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Halo |OT15| Beta-tested, GAF approved

M

Madness

Member
I don't know, I bet Jess, Frankie, possibly Ellis read it at the very least. What more can you ask from them? These aren't things one person can change. I bet there are internal meetings happening regularly wondering what they can do better for Halo 5.

It was a great post, and it's true, you will need to have multiplayer down solid within the first few weeks of launch nowadays. Not to keep bringing Gears 2 up, but that game did a lot of harm to the series and the longevity of its multiplayer. The whole first month, and upto 6 months later, matchmaking had problems.
 
T

Tunavi

Banned
Who cares if 343 is listening? It only matters if they start implementing changes based on what they actually hear.

In 5 months we have seen the boltshot nerfed by 10 percent, a blank space to forge on, throwdown, and red x's.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Tunavi said:
Who cares if 343 is listening? It only matters if they start implementing changes based on what they actually hear.

In 5 months we have seen the boltshot nerfed by 10 percent, a blank space to forge on, throwdown, and red x's.
Click to expand...

Doubles was the first playlist to offer static weapon spawns and 5 second respawn. Forge test playlist had static weapon spawns before it.
 
C

Computron

Member
StalkerUKCG said:
Core Halo 4 is great. stripe away the garbage intended to bring in a new crowd and you have possibly the best Halo game to date. Play one of those modded zero sprint gametypes with actual respawn times and weapons on map on haven and its amazing.
Click to expand...

Does anyone want to try this right now?

I am itching to play Halo, but I haven't loaded up MM (Well, past staring at the playlists numbers) since the last DLC.
 
S

StalkerUKCG

Banned
Tashi said:
And if when Halo 5 is announced and 343 says, "we listened to all the feedback and here's Halo 5" and it's actually based on the feedback that was gathered, then what?
Click to expand...

Being entirely realistic do you honestly think that 343i are going to create a Halo 5 that the community wants?

They knew exactly what state Halo was in after Reach. Population was on the decline. AA's were panned community wide and people hated the departure from Halo 3. They disliked the randomness that was created from Loadouts yet Halo 4 shipped with an even bigger step towards randomness with customizable loadouts, AA's were retooled and buffed with perks. Ordnance in its entirety (both personal and global) created even more uncertainty to top all this off you had No options at launch to play an even remotely classic gametype. Instant respawns were in every playlist and the departure was even further for Halo 3.

Not to mention Certain Affinities involvement after the community had expressed its distaste for the content they made.

This is completely ignoring the fact they shipped a title missing legacy features, with broken meta systems in place like file sharing and what was essentially a step backwards for forge.

Halo 4 is basically what happens if you try to make Reach worse. They did everything possible so the fans would have a negative opinion of they game. Long standing communities like the speedrunners got the shaft. MLG was ignored so they could force some useless Virgin media tournaments on to the community.

Much of this was in all likely hood unintentional but that creates a bigger issue it means 343i are not in touch with the fanbase enough to deliver a game they want.

I have the up most respect for the employees at 343i and I'm devoted to the series. I can forgive hiccups but that's what reach was. Honestly what did they expect? Who signed off on these changes thinking it's what Halo needed.
 
M

Madness

Member
Tunavi said:
Who cares if 343 is listening? It only matters if they start implementing changes based on what they actually hear.

In 5 months we have seen the boltshot nerfed by 10 percent, a blank space to forge on, throwdown, and red x's.
Click to expand...

Not to join team slrp, but it's honestly more than we got with any other release no? Aside from a few weapon tweaks, removal of certain weapons or power-ups, I don't know if we got anything much? Sure the map packs were much better.

I'm just saying, we need to be realistic. We are 5 months post launch, at a time when there are new consoles on the horizon. As horrible as it sounds no?

I'm curious to see how the new weapon tuning tools they added will be utilized. And yes I know, it's two steps backward, one step forward but still.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
Tunavi said:
red x's.
Click to expand...

I heard they didn't exactly work though. They despawned if you insta-spawned and followed the ragdoll. That doesn't really count...

StalkerUKCG said:
Being entirely realistic do you honestly think that 343i are going to create a Halo 5 that the community wants?

