Support NeoGAF

[Lime]

Many of you are probably already familiar with how the different European countries have a problem with multiculturalism and accepting people from different cultures, ethnicities, skin color, etc. The topic has flared up recently in Germany, where protests by the Pegida movement have attracted several thousands of participants marching against "Islamic influences" (or whatever)

on Monday night, an estimated 15,000 people joined Pegida, or Patriotic Europeans Against Islamisation of the West, in a march through Dresden carrying banners bearing slogans such as “Zero tolerance towards criminal asylum seekers”, “Protect our homeland” and “Stop the Islamisation”.

Similarly we see that in France, Front National have been gaining wind throughout the last decade, while in the Netherlands the Partij voor de Vrijheid is the fourth largest political party at the moment. And In Denmark, the extremely nationalistic Danish People's Party are ahead in recent polls of even the biggest political parties, while Sweden is suffering from the Swedish Democrats, and Switzerland is famous for their Islamophobic policies. As Jon Wight writes:

Across the rest of Europe nationalist parties have seen their fortunes improve over the past five years of an economic recession caused by the failures of neoliberalism and the failure of the political mainstream to relegate this extreme variant of capitalism to history. Whether it is the Catalan separatist movement in Spain, Front National in France, Italy's Northern League. Allianz fur Deutschland in Germany, nationalism is not just enjoying a renewal in its fortunes, it is succeeding in influencing the mainstream political discourse.

I.e. these are cases where a lot of people become hostile and nationalistic against people from other cultures. The hostility is usually covered up in rhetorics of immigration, cultural differences between their national values and Islamic values, but it is mostly targeting people not fitting into what constitute a White Anglo-Saxon citizen. This is then manifested in immigration laws ("only people from special countries are allowed in here"), in city legislation ("no minarets in our city skyline"), in media discourse ("second-generation immigrants robbed a store yesterday"), in food values ("why can't food be swine in our school servings?"), and so on.

But how can this nationalism and racism be deterred and combated? 15 years ago I remember everyone talking about the decline of nationalism and how things would tide over once the public would allow the nationalistic political parties into public discourse, but instead I've witnessed a rise in nationalism, racism, and intolerance where I live. It doesn't help to ignore it, but at the same time giving these parties and worldviews a public platform allows them to poison the discourse. I seriously don't know what the best course of action is, because it seems like nothing will stop people from thinking immigration and other cultures are a weight on their society and that "*those* people should get out of *our* country".

 

[Elchele]

Immigration will always be a problem. Specially in the european cases where the main immigrants are islamic, that's a whole different culture than ours (western). In my opinion, immigrants should adapt to the new country culture.

You have to keep in mind what islamic culture represents for western people in todays world. Also, most immigrants are poor and go to Europe to take advantage of social policies and some of them just go and start their own criminal activities. Of course locals will get mad

I don't think racism is really that involved. Xenophobia would be more accurate

 

[Funky Papa]

Facing immigration issues in a frank manner instead of shoving them (and the people themselves) under the carpet would be a nice start.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

People have to believe in fairness and prosperity.

If they think that there are lowered standards for immigrants in terms of things like wages and values then they will think that it is not fair. If people think there are middle class "liberal" double standards where immigrants are seen as having unique cultural issues and locals are seen as being just human garbage when dealing with the same issues then it will not be seen as fair.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Hopefully in a better way than having them control Congress.

 

[Riposte]

The hostility is usually covered up in rhetorics of immigration, cultural differences between their national values and Islamic values, but it is mostly targeting people not fitting into what constitute a White Anglo-Saxon citizen.

Wouldn't this be difficult for nationalists in Spain, France, Italy, and Germany?

 

[obin_gam]

Educating the young generations to see that migration (either im or em) is a good thing and malthusianism is retarded is the best thing to do.

 

[Spineker]

How can you combat something that has existed for hundreds of years? It's not like Europe is troubled when it comes to access to education

 

[Funky Papa]

Wouldn't this be difficult for nationalists in Spain, France, Italy, and Germany?

Funnily enough, far right movements have basically evaporated in Spain. Not only the crisis didn't help them at all, but it channeled the angry vote towards the hard left.

