Welfare
Member
One of the guys that is working on the project got banned for advocating piracy. Wouldn't surprise me if mods are using this thread as a trap for others.
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Halo Online modders working to strip micro-transactions, release worldwide
- Thread starter mocoworm
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One of the guys that is working on the project got banned for advocating piracy. Wouldn't surprise me if mods are using this thread as a trap for others.
I'm not calling for bans... much like I wouldn't be calling for bans in a thread discussing how to play all those arcade emulations. I'd argue against anyone claiming that isn't piracy though, because it blatantly is. Even if it's a game like Border Break, that I have no chance of playing legitimately over here. If they didn't want to release it here, that's too bad for me. I don't get to simply steal it because it's something I would like to play.
Of course not, merely discussing what I hope MS would do to make a success of a Halo game and others on PC within Russia and elsewhere. They are going about it wrong.
texhnolyze
Banned
It's a private server.
There are lots of pirvate server for many games out there. You may dont call them piracy, but private servers aren't something that's legal for sure.
Can you play WoW for free on Blizzard's server? No, but you can on private servers.
I don't know Gaf's stance on private servers, but this one should share the same treatment.
There are lots of pirvate server for many games out there. You may dont call them piracy, but private servers aren't something that's legal for sure.
Can you play WoW for free on Blizzard's server? No, but you can on private servers.
I don't know Gaf's stance on private servers, but this one should share the same treatment.
MrGreencastle
Member
My issue is that most people doing so are demonstrating a lack of understanding over what exactly is going on.
Yes, getting Halo Online's files is piracy at this point.
What isn't piracy (in my opinion) is the ElDewrito tools and similar, and the tunneling tools such as Evolve and so on. At least, that's the sticking point that I'm having trouble agreeing with. I don't agree that it is morally objectionable at all to mod your games on PC.
I think that's just looking for a reason to shut down all discussion based on the story presented in the OP, which is just sad. At this point I fear people are getting too emotionally invested and it's probably time to bail out - the ban baiting is indeed embarrassing.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
Hasn't Halo been around for 20 years now? So, shouldn't it be public domain?
Welfare
Member
Halo turns 14 this year.
DXLelouch153
Banned
alot of stuff wouldnt happen if more companies didnt have their heads so far up their own asses and just gave us what we fucking want
its not entitlement if im willing to pay you money dammit
im excited for DDO but its not the first one on PC -_-
its not entitlement if im willing to pay you money dammit
im excited for DDO but its not the first one on PC -_-
It's not modding the game though. It's taking the game off of the servers that would allow it to make money.
NullPointer
Member
Whats the crime in running a private server exactly?
StalkerUKCG
Banned
I'm not ban baiting anyone. I couldn't give two shits if anyone gets banned here or not.
I'm really all for modding. But this isn't it. It's using content you have no right to use. Elderito is copyright infringement at the very least which is a civil crime and punishable by law. It's piracy if presented correctly in a courtroom.
Morally it's shitty to take other peoples work and find a way to stop them profiting from it. Regardless of what elderito does or doesnt do the engine it's running on and the assets its using all took time and effort from people and those people got a wage for it based on the expected income of the title. elderito will negatively effect that titles profits because it's giving competition to the F2P model and it's using assets without consent of the creator to do so.
I don't see the need to start cutting up what is and isn't a crime when pretty much everything being done here is.
Depends on if the TOS allow it and If they don't then you open and entirely different can of worms with different legal facets involved.
But this is far more than a private server.
Thanks, right now the plan is to having something play by the end of summer.
After we hit a particular milestone I will either
A) Continue work on classic Halo style
or
B) Work on adding a combo system like mechanic for it and have that as its own thing (think BxR but different combos that apply to different weapons like the Brute Shots R and B) and then release the classic base to the community to work together on.
Depends all on how testing goes.
texhnolyze
Banned
Read the next line of my post you quoted.
Actually that is just modding, that part isn't piracy really since all modifications are open source.
As it's been said before it's the acquisition of the alpha game files that would more likely fall under piracy.
No, eldorito is open source.
NullPointer
Member
I did. Twice now. Whats the crime exactly?
I'm sure that Blizzard doesn't want you to do so, but that doesn't make it illegal.
If it is a crime I'm unaware of it and would like to be made aware of it ;p
OldAsUrSock
Banned
Microsoft could also profit by just releasing Halo 3 for $50 on Steam.
Fiery Phoenix
Banned
Haven't been following but I really don't understand why this game is Russia-only. Doesn't make sense.
Welfare
Member
texhnolyze
Banned
Well, I'm not sure neither, I'm not a legal graduate anyway.
I'm positive though those private servers don't own/purchase the IP from the developers to run the games. Is that illegal enough?
Anyway, I've played some private servers, it's not like I'm totally against them.
Steverulez
Member
Its Microsofts IP, they should be able to do what they want with it. They have a platform they want to sell and thats where they put their efforts and its their right, that doesn't give other people any right to do it because its not what they want.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Good for eldorito. The content it's using like the .map files are not open source. It's propagating a crime.
Yes but it's not eldorito. You are spreading wrong info.
The game files are a separate issue.
Yeah it would have to be MMC to sell at that price
Because russia is a PC centric market. It'll probably go to other markets where PC is overwhelmingly dominant too.
meanspartan
Member
Well I see it as I own every Halo game released except for MCC, and I have no moral qualms with playing what is basically Halo 3 on PC, since I own Halo 3. The same way I have no qualms with downloading a rom for an emulator if I own the game in physical form.
