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[Deleted member 471617]

More release options for games is a good thing. Episodic games delivered stuff like Life Is Strange and The Walking Dead. Early Access allowed Kerbal Space Program, Prison Architect, Don't Starve, and myriad other critical-acclaimed games to flourish.

For a game like Hitman and other games that really on self-contained system-driven gameplay, this kind of staggered digital release could be more beneficial than the traditional release structure

And in this case, the digital release bombing means the physical version is going to suffer.

I can see different release options for indies and small studios but not for what will be considered an AAA game and a return to what the franchise should be. Not going to lie, I hate episodic games because first, it can take a long time to release all the episodes and second, you're depending on the developer to release quality episodes each time. Granted, they're far cheaper and usually like what $5 or so for each episode? That's not bad because if you don't like episode one, you can just ignore the rest of the episodes.

My main thing besides it becoming a trend is that I want the entire game in my hands on a disc and I can play it at my pace. If im really into a game and want to keep playing, I don't want to wait who knows how long for more content. That's a negative and a turn off to me.

As for those games being critically acclaimed, I learned a long time ago not to go by critics period. Out of that list, two of them I never heard of, two of them have no interest in and the other one which is Walking Dead was the first, last and only episodic game that I will ever buy.

I disagree in regards to this method being more beneficial to the franchise. I don't know how accurate ******** is but across PS3, 360 and PC, Absolution sold just over 4m which considering the game sucked after the first two or three chapters, I would say that's probably pretty good. This is the reason why people are hesitant to buy another Hitman game because they lost confidence in the franchise after the clusterfuck that was Absolution.

If they were to delay the game until 2016 and release the game in complete form, it will sell - if it's good. If the game truly does copy Blood Money than as long as they don't do some stupid shit or fuck it up, it will sell. I'll pre-order and pick up once Best Buy opens.

But this structure for me personally is a huge turn off and a red flag. Those seven missions could be classic but what happens if oops, they need to delay content and don't release anything until early 2016 and all that content they release sucks? Then what? You're basically out $60 for a seven mission game. No way. They could just take your money and run so to speak.

If they're confident in their game, it should be released in final and complete form. Not a "pay for this" and wait for the rest.

As for the physical release suffering if the digital version bombs, I disagree because again, if the entire package is worth buying, gamers especially true and loyal Hitman fans will do just that.

 

[Sober]

This game is essentially Blood Money 2. Everything they've taken from Absolution is what works under the Blood Money formula, like special guards who can see through disguises. It's an improvement to Blood Money's laughably easy disguise system.

Absolution had fantastic underlying systems. I don't think they had special guards, just very simply that like would recognize like (because numbers of each disguise were so few - e.g. guards, scientists, cops, etc., it worked), which meant you had to still be careful instead of reading disguises as like a permission slip to cross into most areas. In that way I also liked that they refined and added actual occlusive stealth mechanics so you still have to break LOS at times.

It's just a shame Absolution's level design and how difficulty mingled with certain mechanics sucked hard.

But yeah I am hoping for basically Blood Money 2 with this and they recognized what made BM so great. But I need to see a lot more of this before I even think of considering buying this.

 

[Foffy]

Absolution had fantastic underlying systems. I don't think they had special guards, just very simply that like would recognize like (because numbers of each disguise were so few - e.g. guards, scientists, cops, etc., it worked), which meant you had to still be careful instead of reading disguises as like a permission slip to cross into most areas. In that way I also liked that they refined and added actual occlusive stealth mechanics so you still have to break LOS at times.

It's just a shame Absolution's level design and how difficulty mingled with certain mechanics sucked hard.

But yeah I am hoping for basically Blood Money 2 with this and they recognized what made BM so great. But I need to see a lot more of this before I even think of considering buying this.