I generally despise my compatriots, but that's something they've finally done right. Now if they could also stop voting for the PP...

 

[Lime]

Facing immigration issues in a frank manner instead of shoving them (and the people themselves) under the carpet would be a nice start.

We did that in Denmark and look where it took us. Not saying that shoving them under the carpet is the solution, but that facing them in a frank manner *needs* to be done in a proper way, otherwise you end up fucking up the political landscape as what we've seen in Denmark in the last 15 years.

If you address it the way that these nationalistic parties want to, i.e. that you're not a real German/Dane/Brit/etc. if you're Brown or don't eat Swine or don't adopt the majoritarian culture, then the rhetoric and playing field of the entire conversation is dragged down to an offensive level. If you legitimize these parties, you legitimize their views on other human beings.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Not fueling their persecution complex would be a start. Abolish memorial and hate speech laws

 

[hobblygobbly]

By actually dealing with the obvious immigration issues. The reason these racist movements and stuff are occurring is because for years now people had raised concerns over the immigration, politicians that could do something about it had been ignoring it because it's always a touchy subject in Europe and politicians are outright scared of coming off as racist with policies. The bigots are there to take the place and be the "face" of the issue now. This is where the movements/parties are coming from and they are sadly gaining a lot of traction because of it.

These people are becoming more and more frustrated and there are leaders that are racist/bigoted to take the place and "listen" to the concerns of these people instead, that's why they are growing in such support. The root issue stems from ignoring the problem in the first place which is a problem in all European countries. Immigration is a problem and it's putting a huge, huge strain on the welfare of countries, Germany and Sweden's welfare system is under dire strain because of it. The politicians that can do something about it aren't doing anything about immigration basically.

The current issues of immigration is not a matter of diversity/culture particularly (that's reserved for the bigots), many people are concerned about the strain it is putting and don't hold bigoted views, then you have those that do hold bigoted views and exploit the obvious immigration issue to boost their agenda and gain support since no one else is listening to the immigration problem and seems like the only solution. Now it has all spiralled out of control.

 

[Don Chalupa]

Abandon the euro, or reform the Eurozone. As long as countries have to answer to an outside authority, especially a creditor that demands pay cuts and the sale of national assets only to service debt, and keep the international bankers happy... these movements will continue to spring up and gain strength.

 

[HolyBaikal]

I'm pretty familiar with the European New Right, as not innocent and cute as that is...
It's because of things like black metal, folk metal, neofolk, and martial industrial. And people like Julius Evola and Troy Southgate.

If you haven't heard of them... Julius Evola was a super male supremacist who didn't like the modern world and wanted to ethnic pride and hypermasculnity. And he believed that all religions had some spiritual truth. And Troy Southgate is a white nationalist who believes that there shouldn't be a state, so he identifies as an Anarchist. But he also believes that white people should use being stateless to separate themselves from other races.

He believes the the state is oppressing white people. :/
So.. without the state... white people would start going their own way and separate themselves from other races...

He's also a biosexist who disagrees with feminism because he things it "goes against women's nature", and that "homosexuality is unnatural" because it doesn't make reproduction. He kind of talks like a GamerGate type person...

I try to empathize with everyone. But viewpoints like this are really sad. And I hope they don't become more popular and spread. In their music, I can hear how they love ancient European culture. How much it's romantic and beautiful to them. And that's true, but I think all cultures of the world are beautiful, and belong to everyone.

You can enjoy classical European culture and folk culture without being separatist and possessive of it. And you can preserve and save cultures, without them being separate. People being separate is just as tragic as cultures disappearing.

Instead of being exclusive and too prideful, we should all share our cultures with the world. Without worrying about silly things like "nationalism" or "ethnic pride" or "cultural appropriation".

H.E.R.R.'s music albums are really pretty things about European culture. It's sad that one one made an album about Vondel's Lucifer like that. But anyone could do that, no matter what their race or ethnicity is. Japan makes RPGs and other video games about ancient European culture all the time. And Japanese RPGs romanticize European culture every bit as much as neofolk. And they make military bombastic music and games, too. Like Valkyria Chronicles.