They knew exactly what state Halo was in after Reach. Population was on the decline. AA's were panned community wide and people hated the departure from Halo 3. They disliked the randomness that was created from Loadouts yet Halo 4 shipped with an even bigger step towards randomness with customizable loadouts, AA's were retooled and buffed with perks. Ordnance in its entirety (both personal and global) created even more uncertainty to top all this off you had No options at launch to play an even remotely classic gametype. Instant respawns were in every playlist and the departure was even further for Halo 3.

Not to mention Certain Affinities involvement after the community had expressed its distaste for the content they made.

This is completely ignoring the fact they shipped a title missing legacy features, with broken meta systems in place like file sharing and what was essentially a step backwards for forge.

Halo 4 is basically what happens if you try to make Reach worse. They did everything possible so the fans would have a negative opinion of they game. Long standing communities like the speedrunners got the shaft. MLG was ignored so they could force some useless Virgin media tournaments on to the community.

Much of this was in all likely hood unintentional but that creates a bigger issue it means 343i are not in touch with the fanbase enough to deliver a game they want.

I have the up most respect for the employees at 343i and I'm devoted to the series. I can forgive hiccups but that's what reach was. Honestly what did they expect? Who signed off on these changes thinking it's what Halo needed.
Click to expand...

The biggest problem out of this is the features that were missing were community oriented. Without those, players are unable to connect and share content, and that creates a rift. Even with Reach's issues, we still had a ranking system and were still able to share maps and gametypes to keep customs going. As The Henery said, after the first few weeks without these, lose interest.
 
H

heckfu

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
It's my nature to be a cynical bastard, but I also have a pretty wide reasonable streak. I see the exchange as going like this:

The Henery: *great post*

Ghaleon: Hey 343, please read this. *links great post from The Henery*

343: Okay, thanks.

Ghaleon: Cool, thanks.

Heckfu: lol *flings poo*

I'm not expecting anything other than someone at 343 to read it. That's all I was hoping for. I think that's all you can reasonably expect from a forum post. I'm glad they acknowledged the post and replied in a public way that put a lot of eyes from the community on it. I didn't expect a fucking miracle from it. Geez.
Click to expand...

lol i get real one time in this thread and get accused of 'flinging poo'. let me try again:

great job tweeting something!

edit: i know you have a problem with me, and that's fine! trust me, it's ok, a lot of people do, but tashi agreed with me as others did it's a PR response...if you're going to take me to task over this then at least include everyone instead of singling me out.
 
M

Madness

Member
Tunavi said:
"Good enough."
Click to expand...

No I understand, I've made my frustrations with 343 and Halo 4 perfectly clear, and I know it sounds like 'good enough' but what can you do?

Some of these things could have ultimately been avoided with a beta, with more knowledge from 343. Heck for almost a year before launch, we had great posts about how this game would be another Reach.

I don't know where I'm trying to go with it, just saying, that everything since launch, is a foot in the right direction, even if it's to get back to where they should have always been.
 
M

MaximumFlipFlop

Banned
The more time I spend away from Halo the more it becomes appearant what a solid series of FPS the entire franchise is (Halo 4 included). It makes me sad the no games recently have grabbed me. BF3 and BlOps were the closest so far, but they still contain some annoying gameplay quirks (suppression fuckkkkkkkkkkk). I don't think I will ever stop being a Halo fan for the simple reason of it being so fun just to load up a random Campaign mission from Halo 1 - ODST and enjoy myself. It's engrossing to play because the simplicity of the older titles allowed you to just load them up, feel familiar, and sink into the experience.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
GhaleonEB said:
It's my nature to be a cynical bastard, but I also have a pretty wide reasonable streak. I see the exchange as going like this:

The Henery: *great post*

Ghaleon: Hey 343, please read this. *links great post from The Henery*

343: Okay, thanks.

Ghaleon: Cool, thanks.

Heckfu: lol *flings poo*

I'm not expecting anything other than someone at 343 to read it. That's all I was hoping for. I think that's all you can reasonably expect from a forum post. I'm glad they acknowledged the post and replied in a public way that put a lot of eyes from the community on it. I didn't expect a fucking miracle from it. Geez.
Click to expand...

Lol. Hyperbole much?

I'm sorry but as great as Henery's post is, it's soething we've seen in HaloGAF alone for fucking years man. You know this.

They don't change a thing. Ever. To expect even something is quite possibly silly too. You could have linked to Kyle's OP and they'd be expected to respond in a near identical manner.

