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Halo |OT15| Beta-tested, GAF approved
- Thread starter Booties
- Start date
Yeah but it's distracting in the middle of a tense match, not to mention my screen gets covered with huge white text announcing it.
Just now I was playing SWAT on adrift and was exchanging shots with someone who was in my line of sight, my teammate melees him from behind and I get the distraction medal, which of course means I distracted him, but it renders the point that it helps me know someone on my tail was killed because I saw it happen you know?
They're sort of rewarding mediocrity and not skill in this game. Two bullets in a warthog that someone else destroys gets you more 'points' as an assist than say if you were to kill someone because of skill.
It meant something going on a shotgun spree, sniper spree, wheelman spree. Those are out but comeback kill is in. It's not special to me that because I spawned in a poor area and got my ass gauss cannoned a few times and then go get a kill on a player, it's supposedly a huge deal.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Halo has always been a game that had tons of customization options. Even some that were never used in online matchmaking. But they were there nonetheless and they allowed for eventual creations like grifball, Zombies, racing games, etc... More options can only be a good thing, even if most the community don't use them. And at the same time, youll get some users who will find ways to create the next grifball.
The way it is now, you give user no incentive to even try to create something new. I see zero negatives coming from giving users more options than before. Its something that the game needs and its something that imo Forge desperately needs as well.
Twilight Gap
Member
Again, I agree fully. We the community need to ask for these things appropriately just as much as 343 needs to communicate with us why these things may not be included or working and what they're doing about it. We learned theater was axed from Campaign just weeks before release, and nothing else was heard about it until it was confirmed not to be on the TU list. That just isn't fair.
I've always believed that 3/4 of all problems can be solved by open communication (not yelling).
Zeouterlimits
Member
Awww, that's unfortunate.
ickle Tawpgun
UK is so awesome sometimes.
Because they changed bloom to 2 different settings and never touched them again.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Ya that i agree with. A lot of people in here just complain to complain and a lot of the time, its always about what "they" need and how "they" like to play the game all the while ignoring everyone else that might not be exactly like them. I like to call it "center of the universe" syndrome.
Thats why to me, tons of customization options in Halo is a necessity. It not only is useful for us, but its useful to 343 as well. They wouldn't have to patch the game 5 months later to add stuff that should never have been removed in the first place and at the same time, it gives the game a real identity. The game that you can play however you want.
To me, its just so obvious that Halo should be like this and it just frustrates me that something as simple as an on/off feature could be completely ignored. Its baffling to me.
And i love the sprint, i enjoy AAs and hell, i even enjoy the new CTF. But i also enjoyed assault, juggernaut, one flag, one bomb, Big team objective. Why remove things that you know worked. Again, its baffling to me.
User 73706
Banned
Just going on record saying I have no idea how I fare competitively in RTSes but I'd love to do a HaloGAF 3v3. My special brand of hawk rush-scented craziness has to be seen to be believed.
Twilight Gap
Member
Specifically this part, there are so many maps that could play well for 1-sided gametypes. Why remove them?
A lot of things that increase the game's longevity and keep people's attention just aren't there...
Silly.Mikey
Banned
I have no idea, and before the game came out i never would have though of not being able to play them. Who would take away options i thought? Well apparently, 343 would.
Twilight Gap
Member
We should look at this with the right mindset though.
343 isn't really going through coding taking out things that we like. I'd venture to say 65% of Halo 4's issues are the result of prioritization elsewhere. They focused on one thing, and as a result couldn't do something else. Another 25% may be things that were cut because they [seemingly] didn't work, like what we heard about the Falcon. But I imagine that also could have been a matter of opinion.
But there is the 10% where they consciously chose not to do it, like Capture the Flag settings. While I appreciate their transparency, I can't help but feel unsettled by it. The fact that they chose not to have a toggle bothers me more than the settings themselves.
That's a bummer.
So, for those of you who seemed like they cared about my One Act play Contest:
We did not advance. We went, acted our hearts out, and performed in the loving memory of a former student who lost their life in an unfortunate car accident a little over a month ago. She was with us, and guided us to be the best show there.
I am very sad we didn't advance, we had everyone from every other school tell us we would go on to region. The judge had never directed one act and this was his first time judging. He didn't know what he was doing and might as well have told us that.
The two shows that advanced were The Miracle Worker (Smithson Valley High School) and We Live Here (Judson High School). New Braunfels High School (us) was Lend Me a Tenor, and Canyon High School's rendition of All About Agatha. Canyon's wasn't great, I didn't see the SV show and Judson's was absolute shittt.
We didn't get a negative note like all the other schools did during critique and we were the only ones who got a standing ovation.
And we DIDN'T freakin' advance...
TL;DR: We lost, but we were not beaten.
We did not advance. We went, acted our hearts out, and performed in the loving memory of a former student who lost their life in an unfortunate car accident a little over a month ago. She was with us, and guided us to be the best show there.
