LifeBrandRobot
Member
Cool cool thanks.
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Horizon Zero Dawn SPOILERS Thread
- Thread starter vivekTO
- Start date
Cool cool thanks.
is that from a GAF relationship thread?
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Sooo The Forbidden West = DLC right?? Sounds way too interesting for the devs not to show it to us.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Some of the corrupted Sobeck reports don't seem to become available after a while. Is there a trigger for that post ending?
MegaSackman
Member
They become available moments before the final mission, the ones that remain corrupted are actually repaired, just check the following data files right next to them, they're the same.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Ah, thanks!
So I platinum'd Horizon last week just before heading out to Utah for several days of field work. Exploring the real world areas that Horizon's world emulates (the Wasatch Front and the northern Colorado Plateau) has just deepened my appreciation for the game's incredible look and feel. Driving through canyons listening to the soundtrack has been great (my jams are City on the Mesa Part 3 and Meridian, Shining, Part 3).
During my first few hours with Horizon I thought it was a little too 'gamey', as in, here's the towers, here's the bandit camps, here's your checklist of errands to do, etc. While I still think they could ditch some of these cliches, now that I've had time to reflect I really think this is one of the best games of the decade. Guerrilla did such a great job with world building and making the environments feel real.
That all said, there is no f'ing way that the Glen Canyon Dam will still be around and intact in 1000 years (Lake Powell, behind it, is the big lake in the southeast of the map).
During my first few hours with Horizon I thought it was a little too 'gamey', as in, here's the towers, here's the bandit camps, here's your checklist of errands to do, etc. While I still think they could ditch some of these cliches, now that I've had time to reflect I really think this is one of the best games of the decade. Guerrilla did such a great job with world building and making the environments feel real.
That all said, there is no f'ing way that the Glen Canyon Dam will still be around and intact in 1000 years (Lake Powell, behind it, is the big lake in the southeast of the map).
I finished the game last night, and what a fantastic experience that was. I'm glad that the game managed to answer many of the mysteries they laid before us and at the same time, leave quite a few unanswered. Mysteries such as what caused HADES to go rogue, or what happened to the other subroutines, (sub-components? sub-functions? what was the actual term they used?) or how much of an asshole Ted Faro was. Oh, wait, I think they answered that last one.
Anyway, I've read some of the posts from the previous pages and read up on the wiki but still want to clarify some things.
The "derangement" and the corruption of machines are two separate things, right? The former being the machines becoming violent and attacking humans, etc. while the latter is the corruption from the FARO Machines, making them attack anything and everything? HEPHAESTEUS caused the derangement in order to protect the machines from the humans and allow them to finish their work to re-terraform the planet. Which obviously meant creating tyrannosaurus rex-like machines to defend the smaller ones. Of course. So the corruption came from HADES and the Eclipse resurrecting the FARO Machines and the latter, well, corrupting the other machines.
Also, I guess we have to assume that the metal flowers are from DEMETER...? And the triangle thing is just because they've been doing it already? Oh, and I've seen people mention poems regarding the metal flowers. What poems? Are they something I'll get when I complete a set or something?
I wonder what the fuck Sylens is planning, though. I would hope that he wouldn't unleash HADES once again or, let himself be tricked into doing so. Then again, if all he did was potato it, it would be a bit of a letdown? Although... I suppose that would be quite a twist. Nah. Would be too low-key and anticlimactic. He's definitely a Banuk, though, right? Those weird-ass blue things and all.
Anyway, I've read some of the posts from the previous pages and read up on the wiki but still want to clarify some things.
The "derangement" and the corruption of machines are two separate things, right? The former being the machines becoming violent and attacking humans, etc. while the latter is the corruption from the FARO Machines, making them attack anything and everything? HEPHAESTEUS caused the derangement in order to protect the machines from the humans and allow them to finish their work to re-terraform the planet. Which obviously meant creating tyrannosaurus rex-like machines to defend the smaller ones. Of course. So the corruption came from HADES and the Eclipse resurrecting the FARO Machines and the latter, well, corrupting the other machines.
Also, I guess we have to assume that the metal flowers are from DEMETER...? And the triangle thing is just because they've been doing it already? Oh, and I've seen people mention poems regarding the metal flowers. What poems? Are they something I'll get when I complete a set or something?