The problem with Absolution's disguise system is very much akin to the problem of Silent Assassin's Japan levels: the enemy can see through your disguise in absurd ways. It makes some sense that you can be figured out, but the way it's done in Absolution is nothing short of pitiful. If you don't wish to use Instinct which feels like cheating, your disguises are only good for mid-range efforts, as anything in close range requires you hiding in cover. It's also absurd that the game actually doesn't expect you to be using disguises, as cutscenes usually end with you in your default gear. This is seen as early as the first level of the game. I guess that's how they can carry the suit only concept introduced in Blood Money, I guess.

The way they're planning it for this new game is the way it should have been: the disguise works so long as you're not near key people with a similar disguise, for they're the only ones who know who's supposed to be in that attire. Dressing up as a waiter means that the managers overwatching the shift can see through your disguise if you're too close and/or suspicious near them.

 

[Sober]

The problem with Absolution's disguise system is very much akin to the problem of Silent Assassin's Japan levels: the enemy can see through your disguise in absurd ways. It makes some sense that you can be figured out, but the way it's done in Absolution is nothing short of pitiful. If you don't wish to use Instinct which feels like cheating, your disguises are only good for mid-range efforts, as anything in close range requires you hiding in cover. It's also absurd that the game actually doesn't expect you to be using disguises, as cutscenes usually end with you in your default gear. This is seen as early as the first level of the game. I guess that's how they can carry the suit only concept introduced in Blood Money, I guess.

The way they're planning it for this new game is the way it should have been: the disguise works so long as you're not near key people with a similar disguise, for they're the only ones who know who's supposed to be in that attire. Dressing up as a waiter means that the managers overwatching the shift can see through your disguise if you're too close and/or suspicious near them.

I thought that's how Absolution's worked, but then again I didn't put enough time into it to see all the nuances. I played on normal but didn't really take advantage of instinct but it seemed intuitive or at least how it worked as you just described. Huh.

 

[WX3]

I'm in. I love this series and cannot wait for more. This setup here will have me playing the game more than I would had I bought the whole deal in one go which is fine by me. I am not concerned with this structure as long as we get a truly great Hitman experience. That is what I want the most.

 

[NullPointer]

If they were to delay the game until 2016 and release the game in complete form, it will sell - if it's good.

I'd love to know why they didn't do exactly this.

Why not just release the game for full price when its finished?

Or price it per episode as they release?

 

[partyboy]

I'm really looking forward to this, but I have a feeling "mission" doesn't mean new level. I bet some of the seven take place in the same map with different objectives.

 

[MUnited83]

I think the game will end up much, much better being released this way than a regular release. It can benefit greatly of the dedicated fanbase's feedback.

I'm really looking forward to this, but I have a feeling "mission" doesn't mean new level. I bet some of the seven take place in the same map with different objectives.

They won't.

 

[partyboy]

They won't.

How do you know?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I thought that's how Absolution's worked, but then again I didn't put enough time into it to see all the nuances. I played on normal but didn't really take advantage of instinct but it seemed intuitive or at least how it worked as you just described. Huh.

no absolution was extremes to a stupid way. In a crowded china town food market, with a sea of people, the street chefs/vendors could still tell you weren't part of the regular chefs which is a fucking joke.

 

[DukeBobby]

How do you know?

Hitman levels have never worked that way and I doubt they will now.

 

[partyboy]

Hitman levels have never worked that way and I doubt they will now.

They put out an entire game that was basically full of remix levels.

 

[More_Badass]

Hitman levels have never worked that way and I doubt they will now.

Especially when they're touting this as the return to Blood Money-style sandboxes

Now the time-exclusive hits are a different story. Those will probably be special targets within existing levels, like Contracts mode

 

[Foffy]

I'm really looking forward to this, but I have a feeling "mission" doesn't mean new level. I bet some of the seven take place in the same map with different objectives.

No way that they can, as the levels are designed with specific targets in mind. Showstopper in particular is focused on two main targets. Any noteworthy "optional" target in the level is marked as an Opportunity, which replaces the previous games hint system. You have to discover these, so I imagine on harder settings the map doesn't show you where they are.

