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Halo |OT15| Beta-tested, GAF approved

Halo 4 not having a beta was a criminal mistake.

Halo 5 needs a beta and it needs wide community feedback before launch so we don't get infinity bullshit anymore.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
Picked a random page from the Reach beta thread.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393414&page=237

These two posts brought a wry smile

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21077655&postcount=11843
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21077713&postcount=11849

In fact it's kind of sad reading the crazy amount of hype for the Reach beta before it released. Read the optimism back then and compare it to now.

Why aren't I listening to Sage apologizing for the beta on my iTunes yet?

:lol Yeah but the posts you highlighted are also good, who would have thought Jetpack really makes a return :/ Such a shitty thing.

And how shitty Arena was in the first seasons
 

Akai__

Member
Ok? I fail to see what's so offensive about that.

I can understand, that someone, who is handicapped, could be offended by this, but to be honest, we don't know how those people feel about their situation, so I would be very cautious about stuff like this.
 
I'm calling bullshit on calling that image offensive.

The symbol is internationally recognized as a symbol for accessibility and, more importantly: barrier-free design. That was the intent, and a rational person should have no issue understanding exactly what Josh meant. After this stupid political-correctness uproar, he had no choice but to apologize, but in my opinion he should have just locked the thread.

It's not about people in wheelchairs. It's not about people with disabilities. It's about barrier-free and accessible design. Everyone else can just fuck off with their pedantry.
 
WAIT.

There isn't a scheduled release for this year...

BECAUSE THE HALO 5 BETA FOR THE 360 IS THIS FALL AND THE FINAL GAME WILL SHIP THE YEAR FOLLOWING!

IT ALL MAKES SENSE

THE NUMBERS MASON
 

IHaveIce

Banned
I'm calling bullshit on calling that image offensive.

The symbol is internationally recognized as a symbol for accessibility and, more importantly: barrier-free design. That was the intent, and a rational person should have no issue understanding exactly what Josh meant. After this stupid political-correctness uproar, he had no choice but to apologize, but in my opinion he should have just locked the thread.

It's not about people in wheelchairs. It's not about people with disabilities. It's about barrier-free and accessible design. Everyone else can just fuck off with their pedantry.

Yeah just locking the thread would have been the worst thing to do and would make him look even worse, I hope you understand that.


I won't comment on this thing, because like Croatia said I can't understand how he feels and he is right, such a sign has no relation to Halo at all, they could have used a better image, Josh excused himself and now it is done.

WAIT.

There isn't a scheduled release for this year...

BECAUSE THE HALO 5 BETA FOR THE 360 IS THIS FALL AND THE FINAL GAME WILL SHIP THE YEAR FOLLOWING!

IT ALL MAKES SENSE

THE NUMBERS MASON

Uugh Beta on 360 again? Still bad framerate, no dedicated servers and stuff? No thanks
 
It's demeaning because spartans can do/overcome everything. handicap people have trouble with every day tasks that most people trivialize.

Nope.

Sure you can perceive it like that if your obsessed with being PC but in reality what it is is a global symbol for accessibility being modified to reflect that Halo 4's goal was accessibility. Anything else is conjecture added with the intent of deformation.
 

Madness

Member
Halo 4 not having a beta was a criminal mistake.

Halo 5 needs a beta and it needs wide community feedback before launch so we don't get infinity bullshit anymore.

Halo 4 could have had a beta on haven, exile and abandon. Exile would be BTB Infinity, Haven would be 4v4 Infinity but also oddball or KOTH, and Abandon would have been 2 flag CTF.

Pretty shitty variants and maps I know, but a beta would have shown them and more importantly us, just how broken some of the stuff is. They could have taken feedback from us in this thread or Waypoint.
 

Madness

Member
It's demeaning because spartans can do/overcome everything. handicap people have trouble with every day tasks that most people trivialize.



Check your privilege.

Ok I was agreeing with you until your privilege remark. I hate that shit. And Evil even had a post regarding it. You can say check your privilege to almost anyone. It's a way to dismiss valid discussion or complaints. Here is Evil's post on how people keep bringing privilege into every argument whether it's race, gender, equality, immigration etc.