I wonder what the fuck Sylens is planning, though. I would hope that he wouldn't unleash HADES once again or, let himself be tricked into doing so. Then again, if all he did was potato it, it would be a bit of a letdown? Although... I suppose that would be quite a twist. Nah. Would be too low-key and anticlimactic. He's definitely a Banuk, though, right? Those weird-ass blue things and all.
Leithkorias
Member
So im on page 21 of 58 now and i keep reading about a glitch, id prefer not to endure 37 more pages before learning that you guys realized it wasnt a glitch....so my question is, have you guys realized it wasnt a glitch that made the faro robots attack humans?
Im about to go to sleep so, hopefully ill have the correct answer when i wake.
I just prefer that we have both games. More good games. No need for good games to replace each other.
Also has Nintendo now set us up for BoTW to be mentioned as the greatest open world game of all time in any open world game thread? I am not saying it not a good game but I really hope that the switch sales 50 million consoles so we don't have to constantly hear how perfect it is from the few people that actually played it. Which currently is like 99 percent Nintendo lovers. I hope the game gets played by a more diverse crowd. So things like 20 fps hard locks, lack of voice acting, a very large but very empty open world can actually be talked about. Once again not saying BoTW does not deserve praise. But what alot of games get Nick picked about aren't even in BOTW.
Also has Nintendo now set us up for BoTW to be mentioned as the greatest open world game of all time in any open world game thread? I am not saying it not a good game but I really hope that the switch sales 50 million consoles so we don't have to constantly hear how perfect it is from the few people that actually played it. Which currently is like 99 percent Nintendo lovers. I hope the game gets played by a more diverse crowd. So things like 20 fps hard locks, lack of voice acting, a very large but very empty open world can actually be talked about. Once again not saying BoTW does not deserve praise. But what alot of games get Nick picked about aren't even in BOTW.
Sounds about right to me. Sobek says in her presentation that the subordinate functions are not AI. There's no real intelligence behind them. They just relentlessly try to fulfill their goals, so without Gaia to oversee things the machines start treating humans as threats. The corruption is the old war machines using their built-in ability to slave other machines.
Click on the flowers in your collectibles menu. Took me a little while to notice it too.
I've seen the suggestion that the "glitch" was something intentionally caused by Ted Faro but not exactly what is was or why. I've also thought about the possibility is was caused by Vast Silver, the rogue climate control AI. I'm still working on collection all the world data points so I don't have all the info yet.
I thought that when Lis tells Ted she will tell everyone the "real reason for the glitch" if he doesn't sign, that it was a hint that it wasn't really a glitch.
Since there are no time stamps on the logs it's impossible to tell if the log about switching production to human weapons was before or after the glitch happens. I've been suspicious of Ted ever since I found that particular log.
I'm guessing there wasn't a "glitch" but more Ted being an arrogant greedy ass hole with a bit of a god complex. His hubris in things like requesting there be no possible backdoor to the Faro machines, to delaying a response to it until things became far too late and so on.
I'm dreaming about a sequel covering Nevada (Deserts/plains) and then arriving in California.
According to the logs, the assault of the Swarm on the coast was super brutal if memory serves, so the scenery could be still pretty apocalyptic, but I'm also very curious as to what was done with the Ocean, mechanical beast and habitat wise.
He's all surprised and panicked when he finds out there's no backdoor. It seems like he's the only one who knows the swarm has gone rogue at first too - the people who wrote the software have no idea. I found that suspicious as well. Usually developers would be monitoring systems like that and would know that something had gone wrong pretty quickly. It made me think that Ted was trying to be slick and secretively introduce a glitch so he could cause a little money making chaos before "heroically" shutting it down.
I'd like to see D.C. just so I could experience what it would be like with no traffic.
A derelict Air and Space Museum would be pretty amazing to explore too.
Mecha Snakes, Tarantula's, Scorpions, big horned sheep, brown bears.
I'd like to see flying mounts. I want to ride an eagle. A good way to take on a Hortus, especially if your mount will catch you mid air.
