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Heroes of Newerth |OT| Free-To-Play [PC /Mac /Linux]

Pkaz01

Member
The only problem Valve is facing is going to be the community. They need to somehow make a matchmaking system that really separates the new players from the people that know whats going on. The community is ruthless but more because of the expectations they have for other players not because they don't remember how it was when they were knew or that they don't want to help others. Its just that once you learn the game you want to play it and enjoy it not feel handicapped because one of the people on your team isn't pulling their weight.

Hon matchmaking honestly is not very good. EU, South america, US, and Australia is all jumbled together and you will have 4 1600s and one 1400 on one team. Thats going to be the biggest challenge.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I don't think there's really anything Valve can do to stop 1600s from queueing with their 1400 friends, which is typically where these mismatched scenarios occur. I've rarely been matched with people +/-100 my rating in solo matchmaking, although I hear it's different in 1800+ because of the sparsity of players.
 

Sanjay

Member
Halycon said:
Think of it like this.

To make Rylais, you need Blasting Wand, Amplifying Tome, Giant's Belt and 700g to form the Staff after you acquire all the item.

That 700g is what the recipe would cost in HoN/DotA. The reason for the existence of recipes is because of the courier unit, which allows you to shop remotely and have your items delivered to you. So say you have two components for an item, and you buy the recipe. You'd put it on the courier then run it over to you, and it'll form in your inventory.

Here is the full list of items: http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/items.php

The items in Supplies, Accessories, Weapons, Relics, Outpost and Legendary shops have no recipe requirements. What you see is what you get. The Initiation, Support, Protective, Combative, and Morph Attack are all combination items. Some require recipes, others will form immediately after you have the necessary components in your inventory. (The support section on the site is actually broken)

A general description of what items in each Store does.

Supplies: Consumables, and starter items. This is where you buy most of your stuff right after the game starts.

Wards of Sight (orange): Gives vision. Max 4 wards in the inventory (shared by the entire team) at any given time. Replenishes at a rate of 3 minutes per ward.

Wards of Revelation (blue): Gives truesight. Unlimited. The detection range is as wide as the vision range on a Sight ward, but the vision radius is severely limited.

Dust of Revelation: Temporary truesight buff around yourself. You buy these two at a time.

Mana Potion, Health Potion and Runes of Blight: Restores mana, health and health respectively. The tradeoff between Health and Blight is one of speed over security. Health Potion restores 400 health over 10 seconds, but if you get hit, it cancels. Usually you sit back a safe distance while it works. Runes of Blight comes in 3 charges, each of which heals 115 health over 16 seconds. But it doesn't matter if you get damaged or not. Also they can be used to cut through trees in a pinch. Mana pots restore 100 mana over 30 seconds. It will also cancel if you get damaged.

Homecoming Stone: Also referred to as TP. Using a homecoming stone lets you warp to any friendly non-player built structure, usually used to defend but also to travel somewhere while a teamfight is building. It will choose the building closest to where you click, so be careful to click the right location on the minimap. (You can also find the tower manually and click it but that is time consuming) You can buy as many as you can afford but you can only use them once every 60 seconds.

Monkey and Winged Courier: Starts out as an item in your inventory. needs to be "used" to spawn the monkey. It can be used to ferry items from the fountain to you while you're in the field. It's very weak however, and any items on it when it dies are dropped. This doesn't happen often but when it does, people rage so hard. Flying courier is an upgrade you buy. You place the recipe on the monkey then click "Upgrade Courier" or use the "Q" hotkey when the monkey is your active unit, and it turns into a Winged Courier. The winged courier has a speed buff, and an invulnerability shield.

Mana Battery and Bottle of Tears: Your two main options for non-consumable regeneration. Mana Battery gains charges every time an opponent near you casts a spell. You can expend the charges (max 10) to restore 10 health and 15 mana per charge to yourself. Do not underestimate the strength of a mana battery, it can turn around a fight when you need that nuke to win a fight but don't have the mana to cast it.

