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Halo |OT11| Forward Unto Dong

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willow ve

Member
Global Ordnance

When the changes were made the global ordnance it was justified as a way to help balance the playing field. The argument was that power weapons were no longer on static timers, hence everyone would be on a level playing field (because no one would be able to time the drops, dirty drop weapons, etc.)

Now at the beginning of a match the power weapons all drop into place, and after that it's a roll the dice scenario as to where and when the power weapons will appear again (if they ever appear at all). Instead of providing choke points and a risk/reward scenario as teams try to get out to a weapon spawn area this instead rewards players and teams at complete and total random. Now it's no longer about skill, teamwork, map and gametype knowledge, or situational awareness. It is now 100% dumb luck if A) the power weapon you want and/or are skilled at using appears and B) you are randomly close enough to pick it up.

This is not a balanced or even fair game mechanic.

Personal Ordnance

Personal ordnance, for lack of a better term, is a kill streak. Yes there are other mitigating factors thrown in like assists, multikills, etc., but it boils down to being rewarded for a kill streak. If the attempt was to democratize the distribution of power weapons, and/or make it more enjoyable for everyone involved, this system is setup for failure.

In this scenario only the good/best players are routinely rewarded with ordnance. You spend the first three minutes donging the other team and "Ordnance Ready" announces you now get to roll the dice for even more donging power. Yesterday in a Big Team match I quickly got to a Personal Ordnance drop and chose the Saw. Using the saw I quickly was given another Ordnance (yeah, another Saw) which led to a third Ordnance drop before my first death in the game. I point out this example because I am not especially skilled at Halo. I would say I play a lot and am better than the average AR using masses, but it was the overlapping Ordnance that gave me an edge.

This system promotes momentum and rewards the better player/team with even more stomping power. It is really enjoyable, to be sure, but I feel as over time you'll see a trend of frustration as players or teams can never come back once an opposing player gets the Ordnance train started.

---

Both of the Infinity Slayer gametypes are fun, fast paced, and accessible (for now). I love going in alone and dominating another team (and yet still losing!), but I fear the Global + Personal Ordnance will tire over time and prove to be ultimately frustrating. In my opinion, given the option (and assuming they won't scrap Personal Ordnance from the game), the Global "roll the dice" system as it exists now should be scrapped in favor of static, symmetrical (where applicable) weapon drops on timers.

Oh, and stop giving any sort of grenade as a Personal Ordnance option - no one will ever want that.
 

Blissful

Neo Member
Okay, now try to find any data that's not on the service record for a different player by typing their name where yours is in the address bar.

You can't. Your view of their data is restricted to their service record which for whatever reason displays some of the strangest, most undesired choices of player data that I've seen. Their commendation progress, where it shows just the progress towards the current level of the commendation? The number of loadout items they've bought? Nobody ever wanted to use that data when looking a player up. Fact is, you can't see kills, deaths, assists for anyone other than yourself. Waypoint's performance is way better now, and I tend to like the layout better than before, but the actual data presented is not up to par.

:\

Exactly. I don't understand how 343 screwed this up. I like the concept and all but the data I would like to view is not there or stashed in under a bunch of useless info.

Why not just copy Bungie's format 343 -.-
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Were you noticing a big difference in your shield recharge rate? I swear shields recharge a lot slower in this game. I've been using the mobility one that lets you sprint forever in that slot.

Yeah, it recharges a lot quicker. Note, the time it takes to start recharging is the same, but the actual bar filling up is a lot quicker. So it's not going to save you from dying if someone is chasing you necessarily.

Not sure if I want to keep using it or not.
 

mhi

Member
Same ones I use too. Reload and recharge. Anyone wanna clue me in on how this "skill matching" works ?

Great game btw. Feels like a cross between 2 and Reach.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Yeah, it recharges a lot quicker. Note, the time it takes to start recharging is the same, but the actual bar filling up is a lot quicker. So it's not going to save you from dying if someone is chasing you necessarily.

Not sure if I want to keep using it or not.

Hmm. Mobility (unlimited sprint) definitely saved my ass several times yesterday; in a losing encounter I was able to keep getting around corners faster than the guy shooting me in the back until my shields recharged.
 

Havok

Member
Just finished Reclaimer, and it's the best goddamn mission in the game by a country mile.

The whole concept and setup is very unique to a Halo game. It was so refreshing.