Thornton Reed
Member
Just finished the game. I got lost with the story somewhere. Was is giya making the more aggressive robots like the thunder jaw? If so why
Nope, she was dead. The caldrons without proper guidance we're operating independently. Their logs also show it seems something or someone was trying to breach them, so the more aggressive bots were being built to Cull the threats and Gaia wasn't there to set them straight.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
They employed scorched earth tactics to delay the swarm advance from the west - they basically nuked the swarm and vast coastal areas completely clean of life. The glyph talking about the Forbidden West mentions blue sand that seems to reflect the sky - I'm guessing it's talking areas covered in nuclear glass.
yeah I am guessing some areas are way harder to clean up than others. Also kind of explains why we need GAIA to continue her work, even though humanity has returned.
Maybe there will be a machine to take care of radiation?
Or is there already one and I just didn't put it together?
Aaronology
Member
GAIA is dead. The unknown signal awakened her subordinate functions into chaotic, out of control AIs. They all would have perished with her in the self destruct of the Prime facility but HADES broke their "chains" allowing himself and the others to escape. The derangement refers to the new hostility of previously docile machines along the advent of new machines specifically designed to attack humans. This is caused by HEPHAESTUS, the subfunction controlling machine creation. Without the guidance of GAIA, HEPHAESTUS has come to see humans as a threat to the terraforming project.
In his defense, humans kind of are. They've spent hundreds of years destroying the very machines making the earth habitable. Just as the subfunctions were never intended to operate without GAIA's guidance, the Zero Dawn project never intended future mankind to live without APOLLO in ignorance.
In short, fuck Ted Faro.
Hippolnareff
Member
It felt like GG/Horizon's characters were trying to give The Forbidden West some gravitas, people mention it quite often and there's a fair few datapoints describing it.
I think Aloy travelling that far for DLC sounds a little ambitious, I'm guessing it's the location for a possible sequel.
DLC I'm guessing will be similar to Blood & Wine and extend the map slightly - hopefully 1-2 new dinos too.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
I wonder if there will be a bigger animal presence in thhe follow-up considering Artemis should still be functional. I'm assuming that the only reason there aren't any predators is because GAIA doesn't want anything dangerous harming the humans.
Ooo that has me even more interested in seeing the west. They have an excuse to make the landscape a bit less natural looking. I can see Radiation replace Corruption as a status effect since there shouldn't be any Corruptors over there.
Ooo that has me even more interested in seeing the west. They have an excuse to make the landscape a bit less natural looking. I can see Radiation replace Corruption as a status effect since there shouldn't be any Corruptors over there.
Leithkorias
Member
Well by glitch i think she meant it more like "glitch."
Faros company was probably spinning it as a glitch in the beginning to head off the pr storm. Remember they had 100+ lawsuits filed against them (before things went to shit).
So then Ted speaks to his engineers about a back door, to push a service pack update to stop the faro bots from feeding on endangered species (like those dolphins) or anything else it shouldnt) which there is none.
Remember these are "peace" keeping robots, designed to be unhackable and certainly designed to identify and eliminate credible threats.
So what does ted do? Tries to hack them. Over and over.
Im on my way out the door to work but please read all the text datapoints-machines. There are ten and they are all short. It should explain everything.
At first i overlooked them because it looked like nonsensical computer gibberish. But when i paid closer attention it became quite....ominous.
I think we're saying the same thing?
I flat out thought he introduced a bug that made the swarm go rogue and expected he would be able to patch it later. There's also the log about starting wars between clients so that they'll buy more "peacekeeping" robots. In short, he was a huge dick.
Leithkorias
Member
Well....no not exactly. I dont think. Though i could be wrong, it seems like the robots started attacking humans as a result of the numerous attempts to hack them to stop them from feeding on biomass. In the text datapoints-machines you see the attempts to hack them. You see that they eventually determine its humans that are hacking them and they change their directive to elimante the threat. Humans.
Now maybe ted knew that would happen if they attempted to hack the bots, but they werent intended to go rogue from the start. He knew what would happen even though they had to try anyway. Hence the retooling of factories.
If they were eating all kinds of biomass at that point I'm assuming they were already eating humans as well and thus we were on the shit list no matter what.
Are you talking about the Cauldron logs? That's Hephaestus trying to reassert control after an intrusion from an unknown source.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
I think you're confused. There are two sets os Machine Datapoints: the OBSERVER logs and the M/ logs.
The OBSERVER logs are Tallneck logs. They're trying to retrieve pathing information from GAIA Prime, but since she blew the location up, they get nothing. They then ping a Tallneck network and get a response about how many of them are active. Since they get no pathing information, they keep walking in circles. The oldest log talks about human interference.