Bottle has 3 charges, which are filled anytime you're in range of the fountain. Each charge restores 135 Health and 70 mana over 3 seconds (damage interrupts). It can be also used to hold a rune for up to 2 minutes, at which point it will be used and the bottle will be refilled.​

Accessories: Hybrid Stat items, which grants Agi, Int or Str. There are generally 3 types of Hybrid Stat items.
150g: Buys you +3 Agi or Int or Str.
450g: Buys you +6 Agi or Int or Str.
1000g: Buys you +10 Agi or Int or Str.
There are also items that give bonuses to all 3 stats simultaneously. They go:
53g: +1
185g: +2
540g: +4
2100g: +10

Weapons: Damage or armor items, sometimes with an additional effect. The exceptions to this are the Hatchet and Stout shield, neither of which gives you stats but their passives do improve your laning abilities by preventing damage or making farming easier, respectively.

Relics: Everything else. Boots, base regen items and miscellaneous other items that don't really fit anywhere else.

Outpost: A collection of items from the aforementioned shops. They can be found bot lane on Legion side, and top lane for Hellborne.

Legendary:Very expensive items, usually used for recipes for mid/lategane. There are the boosters (as they are known in DOTA). They give, +250 mana, +250 health, and +200 health/+150 mana and cost 900g, 1100g and 1200g respectively. The +25 items, which cost 2700g for Int, 3000g for Agi and 3200g for Str. The +46 and +60 damage items, which cost 2200g and 3800g respectively. Warpcleft, which costs 2100g for +55 attack speed. And the two components of sustainer, Manatube and Healthtube, which cost 875g and grant +5 Health Regen and +100% Mana Regen respectively. Note on mana regen. There are two kinds, flat and percentage. Percentage boosts are additive. So getting two mana tubes will give you +200% mana regen. Flat regen, like the aura from Ring of the teacher, gives you mana per second.

Initiation: Early game combination items.

Fortified Bracer, Soulscream Ring and Amulet of Exile: These are the +3/+3/+6 items, which are basically some mixture of Int and Agi and Str. They are built off of any of the 150g +3 items and the 185g +2/+2/+2 item and the corresponding recipe. Bracer costs the most, Ring costs the least.

Power Supply: A better mana battery that gives +3/+3/+3.

Blood Chalice: Solves most heroes' mana problems by sacrificing health for mana. Also gives +3 Str and +3 Int.

Sustainer: Philosopher's stone but way more expensive.

Firebrand and Arcana are really only there to be built into better items.

Alchemist Bones: Lets you instantly kill a creep for bonus gold. Think Gangplank's Parrley. The bonus gold depends on how much the creep is worth, so go for the big ones. Stores up to 2 charges. Generally too expensive except for junglers since they're hanging around big creeps all the time.

Striders: Boots of Mobility but way faster. Primary means of roaming for heroes that don't need/get much farm. Your best friend as a support player

Steamboots: Gives +10 to a single stat, movespeed and attack speed. Can be toggled to switch between stats. Some people like to show off and switch to Str stat while dying to gain extra health and troll his gankers.

Ghost Marchers: Gives movespeed and damage. Can be activated to grant unit walking and a speed buff (like Ghost on boots)

Plated Greaves: Boots that can be activated to give a temporary damage and damage deflection buff. Generally useless except in highly organized play and certain push strats.

Post Haste: Can be activated to teleport to any friendly non-hero/non-ward unit. 60 second cooldown, shared with TP/Homecoming Stone. Generally too expensive to get in a normal game but if you're uber pro you get one just to troll people.​

Support: These items usually confer some sort of ability that lets you disable. Some of them can be used for other things, like summoning minions that give truesight or pushing someone forward or a group heal. Most of the items are Int, but not all. Notable items are Tablet of Command (pushes an allied or enemy hero forward by 500 units, interrupts channeling, can be used to cross obstacles), Storm Spirit (disables an allied or enemy hero for 2.5 seconds, preventing them from being targeted), Ring of Sorcery (activate to restore mana to you and all your friends), Puzzle Box (can summon two helpers, repeatedly purchasing this recipe after the item is made will upgrade it up to level 3, one of the minions at level 3 grants truesight), Refresher Orb (refreshes all non-item cooldowns), Barrier Idol (grants all nearby allied units a shield that absorbs 400 spell damage) and Totem of Kuldra (turns enemy target into a sheep for 3.5 seconds).

