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[LiquidMetal14]

This is such a convoluted and frankly messed up situation for you TC.

First and foremost, why come go GAF and not check back with us? Barring the jokes and one off comments, there are many of us who are as human as you and have been through these situations. With kids or not. Take a lot of the advice to heart as it's the most blunt and what you really need to hear type of advice that anyone other than a good best friend or brother might give you.

The situation you are in does not benefit you in almost any way. Sure, the kids are the kids but I would like to disqualify them from the rationale of what you need to do because they are not your own and they simply don't deserve to not have their real dad (in some of their cases) AND you have seemingly been brought in to shore up her defenses. She has several children out of wedlock and says you are the best thing to happen. I believe that but that doesn't need to a reason for her to hook you and play your heart/mind strings.

It's time to start thinking selfishly in this case instead of seeing yourself as this 26 year old who has never had a proper relationship. YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. I'm sorry but you ran into a case that you so desperately were looking for but also ran into the worse kind of thing with the baggage physically and mentally with this current GF.

I read the post that was linked the last page around December. I'm not sure where this is going but you need to face reality and do yourself a massive favor and not let sex be the crutch of this relationship. Yes it's a dandy thing but in this case, she is maybe right to say that she is bringing nothing but sex to the relationship. It's ok for her to say that but she just told you she is shitting in your cereal and hope you still want to eat her shit cereal. How's that for an analogy of sorts.

This will not be a good thing for you long term if it's already to this point and with the children which aren't even yours. Good looking or charming or presidential or not, step up to the plate for yourself and future well being mentally and physically.

Don't wish for something to some how change the facts as they have been so far. So what you had sex 4-5 times a week and requested a shower date (lol?). This particular situation you are in is going to hurt you more than you realize. Find someone who is in a better mental place than what you have now and who doesn't just shift the burden of her own stupidity or lack of judgement on to you. That means stop paying for so many damn things. You aren't married and aren't legally obligated and if you want more of that from this particular GF/arrangement you currently are going through then you deserve any misery that comes your way.

Figure it out today and bring it to a head. Time to grow up and show how mature you can be and not be roped in with sex. For one time in this relationship, step up to the plate for own well being. This is a road that already has had landmines and if you think it's somehow magically going to disappear then you are going nowhere but to a bad place in this relationship if it continues.

Don't let her shit in your cereal anymore!

 

[royalan]

This post is hideous.

As opposed to gay men? Please, you don't choose your sexuality as an infant, and to imply that gay children (seriously, what are you taking about?) would be brought up differently than straight children is hilariously misguided.

Also, I can only assume you spoiler tagged that part of your post because you knew that was equally dumb and insulting.

This.

Stop projecting your own twisted views onto an entire section of society.

What? No. Gay men haven't been conditioned to see themselves as provider/provided-for in a typical male/male ralationship dynamic. Where are you even getting that from? Seriously, I didn't even say have the shit you just shoved into my mouth.

You can be mad if you want, but men in the US are largely conditioned to see themselves as the "providers" in a relationship.

It's why more men in this country are statistically comfortable with dating women who make less money than them, and not the opposite scenario.

It's why men in the US are more likely to seek partners who stay at home, and not the reverse.

These facts shouldn't be surprising.

 

[NeO JD]

I understand that the advice to "bail" is hard for you to hear.
It seems harsh and unfeeling. You know this woman and we don't. You have seen all the things about her that are so special.

But ..................
I will raise my hand and say "I have been there", in a very similar situation as yours
MANY guys in this thread have "been there"

There are *SO* *MANY* red flags here!
All of us in this thread are trying to help a brother avoid the type of pain that so many of us have gone through. You are obviously a good person, with so much to give.

If you stay in this relationship, you are in for a WORLD of PAIN...
Leave in as kind a fashion as you can, but please leave -- before you subject yourself to an experience that may ultimately sour you on what a "good relationship" can actually be. You deserve better than that...


(I was going to leave it at that, but I'm going to suggest one more thing: Even if you don't feel you can leave her right now, begin visualizing, in your mind, how leaving her and being apart from her might look. How that might actually work out for you.)

+1. The OP is too attached to what he thinks is his "first love" when it's obvious it's going to end badly.

 

[Deadbeat]

In a way, situations like this make me feel bad for straight men.

Spoiler

Well, not really, because situations like these are an offshoot of our largely patriarchal society that looks down on women as weaker

Because straight men have been raised to see women like this, women that can't handle themselves and literally and desperately need your support, as positives.

Like, if the shoe was on the other foot? I WISH I could go to one of my Bad Bitch friends and be like, "Hey, so I have the perfect guy I want to set you up with. He's 23 and has three kids by different women, he's in a court battle for one, and his paycheck gets decimated for child support. He's working a job, but it's not enough for him to keep his head afloat. So, you want me to give him your number?"

The answer would be HELL NAW!!

Men need to start picking partners the same way women do.

Someone call a janitor. Tumblr has sprung a leak again.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

I think asking for sex ahead of time is a bit weird, it can make it feel like a prearranged obligation rather than a spur of the moment act of passion. Especially saying things like "I'm ready now, I want to have sex." I dunno, I really don't find that appealing, just make the moves and it'll become pretty apparent.