But it's not just the concept that makes the level great – the quality of the encounters takes a significant leap. And there's a reason for that – their design is very much like Halo 3's. And this isn't more apparent than after
the player meets the Librarian and steps outside to the sprawling battle with the two tanks, the Warthog, and the mongoose with rockets. It was harkening back to the battle outside the Cartographer on The Ark. They even had Pete Stacker yelling, "Form up on the Chief! Second line clear, move forward!" Halo 4 was screaming "Halo 3!" at you by that point. Despite their similarity, the execution was different, so it still felt new.
They lend themselves to a huge portion of the Halo sandbox and give the player so many options. I can't wait to go back and tackle those encounters in different ways.
Pretty surprised you like that section as much as you do, honestly.
It's two hallways, basically. I mean, I guess you could take the Warthog or Mongoose if you wanted to, or go on foot, but the other Scorpion will kill everything if you take too long. When I was trying to board a Wraith once, he drove by me and killed 3 of the other Wraiths, and there was nothing left for me to shoot because I was preoccupied for less than a minute. It just felt like a poor man's version of the Ark run, which had that same issue where the game would almost play itself if you tried to utilize options that didn't involve being aggressive enough to stay in front of the friendly tanks. I like the "defend the Mammoth" earlier in the level more, but it's marred by the fact that the friendly AI is really supremely awful at prioritizing targets and not hesitating before firing when gunning in the Warthog. The generator section before that has almost no room to maneuver, and fighting Wraiths in that context just wasn't fun for me. I've warmed up on the level significantly since my first time playing it, but as far as vehicle levels go, I don't think it's one of the greats. This level was the primary reason I put the caveat that people expecting large, interesting vehicle arenas should keep their expectations in check into my writeup, actually.

While pretty much everything you say is true, you can see the number of kills a player has for their most played variant along with their K/D ratio for it. Not that completely makes it better, but you can at least get a little bit of an idea on how a person plays. Seems to me like waypoint was designed with the sole intent of it being viewed through mobile devices. The original Bungie page had way too much on the main page to view from the screen of a phone.
Yeah, I know you can see the most played variant, but I want all of the information that I know they have. Gating it off to people who aren't signed in to that particular profile just makes no sense at all, especially when the navigation pane over there still totally exists, but 90% of it is grayed out for some inexplicable reason.
 
Yeah, I know you can see the most played variant, but I want all of the information that I know they have. Gating it off to people who aren't signed in to that particular profile just makes no sense at all.
Yeah I agree. I kind of see maybe where 343 was going with the layout, but the choice of information provided is odd like you already mentioned.
 

TheOddOne

Member
The list CyRen posted a few pages back sounded really good. If they do 2 TU's, one when the first DLC is released or soojn after and one in the first quarter of 2013 (the one that implements the ''ranking'' system), that should keep me happy. Plus some of those changes, like putting in static weapon spawning and extra playlists, don't even require a TU.
We shall see, still I'm keeping my arms crossed till then.
 

Ramirez

Member
Come off it, one of my friends described the matchmaking experience as a beta last night because you're forced to scroll through the same three maps over and over again, if you stick to 4v4, which is what we prefer.

The matchmaking experience feels really bare; where's that symettrical forge map on the moon environment that was thrown around pre-release? Why aren't their any forge slayer maps ready to go at launch?

If they add Forge maps people would complain. I'll take these 3-4 good-great maps over any of Reach's garbage.

I know. No fall damage is still more fun though.

I had no idea fall damage was in, at what point did you jump out?
 
My God, just starting the 4th mission now and there's been more emotion between the Chief and Cortana than the rest of the Halo games combined.

Bravo, 343, bravo.
 
How does my undying love work for you?



Actually, I have a ton of avatar codes for Chief armor (but I'm at work and the codes are at home). That's about it and I don't blame you for finding greener pastures.

Yeah, I had it on Ebay and it was at $35 and was going to end today, but Ebay removed the listing.
 
Ramirez - if people preferred the normal maps to the Forge ones, couldn't they just not vote for the Forge ones then?
But framerate would be my worry. Saw it jump around badly once or twice on that main bridge in one of the snow maps last night.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
So I've played the first level so far and a couple of the Spartan Op's missons. I have to say the game looks great. I love the way the Warthog handles. Reminds me a lot of Halo 1. The AI though has issues without a doubt. I'm also glad to know that Grunts and Elites can now hop up on things like Skirmishers could in Reach. Granted not near as high but still that's very discerning. Also the random flying grunt when I shoot them in the face is certainly an interesting glitch. Also the interface is awful.