"This phenomenon seems to dominate talking points lately internet-wide; the inevitable rebuttal for anything in gender or race or cultural issues discussions is that someone's perspective is unfavorably colored by their position of privilege, as a cis person or a male or a caucasian or a person living in a first world country, for example.It's inherently ad hominem. Seems to mainly be useful as a reductive gesture of hostility that doesn't have any place in reasoned debate, but I see it being used frequently by people otherwise seeming intent on civil discourse. "
 
CylyGMI.png
Now there's a radical thought. Why didn't anyone here suggest-- oh, wait.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Symbol_of_Access

The symbol is often seen where access has been improved, particularly for wheelchair users, but also for other disability issues.

I don't think the use of the spartan in a wheelchair was offensive so much as it was clumsy. To me it basically implies that being a BK is a 'disability' and Halo 4 improved access for BK's by letting them see through walls, giving them a melter of worlds AR and handing them Incineration Cannons from the sky. And camo. Josh has been a decent bloke about it by apologising and flagellating himself publicly and which he didn't really have to do.
 
While he mentioned wanting to make Halo more accessible in the talk, what exactly was so inaccessible about it in the first place? We're talking about a gaming landscape where a MOBA is the most active game in the world, what is the learning curve of Halo?

I'm sorry but if weapon spawns are something that make Halo inaccessible, then your problem is that it's an M rated game. Maybe notch it down to C if you're afraid of your userbase being incapable of learning a map while still targeting an 18+ demographic.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
Weird that this global logo for accessability wasn't used by other companies for their games... Well they probablysaw it could be taken wrong.


but hey "I can just fuck off"


Nice shit Greencastle.
 
It's a privilege to walk, talk, & see. Have you ever thought how much your life would change to lose just one of those & how peoples perception of you would change?

Completely Irrelevant to the point. This has nothing to do with Personal Privilege. Nothing about that image undermines, mocks or taunts those with a disability. Google Image Search "Accessibility" the first page is filled with images of the ISA. Its symbol is synonymous with accessibility. It symbolizes access without barriers. Which is very apt with the Goal of Halo 4. Halo for many people had preexisting barriers that hindered newcomers success.

  • Static power weapon spawns required map knowledge
  • Slower respawn times served as buffers between action in which players could recoup and regain ground
  • Locked spawn weapons often gave players weapons which they either did not prefer or could not put to effective use

Its something the hardcore communities thrived from but for the casuals it was certainly a access barrier.

Your view in this is clouded behind political correctness. Get a survey group and prove that the modified ISA is in fact offensive then we can talk but all you currently have is straw man "privilege" arguments and "but you do not suffer a disability so you don't know the feels"

Everything beyond the intent of it being a visual aid promoting accessibility is you and others adding your own intent to wrongfully shine a poor light on 343i and Josh. Its borderline character assassination.
 

Duji

Member
While he mentioned wanting to make Halo more accessible in the talk, what exactly was so inaccessible about it in the first place? We're talking about a gaming landscape where a MOBA is the most active game in the world, what is the learning curve of Halo?

I'm sorry but if weapon spawns are something that make Halo inaccessible, then your problem is that it's an M rated game. Maybe notch it down to C if you're afraid of your userbase being incapable of learning a map while still targeting an 18+ demographic.
This is exactly what I thought. LoL has a very steep learning curve yet it's the most played game. Halo, at its core, is one of the easiest and most simple shooters around. Everyone starts with the same weapon, secures the power weapons that spawn in the same place every time, and the goal is to secure those weapons and outperform the other team. The simple fact that you have to customize your weapons/killstreaks/deathstreaks in CoD make that game have a much steeper learning curve. I have no idea where they are collecting their data from. Who are these focus groups?

And if they really wanted the noobs to have a better chance at getting the power weapons, all they had to do was put waypoints on them and show everyone where they spawn in the pregame lobby. Yes, they do show the weapon waypoints but it's all ruined by the random drops.
 
Lol, someone in a wheelchair is offended by a symbol that's universally classified as "handicapped"? That's typical. He should bring the Waypoint users to court. It'll be just as silly as half of the lawsuits I read about.
 