I am very sad we didn't advance, we had everyone from every other school tell us we would go on to region. The judge had never directed one act and this was his first time judging. He didn't know what he was doing and might as well have told us that.
The two shows that advanced were The Miracle Worker (Smithson Valley High School) and We Live Here (Judson High School). New Braunfels High School (us) was Lend Me a Tenor, and Canyon High School's rendition of All About Agatha. Canyon's wasn't great, I didn't see the SV show and Judson's was absolute shittt.
We didn't get a negative note like all the other schools did during critique and we were the only ones who got a standing ovation.
And we DIDN'T freakin' advance...
TL;DR: We lost, but we were not beaten.
Bogey On My Six
Banned
Tawpgun, can you please ask the panel why they keep going to CA. It's so bad.
Twilight Gap
Member
Y U NO COME TO ATLANTA
Bogey On My Six
Banned
Wtf is this?
Silly.Mikey
Banned
We should look at this with the right mindset though.
343 isn't going through coding taking out things that we like. I'd venture to say 75% of Halo 4's issues are the result of prioritization elsewhere. They focused on one thing, and as a result couldn't do something else. Another 15% may be things that were cut because they [seemingly] didn't work, like what we heard about the Falcon. But I imagine that also could have been a matter of opinion.
But there is the 10% where they consciously chose not to do it, like Capture the Flag settings. While I appreciate their transparency, I can't help but feel unsettled by it. The fact that they chose not to have a toggle bothers me more than the settings themselves.
I completely understand prioritization. Ive worked in gaming companies for a long time and i know sometimes you have to cut your losses to make the release date. But you know what, COD BO2 added a shitload of options, a theater mode that puts Halos to shame, an app thats a lot better than Halos as well, nicer menus, a revamped load-out system, more maps, and they had to do this for multiple systems. 343 had one system to work with, had a long ass time to develop the game, already had an engine to work with, and this is what we got. An unfinished product. Excuses are not acceptable at this point.
The Henery
Member
Infinity Slayer
Patched Bungie's last Halo game so people could enjoy a more classic style of Halo. Didn't put the options in their own Halo.
Twilight Gap
Member
Well, yes. If you get a good vantage point and the right AA, you can sit in one spot for the entire game. Power weapons come to you, enemies walk into your line of sight, rinse and repeat.
It may as well be an RPG.
Still don't disagree, but I'd be a lot more halcyon about it if they'd at least explain to us what happened.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Tawpgun try and confuse them and tell them your physical age is 21. You were in womb alive for 9 months, That makes you 21 in my book big guy!
Actually, I'd prefer they didn't prioritize MP. The only good Halo's were the rushed ones where they didn't have time to fuck everything up. Hell, most of the old-school people working on Halo now do everything they can to distance and backpedal themselves from the best Halo game there was. Why would I want them spending more time ruining it?
At this point I'd rather they let some intern do the weapon balancing and then never touch it again. Like the proverbial monkey throwing darts, at least we'd have a better chance of getting a good MP Halo than we do now. The more time inept people tinker with something the greater the chance it sucks.
If they didn't prioritize MP maybe we'd still have static weapon respawns, or powerups spawning on the map, or no loadouts, or primary weapons that shot straight, or no sprint.
Twilight Gap
Member
Was referring to 343 coming to the DEEP SOUTH
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Thats fine. To me honestly, i don't need to hear the excuses. Do or not not and they did not. Just don't have it happen again is how i see it.
haha I never looked at it like that. Interesting to say the least.
Twilight Gap
Member
I believe we call this 'overcooking', 'overthinking', less is more, etc.
And I mostly agree. I think we just need people who know what needs to be done to go in there, do it, and then never look back. Sometimes it feels like the meal was cooked and then other people came and microwaved it to make it hotter.
Not really excuses. More of "This is what we wanted to do, this is what happened instead, and this is what we're going to do about it in the future".
That answers half the threads on the internet.
Could be worse, my school placed last.
Steelyuhas
Member
Tawpgun babby joke
Maybe we're different fans of what Halo is, but stealth plays a factor in the Halo I like (a small part, but fighting for powerups and weapons is what makes this game great; no necessary action of putting so many on the map). Granted a lot of that has been taken away due to changes since H2, but in CTF and Assault primarily, getting the camo was something that enabled a player to access the base a bit easier if he/she planned accordingly. This is on a 30 second interval so it had to be done fast, and executed properly otherwise you were toast. No activating you camo on request, none of it spawning super fast, and just getting the battle won so you can acquire the powerup. Same goes for the OS.
It was slightly facetious, but it really is how I feel because I have absolutely no confidence in the people working on it. Sure, if we had a development team who actually understands that great balance is done from the top down, not the bottom up, then I would love for them to spend time on it. However, since we have a team that wants to make Call of Duty in slow motion, then I'd rather they have about 30 seconds to touch the Halo formula rather than 3 years.