I'm heading back to my home town in a few weeks (I moved to a new city around a month ago) so when my ex found out she said we should meet up, to which I agreed, and she then asked "are we going to have sex?", which I found to be a very strange question.

But to answer the OP, yes, one of my first GF's used sex kind of like a reward scheme, and would often withhold it if I was a bad lad. But again, it's just a bit odd arranging it ahead of time. Just let it happen when it happens, don't mark your diary for fuck's sake!

I dunno bruv, I have to book that shit these days living with someone is a bit different IMO, especially with kids I should imagine. x100 when your SO has just mutated into a crazy fundie too. I hope she's not mixing her fabrics, god would be right pissy.

 

[The Incarnation]

...right in the middle of the relationship? And also she pulls it after you 2 have had sex a bunch

Context...So me and my gf have been together 7 months now (I'm 26, she is 23)...we had sex after 5th date and have been having sex pretty regularly (avg is about 3-4 times per week)

According to her, I am the best bf and best lover by far she has ever had.

She has 3 kids out of wedlock (1 has been adopted 16 when she had him and she pays child support for, the other lives with his dad most of the time, she has a 3 year old he lives with her)

Bc of child support, her paycheck are half the size of mine, so I pay for pretty much everything when we go out, and I recently paid for her glasses and contacts

I stay at her place like 5-6 nights a week, to help with her kid. On my days off I watch him too (it's difficult...he wears her completely out

So about a week and a half ago I notice she is coming home more tired and I don't think anything of it, bc she works a lot too. So I let her nap and just watch tv. I help around the house and clean a bit, so she doesn't have to. This goes on for about 4 days. On the 4th day I tell her I want her and I to shower together, she is fine with it and says yes...then about an hour after we get back to her place, she just takes a shower on her own...when she comes out she says "sorry I just really felt gross, but don't worry, I'm still gonna take a shower with you", so an hour later, I say I'm ready and she says "i don't feel like taking another shower, I'm sorry"

Day 5 rolls around, I tell her I want some lovin tonight after work, she says yes, then when the time comes, she says I need to talk to you about something and you will probably hate me for it...so she drops that bomb saying she feels guilty everytime we have sex (even when it's her idea), she says she wants to be a better person and that she loves God (she mentioned that she believed in God a few times, but since we were having sex, I figured she was one of those who doesn't follow the no sex before marriage, since it's so common), and that she sinned a lot in her younger days (did pills bad mostly weed), partied a lot (drank, blacked out, etc...), and she just doesn't want the world to end one day soon and go to hell for all the things she does...she does a lot of good things (helps out her family a ton, is nice to just about everyone, gives money to the homeless on the streets, etc...)

I see myself marrying her one day, so I begrudgingly accepted it, right now we do everything except intercourse and oral (as I just found out last night). She said she feels bad bc sex she felt was the only thing she had to offer me and counter everything I do for her (I also let her use my car, pay her cell phone bill, gas sometimes)


My question to Gaf is, has your significant other ever pulled this on you after you 2 have already had sex a bunch? And what did you?

Says nothing, and start staying at her place, once or twice a week. You might discover that you want to be doing something else with your time at your age anyway. And of course she feels guilty. The woman has no pride. You're paying for ALL her shit. This is her way of compensating, to try and get some pride back.

You should be saying yourself that this situation is making you feel used. It might just snap her out of her bullshit.

 

[DroidDev]

In a way, situations like this make me feel bad for straight men.

Spoiler

Well, not really, because situations like these are an offshoot of our largely patriarchal society that looks down on women as weaker

Because straight men have been raised to see women like this, women that can't handle themselves and literally and desperately need your support, as positives.

Like, if the shoe was on the other foot? I WISH I could go to one of my Bad Bitch friends and be like, "Hey, so I have the perfect guy I want to set you up with. He's 23 and has three kids by different women, he's in a court battle for one, and his paycheck gets decimated for child support. He's working a job, but it's not enough for him to keep his head afloat. So, you want me to give him your number?"

The answer would be HELL NAW!!

Men need to start picking partners the same way women do.

OP, you need to read this. Stop thinking about the sex for a minute and try thinking about the entire situation you're in from a different perspective.

Right now, coming to your girl's rescue is probably giving you a nice self-esteem boost to go along with the relationship curing your loneliness. Right now, you probably feel better than you did before the relationship happened, but a relationship full of emotional manipulation and mind games is way more lonely than being single.

OP, you sound like an unselfish guy, but I think you are being used. You really need to emotionally separate yourself from the situation for a few hours and think about your relationship from an objective point of view.

Maybe I and the rest of GAF are misjudging this situation horribly, but it sure doesn't sound too good. Godspeed, OP.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Says nothing, and start staying at her place, once or twice a week. You might discover that you want to be doing something else with your time at your age anyway. And of course she feels guilty. The woman has no pride. You're paying for ALL her shit. This is her way of compensating, to try and get some pride back.

