, really? The guy who's job at Kojima was company mouthpiece/token-english-speaking-guy? Sure he suggested (or was the "driving force," depending on who's account you listen to) some control changes in MGS4, and did some good PR (which was his official job) for the studio, but wow, front-page news?

kotaku made it sound important, other outlets followed suit.

As for his role at 343i, although I agree with Ghaleon on the sandbox being overhauled it is a given (New enemies means new weapons. New setting on a foreunner planet means awesome level design. New team will bring some fresh tech.), I would also like some guys bringing other aspects of the halo universe into gaming form.

A book like halo Evolutions is perfect for episodic gaming, each episode possibly playing with its own gameplay according to how fitting it would be to the story.

Duckroll says game and movie industry are different but as a consumer I m less and less inclined towards movies, and would rather play them sometimes in addition to playing games whose gameplay or sandboxes are the main draw.

 

[Interfectum]

IGN... lol

 

[duckroll]

For me the issue is that it was his favorite game of the year, and it's not even a great game, and as said before, one with big flaws in both gameplay and story. In the same year Halo Reach came out, some would say the best Halo game yet.

That's weird to me. Considering the huge problems MGs4 had in balancing a shitty story and gameplay, it adds to my concern.

Obviously, we don't have all the answers, maybe his ideas were amazing. But with the info I have, can't say I'm surprised at creative differences.

Seems like a really shallow way of looking at things. Ultimately the only thing which matters is the actual quality of output from a creative talent. It doesn't really matter what he/she likes personally. Those are just curious details which fans tend to get attached to. If he specifically says that he is inspired by a certain work, and wants to make something like that, it would be really relevant. If he just likes the shit out of a game, it could be the worst game of all time and it wouldn't mean anything. What you like best is not always what you consider the most competent or technically impressive.

 

[Gintamen]

Merely suggesting that his involvement may have been exaggerated.

Is three years really a "very long time" in the game development world?

If it's 3 out of 4 years of development/production, than yes! As for most other games, any more years mean they've done something wrong.

 

[Salaadin]

That's weird to me. Considering the huge problems MGs4 had in balancing a shitty story and gameplay, it adds to my concern..

Consider what he had to work with and who he was working for. Weve all heard stories before about Kojimas reluctance to cut and alter things so severely changing MGS4s story/gameplay balance to make things more level might not have even been possible for the guy.

The westernization he helped bring to the menus, controls, and gameplay were mostly welcome changes. MGS4 was the first time in the series that I felt like they actually thought about the control scheme instead of just adding more commands to the same number of buttons.

 

[TheOddOne]

It's an OK movie.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Seems like a really shallow way of looking at things. Ultimately the only thing which matters is the actual quality of output from a creative talent. It doesn't really matter what he/she likes personally. Those are just curious details which fans tend to get attached to. If he specifically says that he is inspired by a certain work, and wants to make something like that, it would be really relevant. If he just likes the shit out of a game, it could be the worst game of all time and it wouldn't mean anything. What you like best is not always what you consider the most competent or technically impressive.

Shallow?

So, looking at the previous game he worked on and his personal thoughts on other games, plus the fact that apparently he didn't even actually want to make an Halo game, isn't enough to understand it was a mismatch?

There's nothing shallow there, it's plain old interpretation. That's how you pick people to work on stuff. Not saying he won't make good games at camouflage.

 

[Shard]

This probably is not the best of signs.

 

[StuBurns]

Shallow?

So, looking at the previous game he worked on and his personal thoughts on other games, plus the fact that apparently he didn't even actually want to make an Halo game, isn't enough to understand it was a mismatch?

There's nothing shallow there, it's plain old interpretation. That's how you pick people to work on stuff. Not saying he won't make good games at camouflage.

While I mostly agree with you, I don't think it's always best to hire people who love a series if your intent is to mix it up. I seriously doubt MS want Halo 4 to mix it up, but that's pure speculation.

A big MGS fan is the last person I'd want taking on the series for example.

 

[infinityBCRT]

This struck me too. I mean, I remember being wowed when his move to Microsoft was like, "a thing." I remember thinking, really? The guy who's job at Kojima was company mouthpiece/token-english-speaking-guy? Sure he suggested (or was the "driving force," depending on who's account you listen to) some control changes in MGS4, and did some good PR (which was his official job) for the studio, but wow, front-page news?