Lol, someone in a wheelchair is offended by a symbol that's universally classified as "handicapped"? That's typical. He should bring the Waypoint users to court. It'll be just as silly as half of the lawsuits I read about.

its kinda offfensive but not that offensive.

More like he tried to express some people have more hard times (lol?) playing the game than the average player.

Rented a BF3 server for a week. Feel free to join anytime!

GT: Foxtrot H4

w-why?
 
This is exactly what I thought. LoL has a very steep learning curve yet it's the most played game. Halo, at its core, is one of the easiest and most simple shooters around. Everyone starts with the same weapon, secures the power weapons that spawn in the same place every time, and the goal is to secure those weapons and outperform the other team. The simple fact that you have to customize your weapons/killstreaks/deathstreaks in CoD make that game have a much steeper learning curve. I have no idea where they are collecting their data from. Who are these focus groups?

And if they really wanted the noobs to have a better chance at getting the power weapons, all they had to do was put waypoints on them and show everyone where they spawn in the pregame lobby. Yes, they do show the weapon waypoints but it's all ruined by the random drops.
Nah, they clearly have the right idea. Dilute the game with superfluous mechanics like AAs, loadouts and sprint, then fiddle around with otherwise straightforward gametypes like CTF by adding bizarre one-off rules like an infinite ammo pistol that's slightly stronger than normal ones when you pick up the flag that's covered with super glue.

I mean, if weapon spawns were really, truly impenetrable to whatever audience they want to target, there are so many ways to tackle that in a way that keeps the game functionally identical. You could add a Gears-like function that overlays the screen with a press of a button and shows where the weapons are, take out AAs and use that button for it. You could also show the overhead of the map in the pregame lobby as you said.

Also next time around, find those people that you took the suggestions from to add gameplay altering progression from and do the exact opposite of what they want.
 

Pop

Member
So we'll see social and rank playlist split by H6?

and to think no one at 343i could come up with that before launch. However, CSR won't be the ranks we're looking for.
 

I havent watched much of the GDC talk, but are these actual quotes?

Halo 3 was a game I played with people who didnt touch video games to people who where hyper competitive and had 50's in MLG and shit. Neither group thought the game was too simple or too complex, the mechanics of the game allowed it to work well depending on the group playing it. Matchmaking allowed those groups to stay at opposite polar ends of matchmaking. The only reason my casual friends sometimes struggled is because I threw them into games with the hyper competitive lol.

Halo Reach and 4 do not appeal to either group.
 

Ken

Member
Why have the bullshit behind them?

Covenant military leaders for covie bad guys.
Forerunner Knights that are a "hive mind" of multiple humans for the forerunner big bads"

How bout they're robots that want to kill stuff but that's not nice so you need to go shoot (and maybe slice) them to make the earth people happy the end.
 

Madness

Member
It's a privilege to walk, talk, & see. Have you ever thought how much your life would change to lose just one of those & how peoples perception of you would change?

Once again, you missed my counter. It's reductive to conversation because you dismiss any/all points as privilege. You can say almost anything is a privilege these days. Being right handed, being alive, being thin, blah blah.

I'm done, I'm not going say anything else on this matter. There was a thread specifically created by EviLore to address this.
 

Ramirez

Member
Picked a random page from the Reach beta thread.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393414&page=237

These two posts brought a wry smile

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21077655&postcount=11843
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21077713&postcount=11849

In fact it's kind of sad reading the crazy amount of hype for the Reach beta before it released. Read the optimism back then and compare it to now.
Damnit, I knew one of those would be me.
 
I havent watched much of the GDC talk, but are these actual quotes?

Halo 3 was a game I played with people who didnt touch video games to people who where hyper competitive and had 50's in MLG and shit. Neither group thought the game was too simple or too complex, the mechanics of the game allowed it to work well depending on the group playing it. Matchmaking allowed those groups to stay at opposite polar ends of matchmaking. The only reason my casual friends sometimes struggled is because I threw them into games with the hyper competitive lol.

Halo Reach and 4 do not appeal to either group.