You should be saying yourself that this situation is making you feel used. It might just snap her out of her bullshit.

I'm not doubting the ability for a human being to rehabilitate or self help/improve but this case is just a mess of mind games which the TC is being put through.

Yes you can have laughs and do things and feel happy. The TC clearly has not been in many relationships if not this is his very first foray according to that linked post back from December. He is in this for all the wrong reasons. Sex and the occasional tug of the mind/heart. The cards are out and her snapping out of it is not going to hide what's within.

If she handled her end better and had her act together more then she would warrant the kind of affection from the TC's wallet, mind, and body. Now the TC is forced to beg for sex and make shower dates while she continues to shit in his cereal and he knows this. Bad on several fronts.

As I said before, I'm not saying this person is black and cold hearted but let's come down to earth and see this situation for what it is. Yes there is redeeming qualities but that doesn't disqualify what the TC is going through and who is suffering for this? The TC. He seems to be more than willing to be a puppet though and not stand up for himself.

I just want to reiterate that even if he stands up for himself and somehow changes things, the cards are all out there. It's not up to him to prove his loyalty anymore. Yes if sex is a part of it then fine. The rest honestly does not sound kosher even if she laughs at his jokes or has a nice smile. That's just not going to cut it.

It needs to come to a head or else the TC is going to be caught in a bad situation or even mentally weak enough to marry someone like this when this is the last thing the current situation calls for. The situation calls for action now and the percentage of this lasting is low and if it some how does, the girl needs to change or fix her issues drastically. Can someone just pretend that those issues don't exist? Sure but that is a time commitment. If that's the way out the TC wants to take and assumes she is going to change then he's gambling with house money on a long shot.

 

[God Dayumm]

What? No. Gay men haven't been conditioned to see themselves as provider/provided-for in a typical male/male ralationship dynamic. Where are you even getting that from? Seriously, I didn't even say have the shit you just shoved into my mouth.

You can be mad if you want, but men in the US are largely conditioned to see themselves as the "providers" in a relationship.

It's why more men in this country are statistically comfortable with dating women who make less money than them, and not the opposite scenario.

It's why men in the US are more likely to seek partners who stay at home, and not the reverse.

These facts shouldn't be surprising.

Honest question, you think OP is having a power trip where he sees himself as the provider and savior of this woman?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Honest question, you think OP is having a power trip where he sees himself as the provider and savior of this woman?

That is a small possibility and another strike against him even being in this relationship. And this person is 23. She is not Mother Theresa. She is barely even an adult in a figurative way. But that could be one of the reasons and it would be the wrong reason to be in this.

If you're going to say this then we might as well advise he TC to be a sugar daddy. Friends with benefits. Not a full blown relationship.

 

[jimbor]

A few things...I am not gonna bail

She gave me every opportunity to bail (like 4 or 5 times now, bc she realizes how much baggage I would be taking on)...she said she wouldn't blame me.

The night after she told me she didn't want to anymore, the next morning, she initiated forplay and we had sex, but about a week after that, we didn't do anything (no more than kiss for like 10 seconds), I couldn't even get her to make out with me, up until last night

Her 1st child at 16, she had to her aunt and uncle to take care for a few months while she found a job, but by the time that happened (a few months later, they refused to give the child back, saying that grew too attached). They went after her for child support...to she pays like $200 counting ss per paycheck.

She is very very stressed about a few thing

-can't see her youngest more than once a week (18months old)

-her 3 year old has severe ADHD, he will not listen at all...her 18 month old listens better. The 3 year old drives her nuts. Going to get an appt with a dr so that dr can check him out to see if we can do anything about it

-child support she pays stresses her out, so we are gonna be talking to a family lawyer (a low cost one)

-gonna be starting her job she went to college for in sept (but it pay her much more than her current job does)

She does take care of me when I'm sick, I love when we have our alone time, she'll get me stuff...I found the no sex thing very frustrating and confusing...so the best bf and lover you've ever had, you decide to cut off love making from? It just doesn't make sense, I'm sure she isn't cheating...that like very little contact for a week frustrated the hell out of me...I have my needs. The no touching for a week, made me feel like we were 50 and no sex drive anymore. I talked to her about it, a few times...

You should bail. If she's not getting it elsewhere (suddenly going off sex with you. coming home 'too tired' and showering by herself set alarm bells ringing) the god stuff will fuck up your relationship anyway. She's keeping you around because you're a mug and she knows you're desperate not to be alone.

The best bf and lover stuff is bullshit flattery as she's preying on your insecurity. Get rid, get out of your parents place and bang anything that moves.

I'm saying this from one forner boxing forum bro to another.

 

[jon bones]

If she's not getting it elsewhere (suddenly going off sex with you. coming home 'too tired' and showering by herself set alarm bells ringing)

i didn't want to be the one to say it...

 

[gogosox82]

That might explain why OP isn't really keen on breaking up.

