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Hollow Knight: Silksong |OT| It’s SHAW-time!!!!
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
- Featured
Josemayuste
Member
I think the boss
Also the sound design is best in class, truly impressive
Fess
Member
The game is super hard but I thought the same thing about Hollow Knight in my first playthrough. I think if they had made it easier it would've lacked a challenge for those who went through HK and people would've complained about that instead and would've already plowed through it 100%.
I expect to play this for a long time. Still on Act 1. So far it's my GOTY.
I expect to play this for a long time. Still on Act 1. So far it's my GOTY.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I feel like replaying Hollow Knight a week before Silksong released helped me with the dificulty, I thought HK was hard when it first came out, frustratingly so but beat it. This last playthrough was hard but I pushed through it and now with Silk Song I feel like I'm doing pretty good!
Jsisto
Member
Can't remember the last time I've laughed this hard at a post on neogaf.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Lmao. Reminds me of that game journalist who had to turn on cheat mods to beat Sekiro.
Look the game is, like most, hard at first. Once you get the reaper crest you'll be sitting pretty.
That said the worst parts of the game are traversal before it, and the bosses that spawn infinite minions. Aside from that it seems so far like an improvement over HK in every way.
Definitely NOT worth a 8 year dev cycle though. Like if it took 8 years and this all you cooked up, then hire 3 more guys to get it out in 4 years.
EruditeHobo
Member
Always analog, for me. Only game I use d-pad for is Tekken. Hate fight sticks and just can't use analog on that one, makes zero sense to me.
I heard from a friend who loves Celeste that it is one of the few platformers where d-pad not just makes sense, but is in some places necessary... or maybe I'm misremembering, and my friend said he played on d-pad but HAD to use analog for some sections? Either way, I haven't played that one.
EruditeHobo
Member
Agreed. To be fair I don't play many contemporary games anymore, I may make my way to the supposed best of the year eventually like Expedition 33, DS2, Sword & Sea, Shinobi, etc... but yeah, worthy GOTY candidate. I'm sure it will 100% be on my short list, at a minimum.
kevboard
Member
Dpad always makes sense in 2D games that allow it. playing this game on an analog stick sounds horrific to me. way to slow and no precision for diagonal inputs.
kevboard
Member
the first boss that I felt was actually difficult to me so far was the Widow, which is the last boss I did today.
and even that one, after like 5 tries you probably have the pattern down and beat her with barely getting a scratch.
I heard some of the last few bosses are insane... so, let's see how hard it really gets lol
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DownLikeBCPowder
Member
With so many people complaining about the difficulty, I'm really tempted to play this game despite having never touched Hollow Knight.
kevboard
Member
if you're good at 2D action platformer type stuff, it's not that hard.
so if you played Mega Man X4 as Zero for example, you'll have little to no issue here.
it's really just the souls-lite element, that you can lose your currency, that makes you play a bit safer than other Metroidvanias and makes it feel a bit more tense.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
The last judge is a perfect example of why this game sucks dicks.
I asked myself like I always do when I'm playing something numerous times today "Am I having fun?" The answer was no all but one time.
The issue here isn't really the judge. I will beat it. It'll take some time. But the abysmal giant middle finger, 0 respect for the players time, 0 improvement across 8 years from your previous game, 0 willingness to listen to what others have now come to expect as the must have is —- do not make the player trek back SO fucking far to attempt the boss.
The path back is riddled with jump pogo and enemies that fight in obtuse ways ready to take 2 health bars at any given chance. The boss? Ready to melt you on 2, count them 2, fucking hits.
This is an egregious abuse of players patience and time to hide behind the veil of difficulty. Even Miyazaki said fuck bonfires that are 4 miles away long ago.
Learn from the best. 8 years and 0 core improvements to what the issues are with your first game is just flat out spitting on the player and being a douchebag for the sake of being a douche bag.
I asked myself like I always do when I'm playing something numerous times today "Am I having fun?" The answer was no all but one time.
The issue here isn't really the judge. I will beat it. It'll take some time. But the abysmal giant middle finger, 0 respect for the players time, 0 improvement across 8 years from your previous game, 0 willingness to listen to what others have now come to expect as the must have is —- do not make the player trek back SO fucking far to attempt the boss.
The path back is riddled with jump pogo and enemies that fight in obtuse ways ready to take 2 health bars at any given chance. The boss? Ready to melt you on 2, count them 2, fucking hits.