343 thinks consumers know what they want. In 2006, who in the hell was asking for a progression rank and one shot kill game? You have to innovate to be the next big thing, not grab mechanics from popular titles and mash them up into a Halo theme.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
It's demeaning because spartans can do/overcome everything. handicap people have trouble with every day tasks that most people trivialize.

Check your privilege.
I like you. The more HaloGAFers with even an ounce of empathy, the better. It's been pretty lacking around these parts. Stick around.
 
I was doodling some ideas to try and make all the Forerunner classes more recognizable. Bear with me here. I based them on the Seven Archangels which are a prominent theme throughout several Western religions, more specifically the Eastern Orthodox tradition. The seven are Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Selaphiel, Jegudiel, and Raguel. Each Forerunner class has several attributes:

Angel - The angel they're based on.
Class - Their formal "title" in native Ecumene, with an -or suffix.
Nickname - A less formal title for easy identification, such as "Sentinel" or "Knight."

Note that in Latin, "Arch" means Chief. "Arch" is the formal descriptor, while "Chief" is used for the nicknames. For example, an Arch-Governor is a "Chief Knight," or a Promethean Knight Major. Each enemy class has two rankings, save for Sentinels and Watchers.

Selaphiel is known for prayer and sacrifice, so I assigned that title to the Aggressors, or Sentinels. There are three ranks. Minor (Oscillator), Major (Oscillator Alt-Fire and Shielding), and Revival. A Revival Sentinel, similar to a Pawn in chess, is speedy and does not attack you. Instead, it makes a beeline for the "digital soul" left behind by the Knight farthest from it. If it makes it to the soul, it will initiate the revival process Halo 4-era Watchers do now. Watchers can no longer revive enemies.

Raphael is known as a healer, so naturally I gave that title to Venerators, or Watchers. They cannot perform attacks, and instead come in 5 varieties to accompany the 5 Knight classes. Active Camo, Overshield, Damage Boost, Speed Boost, and Spotter. They "project" this ability onto their Knight, meaning it's incredibly visible. Knights get Damage Boost, Boltshots (Snipers) get Overshield, Hackers (Melee) get Speed Boost, Phasers (Grenadiers) get Active Camo, and Dreadlocks or Dread Turrets (Heavy, almost immobile) get Spotters. Spotters don't give their Knight a powerup; instead, Spotters will constantly follow you and give an annoying droning noise to alert your presence to enemies. In addition to this, however, they're used as "guiding systems" for the Dreadlocks, given that they're turrets and all. Dreadlocks become less accurate if you kill their Watcher. Also, uniquely, Watchers operate on "prison bitch" rules - if you kill a Knight but not its Watcher, the Watcher will actually follow you and give you the powerup. You can only have one at a time, though.

aLm40cn.png


Michael is "One who is like God," or "Prince of the First Rank." That title is given to Governors, or more simply just Knights. Knights are the infamous skull-helmet thing I use here and there. Knights dual-wield Light Rifles, while Chief Knights use Phase Rifles (essentially Promethean DMRs).

Jegudiel is often depicted with a whip, or holding the Sacred Heart in his hand. As such, I give that title to Laudators, or Phasers. Phasers are grenadiers; they use a Gravity Gauntlet to get around to different positions and will throw Promethean grenades at you. They can use all the Gravity Gauntlet's features (but can't pick up weapons), meaning they can stop you from getting Rockets, stun you, etc. Chief Phasers dual-wield a Gravity Gauntlet and a Phasebuster, which is essentially a Promethean Sticky Detonator.

Uriel translates to "God is My Light" and is often depicted wielding a flaming sword, so that title is given to Persecutors, or Hackers. They start out "dormant," simply wandering the battlefield to disintegrate stray corpses, weapons, vehicles, etc. If they catch sight of you, however, they berserk and whip out an Energy Stave (literally just dual energy swords). This is their only means of attack, but they should be regarded as giant Brute Chieftans - they have fairly high health but it's possible to sidestep their attacks. Chief Hackers triple-wield: one Energy Stave (two swords), and two alt-fire Energy Staves (which are just Promethean Gravity Hammers).

