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[enigmatic_alex44]

I get that some people love a challenge, they'll always choose the hardest difficulty in a game, or gravitate towards challenging series like the Souls games. What I don't understand is how that's considered "fun"?

I don't have a lot of time for games these days, so the bit of time I do get, I like to be guaranteed that I'll make some progress if I have an hour here or there to play. I think the last game where I chose a difficulty above "normal" was playing through Kingdom Hearts 1 on "Proud" on the PS2 lol. Coming up on yet another near impossible boss, or whatever challenge a game throws at you, or losing all your progress because the game is overly difficult sounds rage inducing honestly. Is it worth the frustration? What's the appeal (if you don't care about trophies/achievements to show off)? Like I can't imagine playing something for 2 hours, then losing all your progress and having to repeat the same section over and over again (losing all your souls in Demon's Souls for example, first and last game of that series I played). I'd quit! Never mind my friend that got so mad once he flung his Xbox down his drive way and it broke into pieces. The only series I stick with despite the frustration these days is the SMT games. At least there you can generally level up if you get stuck like most RPGs. Something like Ninja Gaiden 2 or Bloodborne? Forget it.

The kind of challenge I like is something like Mario 3D World or New Super Luigi U on Wii U, where the base game is a decent challenge, but going for all collectibles or the extra levels at the end like Champion's Road is for those looking for something more. Or super bosses in RPGs that are totally optional and not tied to the main story like the Weapons in Final Fantasy. Games like Bayonetta where the normal difficulty is just right also appeal to me. Something like Ninja Gaiden 2 where I have to struggle just to get through the main game though on normal? Not my cup of tea.

For those of you that like it hard, what is the appeal? Discuss.

 

[Steez]

Challenge is fun for a lot of people. Ain't much more to it.

 

[icespide]

there's a difference between challenging and hard

 

[thekonamicode]

In Souls games, progress is measured by knowledge of the enemies and your environment. Who cares if you just permanently lost 1.2 million souls. Souls are cheap.

 

[Bronetta]

Overcoming challenging obstacles feels like a bigger accomplishment.

Im not saying the difficulty should be torture but are you gonna feel more satisfied for killing a boss thats a total pushover or one that can stand its ground and give you a run for you4 money.

 

[Manu]

You're never gonna lose 2 hours of progress in a Souls game. It's a dumb exaggeration.

At most, you can lose 15, 20 minutes.

Back in the NES and Genesis days, losing your last life on level 10 meant restarting the whole game.

 

[Lord Azrael]

there's a difference between challenging and hard

What? Not really...

 

[LegendofLex]

I actually really enjoy challenging and stressful games because they give me huge hormonal highs and tremendous visceral satisfaction when I succeed, with relatively light real-world stakes if I fail.

They're also much more fun to replay, because even as your skills increase and your understanding of the game makes it easier, the game isn't totally trivial to complete once you know the ins and outs if it's actually physically challenging.

Meanwhile, less challenging games where the payoff comes from the story and not the challenge have a tendency to literally put me to sleep.

 

[RRockman]

some people like it hot really. there is a feeling of real accomplishment when you beat something that's really troublesome. I still like to play IWBTG from time to time.

 

[upandaway]

I can't understand how a game can be fun if it's not challenging, so I guess we cancel each other out

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

Git Gud

What? Not really...

I believe there is a difference between those as well.

 

[ViolentP]

Challenge is relative to user. What may be impossible for one may be fun for another.

 

[HeeHo]

I get a mini-high from doing something particularly challenging. I feel quite good about myself if I beat a boss first try in Nioh or Dark Souls. Yeah, if you lose all your exp it sucks and can even make you mad but I guess it's kind of addicting like gambling. For some people it's exciting to risk something.

 

[pizzacat]

I like to beat people until they quit or get better

 

[bemusedchunk]

What? Not really...

Yes there is.

 

[p_xavier]

I play games mostly for story/character development so the easier the better.

 

[pretty done]

How is the base game of Mario 3D World a decent challenge? Anyone at any age could beat that game.

Also OP, hard games are so much more fun than easy games to me. I'd rather not be playing anything at all if the game is brainless to the point where I don't even have to think about what I'm doing or inputting. Case in point, I found Tropical Freeze far better than any of the Mario games I've played from the last 10 years. Retro respects the player's intelligence with their level design.