I've always been of the opinion that Bungie and 343 have an absolutely fantastic team of artists, programmers, etc., but they don't have a good multiplayer balance team. Like I said, the Halo formula of a simple-yet-elegant sandbox balanced around a skill-based utility weapon was a mistake to these people. Something they never wanted or intended. So the base gameplay wasn't something they designed and they simply don't understand why it worked, even though they are unfortunately in charge of it's safekeeping.
What do I care if they now have more tools to tweak weapon balance? These are the same people who had even more powerful tools for 3+ years and they churned out this garbage. Have they all suddenly changed their very understanding of balance in 5 months? Are they going to drastically alter a sandbox they've spent years building and defending? No, so it's meaningless and just a way for them to slide a few levers without making any fundamental changes to a broken system.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Twilight Gap
Member
That's getting rid of options again. Both Jetpacks and player-controlled Camo have been with Halo since Halo 2, so they're not exactly new ideas.
We just need to get them to work properly with Halo. Whether that's as Powerups, AAs, or Equipment is a matter of which crowd you're catering to. Default should be good for everyone.
Sometimes, balance means addition by subtraction. If overshield and camo weren't sacred in their original form, why are they sacred in their new form, especially when we consider how regressive it is for gameplay?
Removing jetpacks would allow for better level design and more intelligent gameplay all around. Again, addition by subtraction.
This "catering to multiple crowds" BS isn't working, which is why Halo is dying.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Camo and Overshield were always a big part in Halo ever since the first game. People just dont like getting owned by an invisible guy with a shotgun.
Twilight Gap
Member
Would you mind clarifying? I'm not sure if you're saying OS and Camo were always bad or not.
The way I see it, we should make use of what we have to the best of our ability. Because when we cut things, somebody is affected.
Keep AAs, Equipment, Powerups or whatever, but have them vary by game mode, map, and playlist. No Camo on this map, no Jetpack on that map, no OS on this map, etc. It's always been like that with powerups, equipment, weapons, and vehicles, and I don't see a reason why it can't apply to AAs, Perks, or whatever else.
I despise Jetpack, but there are times where it is useful and there are people who have fallen in love with it. I can't impose my opinions on them, but we can find a way for it to work out for both of us. There's no way I'm going to like every aspect of a game, and there's no reason every aspect of the game needs to be on the map at the same time. All Exile needs is a Mantis and Wraith to fit that bill.
I don't know what you're trying to say. I never said Camo and OS weren't always a big part of Halo. In fact, they were much bigger in earlier Halo's than they are now. I guess I worded that poorly.
I don't mean cut Camo/OS, I meant return them to their original form as powerups on the map. Again, I worded that poorly.
I'm not saying these things aren't useful; I'm looking at what they actually add to the depth and the gameplay. Of course loadouts are useful, but I don't think they are balanced in the sense of the overall gameplay.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
What? There are people who believe OS and Camo should be removed from Halo even as powerups?
That's a new one ferry lol
We share the same belief on this. I would rarely consider it a good idea to completely remove something from the game. Instead, restrict them to Custom Games. Same thing with nerfs.. I hate nerfs, especially when weaker things should be buffed or simple tweaks can be made elsewhere to balance something. Example: Boltshot. It didn't need a nerf, it just needed to be removed from loadouts.
That's a new one ferry lol
We share the same belief on this. I would rarely consider it a good idea to completely remove something from the game. Instead, restrict them to Custom Games. Same thing with nerfs.. I hate nerfs, especially when weaker things should be buffed or simple tweaks can be made elsewhere to balance something. Example: Boltshot. It didn't need a nerf, it just needed to be removed from loadouts.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
We're exactly on the same wavelength. Completely agree.
Twilight Gap
Member
That's why I wasn't sure if he made a typo or not. Powerups have been with Halo since before it was even called Halo.
The original post you quoted said to return powerups to their original form, and then you said that was removing options. That's where my post came from.
I disagree that we need to get the camo-on-demand to work with Halo when we can just remove that bad idea and go back to how it was originally.
Hydranockz
Member
Awesome so far. Seeing many cobras.
I don't believe they should be removed, but never placed in the way they were on Guardian for example. They should always be placed in a neutral area which both teams can access within the same time frame. I hated that Guardian allowed one team to control both camo and OS.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Yes but that's exactly what i first said. Expect in my "version" of the game, we have the option for both. So like he said, you have some gametypes one way, some gametypes the other and this way you please most people.
You have a game that evolves without completely annihilating what it was.
Twilight Gap
Member
Oh. I wholeheartedly agree. But there are those guys who love the Camo AA, so at least leave the option in there for their custom games or niche playlists.
I personally hate camo, but I've seen fun customs that have made good use of it. If Halo is truly about customization, then they should be able to do that. Just keep things that don't work well with others out of default matchmaking playlists. I think "going back" is just as bad as "going forward and forgetting where you came from".
I think that's mainly because they're being built to work for all maps and game modes, and that isn't always the case. One AA could ruin the way a map plays completely (which is usually Camo or Jetpack).
They need to be tailored.
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