Well this explains everything now doesn't it. OP I know you won't listen to this but I am now convinced at this point she is basically just using sex as a way to manipulate you. The question is whether you will realize that before its too late. I know she's your first but man she is honestly using that against you in a grossly manipulating sort of fashion. She's using your feelings against to keep you supporting her. I highly doubt that your her best lover. She probably doesn't like having sex with you and made up the god stuff to get out of it but she understands that she needs to have sex with you every once in a while to keep you on the hook so to speak. Like I said before, that's really manipulative stuff she's pulling so for the sake of your future I hope you to everyone in this thread and get out.

 

[sojour]

...right in the middle of the relationship? And also she pulls it after you 2 have had sex a bunch

Context...So me and my gf have been together 7 months now (I'm 26, she is 23)...we had sex after 5th date and have been having sex pretty regularly (avg is about 3-4 times per week)

According to her, I am the best bf and best lover by far she has ever had.

She has 3 kids out of wedlock (1 has been adopted 16 when she had him and she pays child support for, the other lives with his dad most of the time, she has a 3 year old he lives with her)

Bc of child support, her paycheck are half the size of mine, so I pay for pretty much everything when we go out, and I recently paid for her glasses and contacts

I stay at her place like 5-6 nights a week, to help with her kid. On my days off I watch him too (it's difficult...he wears her completely out

So about a week and a half ago I notice she is coming home more tired and I don't think anything of it, bc she works a lot too. So I let her nap and just watch tv. I help around the house and clean a bit, so she doesn't have to. This goes on for about 4 days. On the 4th day I tell her I want her and I to shower together, she is fine with it and says yes...then about an hour after we get back to her place, she just takes a shower on her own...when she comes out she says "sorry I just really felt gross, but don't worry, I'm still gonna take a shower with you", so an hour later, I say I'm ready and she says "i don't feel like taking another shower, I'm sorry"

Day 5 rolls around, I tell her I want some lovin tonight after work, she says yes, then when the time comes, she says I need to talk to you about something and you will probably hate me for it...so she drops that bomb saying she feels guilty everytime we have sex (even when it's her idea), she says she wants to be a better person and that she loves God (she mentioned that she believed in God a few times, but since we were having sex, I figured she was one of those who doesn't follow the no sex before marriage, since it's so common), and that she sinned a lot in her younger days (did pills bad mostly weed), partied a lot (drank, blacked out, etc...), and she just doesn't want the world to end one day soon and go to hell for all the things she does...she does a lot of good things (helps out her family a ton, is nice to just about everyone, gives money to the homeless on the streets, etc...)

I see myself marrying her one day, so I begrudgingly accepted it, right now we do everything except intercourse and oral (as I just found out last night). She said she feels bad bc sex she felt was the only thing she had to offer me and counter everything I do for her (I also let her use my car, pay her cell phone bill, gas sometimes)


My question to Gaf is, has your significant other ever pulled this on you after you 2 have already had sex a bunch? And what did you?

It's nice that you do all these things for her, but from what I've read, it sounds like that you expect sex as a payment. I honestly feel pretty bad for her, since she also sees sex as a payment to you in her mind.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

What? No. Gay men haven't been conditioned to see themselves as provider/provided-for in a typical male/male ralationship dynamic. Where are you even getting that from? Seriously, I didn't even say have the shit you just shoved into my mouth.

You can be mad if you want, but men in the US are largely conditioned to see themselves as the "providers" in a relationship.

It's why more men in this country are statistically comfortable with dating women who make less money than them, and not the opposite scenario.

It's why men in the US are more likely to seek partners who stay at home, and not the reverse.

These facts shouldn't be surprising.

Fair enough, you do make some good points here.

It was just your "straight men have been brought up" part that particularly rubbed me up. Why make the distinction? Most of our moral code regarding the way to treat people is instilled in our formative years, long before the concept of sexuality is even a consideration.

I dunno bruv, I have to book that shit these days living with someone is a bit different IMO, especially with kids I should imagine. x100 when your SO has just mutated into a crazy fundie too. I hope she's not mixing her fabrics, god would be right pissy.

Haha, I have never lived with a woman, so yeah, I probably don't have the best frame of reference regarding that. But pre planned sex would seem to sap the passion and romance somewhat.

 

[crazyrabbits]

GAF is many things, but I don't think anyone would deny that, above all else, it is fair. The unanimous consensus in this thread should tell you something. Stop putting her on a pedestal and realize that relationships have to be mutually beneficial.

You're in a lop-sided situation, saddled not only with the responsibility of two children, but another women's welfare and safety when she can't properly look after herself. I've seen it multiple times before - hell, I advised my best friend not to get involved with a women two years his senior because she had a child from a previous marriage (and was in her 20's as well).

Even with the conceit that it's your first relationship, you can do a whole lot better than that.

 

[royalan]

Honest question, you think OP is having a power trip where he sees himself as the provider and savior of this woman?

I think to call it a "power trip" is a little strong. But judging from the tone of the first post, I DO get the feeling that the OP is a bit caught up in the satisfaction of "bringing home the bacon" that he can't see that she's taken it a step further than that and is actively taking advantage of him.