 

[Poppy]

meh its all relative. i heard shin megami tensei 3 was supposed to be really hard for the series but i actually find it pretty easy breezy, just some occasional bosses to think about your comp and playstyle for and occasionally getting trashed by mudo skills

and stuff like bloodborne you think is hard initially, like i got slam jammed by cleric beast a bunch at first and thought my life was over and the game sucked, but eventually i beat orphan of kos and i feel like a cool guy and love bloodborne now!

a game should be hard but give you plenty of opportunity to succeed, and reward you for getting better with the feeling of achievement and accomplishment in taking those opportunities. thats why spelunky is the greatest game of the last ten years

 

[MegaSackman]

Chellenging: Souls, Bloodborne, Doom. Games tightly designed around their mechanics to provide a challeging experience.

Hard: The Last of Us Grounded, Uncharted Crushing. Modes not designed around the game, so it can be frustrating to overcome encounters. Not fun (some people still like this things but they're probably masochits).

Definitions invented by me.

 

[Crayolan]

Getting good is fun. Seeing yourself slowly make more and more progress on something really tough until you can finally beat it after a huge struggle is immensely satisfying.

 

[ItsTheNew]

I would say challenging games are fun, because it adds to the tension of what you're going up against

 

[Apoleptica]

I had a lot of fun playing through super meat boy, similarly I'm having a ton of fun playing through dark souls 3 right now. I think it depends entirely on your mindset.

 

[The Third Heat]

I hate hard games, but I get that people really do enjoy a challenge. I like feeling powerful in games and I know that makes me a scrub, but I don't care. We all play for different reasons and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

If in a shooter going from normal to the hardest mode means you die in 2-3 shots them yeah that's not fun. Regardless if you want that achievement/trophy

 

[keraj37]

I don't agree with thread title.

It all depends what one is looking in gaming.
Personally I love retro gaming as the games before were much more challenging.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

It's a thrill to defeat something that you were previously intimidated by or felt was impossible. It's a massive surge of satisfaction. The journey itself to overcoming such obstacles isn't always "fun" in the traditional sense, but it's engaging and interesting. I also like the fact that challenging games, when designed properly, teach you how to become a more patient, calculated, and emotionally stable person. I genuinely believe I can handle real world stress better because of how I learned how to handle stress in a less threatening environment with video games. Teaches you how to think on your feet. There's also something to be said about how challenging games can stroke our ego's in a way that other things can't.

I like carefree fun games too, but sometimes people crave a little more out of the medium.

 

[DNAbro]

Counter point: hard games are sometimes fun. Easy games are sometimes fun. Sometimes they are not fun.

 

[Javier23]

What? Not really...

What? Of course there is.

 

[Pinko Marx]

I enjoy having a game that makes me think of new and/or strategic ways to use the tools I've been given or have specced towards.
Most of the time "Normal Mode" is so easy you can get by pretty well by lets say...Using the basic attack and one or two skills/spells in an RPG. But in hard mode, I will need to pay attention to things like enemy weaknesses or maybe make use of those Elixirs that people like to hoard (because the game never gets hard enough).

 

[bati]

http://i.imgur.com/W2WoO.jpg

I love games that reward knowledge and skill. Playing generic crap that basically plays itself isn't very stimulating.

 

[AGoodODST]

Difficulty is fun because you need to properly master the mechanics of a game to succeed.

Ninja Gaiden NES is a game I love despite its stupid, often unfair difficulty because you need to master every aspect of the game to beat it.

 

[Trouble]

Change the word 'hard' to 'punishing' and I would agree.

There are plenty of difficult games that I enjoy. I do not like games that punish you.

But to each his own. I don't like Souls games, but I know others do, so I'm glad they exist.

 

[Skyzard]

Easy games aren't fun either though. That's going to to depend on the person. It's nice to have options for everyone.

When I enjoy the game, I really appreciate a challenge. And a challenging game can make me appreciate what's there much more too.

I still pick hard sometimes, but not always. Depends on the game and if I want to take on a challenge.

 

[Syf]

I think playing a game where progress is assured is boring, for the most part. Challenges that make you get better to proceed are what make most games interesting to me

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Like I can't imagine playing something for 2 hours, then losing all your progress and having to repeat the same section over and over again (losing all your souls in Demon's Souls for example, first and last game of that series I played). I'd quit!

As long as you spend your souls regularly and right after beating bosses, you should never lose more than maybe 10-20 mins of progress in a Souls game if that. Unless you're purposefully grinding (which should have no risk of progression loss since you would be doing it in a relatively easy area), the majority of souls you gain the game should come from bosses and soul items that you discover. Remember, souls are just one form of progression in the Souls games - unlocking shortcuts & finding items & equipment are even more important and you don't lose those when you die. And even more important than those are knowledge (location of enemies, how to fight them) which you don't lose either.