Gabriel is known for blowing his horn to signal the apocalypse, and is inspiration for the Tenor, or Boltshot. Boltshots are Promethean Snipers, wielding a Crossbolt with deadly efficiency - a Crossbolt is essentially Halo CE's beam towers out of the campaign, but turned into a handheld, instakill weapon on par with the Spartan Laser. Unlike Jackal Snipers they constantly run around the battlefield to cling onto walls, trees, ceilings, etc. to get vantage points and rarely stay in the same place. The charging noise of the Crossbolt is incredibly loud and you're going to want to find cover when it starts, so the symbolism is probably the most accurate out of the bunch. Chief Boltshots dual-wield Crossbolts.

Raguel is known for balance, harmony, vengeance and justice, which is why he's provided inspiration for the Orator, or Dread-Class Turret. Or, more simply, the Dreadlock. The Dreadlock is the heavy or "Hunter" of the Promethean classes, but with more firepower compensated by having less movement. A Dreadlock is practically the size of a Mantis, and is by far the largest infantry-class enemy. Dreadlocks use dual Pulse Beams (the large beam turrets you see in campaign all the time), with an incredibly deadly level of accuracy if their Spotter is left intact. Once their Spotter is destroyed, they become much more manageable. Once the Spotter is destroyed, one of two turrets will emerge from the Dreadlock's body cavity and go behind it in attempt to cover 360 degrees. If you can damage this turret enough, it will "detach" from the main Dreadlock, and you can use it against the enemy. Chief Dreadlocks will dual-wield Incinerators, which are basically the Incineration Cannon, but converted into a mounted Turret with up to 5 shots.

As far as rank identification goes, each Knight class has a Minor color and a Major color. Minors project a halo in front of their helmet, similar to the Binary Rifle Knights in Halo 4 or the Prophets in past games. It is a universal indicator of a minor-ranked Knight. Major-rank enemies will have a vibrant, circular aura surrounding their entire helmet, similar to the "halos" used in the Renaissance era. For example:

640px-Simon_ushakov_last_supper_1685.jpg


Note that the helmet designs are nowhere near meant to be finalized, they're just mockups.

1NheP9W.png

5bCzJqs.png


And keep in mind the names of the seven archangels wouldn't be mentioned at any point in the game, of course. It's just meant to provide some clever touches.
 

Dongs Macabre

aka Daedalos42
I was doodling some ideas to try and make all the Forerunner classes more recognizable. Bear with me here. I based them on the Seven Archangels which are a prominent theme throughout several Western religions, more specifically the Eastern Orthodox tradition. The seven are Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Selaphiel, Jegudiel, and Raguel. Each Forerunner class has several attributes:

Angel - The angel they're based on.
Class - Their formal "title" in native Ecumene, with an -or suffix.
Nickname - A less formal title for easy identification, such as "Sentinel" or "Knight."

Note that in Latin, "Arch" means Chief. "Arch" is the formal descriptor, while "Chief" is used for the nicknames. For example, an Arch-Governor is a "Chief Knight," or a Promethean Knight Major. Each enemy class has two rankings, save for Sentinels and Watchers.

Selaphiel is known for prayer and sacrifice, so I assigned that title to the Aggressors, or Sentinels. There are three ranks. Minor (Oscillator), Major (Oscillator Alt-Fire and Shielding), and Revival. A Revival Sentinel, similar to a Pawn in chess, is speedy and does not attack you. Instead, it makes a beeline for the "digital soul" left behind by the Knight farthest from it. If it makes it to the soul, it will initiate the revival process Halo 4-era Watchers do now. Watchers can no longer revive enemies.

Raphael is known as a healer, so naturally I gave that title to Venerators, or Watchers. They cannot perform attacks, and instead come in 5 varieties to accompany the 5 Knight classes. Active Camo, Overshield, Damage Boost, Speed Boost, and Spotter. They "project" this ability onto their Knight, meaning it's incredibly visible. Knights get Damage Boost, Boltshots (Snipers) get Overshield, Hackers (Melee) get Speed Boost, Phasers (Grenadiers) get Active Camo, and Dreadlocks or Dread Turrets (Heavy, almost immobile) get Spotters. Spotters don't give their Knight a powerup; instead, Spotters will constantly follow you and give an annoying droning noise to alert your presence to enemies. In addition to this, however, they're used as "guiding systems" for the Dreadlocks, given that they're turrets and all. Dreadlocks become less accurate if you kill their Watcher. Also, uniquely, Watchers operate on "prison bitch" rules - if you kill a Knight but not its Watcher, the Watcher will actually follow you and give you the powerup. You can only have one at a time, though.

aLm40cn.png


Michael is "One who is like God," or "Prince of the First Rank." That title is given to Governors, or more simply just Knights. Knights are the infamous skull-helmet thing I use here and there. Knights dual-wield Light Rifles, while Chief Knights use Phase Rifles (essentially Promethean DMRs).