Lol
 
R

Ramirez

Member
GhaleonEB said:
It's my nature to be a cynical bastard, but I also have a pretty wide reasonable streak. I see the exchange as going like this:

The Henery: *great post*

Ghaleon: Hey 343, please read this. *links great post from The Henery*

343: Okay, thanks.

Ghaleon: Cool, thanks.

Heckfu: lol *flings poo*

I'm not expecting anything other than someone at 343 to read it. That's all I was hoping for. I think that's all you can reasonably expect from a forum post. I'm glad they acknowledged the post and replied in a public way that put a lot of eyes from the community on it. I didn't expect a fucking miracle from it. Geez.
Click to expand...

Get shit on Heckfu.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
StalkerUKCG said:
Being entirely realistic do you honestly think that 343i are going to create a Halo 5 that the community wants?

They knew exactly what state Halo was in after Reach. Population was on the decline. AA's were panned community wide and people hated the departure from Halo 3. They disliked the randomness that was created from Loadouts yet Halo 4 shipped with an even bigger step towards randomness with customizable loadouts, AA's were retooled and buffed with perks. Ordnance in its entirety (both personal and global) created even more uncertainty to top all this off you had No options at launch to play an even remotely classic gametype, Instant respawns were in every playlist and the departure was even further for Halo 3.

Not to mention Certain Affinities involvement after the community had expressed its distaste for the content they made.

This is completely ignoring the fact they shipped a title missing legacy features, with broken meta systems in place like file sharing and what was essentially a step backwards for forge.

Halo 4 is basically what happens if you try to make Reach worse. They did everything possible so the fans would have a negative opinion of they game. Long standing communities like the speedrunners got the shaft. MLG was ignored so they could force some useless Virgin media tournaments on to the community.

Much of this was in all likely hood unintentional but that creates a bigger issue it means 343i are not in touch with the fanbase enough to deliver a game they want.

I have the up most respect for the employees at 343i and I'm devoted to the series. I can forgive hiccups but that's what reach was. Honestly what did they expect? Who signed off on these changes thinking it's what Halo needed.



Do you know what this means?
Click to expand...

There's so much generalization in this post it's actually pretty crazy.

Here's what I think. 343 knows all the feedback that it receives from the community, we don't. We don't have numbers, we never have and we probably never will (Accurate sales month over month, accurate population numbers etc). I'm not denying evidence, I'm not denying that it seems as though most of HaloGAF has many serious issues with Halo Reach and Halo 4. I'm not denying that that there are less people playing Halo now than there were years ago. I'm just saying that we don't know the whole picture.

As far as what changes they will and won't do, I don't know. I really can't predict.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
Mothafuckas still play Halo?

edit: god i love gizoogle

It aint nuthin but mah nature ta be a cold-ass lil cynical bastard yo, but I also gots a pimpin' wide reasonable streak. I peep tha exchange as goin like this:

Da Henery: *pimped out post*

Ghaleon: Yo 343, please read this. *links pimped out post from Da Henery*

343: Okay, props.

Ghaleon: Def, props.

Heckfu: lol *flings poo*

I aint expectin anythang other than one of mah thugs at 343 ta read dat shit. Thatz all I was hopin for. Shiiit, dis aint no joke. I be thinkin thatz all you can reasonably expect from a gangbangin' forum post. I be glad they bigged up tha post n' replied up in a hood way dat put a shitload of eyes from tha hood on dat shit. I didn't expect a gangbangin' fuckin miracle from dat shit. Geez.
Click to expand...
Homeboyd said:
I'm going to start posting TBBT gifs if you guys don't cut it out.
Click to expand...

Bazooper
 
O

Obscured

Member
If there were an Halo MP only xbla game, would some people feel cheated they didn't get a campaign and complain about the lack of a 'full' game?

(Halo:Arena seems like a good name, but then you probably lose half your intended audience, but Halo:1-50 doesn't really roll of the tongue)
 
E

EagleBurnn

Banned
Tashi said:
There's so much generalization in this post it's actually pretty crazy.

Here's what I think. 343 knows all the feedback that it receives from the community, we don't. We don't have numbers, we never have and we probably never will (Accurate sales month over month, accurate population numbers etc). I'm not denying evidence, I'm not denying that it seems as though most of HaloGAF has many serious issues with Halo Reach and Halo 4. I'm not denying that that there are less people playing Halo now than there were years ago. I'm just saying that we don't know the whole picture.

As far as what changes they will and won't do, I don't know. I really can't predict.