In the end, I try not to worry about it too much. Because people have told me that the European New Right is very uncommon and probably won't become very popular. I hope?

 

[ComputerMKII]

I'm pretty familiar with the European New Right, as not innocent and cute as that is...
It's because of things like black metal, folk metal, neofolk, and martial industrial. And people like Julius Evola and Troy Southgate.

If you haven't heard of them... Julius Evola was a super male supremacist who didn't like the modern world and wanted to ethnic pride and hypermasculnity. And he believed that all religions had some spiritual truth. And Troy Southgate is a white nationalist who believes that there shouldn't be a state, so he identifies as an Anarchist. But he also believes that white people should use being stateless to separate themselves from other races.

He believes the the state is oppressing white people. :/
So.. without the state... white people would start going their own way and separate themselves from other races...

He's also a biosexist who disagrees with feminism because he things it "goes against women's nature", and that "homosexuality is unnatural" because it doesn't make reproduction. He kind of talks like a GamerGate type person...

I try to empathize with everyone. But viewpoints like this are really sad. And I hope they don't become more popular and spread. In their music, I can hear how they love ancient European culture. How much it's romantic and beautiful to them. And that's true, but I think all cultures of the world are beautiful, and belong to everyone.

You can enjoy classical European culture and folk culture without being separatist and possessive of it. And you can preserve and save cultures, without them being separate. People being separate is just as tragic as cultures disappearing.

Instead of being exclusive and too prideful, we should all share our cultures with the world. Without worrying about silly things like "nationalism" or "ethnic pride" or "cultural appropriation".

H.E.R.R.'s music albums are really pretty things about European culture. It's sad that one one made an album about Vondel's Lucifer like that. But anyone could do that, no matter what their race or ethnicity is. Japan makes RPGs and other video games about ancient European culture all the time. And Japanese RPGs romanticize European culture every bit as much as neofolk. And they make military bombastic music and games, too. Like Valkyria Chronicles.

In the end, I try not to worry about it too much. Because people have told me that the European New Right is very uncommon and probably won't become very popular. I hope?

I think pagans are just a minority of far-right activists. I bet you'd find a lot more traditionalist christians - which makes for a weird kind of alliance but hey, that's nationalism for you.

 

[obin_gam]

I'm pretty familiar with the European New Right, as not innocent and cute as that is...
It's because of things like black metal, folk metal, neofolk, and martial industrial. And people like Julius Evola and Troy Southgate.

If you haven't heard of them... Julius Evola was a super male supremacist who didn't like the modern world and wanted to ethnic pride and hypermasculnity. And he believed that all religions had some spiritual truth. And Troy Southgate is a white nationalist who believes that there shouldn't be a state, so he identifies as an Anarchist. But he also believes that white people should use being stateless to separate themselves from other races.

He believes the the state is oppressing white people. :/
So.. without the state... white people would start going their own way and separate themselves from other races...

He's also a biosexist who disagrees with feminism because he things it "goes against women's nature", and that "homosexuality is unnatural" because it doesn't make reproduction. He kind of talks like a GamerGate type person...

I try to empathize with everyone. But viewpoints like this are really sad. And I hope they don't become more popular and spread. In their music, I can hear how they love ancient European culture. How much it's romantic and beautiful to them. And that's true, but I think all cultures of the world are beautiful, and belong to everyone.

You can enjoy classical European culture and folk culture without being separatist and possessive of it. And you can preserve and save cultures, without them being separate. People being separate is just as tragic as cultures disappearing.

Instead of being exclusive and too prideful, we should all share our cultures with the world. Without worrying about silly things like "nationalism" or "ethnic pride" or "cultural appropriation".

H.E.R.R.'s music albums are really pretty things about European culture. It's sad that one one made an album about Vondel's Lucifer like that. But anyone could do that, no matter what their race or ethnicity is. Japan makes RPGs and other video games about ancient European culture all the time. And Japanese RPGs romanticize European culture every bit as much as neofolk. And they make military bombastic music and games, too. Like Valkyria Chronicles.