Jegudiel is often depicted with a whip, or holding the Sacred Heart in his hand. As such, I give that title to Laudators, or Phasers. Phasers are grenadiers; they use a Gravity Gauntlet to get around to different positions and will throw Promethean grenades at you. They can use all the Gravity Gauntlet's features (but can't pick up weapons), meaning they can stop you from getting Rockets, stun you, etc. Chief Phasers dual-wield a Gravity Gauntlet and a Phasebuster, which is essentially a Promethean Sticky Detonator.

Uriel translates to "God is My Light" and is often depicted wielding a flaming sword, so that title is given to Persecutors, or Hackers. They start out "dormant," simply wandering the battlefield to disintegrate stray corpses, weapons, vehicles, etc. If they catch sight of you, however, they berserk and whip out an Energy Stave (literally just dual energy swords). This is their only means of attack, but they should be regarded as giant Brute Chieftans - they have fairly high health but it's possible to sidestep their attacks. Chief Hackers triple-wield: one Energy Stave (two swords), and two alt-fire Energy Staves (which are just Promethean Gravity Hammers).

Gabriel is known for blowing his horn to signal the apocalypse, and is inspiration for the Tenor, or Boltshot. Boltshots are Promethean Snipers, wielding a Crossbolt with deadly efficiency - a Crossbolt is essentially Halo CE's beam towers out of the campaign, but turned into a handheld, instakill weapon on par with the Spartan Laser. Unlike Jackal Snipers they constantly run around the battlefield to cling onto walls, trees, ceilings, etc. to get vantage points and rarely stay in the same place. The charging noise of the Crossbolt is incredibly loud and you're going to want to find cover when it starts, so the symbolism is probably the most accurate out of the bunch. Chief Boltshots dual-wield Crossbolts.

Raguel is known for balance, harmony, vengeance and justice, which is why he's provided inspiration for the Orator, or Dread-Class Turret. Or, more simply, the Dreadlock. The Dreadlock is the heavy or "Hunter" of the Promethean classes, but with more firepower compensated by having less movement. A Dreadlock is practically the size of a Mantis, and is by far the largest infantry-class enemy. Dreadlocks use dual Pulse Beams (the large beam turrets you see in campaign all the time), with an incredibly deadly level of accuracy if their Spotter is left intact. Once their Spotter is destroyed, they become much more manageable. Once the Spotter is destroyed, one of two turrets will emerge from the Dreadlock's body cavity and go behind it in attempt to cover 360 degrees. If you can damage this turret enough, it will "detach" from the main Dreadlock, and you can use it against the enemy. Chief Dreadlocks will dual-wield Incinerators, which are basically the Incineration Cannon, but converted into a mounted Turret with up to 5 shots.

As far as rank identification goes, each Knight class has a Minor color and a Major color. Minors project a halo in front of their helmet, similar to the Binary Rifle Knights in Halo 4 or the Prophets in past games. It is a universal indicator of a minor-ranked Knight. Major-rank enemies will have a vibrant, circular aura surrounding their entire helmet, similar to the "halos" used in the Renaissance era. For example:

640px-Simon_ushakov_last_supper_1685.jpg


Note that the helmet designs are nowhere near meant to be finalized, they're just mockups.

1NheP9W.png

5bCzJqs.png


And keep in mind the names of the seven archangels wouldn't be mentioned at any point in the game, of course. It's just meant to provide some clever touches.

Ooh, how about making it so the different classes have some special abilities? (eg. Hackers can disable your AA for a certain amount of time, etc) Perhaps limit these to higher classed ones?
 
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