Als
Click to expand...

In 2006, no one was asking for a progressions system and one-shot kills. And IW still made CoD4. How much I hate the CoD series now, CoD4 was a bold move. IW's last game was game of the year (CoD2) and was highly acclaimed. Who would not make a direct sequel to that success?

IW went in a different direction and pushed the industry forward. 343 needs to do the same. If they gather what consumers think they want, then of course it's basically going to be space CoD because CoD is what's popular right now.

343 needs to be bold and push the industry forward, not grab features from popular titles and mash them up into a Halo themed multiplayer experience. I don't think Halo is "CoD" in any way. It's still Halo, but there really wasn't anything innovative about it. It's like they were just taking the safe route the whole time.

I'm sure their data said feature x & y were going to make Halo a success, but going by data isn't what always makes a product successful. You have to do something new and innovative that consumers and competition would have not of thought of, thus making them want to copy you. 343 needs to take the lead in the industry, not wait to see what other developers do with their games and study such.
 
M

Madness

Member
EagleBurnn said:
In 2006, no one was asking for a progressions system and one-shot kills. And IW still made CoD4. How much I hate the CoD series now, CoD4 was a bold move. IW's last game was game of the year (CoD2) and was highly acclaimed. Who would not make a direct sequel to that success?

IW went in a different direction and pushed the industry forward. 343 needs to do the same. If they gather what consumers think they want, then of course it's basically going to be space CoD because CoD is what's popular right now.

343 needs to be bold and push the industry forward, not grab features from popular titles and mash them up into a Halo themed multiplayer experience. I don't think Halo is "CoD" in any way. It's still Halo, but there really wasn't anything innovative about it. It's like they were just taking the safe route the whole time.

I'm sure their data said feature x & y were going to make Halo a success, but going by data isn't what always makes a product successful. You have to do something new and innovative that consumers and competition would have not of thought of, thus making them want to copy you. 343 needs to take the lead in the industry, not wait to see what other developers do with their games and study that.
Click to expand...

This... As long as they keep the core tenet of Halo. That it's the battlefield that determines the nature of the battle, not the menu, equal starts, two men enter, the better man leaves, the lesser man is waiting to respawn etc. they can do anything else they want.

Edit: I really want to see how gameplay in Destiny is. Whether it will really take the genre forward.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
EagleBurnn said:
In 2006, no one was asking for a progressions system and one-shot kills. And IW still made CoD4. How much I hate the CoD series now, CoD4 was a bold move. IW's last game was game of the year (CoD2) and was highly acclaimed. Who would not make a direct sequel to that success?

IW went in a different direction and pushed the industry forward. 343 needs to do the same. If they gather what consumers think they want, then of course it's basically going to be space CoD because CoD is what's popular right now.

343 needs to be bold and push the industry forward, not grab features from popular titles and mash them up into a Halo themed multiplayer experience. I don't think Halo is "CoD" in any way. It's still Halo, but there really wasn't anything innovative about it. It's like they were just taking the safe route the whole time.

I'm sure their data said feature x & y were going to make Halo a success, but going by data isn't what always makes a product successful. You have to do something new and innovative that consumers and competition would have not of thought of, thus making them want to copy you. 343 needs to take the lead in the industry, not wait to see what other developers do with their games and study such.
Click to expand...

..was going to make this post, but you beat me to it


To add to that, I'd like to see who was asking for the things Josh Holmes said we wanted in that GDC presentation and how many people were asking for said changes.

I never received any e-mails. No pop-ups or surveys to fill out directly from 343. Nothing asking me what I wanted, yet every single forum I've lurked seemed to have a general consensus on what defines core Halo and what needs to remain consistent from game to game. So where do they get their information from?


Also, numbers don't mean diddly squat. Slap Halo on a hot piece of garbage, throw in some familiarity and you're sure to sell millions. Truth be told, if they just listened to the fans and understood there was everything to gain by making Halo Halo again, then we may just be in a happier place right now.

I want Camo to stay an AA in MM with no powerup replacement for Halo 4. -said no fan ever


I feel like Halo and Nintendo fans are in the same boat; so much potential with their beloved franchises but are usually left disappointed or wanting more. How the hell does Nintendo ship one of its most popular multiplayer franchies (Smash) with such shitty online (Brawl)? ;'[
 
S

Speedy Blue Dude

Banned
In all honesty, it amazes me that Halo:Reach had a higher and more stable Online Population than Halo 4. What was Halo:Reach at in 6 months after release? 120,000? What was it after a year? 90,000? Then a steady 60,000 until Halo 4 was out.