There's nothing wrong with a relationship where one partner brings home more money than the other; but you can still have that dynamic within a mutually beneficial relationship. And that ain't this. OP is the bank, the babysitter, the social worker, and now he's being expected to bear the burden of his girlfriend's sudden desire for abstinence. And what does he get in return? Some chicken soup when he's sick?

OP sees himself as the provider. As the one who's needs and desires should be sidelined because he's supposed to be "the strong one." OP doesn't realize that his feelings do and SHOULD matter. His desires in the relationship should be considered.

He's being taken advantage of. Blatantly manipulated. It's not even about the sex anymore. And he can't even see it.

 

[The Incarnation]

Harmony is what makes a relationship work. Both you have to be getting some sort of benefit from it.

You are not. She is.

Either one of two things have to happen.

1. She changes her mind to be more in harmony with your needs.
or
2. You accept the situation for what it is. (Though the chances are your unhappiness will rub off on her and the kids) And if you give a damn about them you should leave anyway.

Again I suggest you spend less time around her, and figure out what you really want and need.

 

[alterno69]

Sorry man but this whole thing is just too much for a 26 year old. Do you really want to marry into a scenario like that? Raising kids 24/7 is hard enough, let alone when those kids aren't yours. Seems like your GF is carrying a lot of baggage and it is affecting your relationship, and will probably get worse. Right now you're just the boyfriend helping out with her kid, when you marry her you will be a father, and that kid will be your responsibility 24/7.

The first thing you have to do is be honest to her, if you are not happy about the no sex thing you have to tell her, do it in person, send an email, write a letter, but tell her.

If it's a problem for you you have to let her know and if you have to move on then move on, you're young, she's young. You'll be alright.

 

[DrGonzo615]

What? No. Gay men haven't been conditioned to see themselves as provider/provided-for in a typical male/male ralationship dynamic. Where are you even getting that from? Seriously, I didn't even say have the shit you just shoved into my mouth.

You can be mad if you want, but men in the US are largely conditioned to see themselves as the "providers" in a relationship.

It's why more men in this country are statistically comfortable with dating women who make less money than them, and not the opposite scenario.

It's why men in the US are more likely to seek partners who stay at home, and not the reverse.

These facts shouldn't be surprising.

Im loving all the cited sources for your info.


Anecdotally, I dont know a single guy friend who would be ok with having a partner just do nothing at home while they bust their ass at work. Those same guys would absolutely LOVE to have a partner that makes so much money that they dont have to work at all (myself included!)

You paint everybody with broad strokes and generalizations. You start with the answer that you want and you work to prove it by picking out whatever fits with your preconceived conclusions.

 

[Horseticuffs]

Im loving all the cited sources for your info.


Anecdotally, I dont know a single guy friend who would be ok with having a partner just do nothing at home while they bust their ass at work. Those same guys would absolutely LOVE to have a partner that makes so much money that they dont have to work at all (myself included!)

You paint everybody with broad strokes and generalizations. You start with the answer that you want and you work to prove it by picking out whatever fits with your preconceived conclusions.

For real. Maybe I'm just a regular, neutered modern man but if I met a woman who was pulling hella bank and wanted me to be a house husband I'd jump at the chance and you can bet your sweet ass she'd come home to a clean house and hot meal every damned night, too.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

For real. Maybe I'm just a regular, neutered modern man but if I met a woman who was pulling hella bank and wanted me to be a house husband I'd jump at the chance and you can bet your sweet ass she'd come home to a clean house and hot meal every damned night, too.

 

[Horseticuffs]

Well, now, I'm an open-minded 21st century 5 year old otter.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Where is OP?? This clearly wasn't a fire-and-forget thread, since he came back to post a reply.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Where is OP?? This clearly wasn't a fire-and-forget thread, since he came back to post a reply.

Once he saw what 99% of the responses were he probably decided he had had enough.

 

[ishibear]

Where is OP?? This clearly wasn't a fire-and-forget thread, since he came back to post a reply.

I'm guessing he's not coming back since most of the responses weren't what he was looking for.

But what did he expect? No one wants to see someone screw up their life if they can possibly convince them otherwise.

I had a feeling from the first post made that he wasn't gonna leave this girl. I still hope he will try something to improve his circumstances somehow tho.

 

[Seik]

Man, OP, you sound like a great guy! D:

I don't understand her point about going to hell by having sex before marriage, but I'm not a christian. Wasn't this line of thinking preached more in the 80's/90's?

In any case, she sees too much shit about sex, you just have your needs man.

 

[GungHo]

Because it's starting to seem like she didn't give the child up for adoption.

Seems like the child was removed from her care.

Yeah, people can't just keep your kids just because they like them. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Horseticuffs]

While this is a cute sentiment, are you seriously denying that there is a social/cultural belief in the US (and most of the world, too), that a man is "supposed" to be the provider?

Hell, you can read tons of experiences about SAHDs that complain about how people look down on them for doing so- male and female.

I never would. There's clearly a cultural pressure on men in that regard. It's just I, personally, am not quite good at it and wouldn't mind switching "traditional" roles.

I'm sure SAHD get tons of static, same with moms.

