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Halo |OT5| Believe, Again

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The Librarian

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Apr 22, 2008
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I dunno if there's such a thing as a "skilled AR user," but there's definitely a benefit in knowing when to use the AR in close-range combat.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Apr 24, 2008
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So you're telling me someone picking up Halo for the first time is going to kill the #1 player in the world if they both have ARs? No, there is some skill involed, and yes, not all of it has to do with the AR itself. The AR does take a small bit of skill, but CQC is a skill as well. How you approach an AR user, etc.

Therefore yes, there is a difference between a skilled player with an AR and a regular or new player with an AR.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Nov 8, 2011
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So you're telling me someone picking up Halo for the first time is going to kill the #1 player in the world if they both have ARs? No, there is some skill involed, and yes, not all of it has to do with the AR itself. The AR does take a small bit of skill, but CQC is a skill as well. How you approach an AR user, etc.

Therefore yes, there is a difference between a skilled player with an AR and a regular or new player with an AR.
I'm saying a skilled player won't be using an AR.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Apr 24, 2008
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I'm saying a skilled player won't be using an AR.
That's the issue I see, the AR should be the go-to weapon in CQC. Same as the BR is for mid range, and DMR for longer. I just find it funny that people laugh when the AR is brought up, that right there shows that the weapon needs some tweaking. I'm anxious to see how it is in H4.

Edit: Sorry for the DP!
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Nov 8, 2011
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A starting weapon shouldn't only be viable in one range (even if it's really powerful in it) like the AR. And the AR shouldn't be powerful in all ranges either because it's too easy to use. Either make it more powerful and a pick-up or make it harder to use but more effective at all ranges likes the BR/DMR.
 

Fuchsdh

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Jan 14, 2012
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That's the issue I see, the AR should be the go-to weapon in CQC. Same as the BR is for mid range, and DMR for longer. I just find it funny that people laugh when the AR is brought up, that right there shows that the weapon needs some tweaking. I'm anxious to see how it is in H4.

Edit: Sorry for the DP!
It might just be you and me, but I agree. I want every weapon to have its role.
 

789shadow

Banned
Sep 30, 2009
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You see, people don't actually want the AR to be useful because they don't actually care about weapon balance.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
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It might just be you and me, but I agree. I want every weapon to have its role.
Yup. That's a big issue in Halos so far, there's always a weapon without clear or proper role, or underperforming weapons (or some are overperforming in some roles).
 

789shadow

Banned
Sep 30, 2009
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Yup. That's a big issue in Halos so far, there's always a weapon without clear or proper role, or underperforming weapons (or some are overperforming in some roles).
The big issue has been the fact that every game other than 2 has had it's precision weapon be so overpowered as to make any other weapons pointless, because the Pistol/BR/DMR is better than it in every situation.
 

Karl2177

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Jul 3, 2010
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Spray weapons shouldn't beat a skilled user with a precision weapon in a straight up 1v1 IMO.
v That.

At mid range or further...
^ That.
Wonder if when the new Xbox hits if I can play CEA at a locked 30FPS.
Is it the Xbox that cannot handle the processing of all of the Forge objects or is it the engine that cannot handle it? Because Reach Forge could technically be very viable in the future with different specs for the future generations if it is simply the machine limitations.

I was playing Halo 3 co-op with Squidhands earlier today and I had my mind blown by a path I never knew was there. In the last part of the barracks, you can open a side door that brings you behind the Chieftain. It was a holy shit moment for me.
Play more Halo 3 scrub! It's hands down the best Halo campaign gameplay wise.

A starting weapon shouldn't only be viable in one range (even if it's really powerful in it) like the AR. And the AR shouldn't be powerful in all ranges either because it's too easy to use. Either make it more powerful and a pick-up or make it harder to use but more effective at all ranges likes the BR/DMR.
Now you're starting to see things the way I see them, but you still have a bit further to go. What I want for an optimized sandbox(oh lord how many times have I preached this) is where each weapon has a niche range and function. Let's take for example, the Focus Rifle. In my ideal sandbox, it's optimum range would be extremely long and since it is plasma based it would be good at stripping shields. It can still work in shorter ranges, but it isn't the best weapon for the situation.

You can use a shotgun to kill at sniper range, but it's not going to be very effective. You could use an AR or an SMG, but again it's not going to be too effective. You could use a pistol, BR, or DMR to kill at range; and it will be fairly effective. You could use a sniper at sniper range and based on your skill, it should be the best weapon for that scenario. You can also go backwards too. You can use a sniper at extremely close range, but chances are you are going to get slaughtered. That's one reason why I like the size of the sniper scope, is that it gives the player using the long range weapon in a CQC encounter a bit of a handicap.
 