Overall though I'm thinking Ghaleon is on the money with his thoughts. I really do. For me just based off of what I've played so far I'm fairly certain that it's going to be my least favorite of the Halo games. Certainly not awful but without a doubt not up to the standard Bungie set IMO.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Zeouterlimits might enjoy this:

i-9Sc2cRV-X3.jpg
 

Calm Killer

In all media, only true fans who consume every book, film, game, or pog collection deserve to know what's going on.
My God, just starting the 4th mission now and there's been more emotion between the Chief and Cortana than the rest of the Halo games combined.

Bravo, 343, bravo.

just wait...
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
So I've played the first level so far and a couple of the Spartan Op's missons. I have to say the game looks great. I love the way the Warthog handles. Reminds me a lot of Halo 1. The AI though has issues without a doubt. I'm also glad to know that Grunts and Elites can now hop up on things like Skirmishers could in Reach. Granted not near as high but still that's very discerning. Also the random flying grunt when I shoot them in the face is certainly an interesting glitch. Also the interface is awful.

Overall though I'm thinking Ghaleon is on the money with his thoughts. I really do. For me just based off of what I've played so far I'm fairly certain that it's going to be my least favorite of the Halo games. Certainly not awful but without a doubt not up to the standard Bungie set IMO.

Must hit each person differently I guess. I'm more of a story + gameplay guy so right now the game is sitting right below CE and above ODST for me. The multiplayer is much better than Reach too.

I'm only about half way through the campaign. I like fighting the Knights though.
 

Akai__

Member
My retailer, for the UK version of Halo 4, just sold MY copy to someone else. I payed for it on the 1st October and now I'm getting it the next Wednesday. They claim, that my adress is invalid and I trouble checked my adress now for the 5th time and it's correct! :mad:

Why are they doing this to me?
 

Overdoziz

Banned
If they add Forge maps people would complain. I'll take these 3-4 good-great maps over any of Reach's garbage.
If they decide to add Forge maps there really should only be one on each environment at the most. That way you don't get the problem of maps all looking the same.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
My main beef with halo 4 story is simply:
cortana

I mean... If she's really toast, that's like 25% of the way to rampancy I had hoped to see. She was still normal most of the time and insane a fraction of the time- i want to see it totally reversed. I still hope she really isn't dead and she continues down the path of being the scariest and largest threat to everyone and everything. That story thread never reached full flight

*do not quote to reply to the following text as you will spoil yourself*

Oh and screw any voting of any kind

This is like the third halo game in a row where I have to say voting is stupid

Veto was dumb in halo 3
Voting was dumb in reach
And voting is still dumb in halo 4
 
If they decide to add Forge maps there really should only be one on each environment at the most. That way you don't get the problem of maps all looking the same.

I think that would work best. Only so many forge maps should be in the rotation regardless. 3 sounds good if they are all from separate forge environments.
 
Gonna join in on the SpOps bashing.
>way too short
>lots of buttons to press
>can't fail it
I wouldn't call it bashing, more of critiques for making the mode better and more replayable (at least what I've been saying). The no-fail thing is something I haven't considered; it would be neat to have the option to activate skulls outside of matchmaking. There really is no incentive to do anything other than plow straight ahead, since vehicles respawn regularly and there's no point system to deduct from upon death. As of now, SpOps is more like your War Games character's personal campaign than firefight, and I'd love to see the mode settle more in the middle of the two.

Solo Legendary was a far better experience than what's available for online co-op, which goes against it's intent. Hoping for some changes somehow.
 

Ramirez

Member
Ramirez - if people preferred the normal maps to the Forge ones, couldn't they just not vote for the Forge ones then?
But framerate would be my worry. Saw it jump around badly once or twice on that main bridge in one of the snow maps last night.

That worked out well for Uncaged, obviously one of the worst maps ever created, but voted for regularly for jetpack cheese.

All I'm saying is that pre release, people were celebrating the fact that Forge maps wouldn't be in on launch day (myself included), but now they're complaining about the lack of maps. There isn't a single terrible map in the small rotation, which is more than I can say for the last Halo title. We're getting a map pack next month! I just don't understand what people expect...