 

[BlindRage]

Lionel, we need you

 

[Box of Kittens]

Nobody can make a decision like this except you, but there are some questions you should be asking yourself before making any decisions. These are questions you should really reflect on, don't just spend a couple of minutes thinking about them while you're stressed about work, the kids, etc. Ideally you'd spend time thinking about this while you're away from the situation. Say, take a day to just spend by yourself. Decisions you make now could affect the rest of your life. Remember that if you marry someone, even if you get divorced, they will be a big part of your life. If you're going to continue or deepen this relationship, make sure you're doing so for the right reasons.

Based on everything you've said, she has a long track record of making bad decisions. There are exceptions, but most people with such a track record tend to continue making bad decisions. Ask yourself whether there is any good reason to believe she won't continue to make bad decisions. When you're together, her bad decisions become your problems.

Ask yourself whether you are truly happy in this relationship or if you just love the idea of being in a relationship after being alone for so long and/or if you're in love with the idea of being someone's knight in shining armor. When you're first in love it's easy to let romantic notions override your better judgment.

Ask yourself what you are getting out of the relationship that you can't get from someone else. Taking care of you when you're sick and spending time alone with you is nice but those things are standard. My wife does those things for me, she is also emotionally stable, has a good job, and didn't have three children with three different men by age 23.

Ask yourself what will happen if you leave. Are you afraid of being alone? Going until your mid-twenties without a serious relationship is difficult, and it may seem like this is your one chance at happiness. But there are other women out there and with the benefit of experience you may find your confidence improved and with that your dating life. I've seen it happen with friends and acquaintances before. Having that first relationship under your belt is huge.

Ask yourself if you're prepared to accept the responsibilities that would come with staying. That means supporting her and her kids, both financially and emotionally, potentially for the rest of your life.

Ask yourself how sincere her change of heart about sex seems. If it doesn't ring true, then what other motives could there be? Nobody likes to think they're being used but you need to be sure she truly loves you and not just what you can do for it. If it does seem sincere, then think about whether you'd both be better off with someone who shares your respective values.

And one last thing. Be sure that you don't end up marrying her (or anyone for that matter) so you can have sex. That is never a good reason to get married.

 

[garth2000]

To the OP. I've been in your shoes twice now. Both were terrible relationships that were very one sided (although only one had kids... not mine... involved). Both times I lost life long friends who were desperate to see me free. Both times I misplaced the fear of being alone for deep love. that said, nothing I, or anyone will say will convince you otherwise. There will be a day when you snap and hopefully the result of that is profound respect for yourself and nothing else. Once I finally found that respect I finally ended it, I went on to a long period of being single which I loved every minute of. There were still casual relationships during this period where I had fun, but did not let define me. eventually I met my now wife who I've been with for over 10 years. Not only is everything about as balanced as could be, I've since regained a lot of those lost friends.

to everyone else who said they have been in his shoes. did you ever listen to the advice you got? I sure didn't, and I wish I did...... I just had on the god damn blinders

 

[royalan]

Im loving all the cited sources for your info.


Anecdotally, I dont know a single guy friend who would be ok with having a partner just do nothing at home while they bust their ass at work. Those same guys would absolutely LOVE to have a partner that makes so much money that they dont have to work at all (myself included!)

You paint everybody with broad strokes and generalizations. You start with the answer that you want and you work to prove it by picking out whatever fits with your preconceived conclusions.

I'm posting from my phone at work right now, so I can't link sources. But are you REALLY denying that, statistically, more men prefer being the breadwinners in the US, or see themselves as the traditional providers? I'm legit surprised that's being disputed. But I will slay you with some receipts when I get home.

 

[royalan]

I think, at least, that's what the other guy meant, though. Not that "all men want to be providers," but rather, "(all) men socially are expected to want to be providers to have any sort of personal satisfaction."

At least, that's how I read it. I don't think most people are saying, barring a few conservative crazies, that "all men must be providers and must get off on it," I think it's just a discussion of "are perhaps societal expectations of you as a heterosexual male forcing you to stay in an arrangement that isn't making you happy/isn't beneficial to you."

Thanks for clearing that up. Exactly what I meant.

 

[DrGonzo615]

I'm not sure if there are any well-known academic studies published about cultural attitudes that I can find so quickly without taking the time to actually read them, but are you seriously denying that the social/cultural attitude towards men working isn't a thing?

BTW, a person that stays at home doesn't just "do nothing," or I hope so. If you and your friends think that about SAHMs, that's a little... ignorant? Or maybe I'm being idealistic and most stay at home partners actually sit around and do nothing all day.

Normally, cultural attitudes aren't cited with "real sources," because it tends to be something one picks up from growing up in said society- an observation of the culture's shared values and beliefs. While this contributes to the problem, that an attitude is unquestioned and "fact," and there is an appeal to tradition in arguments, saying that the attitude exists is not the same as saying the attitude exists and is an unchangeable fact of life. For example, do you ask for a "cited source" if someone said something like, conservatives don't like big government / are against social welfare / think abortion is wrong?