Fuchsdh

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I'd say despite being a 3-shot the AR wasn't that weak in CE (mostly due to map designs). The BR is what changed things up--without dual wielding there was no reason to use something like the AR. Bungie made some decent strides in trying to make it more useful, increasing its effective range slightly while lowering the magazine size, but I don't think they really did enough--I still don't feel like I "know" when is the optimal range to pull out the AR or if I'm better off trying to score a headshot up close.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Jun 16, 2008
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I'm not for each weapon having a specific role unless it's a power weapon or specialty gun(needler, plasma pistol). I think that there should be a good amount of all purpose weapons that are different but equal. I don't want it to be, I have this gun in this space so I win. Because then people won't leave that space so they always have the advantage. I like that in H4 there are a good amount of viable starting weapons. You pick and choose depending on which style you like. DMR, BR, Carbine, Light rifle and whatever else there is. They should be very similar in their roles and effectiveness.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
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The big issue has been the fact that every game other than 2 has had it's precision weapon be so overpowered as to make any other weapons pointless, because the Pistol/BR/DMR is better than it in every situation.
Actually, no. IMO. The problem is, non-precision weapons are too weak for their intended roles and with slowish weapon switch, people have no reason to use them in CQB.
Or maybe it is really about the switch time, AR in Halo 3 was pretty good (though BR could still win against it but it required BR to get the first shot or some help from a 'nade or something).
I say buff underperforming weapons, don't nerf "overperforming" ones, kill times do not need reduction.

NVM this

I'm not for each weapon having a specific role unless it's a power weapon or specialty gun(needler, plasma pistol). I think that there should be a good amount of all purpose weapons that are different but equal. I don't want it to be, I have this gun in this space so I win. Because then people won't leave that space so they always have the advantage. I like that in H4 there are a good amount of viable starting weapons. You pick and choose depending on which style you like. DMR, BR, Carbine, Light rifle and whatever else there is. They should be very similar in their roles and effectiveness.
Yeah, that's okay too. As long as AR and Storm Rifle are useful in general as it is a starting weapon, not just at CQB, considering the game already has at least three weapons made specifically for CQB (Shotty, Scattershot, Sword)
 

The Librarian

Banned
Apr 22, 2008
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Play more Halo 3 scrub! It's hands down the best Halo campaign gameplay wise.
Indeed it is, but I really enjoy discovering something new on repeated runs. It's one of the marks of a great game that, despite playing it dozens of times, there are still secrets left to uncover. This is true for all the Halo campaigns.

We played Sierra 117, Crow's Nest, and Tsavo Highway – all the levels I've completed for my Legendary run so far. Completely different experience in co-op, and so much fun. The vehicle battles on Tsavo Highway especially highlight the dynamics of co-op combat. I was driving around in a Wraith, Squid manned Choppers and Warthogs. I'll have to go back and complete The Storm tonight.
 

Fuchsdh

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I'm not for each weapon having a specific role unless it's a power weapon or specialty gun(needler, plasma pistol). I think that there should be a good amount of all purpose weapons that are different but equal. I don't want it to be, I have this gun in this space so I win. Because then people won't leave that space so they always have the advantage. I like that in H4 there are a good amount of viable starting weapons. You pick and choose depending on which style you like. DMR, BR, Carbine, Light rifle and whatever else there is. They should be very similar in their roles and effectiveness.
I dunno. I keep coming back to CE, and what made me really enjoy the campaign and multiplayer was the stripped down, finely honed application of its sandbox.

Playing Anniversary lists makes me think that maybe the pistol's role should be more powerful than the BR/Carbine/midrange weapon (if not 3sk than definitely 4sk) but to erode its viability at longer ranges. That way you don't feel limited by a shallow clip and you don't end up with the really uninteresting desperate pistol spamfests of Reach.

EDIT: Beefing up the pistol would really require the really stupid melee animation to remain, that way AR guys could have a chance to close the distance and pummel while pistol users would rely more on a quick tap to the skull.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
19,089
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AR is useful in that awkward distance where it's too far for melee and too close to be safe with a BR.
Is it? BR can be used that range as well, though it is slightly unwieldy but a good player can do it. With team work AR is useless. With good placement of a 'nade, AR is useless. Why i should waste a weapon slot for a weapon that has way too limited functionality? It is better i carry a plasma pistol or a power weapon in that slot.
EDIT let's not even talk about Reach...