Also, my Reach console is no longer playing the shield sound when I boot it up, I hope this isn't foreshadowing something. :(
 

BigShow36

Member
All I'm saying is that pre release, people were celebrating the fact that Forge maps wouldn't be in on launch day (myself included), but now they're complaining about the lack of maps. There isn't a single terrible map in the small rotation, which is more than I can say for the last Halo title. We're getting a map pack next month! I just don't understand what people expect...

People expect there to be more than 4 playable maps for the core game mode of multiplayer. I'm not going to pay extra just to have a complete multiplayer experience.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
My main beef with halo 4 story is simply:
cortana

I mean... If she's really toast, that's like 25% of the way to rampancy I had hoped to see. She was still normal most of the time and insane a fraction of the time- i want to see it totally reversed. I still hope she really isn't dead and she continues down the path of being the scariest and largest threat to everyone and everything. That story thread never reached full flight

*do not quote to reply to the following text as you will spoil yourself*

Oh and screw any voting of any kind

This is like the third halo game in a row where I have to say voting is stupid

Veto was dumb in halo 3
Voting was dumb in reach
And voting is still dumb in halo 4

Yea. The story is good but it certainly has some flaws. The one you mention is one of the big ones that bugs me too. I agree with those that say it just falls flat for some reason. As I said it's good but not OMG I love this good like the previous games were for me.
 

MrDaravon

Member
I forgot to mention that in BTB being able to start with a Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenades is the best thing ever. Every single BTB match we played I was draining and sticking/desroying multiple vehicles, it was fucking awesome. Fuck your Banshee, fuck your Warthog, fuck your Mantis. I didn't see a single other person on any of the teams we were playing against doing it, I don't know if people aren't just thinking about that yet or what.
 
Apologies to all for the black boxes...

It's two hallways, basically. I mean, I guess you could take the Warthog or Mongoose if you wanted to, or go on foot, but the other Scorpion will kill everything if you take too long. When I was trying to board a Wraith once, he drove by me and killed 3 of the other Wraiths, and there was nothing left for me to shoot because I was preoccupied for less than a minute.
What do you mean by two hallways? And what difficulty were you playing on? By that point in the level, I was given a tank, and said, "Let's fucking do this!" Then I went on a romp. I was having fun. Next time I'll definitely branch out and see what I can get done in that encounter, and I'm very much looking forward to it.
It just felt like a poor man's version of the Ark run, which had that same issue where the game would almost play itself if you tried to utilize options that didn't involve being aggressive enough to stay in front of the friendly tanks. I like the "defend the Mammoth" earlier in the level more, but it's marred by the fact that the friendly AI is really supremely awful at prioritizing targets and not hesitating before firing when gunning in the Warthog.
I don't know.
It's definitely a bite-sized portion of the run in The Ark and I like The Ark's run more, but it was still very enjoyable to me. I've never had that issue of "the game playing itself" in The Ark because I always felt I had enough time to utilize whatever options were available to me. I didn't notice any problems with the AI while I was playing, and I took to driving the Warthog at several points.

*shrug*
The generator section before that has almost no room to maneuver, and fighting Wraiths in that context just wasn't fun for me. I've warmed up on the level significantly since my first time playing it, but as far as vehicle levels go, I don't think it's one of the greats. This level was the primary reason I put the caveat that people expecting large, interesting vehicle arenas should keep their expectations in check into my writeup, actually.
I'd have to go back to play to say more on these points. I wasn't having any difficulty. While the level
doesn't approach the grandness of Halo 3, I think it has more interesting and better vehicle engagements than anything in Reach, Halo 2, and Halo 1. I'd have to play it more to nail down where I think it stands with everything.
I had no idea fall damage was in, at what point did you jump out?
Not sure, but I think
right after I blew it up.

...

I'm also very happy at this point because playing Halo 4 I had been worried that I wasn't liking it because, after five games, I was getting soured on Halo, and then this level comes along and says to me, "That's not the case." And I'm very, very grateful for that.
 

Merguson

Banned
Played some Halo 4 MP last night. I had so much more fun with it as opposed to Halo: Reach.

The core gameplay that I came to love in Halo 3 is back in Halo 4 and that's what matters to me.

We'll see how it plays out over the long run with all the new aspects of multiplayer. However, so far so good.