The M/ logs are cauldron logs and detail HEPHAESTUS trying to hack into their systems to change their programming, from making peaceful terraforming machines to making weaponized machines intended to cull humanity it now sees as a threat against the biosphere. The Theta/Zeta cauldron seems to have been disabled prior to the hack, by the way.
So no, these logs don't deal with the Faro Plague, they're much more recent.
I'm almost sure HEPHAESTUS is actually the one doing the hacking. I think that, as a subroutine, it didn't have direct access to the manufacturing facilities - GAIA probably held control over everything.
I sort of thought the whole Gaia rebooting thing was just some simple task Aloy needed to do after "killing" Hades. Was a bit disappointed we didn't see that in the ending, would have been neat to see Gaia up and running again, peaceful machines, etc.
Also it's almost laughable how unredeemable they made Ted Faro. Like, not only does he cause the death of every living thing on the planet, he also fucks up the one backup plan they barely scrapped together. I half expected his zombie corpse to show up at the end of the game, just to push Aloy off the spire.
Also it's almost laughable how unredeemable they made Ted Faro. Like, not only does he cause the death of every living thing on the planet, he also fucks up the one backup plan they barely scrapped together. I half expected his zombie corpse to show up at the end of the game, just to push Aloy off the spire.
Leithkorias
Member
Welp. Looks like i was mistaken.
She not only has to figure out how to reconstruct GAIA, she has to find all of her escaped subroutines as well.
Incendiary
Banned
Man, this game was amazing. I loved all of it and need to go back and read all the data logs for a further understanding of the plot since I was streaming my playthrough and didn't want to get bogged down in reading text walls.
After finishing it though, a couple things: the only Faro bots were the Corruptors, Deathbringers, and the Horus units, right? Everything else was made by Gaia/Hephaestus? And we can assume that all the "docile" collection machines were the original terraforming ones, and Hephaestus only created things like Sawtooths and Thunderjaws after the virus unchained him?
I also wish there hasn't been that data log about the spaceship exploding - that could have been a neat thread in the sequel, not that there aren't plenty of threads for Guerilla to follow. Really looking forward to getting to see Oseram and Banuk lands as well as other new tribes. God the possibilities are endless.
Also did they name all the AI subroutines in game? There's Gaia + Hades, Hephaestus, Minerva, Apollo, and Demeter as far as I remember, but there were 12 total, right? I think they're all listed in one of the holograms, but I can't remember if it was explained as to what each one did or if Guerilla set he selves up to have some sequel wiggle room.
I think the best part is Hephaestus being just out there doing his thing - it allows for and explains new robot creations in sequels. Also in true escalation, Hephaestus is probably going to recognize Aloy as an even bigger threat than regular humans and build Aloy-specific robots to try and take her down. That'll be fun!
After finishing it though, a couple things: the only Faro bots were the Corruptors, Deathbringers, and the Horus units, right? Everything else was made by Gaia/Hephaestus? And we can assume that all the "docile" collection machines were the original terraforming ones, and Hephaestus only created things like Sawtooths and Thunderjaws after the virus unchained him?
I also wish there hasn't been that data log about the spaceship exploding - that could have been a neat thread in the sequel, not that there aren't plenty of threads for Guerilla to follow. Really looking forward to getting to see Oseram and Banuk lands as well as other new tribes. God the possibilities are endless.
Also did they name all the AI subroutines in game? There's Gaia + Hades, Hephaestus, Minerva, Apollo, and Demeter as far as I remember, but there were 12 total, right? I think they're all listed in one of the holograms, but I can't remember if it was explained as to what each one did or if Guerilla set he selves up to have some sequel wiggle room.
I think the best part is Hephaestus being just out there doing his thing - it allows for and explains new robot creations in sequels. Also in true escalation, Hephaestus is probably going to recognize Aloy as an even bigger threat than regular humans and build Aloy-specific robots to try and take her down. That'll be fun!
Incendiary
Banned
Hmmm, interesting. So Aether, Poseidon, and Artemis weren't explained in game unless I'm misremembering. And I swore there were 12 AI but I guess that was a misremember too. Ah well, at least that's one question answered, thanks!
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Aether was tasked with cleaning the air, Poseidon with cleaning the water, and Artemis with reintroducing the bare minimum of animal life for a stable biosphere.