They'd have to add new targets to the level to meet your concern. That's where the time-exclusive hits come in: they do what you're actually assuming might happen, but these are 48 hour events.

 

[MUnited83]

How do you know?

New missions mean new levels. For "different objectives in the same level" there's the equivalent of the contracts mode, of which there will be several. Way, way more than 7.

 

[partyboy]

New missions mean new levels.

You don't know that, you're just guessing, same as I am.

 

[tearsintherain]

Way too many other new games to play to bother dealing with crap like this. The world is moving to the netflix / youtube / etc model of binge playing / watching everything on the users demand, the old serialization mode some dev studios want to move to is just weird.

I heard Kings Quest reboot so far hasn't sold very well and I'm not touching Hitman until its complete, hope weak sales convince devs not to do this stuff anymore.

 

[partyboy]

I heard Kings Quest reboot so far hasn't sold very well and I'm not touching Hitman until its complete, hope weak sales convince devs not to do this stuff anymore.

The final game would release on the same date whether or not they put out this incomplete early version so I don't know why you'd care?

 

[endlessflood]

I'm a little bit nervous about the new release model they're going with, but everything I've seen and heard about the game itself has been awesome. It's good to see a proper sequel to Blood Money in the works (even though I also enjoyed Absolution for what it was).

 

[Foffy]

You don't know that, you're just guessing, same as I am.

There is no way in hell they're going to retrofit a fashion show focused on two targets to introduce new targets that are separated from that and call it an entirely new mission. The level is simply too focused on

Spoiler

Viktor Novikov and Dalia Margolis

to have a new target being added and calling it a new level. The new targets would be the timed targets that go live at certain times. Those don't make a new level, for players have just one attempt to get those timed targets.

It is very clearly seven locations. Paris, Morocco, and Italy are the only locations outright confirmed for the game, and I imagine they'll be there at launch. I wouldn't be surprised to see all of the targets and their scenarios that were in the E3 trailer be available at launch; this is why I assumed four levels, as we saw four areas with four targets.

I thought that's how Absolution's worked, but then again I didn't put enough time into it to see all the nuances. I played on normal but didn't really take advantage of instinct but it seemed intuitive or at least how it worked as you just described. Huh.

It doesn't work that way in Absolution, which is the problem. You can literally be dressed as a cop and every other cop knows you're a fake, or if you have an attire that physically conceals your face the AI can instantly see through it if you walk by them. I think that mechanic can work, like for example the first Japan mission in Silent Assassin - it's a small area filled with Yakuza; they can very clearly out a non-Japanese caucasian in the midst - but that system doesn't really work for Absolution as it's applied to the whole game. I understand it was probably changed as Blood Money's system was just too easy, but it was changed in a way that people see through your disguise where there is no logic to it.

The new game is a marriage of what Absolution did as a response to Blood Money, but without it being painfully easily or absurdly artificial.

 

[MUnited83]

You don't know that, you're just guessing, same as I am.

It's pretty obvious that it means completely different scenarios. I already said that they have a "hit mode" that will accomplish the "different objectives in the same map" and they will be a WAY higher number than 7. Hell, PS4 is getting 6 exclusive ones. They will pump out those very regularly. The 7 figure isn't about those. I could bet without a single doubt that it will be this way.

 

[tearsintherain]

The final game would release on the same date whether or not they put out this incomplete early version so I don't know why you'd care?

Part of me enjoying a new game is all the hype and threads and buzz about it, and talking about the game on twitch, forums, etc. When a game is staggered like this it ruins a lot of that..

 

[More_Badass]

Way too many other new games to play to bother dealing with crap like this. The world is moving to the netflix / youtube / etc model of binge playing / watching everything on the users demand, the old serialization mode some dev studios want to move to is just weird.

That's pretty backwards. Episodic games and such is relative new compared to the other release structure.

hope weak sales convince devs not to do this stuff anymore.