I'd love for, in the US, and hell, in the world, for men and women to be viewed at as equals, and for there to be no shame in being a stay-at-home dad/mom/partner. At the same time, I happen to agree with the person that the cultural attitudes definitely push men to be "macho noncrying providers." It's not a good thing, but it doesn't make it any less "true."

*edit- Though, hopefully, since you and your friends all don't feel that way, it's an indication that cultural attitudes towards this are indeed shifting towards equality. I hope that is the case. Personally, no, I would definitely not be okay with a stay at home partner, but that's just me. I don't think it should be true, and I don't think anyone else is obligated to agree with me (except my partner, of course.)



While this is a cute sentiment, are you seriously denying that there is a social/cultural belief in the US (and most of the world, too), that a man is "supposed" to be the provider?

Hell, you can read tons of experiences about SAHDs that complain about how people look down on them for doing so- male and female.

Well first things first. My last post never mention anything about kids being involved. I have nothing but respect for stay at home parents raising their children and I definitely do not think that raising kids qualifies as "sitting around" (but I also dont believe this common bullshit line that "it's the most difficult job in the world" either)

As for your example about Republicans, their beliefs are in their parties ethos. You can look up and cite press conferences, voting record, campaign platforms. There are a lot of ways to verify what Republicans generally believe.

Also, Im not saying that there has never been this notion that the man is the bread winner but in my experience, that shit died decades ago. EDIT: I live in California though, I know we are a bit more progressive than a lot of the US.

My main gripe is with this Feminist idea that its all part of a patriarchal scheme to keep women down, like its all part of this big elaborate plan to subjugate women. Some women choose to stay at home and raise children. I have a real hard time believing that men going to work and making enough for their wives/girlfriends to stay at home is some fiendish plot to keep them down. Maybe its because they care about them enough to spare them from working some back breaking job that sucks?

I dont have any issues with women in the workplace and I absolutely believe in equal pay for equal work, but all this talk about nefarious plans to keep women down seems absurd in a lot of situations.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I'm guessing he's not coming back since most of the responses weren't what he was looking for.

But what did he expect? No one wants to see someone screw up their life if they can possibly convince them otherwise.

I had a feeling from the first post made that he wasn't gonna leave this girl. I still hope he will try something to improve his circumstances somehow tho.

I've already made a couple of exhaustive posts to try and advise and analyze what we have but others noted some great points to which I didn't echo simply because those things were already said.

What he needs to do is a "push comes to shove" type of move in order to see where this is really going.

Trying to mask the glaring issues, which are mainly on her side, will do nothing in the long term. You can't just shove this kind of stuff under the rug. 26 years old and a long life ahead. I see no point in the TC wasting his best years on this kind of scenario.

I'm not saying there isn't other people with 2-3 kids which don't have their act together and would treat someone they are dating a little better but this case has some very critical wrongs which are too hard to ignore.

And let's also say that the TC is also more than willing to accept the fact that he's never been in a relationship and is willfully accepting sex in exchange for companionship and a few odds and ends that come alongside a relationship - I see very little reason to use that as pillar on which to continue this.

If you are going to do this then the "relationship" needs to be a friends with benefits or a sugar daddy like arrangement. Don't overly invest emotionally if it even remotely equates to either of those and in the case of the TC, it all points to things like this.

 

[Yoda]

That might explain why OP isn't really keen on breaking up.

Had a hunch this was the case. To the OP, there are plenty of other girls out there who would be much better suited for you. Your first real relationship shouldn't be with someone who makes terrible life choices on a consistent basis. She will be unpredictable in the future if her past is any indication to go off. I'd tell her you got into this relationship without fully understanding it and you think it is in both of your best interests to move on; because A) You have no experience being on your own, you are certainly ill-prepared to deal with a relationship where you will bear the brunt of the finances and have to be partially involved with legal dealings and raising children. B) The concerns which prompted you to examine the relationship are mis-placed. You made this post after getting denied sex for what sounds like a bullshit excuse. Given the gravity of her situation (having her kids removed from her custody), this feeling should have been induced by those. I'd be willing to bet money on the fact that this is due to her being your first real relationship. C) Stemming from the last point her reason to cut off sex sounds awfully strange. Was she religious in other ways before you knew her/before she confronted you? A 23 year old girl seemingly finding God out of the blue just isn't really believable.

 

[Anfony O]

I'm going to leave this here...

http://uk.askmen.com/top_10/dating_top_ten/28_dating_list.html

Spoiler

Not saying that she is cheating just think you should look into it

 

[MaschinenZimmer]

but I also dont believe this common bullshit line that "it's the most difficult job in the world" either.

That reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJrMaFlxOk

 

[Ex:2]

I totally get where you're coming from. The point of your OP was not about whether or not you should stay with your girlfriend. You made this thread to get advice on how to talk to your girlfriend about sex.

If you want to do that, you should try to understand her, and understand how she makes decisions. Based on your post, after having to deal with the crisis of being sixteen and having a child, being unable to see that child for months, and then having that child taken away by her own family leading to her paying child support she can't afford, she decided to have unprotected sex again with another man out of wedlock. At least once. And about a year after having another child at the age of twenty, she decided to have unprotected sex with a third man out of wedlock. And she got pregnant again. And she decided not to have an abortion, even after enduring the results of those decisions twice before. All of these problems were complicated by her decision to abuse drugs and alcohol.