Protective: These items are defensive/tank items. The notable items are Helm of the Black Legion (hands down the best tanking item in the game), Assassin's Shroud (activate to give invisibility and movement speed), Nullstone (Banshee's Veil with a shorter cooldown) and Shrunken Head (also known as BKB, gives magic immunity).

Combative: These items help you to do lots of damage. However, most of them also have secondary effects/activated abilities that work better for this hero or that. There's nothing like Infnity Edge and Phantom Dancer here, you pick the item that best suits your needs. Notable items are Spellshards (upgradable, gives your spells MRpen), Hellflower (which silences skills AND items), Geometer's Bane (which grants you two illusions), and Codex (upgradable, gives you a progressively stronger nuke).

Morph Attack: These items change the way your attacks behave. Think of items like Wit's End (old one and new one), Frozen Mallet, and pretty much any lifesteal item. Unlike in LoL, HoN attack modifiers do not all stack. They are split into 3 types. Attack Modifier (lifesteal, slow, armor degradation), Mana-Depletion (like old Wit's End, but actually viable) and Bashing (which gives a chance to stun). Oddly enough, the item that grants Bashing, Brutalizer, is in the Combative Shop.

Greatness Bump.

Pkaz01 said:
Wow Dota 2 is going to destroy Lol and Hon. I feel bad but i'll probably be going over to dota 2 and won't look back. As good as Hon is it can't compete with the original especially with valve backing them up they literally have to just clone the game into a good server and up the graphics/models and thats it. It will take a monumental fuck up for it not to be successful amongst the dota community.

Never really understand highlander views where its like there can be only one. I see myself playing both and having fun.

Meeru said:
Not surprisingly, everyone here thinks the same as you

No we don't. It's a mixed bag and hard to really fathom views until valve actually show something. Like with all new shiny things, people flock to them.

Pkaz01 said:
Hon matchmaking honestly is not very good. EU, South america, US, and Australia is all jumbled together.

What bullshit is this, that's like a plus not a negative. I hate the fact that Starcraft 2 and I think LOL too separate regions, total BS and I do not see Valve going this way at all. Also would like to point out they may be all jumbled together but you still have the option not to play in any region you prefer not to.

A feature I think they should add is how Street Fighter AE handles the rating system how they have a overall rating and a individual rating for each different character and they also have a tier level system which would be nice to have too.
 

Meteorain

Member
Sanjay said:
What bullshit is this, that's like a plus not a negative. I hate the fact that Starcraft 2 and I think LOL too separate regions, total BS and I do not see Valve going this way at all. Also would like to point out they may be all jumbled together but you still have the option not to play in any region you prefer not to.

I'm guessing it's the shitty net they get in America. They have problems just going from one coast to another; it's quite amusing.
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
shintoki said:
Coming from LoL and from what I remember of WCIII. Its messy. Both the look and interface is messy to the point where it actually harmed the gameplay. Some of it didn't make sense either. I would really of liked to known about having recipe items in the stash box to create the item.

Can you explain what you mean by this? I see this sentiment a lot from LoL players, that HoN is some garbled mess of colors on the screen etc etc, but I can't begin to understand that point of view. Do you just play a game one time and expect everything to make perfect sense?

LoL is a game where everything is outlined and clearly distinguishable, but that's just it's style. SC2, WC3, WoW, and every FPS I've played with modern graphics is no harder to look at than HoN is, and in this regard I think LoL is the exception in it's style.

I think a combination of art style switch and speed of the game is why many LoL players feel HoN is so jumbled. Everything in HoN moves faster, and things do more damage relative to health early on in the game (from my experience). Fights of any kind in HoN are much shorter as well. All it takes is getting used to.

And nice explanation of the shop Haly. For the new guys, Hon's shop is literally a carbon copy of dota's, +/- a couple items.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
HoN UI is pretty cluttered. I remember the 1.0 UI where the main menu icons weren't even labeled, so I had to mouse over everything to see what they did.