"I dislike it, therefore it should fail" is pretty petty and closed-minded thinking

New means for games to release have been emerging for years now, from the very concept of digital storefronts, to Kickstarter and Early Access, to indie-focused publishers and episodic games, to PWYW pricing. One can't know if new methods can be successful or beneficial to certain genres until it's attempted.

 

[The Technomancer]

Wait this game looks good? I checked out after Absolution

 

[Dominic_Shade]

I dig this. If those seven missions each feature absurdly-complex unique levels with all the freedom of a Blood Money map, I am completely okay with this manner of release.

The good news is that the feedback generated from these seven missions can possibly help to refine later missions. At least, that is my hope. Hitman levels seem like the time to benefit from constant iteration, so I hope the model of Hitman 6 works to the developer's favour.

 

[Foffy]

Part of me enjoying a new game is all the hype and threads and buzz about it, and talking about the game on twitch, forums, etc. When a game is staggered like this it ruins a lot of that..

I think this is why IO has planned for timed targets. You're going to get that buzz when they release a target in a stage, and tell the community they have 48 hours to deal with it. It can potentially add some new buzz to a level already figured out as a new element has been added.

I imagine places like here and Twitch will have people trying to find the target and plan the perfect hit towards it. I personally find that element to be really fucking badass.

In fact, the update over the weekend to Hitman Sniper kind of accomplishes the same goal. The update added a head of security enemy that randomly appears in the level, as he can now interrupt your regular playstyle and call for backup if he find bodies. This actually has changed how you tackle the in-game missions (the game is one location with many mini-missions, so this may be what partyboy is worried about). Granted, the game marks him the moment he appears, but something like that being added to a level already figured out by a player is a very interesting element.

 

[exmachina64]

Part of me enjoying a new game is all the hype and threads and buzz about it, and talking about the game on twitch, forums, etc. When a game is staggered like this it ruins a lot of that..

How does it ruin that? How many games get that much buzz, hype and threads? How many games generate a lot of conversation on Twitch and forums?

Are you one of those people that only enjoys AAA gaming?

 

[More_Badass]

Part of me enjoying a new game is all the hype and threads and buzz about it, and talking about the game on twitch, forums, etc. When a game is staggered like this it ruins a lot of that..

Hitman has always been relatively niche. It's not the kind of game that's going to be getting a ton of crazy hype threads or extensive discussion outside of dedicated fans

 

[Dremark]

Blood Money had 10 full missions with 2 minor ones. The two minor ones were the tutorial and the last mission. So 7 missions at launch might not be as bad as it seems.

Yeah Blood Money is a great game, but the number of levels wasn't it's selling point. I'll have to look more into this, I don't feel Absolution was a terrible game like some but I do feel it was a step in the wrong direction.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Because episodic gaming has such a great track record...

I can even remember the times when Ritual tried to release Sin as an episodic game. That went stellar... -.-

 

[More_Badass]

Because episodic gaming has such a great track record...

The Walking Dead
Life is Strange
Fables
Kentucky Route Zero
and so on...

They sure do.

 

[DukeBobby]

The Walking Dead
Life is Strange
Fables
Kentucky Route Zero
and so on...

They sure do.

Man, I love Kentucky Route Zero, but the year long wait between episodes makes it a tough sell.

 

[zkorejo]

Blood Money had 11 missions (not counting the tutorial and final bloodbath) and Contracts had 12

Considering these are supposed to be the largest Hitman levels yet, plus Contracts mode, I think seven missions for the initial launch is a nice of amount content

More than I was expecting

I have the exact same thoughts on the number of missions (if the info is correct). 7 is a decent number for what they have been calling a "kick off" of the game.

I will be looking forward to the reviews or impressions on the freedom of gameplay and size of the levels. If they are as good as Blood Money, then I am definitely getting this.