Haven't played any BTB games so I don't know how the vehicles react. I've used the ghost and the warthog though and they seem more stable than Reach's vehicles so far. We'll see with specializations and power weapons in the future though.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Pointed out elsewhere:

http://www.gamezone.com/products/ha...s-role-in-halo-4-expands-far-beyond-the-forge

"We did a whole lot of stuff," Certain Affinity President and Creative Director Max Hoberman told us. "We were on Halo 4 for 18 months or so. We actually had all hands on deck for the majority of that time so kind of full blown engagement on the multiplayer side of things." "We were full blown co-development for multiplayer in Halo 4. We did a whole bunch of multiplayer maps for the game, all of the Forge maps, the Forge feature maps, and a bunch of game modes including Dominion," he explained.
 
The thing that bugs me most is everything I don't like about the game is everything 343 have added. The best parts of Halo 4 are the core concepts Bungie created and crafted, restored after the experiment that was Reach. Every design and balance decision I see from 343 is borderline amateurish, to me, coming from Bungie's legacy.

Like, literally, the BR is useless. Properly useless. In a straight firefight with a DMR at almost any range I'd be embarrassed to lose. The decision to just throw eveyr weapon into the game to service this trite experience system is completely baffling to me. If you settled on a single weapon and balanced it properly there'd be no need for a DMR and BR, let alone a Carbine and a Light Rifle. Sure, it's an extra option to unlock, but it's pointless and it muddies the flow of combat.

Similarly the ordnance and spawning systems are so counter intuitive to how Halo works that I'm baffled as to their inclusion, to be honest. Giving someone an overshield because they've got three kills is a terrible design decision, to me, and doesn't promote any sort of map movement. In Halo 3, grabbing overshield was a risk, with players having to duel for limited resources on the map.

Edge's criticism that Halo's lost its purity is completely valid, to me. It really has. The core gameplay loop is fantastic, the actual gameplay of jobbing around the map for the pursuit of ordnance is guff. Similarly, the new points system is an abhorent construction, and doesn't connote the scores or effort needed to win as well as the old system. In a game of slayer nobody knows what the fuck you have to do to win, how many kills is 135 points, or whatever. Why not just literally use first to 50 again? Seriously. Just like the new, fuck ugly medals it's a change for the sake of changing, and a clear step back from previous games.

The UI being another perfect example. Fucking terrible.

Completely agree with you, and i hope other halo fans get over their honeymoon period ASAP.
 

Ramirez

Member
People expect there to be more than 4 playable maps for the core game mode of multiplayer. I'm not going to pay extra just to have a complete multiplayer experience.

Then don't pay.

I like what they've done this time around, they split the maps up evenly among the 2 core gametypes.

BTB is actually tolerable because there's more than 2 maps.
 
Wow randoms are so bad. Join in progress in a losing game, almost bring them back to win, have to back out to avoid playing another game with them, get another join in progress game. Fuck you 343.
 

BigShow36

Member
Then don't pay.

I don't plan on it.


I like what they've done this time around, they split the maps up evenly among the 2 core gametypes.

BTB is not core Halo, despite what GAF wants to believe. Yes, it is an integral part of Halo and shouldn't be ignored, but it is not what most people play and never has been (just look at the numbers).

Halo has always been, at its core, a 2v2 or 4v4 game for Slayer and Objective. Frankly, it's a major misstep and disappointment when 343 decided to make more Big Team maps than smaller, 4v4 maps.

I like a lot of what Halo 4 does, but it also makes equally as many mind-boggling decisions. If their strategy to get players to buy DLC was to withhold smaller maps from the product, I'm not playing that game.
 

mhi

Member
. The game is great. Loving the multi off the bat unlike 3 and Reach.

If you don't like it, I suggest you get a refund before the 30 days are over.
 

Havok

Member
Apologies to all for the black boxes...


What do you mean by two hallways? And what difficulty were you playing on? By that point in the level, I was given a tank, and said, "Let's fucking do this!" Then I went on a romp. I was having fun. Next time I'll definitely branch out and see what I can get done in that encounter, and I'm very much looking forward to it.
I've played it on Heroic and Legendary. Don't get me wrong. It's not difficult, in fact I don't think any section of the game is, apart from Mission 3's Banshee sequence on Legendary. But there isn't really much nuance to that tank section beside "keep pushing forward." It's a fun section, but the actual routes you can take are so simplified (essentially a U shaped hallway and a small bowl) that your options of movement, not necessarily of vehicle choice, are really very limited. I've now played it four times, though, so I'll be curious to see if your opinion changes. I like the level, but I suspect a lot of your praise comes it being a breath of fresh air after the levels you've been sour on so far.
 
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