Halo 4 really is pathetic. :/
 
G

Ghazi

Member
wwm0nkey said:
Posted on the Murder Miners OT, but Murder Miners will probably be getting on map weapons in the update next week.
Click to expand...

lol more support than a first party, unlimited funding, Xbox selling game.

This is getting a little embarrassing at this point.
 
M

Madness

Member
Tunavi said:
They only had $300 million, cut them some slack
Click to expand...

I also think at one point they had over 400+ employees working on the game. Don't know how many were contract workers, or if outsourced deva also contributed to that number. And if you read the digital foundry article, it also speaks about how 343 was able to get key Microsoft guys to help with the engine, guys who developed dx11 etc.

But it's like Frankie said, it's tough building a new studio, hiring the correct guys. I bet they've cut a lot of the dead weight, and now the remaining team has developed a rapport, gotten their hands dirty so to speak. Look at how much Ellis and his team were able to turn around Spartan Ops, I bet the UI guys will definitely do a 180, hopefully sound direction, they bring someone in who will intricately work with the studio to develop music which fits the action happening on screen. Also need the monks and possibly more classic Halo music pieces, updated if need be.

Let's see how Halo 5 turns out, especially on new hardware.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
wwm0nkey said:
So due to them adding the option to disable weapons some people have been disabling everything and have turned this game into a boxing game.....it actually works surprisingly well since the game has a dodge feature and crouching helps the punches miss as well.

Feels like a Halo 2 custom game lol
Click to expand...

Saw this from the Murder Miners thread and 343 should look to MM for their next game. Such a fun game with so many parts yet to be released.

Halo needs to have insane Custom Games options and an overhaul to how players match up with each other. Imagine playing that no sprint gametype whenever you wanted with a constant stream of players without waiting weeks/months for developers to update playlists with incremental changes? Yeh. Matchmaking is archaic.

wwm0nkey said:
If you thought boxing sounded cool you all need to try Infection CTF, its a stupid amount of fun.

But yeah Murder Miners is a perfect example of how just adding a few options causes awesome new ones to arise.

Seriously though, Infection CTF!

Oh! Also if the on map weapons make it into the new update so will the Hookshot!
Click to expand...

Hookshot!

Using the Pistol in that game is way more fun/satisfying than any weapon since Halo 2, except maybe the Beta Plasma Launcher B]
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
UNKNOWN iXi said:
Saw this from the Murder Miners thread and 343 should look to MM for their next game. Such a fun game with so many parts yet to be released.

Halo needs to have insane Custom Games options and an overhaul to how players match up with each other. Imagine playing that no sprint gametype whenever you wanted with a constant stream of players without waiting weeks/months for developers to update playlists with incremental changes? Yeh. Matchmaking is archaic.
Click to expand...

If you thought boxing sounded cool you all need to try Infection CTF, its a stupid amount of fun.

But yeah Murder Miners is a perfect example of how just adding a few options causes awesome new ones to arise.

Seriously though, Infection CTF!

Oh! Also if the on map weapons make it into the new update so will the Hookshot!
 
E

EagleBurnn

Banned
Madness said:
I also think at one point they had over 400+ employees working on the game. Don't know how many were contract workers, or if outsourced deva also contributed to that number. And if you read the digital foundry article, it also speaks about how 343 was able to get key Microsoft guys to help with the engine, guys who developed dx11 etc.

But it's like Frankie said, it's tough building a new studio, hiring the correct guys. I bet they've cut a lot of the dead weight, and now the remaining team has developed a rapport, gotten their hands dirty so to speak.

Let's see how Halo 5 turns out, especially on new hardware.
Click to expand...

Said it before and I'll say it again. Halo 5 is the last chance for the series to be on the top of the FPS genre. 343 has every excuse (now the experience) to make Halo 5 different. Before, Bungie has embedded features into the series where if you take them out, it's going to seem like less of a Halo game to the common consumer, hence the evolution of equipment>AA.

A new Halo for a new generation. If Halo 5 just adds to the features of Halo 4 making for a more complicated experience, then god speed and it will be clear that 343 will stay on that route. Good or bad, do something drastic and new, 343. It's better than going down quietly.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
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