This is an egregious abuse of players patience and time to hide behind the veil of difficulty. Even Miyazaki said fuck bonfires that are 4 miles away long ago.
Learn from the best. 8 years and 0 core improvements to what the issues are with your first game is just flat out spitting on the player and being a douchebag for the sake of being a douche bag.
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Shifty1897
Member
Project Manager logic: if it takes 3 devs 8 years to make Silksong, then 48 devs can make the sequel to Silksong in 6 months!
BRB currently finding 9 women who can work together to grow a baby in a month.
Halfkut
Member
Got to the last judge last night. Took me 10 tries and then when I finally beat the cunt he trolled me and I died and had to do it all again
I was going to come on here and bitch and cry about how it's bad game design, not play tested and that I'm 40 with kids and blah blah blah
But then I decided not to be a pussy and a sore loser and try again.
Beat him on my 3rd attempt and now I'm fuckin stoked I didn't give up.
People claim the rewards for beating bosses suck. That feeling you get from not giving up is the best reward you can get!
That's what the games about, over coming it's challenges
Fair enough if you don't jive with it but stop with the weak ass excuses, your embarrassing yourselves
I was going to come on here and bitch and cry about how it's bad game design, not play tested and that I'm 40 with kids and blah blah blah
But then I decided not to be a pussy and a sore loser and try again.
Beat him on my 3rd attempt and now I'm fuckin stoked I didn't give up.
People claim the rewards for beating bosses suck. That feeling you get from not giving up is the best reward you can get!
That's what the games about, over coming it's challenges
Fair enough if you don't jive with it but stop with the weak ass excuses, your embarrassing yourselves
Kacho
Member
You are an emotional roller coaster in here
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
finally unlocked another town and upraded my weapon
I'm going with the reaper crest
more range is always better even if its just a little bit
I'm going with the reaper crest
more range is always better even if its just a little bit
ssringo
Member
Alright, the crest options weren't really doing it for me but then along came a new contender.
Keep your puny ass needle, I'll be over here with my...
Keep your puny ass needle, I'll be over here with my...
Architect's Crest locked behind the associated door. 2 blue, 2 yellow and 3(!) red, one of which replaces your R1. Great for folks like me that don't really use the special and save it for the heal. Plus you have the option of using silk (same amount as heal) to craft more tools on the fly! Still costs shards but it's opened up much more tool usage.
decisions
Member
This game is great but some decisions are just totally bizarre. The Last Judge runback is just incredibly stupid, it's not that the fight is too difficult it's that it gets boring to do the runback over and over again.
I also dislike how hidden some of the main quest stuff is. I spent like 3 hours searching different areas for a main boss, then once I beat it I got a ton of quests that required me to go search those some areas. But there was essentially nothing indicating how to find the boss.
I also dislike how hidden some of the main quest stuff is. I spent like 3 hours searching different areas for a main boss, then once I beat it I got a ton of quests that required me to go search those some areas. But there was essentially nothing indicating how to find the boss.
EruditeHobo
Member
To be fair to your point, I was fucking up a number of my down attacks in my first... several hours.
I'm finding all the bosses a blast after just beating this one and the run backs hasn't bother me much at all until this boss. I have a suspicion that they deliberately put that run back in there so they can showcase the movement when you can speed run through it, and yeah I mean it looks cool and all but it's so fucking tedious after numerous attempts at the boss, no excuse for that kind of design at all nowadays. Kinda got a feeling that act 2 might be worse in the regard.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I am not asking for an easy mode or reduced difficulty. I am asking for non retarded game design.
This games core function is to piss the player off in every chance it gets the further you get in.
I got to act 2 but realized oh I have this bile place open. Hours wandering no map for it. Hours wandering in the mist trying to figure out how to progress and finally figure "it" out. Doesn't matter. Hours falling avoid wraiths. Finally make it through still no fucking checkpoints anywhere, no fucking caravan ride, no fucking map. Fine. Go into organ hut. Surely it's in here. Nope die, try again after 30 minutes to get back. Decide let's go past organ… oh wait more mist. No fuck that go back to organ. Die. Repeat process for hours trying above all to FIND A FUCKING checkpoint or map. Nope. Find boss instead.
This is the single shittiest designed game I have encountered. And the only reason I'll keep playing it is cuz I don't need fucking idiots saying shit like I got filtered or git gud. I can beat it but holy fuck this game sucks so much dicks.
Why? Why are checkpoints so hard to do team cherry? You guys had 8 years to fix your one shit flaw in HK and you doubled fucking down and made it worse.