In the end, I try not to worry about it too much. Because people have told me that the European New Right is very uncommon and probably won't become very popular. I hope?

huh?

 

[Renzoku]

Well for one, immigration in Europe seems to be tied to the hip with the rise of Islam, something that I wouldn't be happy about if I were living there. Not because I'm singling out Islam, but because I believe in religious tolerance in the sense that I tolerate your right to practice your dogmas within your own home, not to push your bullshit onto the rest of society.

So I figure when people start seeing that immigrants bring with them a culture heavily interwoven into their religion, they might not be too happy when that culture/religion starts clashing with their own, and instead of blaming the belief system, they take their anger out on the indoctrinated individuals who are importing this unwanted ideology.

As to the rest of the issues that have to do with immigration such as jobs, education, quality of life, etc. I don't really have any thoughts on it as Europe is a diverse place, and I don't live there. I think the religious angle is the only one I can understand, but only to a point obviously. I don't condone people being attacked or driven out of the country or anything like that.

 

[Funky Papa]

I'm pretty familiar with the European New Right, as not innocent and cute as that is...
It's because of things like black metal, folk metal, neofolk, and martial industrial. And people like Julius Evola and Troy Southgate.

If you haven't heard of them... Julius Evola was a super male supremacist who didn't like the modern world and wanted to ethnic pride and hypermasculnity. And he believed that all religions had some spiritual truth. And Troy Southgate is a white nationalist who believes that there shouldn't be a state, so he identifies as an Anarchist. But he also believes that white people should use being stateless to separate themselves from other races.

He believes the the state is oppressing white people. :/
So.. without the state... white people would start going their own way and separate themselves from other races...

He's also a biosexist who disagrees with feminism because he things it "goes against women's nature", and that "homosexuality is unnatural" because it doesn't make reproduction. He kind of talks like a GamerGate type person...

I try to empathize with everyone. But viewpoints like this are really sad. And I hope they don't become more popular and spread. In their music, I can hear how they love ancient European culture. How much it's romantic and beautiful to them. And that's true, but I think all cultures of the world are beautiful, and belong to everyone.

You can enjoy classical European culture and folk culture without being separatist and possessive of it. And you can preserve and save cultures, without them being separate. People being separate is just as tragic as cultures disappearing.

Instead of being exclusive and too prideful, we should all share our cultures with the world. Without worrying about silly things like "nationalism" or "ethnic pride" or "cultural appropriation".

H.E.R.R.'s music albums are really pretty things about European culture. It's sad that one one made an album about Vondel's Lucifer like that. But anyone could do that, no matter what their race or ethnicity is. Japan makes RPGs and other video games about ancient European culture all the time. And Japanese RPGs romanticize European culture every bit as much as neofolk. And they make military bombastic music and games, too. Like Valkyria Chronicles.

In the end, I try not to worry about it too much. Because people have told me that the European New Right is very uncommon and probably won't become very popular. I hope?

You are describing a tiny, tiny portion of the European far right. Le Pen's National Front variety of douchebag is much more spread and representative.

 

[Arksy]

By cultivating a civic conception of nationhood rather than an ethnic conception of nationhood. Like the Anglo-American world. No one denies that fourth generation Chinese or third generation Italian children are American, or British or Australian. Second and third generation Turks in Germany are still not considered German. Same goes with basically any large ethnic minority in most European countries.

 

[HolyBaikal]

You are describing a tiny, tiny portion of the European far right. Le Pen's National Front variety of douchebag is much more spread and representative.

Oh, sorry then. :<

I didn't realize the "New Right" thing was such a minority of the European Right Wing right now. I'm not European so I'm very ignorant about things like this.
I'm super sorry for my ignorance.

 

[Trax]

Until the left stops shilling for the neoliberal EU nothing will change. The EU enforced austerity in many countries pushes people towards racism and nationalism and the far-right holds all the cards: They're both eurosceptics and xenophobes.

EU's lack of democratic legitimacy, its bullying tactics and the institution being used as a trojan horse for neoliberal policies have caused a lot of understandable euroscepticism. If the left doesn't eventually embrace it they're screwed.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Oh, sorry then. :<

I didn't realize the "New Right" thing was such a minority of the European Right Wing right now. I'm not European so I'm very ignorant about things like this.
I'm super sorry for my ignorance.