I've lost WAY more progression in the SMT series (before they added Save Anywhere features in later games like SMTIV) than I have in Souls games. And just like SMT, you can grind for extra levels in games like Dark Souls & Bloodborne if you get stuck. Not only that, but you can recruit other players & NPCs to help you beat bosses if you get REALLY stuck.

 

[Woetyler]

I enjoy harder difficulties for the most part. For example, regardless of if it's a bad example or not, I've been really enjoying survival mode on Fallout 4. Certain challenging difficulties in games give you more objectives to focus on to make for a more enjoyable experience imo.

 

[Pinko Marx]

I don't see how people can have fun brainlessly bulldozing their way through a game.

 

[Sizzel]

I am a story guy - generally a super meat boy etc I am not into.best game play in the world but a shit narrative or story etc and I am out. Great narrative but shit gameplay...just short of visual novel and I will still love it. Hard games break this for me in the cases that I like the game.

For "hard" games Nioh, souls, gaiden etc there is really a sense you have done something and achieved something as opposed to mindlessly wasting your time playing video games for hours like a degenerated. Beating a hard challenge is really rewarding. Just like in life... a challenge is great..even if it knocks you back 1 or 100 times knowing what it feels like to win is so good it keeps you going and nothing beats that feeling. That being said ... super meat boy is hard and I don't paritularly like the game so I don't even care to try. Find a hard game you like the premise of and enjoy winning

 

[alexbull_uk]

I play lots of my games on the hardest difficulty available. Just feels better beating a tough game than it does beating one that offered no challenge.

 

[themaskedndi]

What? Not really...

Of course there is. In order for something to be challenging, it has to test your abilities. For something to be hard, it simply has to be difficult to do. Something that is heavily luck-based can be hard without being challenging.

I enjoy hard (well, challenging) games when they play to my strengths. I have a lot of fun playing around with well-designed puzzles and trying to figure them out. I get a huge sense of accomplishment when the solution finally clicks. If it's something I'm not particularly good at, like a twitch-based action game, I'll just play on the normal difficulty. I'm not good at it, so the additional challenge will just be a source of frustration for me.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Hard games are fun to me because learning how to overcome an obstacle is in itself fun, and the feeling of satisfaction after doing so can also be considered part of the fun, it's really not that weird of a concept...

I mean I could tell you easy games aren't fun because they barely require any input from me, but I know people still have fun with them so whatever?

Seriously, this is like saying jigsaw puzzles can't be fun because they demand that you think.

 

[Fireblend]

There's people who think asphyxiating themselves to the brink of death is fun.

Playing hard video games seems like a tame way to have fun in comparison OP

But yes, strong feelings of accomplishment are only possible through overcoming a challenge and hard games provide that.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

I don't care about the story aspect of games, so I get bored if they don't have a fair amount of difficulty.

 

[Tidalwave]

It's fun to test your abilities when you're good at playing video games and don't fail often.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

People want different feelings from playing games. For me, one of the most rewarding is overcoming an obstacle that felt challenging to me. It's the same for everyone I think, it's just that the sweet spot varies. "Hard" is a relative word. You wouldn't enjoy Mario as much if you couldn't get hurt and all of the pits were covered to protect you, right?

To me, games at their most basic are about overcoming a challenge.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

The fact that OP likes games that offer a certain challenge like Mario 3D World tells me he does know why people play on harder difficulties.
If you don't play everything on the lowest available difficulty but choose "normal" from time to time, then you get why.

 

[trixx]

Agreed. Playing through Dark souls 2, and it is not fun, just playing it cause it's entertaining. Mario Kart is fun though.

Yeah the sense of achievement is what gets me going

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Challenge is fun for a lot of people. Ain't much more to it.

Yep.

I go back and forth. I mostly loved Bloodborne and to a lesser extent DS3, but haven't had fun trying to go back and play DS1 and 2 on Steam. I'm just too busy, burnt out and stressed out for hard/challenging games right now. I just want to veg out and escape in a virtual world for a while so I'm focused on easier games that are immersive and not frustrating for now.

 

[Tain]

games being more demanding of players can make otherwise meaningless mechanics into meaningful ones, and possibly inject a level of tension that can go really well with a game's atmosphere

generally I find that action games with difficulty level options are best experienced on their higher difficulty levels, as if they have mechanics worth spending time with in the first place they'll usually hold up to the higher level of scrutiny

 

[DarthMasta]

Different people like different things, news at 11!