But then her luck changed when she met you, the best boyfriend she's ever had. At that point she decided, in spite of her Christian faith, to cohabitate with another man and have sex with him out of wedlock. She also allowed a man to pay for her every time she went out, and even further, she decided to let him pay for her glasses, contacts, travel expenses, cell phone bill, and gas bill. Then, she admitted that she was exchanging this money for sex, another violation of her faith. And finally, after all that she has gotten from you, she decided it was a good idea to put even more strain on the best relationship she has ever had by deciding not to have sex with you - a man who has been more of a husband to her and father to her children than any of the men who have impregnated her - even though she knew it would hurt you because her Christian faith is too important to her. A Christian faith that she has flagrantly violated time and time again for the past seven years.

Also she believes in hell and the rapture.

So, considering how she makes decisions, what do you think is the best way to deal with the problems in your sex life? Considering that she violated her oath of abstinence eight hours after she made it when she slept with you the morning after the discussion (only to re-pledge her abstinence immediately after that), do you think it's going to be easy to have a rational discussion about this with her? Based on her actions, she probably will have sex with you again, so don't worry (too much). But do you think this is the last time she will pull this stunt? And do you think she may decide to use abstinence to force you to marry her before you are ready? And if you do end up legally bound to her, through marriage or common law, how well do you think you will cope with the financial and familial problems your girlfriend has? What do you think your life will be like ten or twenty years down the road if this happens?

I think you already have all the information you need to figure out what to do. Good luck.

Amen.... bless you kind sir.

 

[Cragvis]

If its a religious thing, wouldnt her God see that OP does have feelings for her, and loves her and the love between both of them should be celebrated in intimacy, regardless if they get married or not?

Spoiler

Shes totally boning another dude. Run, run far away.

 

[SillyEskimo]

That reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJrMaFlxOk

He's right. And it gets even easier when the kids are in school.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

He's right. And it gets even easier when the kids are in school.

No doubt. Youngans under 5-6 are awesome but more work. The older they get the less work they need in certain areas. Self maintained kids!

 

[Macmanus]

HJs for Jesus.

 

[Future]

Im loving all the cited sources for your info.


Anecdotally, I dont know a single guy friend who would be ok with having a partner just do nothing at home while they bust their ass at work. Those same guys would absolutely LOVE to have a partner that makes so much money that they dont have to work at all (myself included!)

You paint everybody with broad strokes and generalizations. You start with the answer that you want and you work to prove it by picking out whatever fits with your preconceived conclusions.

Do you have kids. It's fuckin rough dude. All hours of the day demanding your attention, waking you up at night, draining your time and money. The people that stay home with kids have it ROUGH. I'm a dude that actually would love to have someone stay home and do nothing as you say. It can literally be insanity inducing, and actually couldn't recommend it to anyone. "Breaks" to go to work and talk to adults keeps you sane

Off topic but hand to chime in since I've been a parent for awhile now. It is definitely the hardest job I've ever had, especially because you need to juggle it with a money making job.

You're only 26 and you're already signed up with all this drama? 3 kids out of wedlock and none are yours? And she's 23?!

You're not even married and you paying for kids that aren't yours? Dude, you're too young for this nonsense.

Bail out, man.

Bunch of pages I didn't read, but I have to reiterate this. Kids are a lot of work that you have to be ready on all fronts to deal with them. Sounds like she is making it extremely challenging to date (needs financial help, babysitter help, and now no sex).

No sex thing is doable if you love her. There is more to a relationship than sex. But man I hope you really do love her. Everything else better be fantastic

 

[Kodeman]

I'd bail. If she's found religion and you haven't it's only going to get a thousand times worse.

In late, but this was my first thought after reading. If you two aren't on the same page religiously, I don't see how it will work out in the long run.

 

[Feel the Swift]

OP, she doesn't want to have sex because Jesus man. She's telling you the truth, the man she is sleeping with is seriously named Jesus.

 

[DrGonzo615]

Uhh.... lol. I don't even know what to say to that. Do you have a source for this feminist idea? Like, any kind of feminist literature that argues this?

It doesnt quite apply to this specific situation but basically everything on this page blames the patriarchy for everything....

http://www.youtube.com/user/feministfrequency

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80

 

[Solidsoul]

Definitely don't penalize her at all for feeling convicted and wanting to follow her faith closely. But the thing that puzzles me is you said she feels like the only think she has to offer you in return for all the nice things you do to her is sex? That's weird man.

A relationship should be two people working together and both bringing stuff to the table. From what you say, it does seem like shes a nice caring and helpful partner....but what is going on that makes her think all she has to offer is sex?

Like i said, totally respect the religion, but it could be quite possible that if you made her feel like she had much more to offer without sex, she'd be more inclined to give it?

 

[Wilsongt]

Yes. No sex in over a year and a half.