I don't know about the rest of Europe but here's a good read about the French far-right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_far-right_movements_in_France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Front_(France)

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Going to have to agree that Europe's left and moderates have failed to address any of the obvious issues with immigration, have often capitulated to religious oddities like "no pork in school", and have even been complicit in covering up gross criminal abuses by immigrants in order to avoid political hand-wringing.

In the absence of common sense, people will drift towards radicalized solutions.

 

[Jezbollah]

By not giving them the oxygen of publicity.

 

[roundabout]

One thing I've been thinking about a lot recently is this: what if a country democratically voted for a racist party with racist policies? If that is genuinely the will of the people, how would we as progressive people deal with this?

Because I think that most people are fairly bigoted, we have to remember that we as tech savvy progressive young people are not a majority by a long shot. What if there's more of them than there are of us?

 

[Lime]

One thing I've been thinking about a lot recently is this: what if a country democratically voted for a racist party with racist policies? If that is genuinely the will of the people, how would we as progressive people deal with this?

Because I think that most people are fairly bigoted, we have to remember that we as tech savvy progressive young people are not a majority by a long shot. What if there's more of them than there are of us?

Usually a society's constitution is in place to protect fundamental rights as to avoid tyranny of the majority. Unfortunately, not a lot of political parties seem to care much for fundamental rights with the way they legislate themselves out of violating what is considered to be fundamental human rights (cf. UN Guiding Principles).

 

[roundabout]

By cultivating a civic conception of nationhood rather than an ethnic conception of nationhood. Like the Anglo-American world. No one denies that fourth generation Chinese or third generation Italian children are American, or British or Australian. Second and third generation Turks in Germany are still not considered German. Same goes with basically any large ethnic minority in most European countries.

I don't know much about Germany, but do the 2nd and 3rd gen Turks consider themselves German? If think in the UK this is a problem around the perception of muslims, their home culture is believed (rightly or wrongly) to take precedence over their status as British (language, clothes, food, social mixing). If the 'public' (a vague term in itself) perceives a minority as being secluded or having removed themselves from mainstream society, I think they'll be much less sympathetic towards them.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

How can Europe combat its far-right nationalistic & racist political movements?

Certainly not with Liberal movements that believe that these people have an innate right to their far-right, nationalistic, and racist political ideas.

By cultivating a civic conception of nationhood rather than an ethnic conception of nationhood. Like the Anglo-American world. No one denies that fourth generation Chinese or third generation Italian children are American, or British or Australian. Second and third generation Turks in Germany are still not considered German. Same goes with basically any large ethnic minority in most European countries.

America has this benefit because, for one, we have no incredibly strong ethnic or national roots. For two, what ethnic and national roots that existed were blurred by segregationists constantly "incorporating" previously undesirable cultures like the Irish and Judaism in effort to build a stronger front against incorporating black Americans into American culture.

 

[Onyar]

Please don't put the catalans separatists at the same place as the FN or the LN, we are more likely to be as the scotland movement.

 

[HolyBaikal]

I'm very sorry, everyone. I know a lot more about European music than their culture and politics.
Just like with Japan and anime.

 

[TedNindo]

Address the problems that are causing right wing parties to gain popularity.

 

[appaws]

I've always wondered about people's attitudes about this....

To what extent do people in a culture or ethnicity have a right to believe in the perpetuation of that culture or ethnicity...? Or is belief in that idea at any level "racist" or "xenophobic?" Can a French person, or a German, desire that their culture retain its historical characteristics without being hateful...? Is it permissible for a person in a non-white culture to feel this way...?

Of course, I am an American, and it is somewhat different for us, as we are all mixed up immigrants anyway. But, I can't help but feel some sympathy for a person who has concerns that high levels of immigration will destroy the culture of their nation.

 

[neorej]

Facing immigration issues in a frank manner instead of shoving them (and the people themselves) under the carpet would be a nice start.