The game itself is visually busy. Not that it doesn't look good, but it's not helpful for a game where you need to pick out one person in a crowd. The same thing happens in LoL and Dota to a similar extent but it's worse in HoN because everything's so flashy and crammed to the ends with particle effects. LoL is ugly, you can say that, but it's also easy on the eyes, which is probably more important than being pretty for gameplay like this.

Oh I forgot to mention. There's an option in the shop to switch between items by classification and items by stats. If you just want to know where all the INT items are then that can be helpful. Just keep in mind that stats aren't as simple as they are in LoL. The passives and actives granted by items are typically far more important than the stats they confer.

Another important difference is the necessity of proper health and mana management. In the early game, you cannot spam your spells unless you plan to make many trips back to the fountain or you're constantly carting mana potions to yourself. Save your mana for when you know you can nab a kill, or prevent them from getting one. Later on, once you get your major mana regen item (most heroes only need one, like Chalice or Ring of Sorcery or any of the int items for supports), you will use your spells more often to harass and soften the other side. However, spells remain a valuable resource that should not be used lightly. As you play, you will become better at judging when you poke with spells and when to save them for a possible fight.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
Pkaz01 said:
Wow Dota 2 is going to destroy Lol and Hon. I feel bad but i'll probably be going over to dota 2 and won't look back. As good as Hon is it can't compete with the original especially with valve backing them up they literally have to just clone the game into a good server and up the graphics/models and thats it. It will take a monumental fuck up for it not to be successful amongst the dota community.

and cmon a tourney with a 1 million dollar prize for a game that is being shown for the first time? what the hell is going on here?

I doubt League will be destroyed, it's different enough. The people playing it generally don't like the extra mechanics that come along with DOTA.
 

NukeDukem

Banned
Heavy said:
I'm still gonna play HoN. I love this game... I think it'll be different enough.
twaddle.jpg
 

Guesong

Member
Hai guyz, I'm back from Europe.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO HON.

EDIT : Aight, got time to read up a bit. So basically all Legacy players are still cool but won't get the new heros as promptly as before, and all F2P are on a rotation system like LoL? Pretty much it?
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
Guesong said:
Hai guyz, I'm back from Europe.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO HON.

EDIT : Aight, got time to read up a bit. So basically all Legacy players are still cool but won't get the new heros as promptly as before, and all F2P are on a rotation system like LoL? Pretty much it?
Pretty much.

People will complain about it, but it's all honestly no big deal - other than the fact that there's been quite a bit of lag and server strain with the F2P boost.
 

Meeru

Banned
Beyondgaming teammates, the next team are from Sweden..I am talking with him now.

They would like to play in 10 hours or so.. Which would be 12am for them and 5pm for us. Please reply when you guys wake up lol.
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
GAF played two games against Testie again yesterday, went 1-1. Won the first one, lost the second, we played terribly the second game.

I recorded both but the vods don't seem to be working, I'll link it up when they do.
 

Meeru

Banned
Procarbine said:
GAF played two games against Testie again yesterday, went 1-1. Won the first one, lost the second, we played terribly the second game.

I recorded both but the vods don't seem to be working, I'll link it up when they do.
Could you upload them to YouTube so we can watch it on our mobile phones
 

Guesong

Member
What,s will all this negativity over one patch which frankly, does not really affect us at all?

Valve announce a DotA 2 reveal, Tim Buckley (and the community) gets to possibly see a hero implemented and then all you guys are OMG APOCALYPSE DOTA2 SAVE US.

Did I miss something? Or is everyone just overreacting to hell?
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Meeru said:
Beyondgaming teammates, the next team are from Sweden..I am talking with him now.

They would like to play in 10 hours or so.. Which would be 12am for them and 5pm for us. Please reply when you guys wake up lol.

5 PM EST or PST?
 
Guesong said:
What,s will all this negativity over one patch which frankly, does not really affect us at all?

Valve announce a DotA 2 reveal, Tim Buckley (and the community) gets to possibly see a hero implemented and then all you guys are OMG APOCALYPSE DOTA2 SAVE US.

Did I miss something? Or is everyone just overreacting to hell?