Payton was more than just a PR guy. He was part of improving the user experience and he also oversaw the voice acting sessions. I'm sure he did other things as well (probably ensuring that the translation was as good as possible for one) but thats the prominent things I remember at the moment.

Also that thing about him changing the ending of MGS4 is BS. Hes a guy who likes bold moves, thats the whole reason hes leaving 343.

 

[duckroll]

Shallow?

So, looking at the previous game he worked on and his personal thoughts on other games, plus the fact that apparently he didn't even actually want to make an Halo game, isn't enough to understand it was a mismatch?

There's nothing shallow there, it's plain old interpretation. That's how you pick people to work on stuff.

I think equating any sort of thought in line with "someone who really liked Heavy Rain should never work on a Halo game" is shallow, yes, because it is a completely nonsensical conclusion.

As for his working experience on MGS4, what do we know which has been shared, is that his input on the game involved helping the staff working on the game understand the implementation of shooting and cover mechanics which would be more logical and intuitive to players familiar with such games. MGS4 uses much more shooting action than any previous MGS game, and it was important to get right. The interface and the controls, as well as how the game delivered feedback to the player, were all aspects where he helped tune.

Since Halo is also a series which is heavily based on shooting action, and feeling "right" is a major component of Halo's gameplay design while at Bungie, I think it makes perfect sense that they would have been interested to have someone like Ryan Payton on board.

 

[JWong]

So he's responsible for ruining the ending of MGS4? Good to know.

Him and... Kitamura? I think.

It's what I remembered from the documentaries.

 

[Gaogaogao]

I wish I could have seen Ryan Payton's Halo, glad hes doing something new anyhow.

 

[Suzzopher]

I wish I could have seen ryan payton's halo, glad hes doing something new anyhow.

He's been there for three years, I am sure a lot of "Ryan Payton's Halo" is in there already.

 

[JWong]

He's been there for three years, I am sure a lot of "Ryan Payton's Halo" is in there already.

Until the Kinect came along.

 

[WrikaWrek]

While I mostly agree with you, I don't think it's always best to hire people who love a series if your intent is to mix it up. I seriously doubt MS want Halo 4 to mix it up, but that's pure speculation.

A big MGS fan is the last person I'd want taking on the series for example.

I think you gotta love Halo or at least bee sufficiently involved with it, so that you have a clear notion of what makes Halo the franchise it is, and the fan base around it, so that your ideas can drive Halo forward and not sideways.

Because it's a game, with a community. And you cannot turn Halo into something it isn't, doesn't make sense. For that, you do a Spin off.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

This could mean a million things, but it still worries me. However, as long as they have a multiplayer beta I'll be able to gauge whether or not I want to buy the game.

 

[Gaogaogao]

He's been there for three years, I am sure a lot of "Ryan Payton's Halo" is in there already.

you know I think the reason he left is because that is not the case. it sounds like he felt like he was wasting his time.

 

[bluemax]

So wait, this guy went from Podcast host, to Assistant Producer to Creative Director?

Holy fuck, how many dicks did he suck?

 

[Suzzopher]

you know I think the reason he left is because that is not the case. it sounds like he felt like he was wasting his time.

It sounds like he had more creative ambition than to work on a AAA franchise.

 

[Gaogaogao]

It sounds like he had more creative ambition than to work on a AAA franchise.

if only "AAA" actually meant something...

 

[duckroll]

So wait, this guy went from Podcast host, to Assistant Producer to Creative Director?

Holy fuck, how many dicks did he suck?

Okay, you know what, shit like this is simply not acceptable. If you want to be condescending, at least use less offensive phrasing.

 

[yellow submarine]

It sounds like he had more creative ambition than to work on a AAA franchise.

Well, Microsoft just had their annual reviews recently. Going down with depression and not being able to show up to work probably got him in trouble with his annual review scores. And so instead of having to be treated like a failure in the Borg; he decided to leave and go elsewhere.

 

[Seraphinianus]

yup, besides, a director who makes great movies can love popcorn flicks can't they?

he can also make popcorn flicks (inception)

 

[LiK]

he can also make popcorn flicks (inception)

Popcorn within a popcorn.

 

[StuBurns]

EDIT: NM

 

[Hey You]

I would be worried if he worked on Halo Games previously and then walked off. If its someone who never has worked on a Halo game, worked on different types of games previously then no worries here.

Also mentioned by others, glad to see that one person isn't in charge of the entire game.