Mind boggling these 3 retards even know how to code.
/rant
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
It is so much worse lol…. If the mist area is correct and there literally is no checkpoint in mist or organ…. Jesus Christ. It'll take the cake.
TheDarkPhantom
Member
The music in the Choral Chambers 
Love how Act II continues to subvert expectations and qfter 18 hours I'm comfortable declaring this as a top 5 of the genre, for all it's little faults it's still undeniably an immaculate game in how it looks, feels and sounds, guaranteed to be on the GOTY short-list this year.
Edit: and Bugs of Pharloom quest complete, just need to find a way back to my little friend...
Love how Act II continues to subvert expectations and qfter 18 hours I'm comfortable declaring this as a top 5 of the genre, for all it's little faults it's still undeniably an immaculate game in how it looks, feels and sounds, guaranteed to be on the GOTY short-list this year.Edit: and Bugs of Pharloom quest complete, just need to find a way back to my little friend...
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Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I liked the original Hollow Knight, but always found it to be pretty heavily overrated. Good game, but I didn't think the environments felt distinctive enough and I wasn't a huge fan of the music.
Silksong is the game I wanted Hollow Knight to be, and the first 2D Metroidvania since uh... well, I guess Super Metroid and SOTN that's really nailed that feeling of meaningful exploration and the thrill of discovering new parts of the world. And the music is great this time around.
For me, Metroidvania is more of a feeling than a game design blueprint. Most games approach the genre by focusing on the obvious, surface-level "get this upgrade to access this part of the map, rinse and repeat" routine. Silksong, by contrast, focuses on a long-term endpoint rather than a series of obvious short-term objectives, and throws you into the deep end. And that pushes you to get lost in the world just for the sake of it, and there's a feeling of each new area being alien and a little scary; yet it's super exciting to slowly but surely get your bearings in each new environ and gradually unravel the world. Super Metroid and SOTN were incredible effective at evoking that same feeling, and that's why those games have always been favorites of mine.
So yeah, I think Silksong is incredibly good. Easily a 10/10 so far.
Silksong is the game I wanted Hollow Knight to be, and the first 2D Metroidvania since uh... well, I guess Super Metroid and SOTN that's really nailed that feeling of meaningful exploration and the thrill of discovering new parts of the world. And the music is great this time around.
For me, Metroidvania is more of a feeling than a game design blueprint. Most games approach the genre by focusing on the obvious, surface-level "get this upgrade to access this part of the map, rinse and repeat" routine. Silksong, by contrast, focuses on a long-term endpoint rather than a series of obvious short-term objectives, and throws you into the deep end. And that pushes you to get lost in the world just for the sake of it, and there's a feeling of each new area being alien and a little scary; yet it's super exciting to slowly but surely get your bearings in each new environ and gradually unravel the world. Super Metroid and SOTN were incredible effective at evoking that same feeling, and that's why those games have always been favorites of mine.
So yeah, I think Silksong is incredibly good. Easily a 10/10 so far.
ByWatterson
Member
It's missing something. A sense of adventure. Dunno. Something.
DelireMan7
Member
Sounds like you don't enjoy your time and should just move on to another game.
Nobody really cares if you beat it or not.
I am still early in the game (17h, in Act 1) and can see some friction points and acknowledge it's not for everyone.
TheDarkPhantom
Member
Finding them fleas
PanzerAzel
Member
The music is good and fitting for setting the mood, but as someone noted earlier, I'm finding it to all kind of blend together. While I'm still in Act I so admittedly early, I've not yet heard a tune of distinction comparable to, say, The Mantis Lords or Hornet's battle themes.
I'm hoping that will change as I progress, and I'm not saying the music is bad, anything but, but in terms of any tracks I've heard that stand notable….I'm still waiting.
TheDarkPhantom
Member
Went from never having enough rosary beads to overflowing with rosary beads and nothing to spend them on, I see you Team Cherry, well played 
ssringo
Member
Did those areas last night myself, there is a bench. I had to attempt the boss a few times and that particular runback wasn't a problem. Just woke up and my brain is still a bit muddled so I might be mixing it up but...
It wasn't far from the boss. Runback was up the pipe where you dropped the broken elevator and past 2(?) of the tubes hot water drops from. That bench might have been one you need to attack the debris to clear it off/make it appear.
If necessary I can get on my Deck and double check it once I get work.