No one likes Tim Buckley because he's a self-absorbed dick, in addition to having a shitty comic.

HoN is better than this, come on.
 

Guesong

Member
....but guys, it's only one hero. Which he and the community will only help design its appearance.

So if its appearance was done by a random fan - or hell, S2 Games itself - , noone would complain (and no one would know!) but since it's Tim Buckley, it is now the whole of HoN that sucks, and all the other 60 heroes now suck, and the whole game is awful, and good lord DoTA2 save us.

Yep.
 

Meeru

Banned
Guesong said:
....but guys, it's only one hero. Which he and the community will only help design its appearance.

So if its appearance was done by a random fan - or hell, S2 Games itself - , noone would complain (and no one would know!) but since it's Tim Buckley, it is now the whole of HoN that sucks, and all the other 60 heroes now suck, and the whole game is awful, and good lord DoTA2 save us.

Yep.
I dont see any sarcasm here.
 

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Lyphen said:
It is pretty funny what a 1 million dollar prize pool can do to a community.
What has it done? Ever since I've started to play HoN all I've seen are people playing it until Dota 2 comes out.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Meeru said:
Beyondgaming teammates, the next team are from Sweden..I am talking with him now.

They would like to play in 10 hours or so.. Which would be 12am for them and 5pm for us. Please reply when you guys wake up lol.

Come on Meeru and Azuki. You two set up this tournament, and then when we show up to play, you log off and cut off mumble communication without telling us anything; and now we get disqualified to a team that never wanted to play in the first place :mad:.
 

Meeru

Banned
Anbokr said:
Come on Meeru and Azuki. You two set up this tournament, and then when we show up to play, you log off and cut off mumble communication without telling us anything; and now we get disqualified to a team that never wanted to play in the first place :mad:.
I would've played if it weren't for the stupid other team telling on the admin that we subbed. Only azuki, delirium, sanjay, and the other two I forgot are able to play now..
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Meeru said:
I would've played if it weren't for the stupid other team telling on the admin that we subbed. Only azuki, delirium, sanjay, and the other two I forgot are able to play now..

The admin told us we have to play with the original roster or forfeit, so we started yelling in mumble and hoping you would hear us but you just disconnected :(. Then azuki randomly logged off and we had to forfeit to a horrible (attitude wise, maybe in game too?) team.

Edit: I've cooled off, I was pretty pissed at the whole situation and how 3 hours were wasted trying to set this up. But there is another tournament tomorrow meeru (the twitchtv one), so if you can't be on can you please pass leadership to alumnus or something (on the beyondgaming site)?
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
Meeru said:
I would've played if it weren't for the stupid other team telling on the admin that we subbed. Only azuki, delirium, sanjay, and the other two I forgot are able to play now..

As Anbokr said, they flip flopped the decision about 5 minutes after you left.
 

NukeDukem

Banned
I believe most players (myself included) do not appreciate how S2 is managing Heroes Of Newerth. I honestly do not see this game surviving with any kind of substantial player-base this time next year. Cloning dota has worked in the short run because the K2 engine is appealing visually, is easily modded, and works very well. However, with the advent of 2.1 I've seen a noticeable drop in the Quality of matches, at least in public games. Leavers are abundant, experienced players rage at the newbs, and i've seen some very "original" item builds for the f2p hero pool. (2 iron shields + arcana + marchers + bottle on swiftblade)
I would love to see the fabled custom map editor that s2 keeps promising be released, as that would greatly broaden the game experience, and extend the lifetime of Heroes Of Newerth.
And to everyone who regards Dota2 as our coming lord and master, consider that Duke Nukem Forever had just as much hype, and an equal amount of disappointment. The more you get hyped about dota2, the more likely you are to be disappointed.
 

IceMarker

Member
NukeDukem said:
And to everyone who regards Dota2 as our coming lord and master, consider that Duke Nukem Forever had just as much hype, and an equal amount of disappointment. The more you get hyped about dota2, the more likely you are to be disappointed.
Well thank goodness DOTA 2 hasn't had 13 years of rocky development and uncontrollable hype to follow it.
 
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