PC players have been begging for Halo on PC since forever, and Microsoft answers that (after saying how they'd totally take PC seriously for the 200th time) with releasing the game in Russia only? GET FUCKED assholes. I'm so happy this is happening to them.
And for the record, I am not actually going to play this. I don't really want to play Halo 3, a game from 2007, on PC at this point. And I would advise those working on it to stop too, because even though Microsoft totally deserves it for being assholes, it isn't worth getting in trouble over.
DXLelouch153
Banned
it wouldnt even be $50 for long cause steam sales exist
NullPointer
Member
I wouldn't think so, no, but I'm not a legal guy either.
Seems like the piracy argument is specifically talking about distributing the alpha? Its a little weird in the sense that the final product will be freely distributed, but the charge at least makes some sense. The modding work itself seems OK to me though, and looks to be about using clever methods to work around the code rather than modifying any of it. And I think those two things are getting intertwined when talking about whats legal and what isn't. I've actually been trying to get a handle on this piece by piece.
That's not what counts though. If eldorito doesn't contain any of Microsoft's code it's not illegal. Stat.
Do you think emulators are prpagating a crime, too?
It's like cheats/trainers, the complexity arises since the revenue is achieved through what the cheats/trainer provide for free. Kind of like cracking a game, except only bits of the game, since it can be played totally free with without access to all content.
It's definately an odd case to me.
It's definately an odd case to me.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Splitting hairs.
The only use for Eldorito is to commit copyright infringement. Unless someone builds their own engine and files which Eldorito launches then it sits in a little safe hole in which everyone who uses it is committing a crime but not the program itself.
It's aiding a criminal act.
Regardless of that I'm making an argument against it's use.
I should have been more clear but I didn't feel the need to be.
meanspartan
Member
Here it is again for the record. And it isn't even up to date with their recent totally legit promises. Microsoft has one real way to prove they are "Taking PC gaming seriously", and that is releasing Halo on PC in some form. It doesn't have to be Halo 5, but something like MCC would be nice.
And it's not like they never do release them- they put out Halo 2 to try and bribe people onto a shitty new OS when Vista came out.
So the way I see it, the modders are just fulfilling Microsoft's promise for them, since they can't seem to keep it themselves ;-)
And it's not like they never do release them- they put out Halo 2 to try and bribe people onto a shitty new OS when Vista came out.
So the way I see it, the modders are just fulfilling Microsoft's promise for them, since they can't seem to keep it themselves ;-)
So should I delete notepad off my PC too?
What about memory dumpers?
Hex editors?
Emulators?
Torrent clients?
It's just a tool. You can't say it falls under "aiding piracy".
Also it's still a bit far to say eldorito mod is copyright infringement, it's just an injector like a trainer.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Considering all those have a use outside of committing a crime then no.
Does Eldorito?
I think this is where the main issues lie. Currently, there is no way to get the files from any official source. There is also the EULA from the Russian site from those who signed up and made the files available to others. When you look at that, modding the game is actually against the rules of that EULA.
https://ru.4game.com/licence/view/serviceId/28/type/2/
Im sure it could if you wanted to take this in front of a judge...
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Considering it's only function is to launch copyright protected content that the user has no right to use in that manner then I doubt it could.
Now this I agree with. Attacking eldorito files I don't since at the end of the day those files are scratch made with no code within them belonging to a 3rd party.
What assets? Eldorito does not come with any game asset, everything is inside Halo Online client, eldorito only uncover these functionalities without modifying the game itself.
If they distribute the game for free, and does not include any license clause saying you can only play on official servers using eldorito is perfectly legal.
If they didn't think about this and want to modify the license in a future update i'm afraid it will be toó late, you cannot apply a license change retroactively.
So I think they just fucked up and gave people a game with private servers for free and all perfectly legal.
Too bad EULA isn't a legally binding document just about anywhere in the world.
Well, to be fair, ElDorito is violating the EULA.
From Google Translate:
Which I was about to get to. Although it's not legally binding, I wouldn't be surprised to see something happen moving forward with regards to ElDoritio development and Microsoft.
Fair enough.
Wouldn't GTA V have something like that? People are ready for mods though.
And yeah we come back to the F2P argument. I think this is hard to argue either way because of that. It's more on moral grounds I guess.
The EULA isnt legally binding. breaking the EULA will pretty much only lead to an account ban for halo online.
NullPointer
Member
Would it be the same situation if the game had already released and modders did the same work with the final (read: launch), freely distributed client?
I can't tell whether its the distribution of the alpha you have problems with or the modding, or both.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Well
My problem is with unauthorized usage of content. It's not freely available to everyone. I have doubts if it ever will be. Dev's put work into the content and what is happening here can detracts from the companies ultimate income. The population can suffer from this and the knock on effect means less people will be buying the microtransactions which could lead to smaller budgets for future development paths and people loosing their jobs because of that.
It realistically doubt it will ever come to that but still the point stands. It's copyright infringement and piracy which have negative effects in the industry. El Dorito might be using a legal safe zone because it's not actually using any game assets but this isn't modding giving games more life. When that happens it typically encourages more people to invest money in a game like Skyrim. This is modding that provides competition to the monetary model.
The EULA is not a legally binding contract
breaking these will just lead to an account ban.
NullPointer
Member
Thanks, and I definitely understand where you're coming from now.
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