I dunno. I keep coming back to CE, and what made me really enjoy the campaign and multiplayer was the stripped down, finely honed application of its sandbox.
That "finely honed" sandbox consisted nothing but using the pistol and power weapon on Halo PC MP. Guess 3-shot pistol and mouse aiming don't really go togheter.
 

Fuchsdh

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Jan 14, 2012
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Is it? BR can be used that range as well, though it is slightly unwieldy but a good player can do it. With team work AR is useless. With good placement of a 'nade, AR is useless. Why i should waste a weapon slot for a weapon that has way too limited functionality? It is better i carry a plasma pistol or a power weapon in that slot.
EDIT let's not even talk about Reach...



That "finely honed" sandbox consisted nothing but using the pistol and power weapon on Halo PC MP. Guess 3-shot pistol and mouse aiming don't really go togheter.
Prolly not. I'm not so foolish as to think that "make Halo 4 go back to Halo: CE's sandbox" is some wonderful idea, just that limiting weapons to make it clearer what weapons are best for what purpose is a good idea.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Jun 16, 2008
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Is it? BR can be used that range as well, though it is slightly unwieldy but a good player can do it. With team work AR is useless. With good placement of a 'nade, AR is useless. Why i should waste a weapon slot for a weapon that has way too limited functionality? It is better i carry a plasma pistol or a power weapon in that slot.
EDIT let's not even talk about Reach...



That "finely honed" sandbox consisted nothing but using the pistol and power weapon on Halo PC MP. Guess 3-shot pistol and mouse aiming don't really go togheter.
Well I'm not a good player so I have no idea about the BR and DMR effectiveness against the AR in any range.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
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Well I'm not a good player so I have no idea about the BR and DMR effectiveness against the AR in any range.
You gotta be sarcastic here.

It didn't even take much effor to get a kill with BR at close range VS AR user in Halo 3 (assuming good network conditions of course). AR was excellent if the opponent didn't notice or react to you fast enough, though you could do the same thing BR so why bother with AR...

EDIT ok, your K/D is worse than mine in Reach so if use that as "skill meter", you're indeed worse than me. But i'm not sure if'd call you a bad player regardless.
 
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I guess I meant more to say a skilled player using an AR should beat a skilled player with a long range weapon at close range. Not necessarily someone skilled with the AR, but skilled in general.

There's a reason long range weapons shouldn't dominate at all ranges. It would make for a pretty unfun game.
Goes back and plays Halo 1 through 3. Comes back to say you're wrong.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
19,089
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Goes back and plays Halo 1 through 3. Comes back to say you're wrong.
Shooting AI at range isn't really fun, in no Halo does the AI react well against long range attacks.
Personally i don't find shooting players at long range much fun in Halos, i relatively short range engagements.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
19,089
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Jackal snipers don't play that.
Jackal snipers are not that hard to deal with (<Legendary) if you know where they are. Considering you get a sniper nearly always before such encounters, they're rather trivial.
On Legendary they're not much worse except it is more annoying.
 

Rand0m TAG

Member
Jul 17, 2011
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Shooting AI at range isn't really fun, in no Halo does the AI react well against long range attacks.
Personally i don't find shooting players at long range much fun in Halos, i relatively short range engagements.
Maps need to be made properly, not weapons needing to be dumbed down
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Oct 23, 2009
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You gotta be sarcastic here.

It didn't even take much effor to get a kill with BR at close range VS AR user in Halo 3 (assuming good network conditions of course). AR was excellent if the opponent didn't notice or react to you fast enough, though you could do the same thing BR so why bother with AR...

EDIT ok, your K/D is worse than mine in Reach so if use that as "skill meter", you're indeed worse than me. But i'm not sure if'd call you a bad player regardless.
His K/D is that low because all he plays is MLG. He's being sarcastic. He's one of the best players in HaloGAF, that was his point through sarcasm.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Apr 18, 2010
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His K/D is that low because all he plays is MLG. He's being sarcastic. He's one of the best players in HaloGAF.
Yeah, i kinda suspected that. And then i realised to check Halo 3 stats.
And i know K/D is not really a good way to determine skill.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I just want to tell everyone that I booked my flight to Seattle today! WOOT!
Congrats, dude!

I said this like 30 pages ago, but if someone's selling PAX tickets, I might be interested in buying'em.

Also: lol @ AR debates.
 
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