 

[btags]

I am sure many will disagree but I think this is the best thing they could have done for the franchise. This distribution model just seems to make sense with the nature of the game. Also, on a side note, why is everyone always so confused about how KI's pricing works. You can buy individual characters for $5, a season for $20, or the ultra version of a season which has more accessories and older KI games for $40. That is not that complicated.

 

[dark_inferno]

Oh god. More than one "season" sounds great.

7 missions are okay. We get new side targets every 24(?) or so hours, Huge Maps etc

Hopefully retail comes asap.

 

[Gamezone]

I'll just wait till the whole entire game is out.

Same as me. I want a physical copy of pretty much everything, and im not buying the game twice.

 

[Foffy]

Oh god. More than one "season" sounds great.

7 missions are okay. We get new side targets every 24(?) or so hours, Huge Maps etc

Hopefully retail comes asap.

Retail comes when the game has all of its content out. That's any point in 2016, and they've not stated what the end is.

I imagine these timed targets may come out weekly or bi-weekly, one for each level, and when all have been done they might release the second season.

 

[kurahador]

I can even remember the times when Ritual tried to release Sin as an episodic game. That went stellar... -.-

........Sin Episodes was released in 2006.

Did you blacked out a whole 9 years or something?

 

[DSix]

Oh well, I can wait for the cheaper and more complete version.

 

[Metal-Geo]

........Sin Episodes was released in 2006.

Did you blacked out a whole 9 years or something?

Cancelled after the first episode (Emergence was it called?). I almost distinctly remeber their news post announcing the cancellation.

 

[anonymous_abc]

........Sin Episodes was released in 2006.

Did you blacked out a whole 9 years or something?

It's just the first example of episodic gaming gone horribly wrong that came to mind.

 

[dark_inferno]

Cancelled after the first episode (Emergence was it called?). I almost distinctly remeber their news post announcing the cancellation.

At a time where steam wasnt really that popular. Also there were no sales, Indie Bundle etc.

Now there is a good chance that an episodic game could have a great success. I mean if a shitfest like Life is Strange is successful than a Game like Hitman will have no problem to be a big hit.

 

[Messi]

IO on Twitter

We're seeing some inaccurate reports about how many missions will be in HITMAN. We'll have something official & detailed to share very soon.

 

[Drazgul]

I can't see the model working for a retail game at that price, gamers are basically having to make an investment for the full product; but now I think about it, 7 levels is quite a few levels worth in terms of Hitman length, maybe the player investment will be worthwhile.

7 levels in the same vein of Blood Money would be fine by me. Anyone who only plays the levels through once is missing the point of Hitman anyway.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

IO on Twitter

"Its actually just five missions sorry ya'll"

7 levels in the same vein of Blood Money would be fine by me. Anyone who only plays the levels through once is missing the point of Hitman anyway.

You don't move on to the next level until you got Silent Assassin. That's the rule.

 

[oti]

I could've sworn the game is 60$ and you don't have to pay for anything else.

Oh no, you're right. Pay 60 once and you get the missions they'll add later. What I'm trying to say is that 7 isn't the final count of missions, that doesn't mean the additonal missions are free since you pay for them upfront that's all.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

If each level is as big as the one they demoed at E3, I think seven missions is pretty good. There'll be lots of replay value, lots of exploring to pull off the perfect assassinations, lots of messing around as well as sub-objectives, etc.

 

[FrontalMonk]

"Its actually just five missions sorry ya'll"



You don't move on to the next level until you got Silent Assassin. That's the rule.

Patently false. You go through the whole game, level by level, and you take your shitty ranks and you like them. Then you go back and Silent Assassin every level in order. Then you go back again to the missions that pissed you off to SA and annihilate every goddamn guard in the building. THAT'S the rule.

 

[AgentLampshade]

Given that Blood Money had 11 excluding the first and last levels, 7 seems okay for a beginning. If the rest are released consistently and of high calibre, then I'm A-OK with this.

 

[FrontalMonk]

IO on Twitter

Aren't they having a panel or something about this at pax prime tomorrow? We'll probably get all the official deets then.