Question, Didn't the Zero Dawn team have copies of all facilities across the globe? If so, did Ted Faro actually destroy all instances of Apollo, or did he just destroy the US's Apollo archive?
Another interesting dynamic is that Hades taught Sylens many concepts like advanced calculus and physics. I thought only Apollo would have the ability to teach old world concepts, including math and science?
There are just so many places the story can go now. The fact that Gaia believes that Aloy can rebuild it, or at least get the AI to the point where it can advance itself, in her (Aloy's) lifetime must insinuate that there is a lot more knowledge of the old world out there outside of Faro robots.
I'm conflicted about the idea of Sylens actually being a potential villain. I still don't think he will be. The end of the game shows that captures Hades to find out who sent out the original rogue signal that awoke it. I assume that the origin of the signal would have to be Human right? I mean didn't hades send the original signal, which loosed the other subordinate functions?
Another interesting dynamic is that Hades taught Sylens many concepts like advanced calculus and physics. I thought only Apollo would have the ability to teach old world concepts, including math and science?
There are just so many places the story can go now. The fact that Gaia believes that Aloy can rebuild it, or at least get the AI to the point where it can advance itself, in her (Aloy's) lifetime must insinuate that there is a lot more knowledge of the old world out there outside of Faro robots.
I'm conflicted about the idea of Sylens actually being a potential villain. I still don't think he will be. The end of the game shows that captures Hades to find out who sent out the original rogue signal that awoke it. I assume that the origin of the signal would have to be Human right? I mean didn't hades send the original signal, which loosed the other subordinate functions?
Ted specifically says he deleted every single copy of Apollo in existence not just the one in the US. To the second part, all of the AI's had the required knowledge to do whatever their designed job was. I'm guessing Hades knew the most considering its job was to take over temporarily for Gaia and use everything she had under her command to undo the terraforming process. It seems even non essential old world data was saved by some of the AI's as each of the metal flowers has a poem that was written by an actual person in the real world so some knowledge did survive.
Incendiary
Banned
Ahhh. All that makes sense. Was that information in text or audio logs somewhere? I definitely need to go back and read all the data logs more closely when I have the chance.
I think it's partly that the Alphas would unintentionally kind of bleed a little extra information into each AI, and partly because for Hades to activate and do his job properly, he would have to have an understanding of how the world works and different aspects of science. All the subroutines are mini-AI and so to separate artificial intelligence from just being an executable program and/or robot, they'd have to all at least have some understanding of all basic concepts.
Like while Hades might know physics and calculus, he might not know who Albert Einstein or Isaac Newton was. Knowledge and history is more Apollo's realm, but basic functional knowledge is available to all the AI.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
Pretty much. Some of the terraforming robots were weaponized and repurposed, others, like the Stalker, are purpose built to hunt and kill humans.
That log isn't a first hand account, though - Elisabet is just communicating what she was told by Far Zenith. Thing is, FZ is super sketchy, with the thing of having a whole host of unknown investors and everything else. Chekhov's gun and all that. I don't think the writers would make so many mentions to the Odyssey, that it had an APOLLO copy and everything else if they didn't intended for it to become important at some point.
Also this is a little bit nitpicky, but it seems weird that the ZD Prime facility would have access to all the other Eleuthia facilities to delete the Apollo data (at least while Ted was still alive). Weren't they totally locked in and in hiding from the machines at that point? The entire reason Elisabet had to sacrifice herself was to close a tiny seal that could have let radio waves out. Seems like Gaia could only contact the other facilities once Minerva was complete.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Odyssey had an Apollo copy??? I was certain they were coming back before, but now I'm guaranteeing it.
Just finished the game, I loved it.
Buuuuuut. Who the fuck builds a sub-sytem called Hades? That shit was doomed from the start lol.
Also haven't you learned anything from building robots and AI? You go ahead and build another robotic system and on top of that you build a sub-system that has the ability to fuck shit up if -at this point WHEN- it goes rogue.
Buuuuuut. Who the fuck builds a sub-sytem called Hades? That shit was doomed from the start lol.
Also haven't you learned anything from building robots and AI? You go ahead and build another robotic system and on top of that you build a sub-system that has the ability to fuck shit up if -at this point WHEN- it goes rogue.
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