Edit: verified the above. screenshot in spoiler
Steam Community :: Screenshot :: bench by Phantom
Steam Community: Hollow Knight: Silksong. bench by Phantom
that drop on the right side goes to the broken elevator
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BbMajor7th
Member
For me, Team Cherry have the most uniquely oppressive design in the industry. I'm a big FromSoft guy and though I've sometimes hated on their design, I normally end up feeling pretty good, even if I've had to burst a blood vessel running a boss 30 times over. Hollow Knight should have been my dream game (I love Metroidvanias), but I always found their design so hostile and oppressive, so unrewarding and 'fuck-you'-flavoured that I never really had a good time.
It's little things, like making you pay for rewards after you've just fought through a really tough area: you lost of most of your Geo, but you persevered and made it through in the end. Then you find a lift, or a fast travel or a bench, but they want you to pay out 200 Geo a piece to unlock them and - well, fuck - you have no money. You're low on health but you've got not choice but to grind out Geo and risk losing the progress. It's spending the first few hours buying all the shit that most games just give you for nothing, like a map, a way to update it, a compass to see where you are, a few pins for key locations, the ability to hoover up Geo rather than jump around picking up every single bit. It's just baseline stuff you need rather than are excited to buy - the gaming equivalent of paying a utility bill. In that way, HK just felt like a 'living on the breadline' simulator, where everything you get is barely enough to keep you going and there's no real scope for treating yourself. Hell, in the mid-game I wound up with way too much Geo and nothing to spend it on, which was also depressing. I gave it to the bank manager (who I had to pay to open the account) thinking it would come in handy later, who stole it. Had I not looked up where to find him and get it back, I probably would have never got it back...
So yeah, I kinda think the design sucks for that reason, but a lot of people loved it, so I guess I'm the outlier...
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DelireMan7
Member
On this specifically I want to say this is the most hilarious quest I've seen in a game. I literally laugh to tear at the end of it. You do get back your money at the end.
But I hear your complaints. I guess for a metroidvanias purist or fan, the fact that you have to get the map, the compass... it feels like a regression compare to staple of the genre.
Not all game is for everyone. I feel the same for Death Stranding. I heard so much praise and wanted to love it so much but I can only see a game filled with boring and useless mechanics to make the player feels miserable. For some it's the greatest game ever.
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Nocty
Currently Steaming
I find it endearing personally that the game often forces you to spend hard-earned Geo on basic necessities like maps, fast travel, and benches, making progress feel like constantly paying utility bills rather than rewarding upgrades. While this creates a "living on the breadline" vibe that myself and many other people enjoy, I'm sorry for you it just felt punishing and unrewarding..
Souls in the Fromsoft games often fent expendable in that sense after a while because you know you can just go farm or invade to get shitloads of souls quickly. While you can grind in this, it's far more tedious and time consuming which is deliberate to put you off wasting your supplies imo.
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Punished Miku
Banned
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Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
looks like the only place i haven't explored fully is a ghostly area called "the mists" so that must be the way forward. Unfortunately its one of those lost woods situations where you go this way then that way then get warped back to the start until you guess the right way. Starting to think the game might be more enjoyable with a guide. I'll keep at it in guessy ghost mists for now
DelireMan7
Member
To be clear I was speaking about Death Stranding not Silksong xD
ssringo
Member
It's a neat place but I don't recall seeing much of a hint on how to find your way through. There's a very basic one but it's not completely intuitive I don't think. I may have missed or forgotten something from earlier in the game though so /shrug.
On the screen just before you first enter the mist there are glowing butterflies that fly to the exit. The butterflies are the key.
Stand near the butterflies and play music with your needle. Follow butterflies. Eventually you'll get through. The path seems to be randomized.
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
thx. glad I looked at the spoiler. I had figured out that the butterflies were some kind of clue and was trying to follow or touch all of them or something. I was certainly not even remotely thinking of playing the music. So I've just been going round and round in circles dodging ghosts.
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Ogbert
Member
Fun.
John Bilbo
Gold Member
I wish the field of view was a bit larger.
Also it might have been a good idea to have the player choose a crest in the beginning of the game to play with as a starting class. So far finding the different crests have been subpar rewards.
Also it might have been a good idea to have the player choose a crest in the beginning of the game to play with as a starting class. So far finding the different crests have been subpar rewards.
TheDarkPhantom
Member
Courier Rasher....oh boy 
TheDarkPhantom
Member
Whiteward = Iosefka's Clinic, let's fucking go