Bingo! Every discussion regarding the problems surrounding immigrants is killed early by yelling RACIST and walk away like you actually achieved something.

For instance, the city of Rotterdam announced that most street-crime was comitted by citizens of Maroccan and Aruban descent. Instead of reacting with a 'hmm, that's interesting, let's find out why those groups are over-represented in these statistics', the initial reaction was 'hmm, that's interesting, why is the Rotterdam police so racist?'

 

[Dennis]

Facing immigration issues in a frank manner instead of shoving them (and the people themselves) under the carpet would be a nice start.

The post I was about to write.

 

[ComputerMKII]

I'm very sorry, everyone. I know a lot more about European music than their culture and politics.
Just like with Japan and anime.

It's OK, the important thing is that you're trying to know more. A lot of people don't.

 

[SmokyDave]

Figure out where the left are going wrong, where the right are going wrong, and then aim to meet somewhere in the middle.

Alternatively, become as polarised as possible and then shout nonsensically at each other from behind iron fences.

Facing immigration issues in a frank manner instead of shoving them (and the people themselves) under the carpet would be a nice start.

Or do this, since it's the root of most consternation.

 

[wsippel]

By cultivating a civic conception of nationhood rather than an ethnic conception of nationhood. Like the Anglo-American world. No one denies that fourth generation Chinese or third generation Italian children are American, or British or Australian. Second and third generation Turks in Germany are still not considered German. Same goes with basically any large ethnic minority in most European countries.

That's not how it works in my experience. The ones that consider themselves German are typically well integrated, the ones that do not aren't.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

As long as they don't become as powerful as the Republican Party in America, Europe is fine.

 

[BrassDragon]

It's been said already: the establishment (political, cultural, academic) needs to stop declaring a taboo on any honest discussion of immigration / cultural integration, international aid and European unification. Anyone approaching these topics critically is ridiculed, marginalised and considered an affront to national virtues.

This is not just a taboo that affects the discourse of citizens, it also skews the policies of civil servants: for instance, police officers can't openly discuss the changing landscape of crime due to mass immigration from specific countries. Anyone doing so would commit career suicide.

The almost reflexive resistance to discussion has opened the door for agitators and loudmouths who are martyred by their willingness to speak 'the mind of the people'. Instead examining their grievances, the establishment tries to keep these populists at bay through 'sanitary cordons', censorship and the chilling effect, bureacratic barriers to participation and even legislation/criminalisation.

I think the truth is that the mainstream politicians fear discussion of these themes because their democratic mandate is so shaky - a sizeable portion of the electorate, maybe even a slight majority, is not happy with the effects of Europe, immigration and international cooperation.

 

[Sakura]

Well, the farther to the left you move, the more people on the right will get upset and start acting. I'm not sure how you can 'combat' them without at least appeasing/addressing some of their issues in some form. Ignoring them and their issues, will only make it worse.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

As long as they don't become as powerful as the Republican Party in America, Europe is fine.

The Republican party is downright subtle compared to Europe's far right.

 

[Dilly]

Abandon the euro, or reform the Eurozone. As long as countries have to answer to an outside authority, especially a creditor that demands pay cuts and the sale of national assets only to service debt, and keep the international bankers happy... these movements will continue to spring up and gain strength.

The Euro has done it again, damn that currency to hell!

 

[pgtl_10]

I'm pretty familiar with the European New Right, as not innocent and cute as that is...
It's because of things like black metal, folk metal, neofolk, and martial industrial. And people like Julius Evola and Troy Southgate.

If you haven't heard of them... Julius Evola was a super male supremacist who didn't like the modern world and wanted to ethnic pride and hypermasculnity. And he believed that all religions had some spiritual truth. And Troy Southgate is a white nationalist who believes that there shouldn't be a state, so he identifies as an Anarchist. But he also believes that white people should use being stateless to separate themselves from other races.

He believes the the state is oppressing white people. :/
So.. without the state... white people would start going their own way and separate themselves from other races...

He's also a biosexist who disagrees with feminism because he things it "goes against women's nature", and that "homosexuality is unnatural" because it doesn't make reproduction. He kind of talks like a GamerGate type person...

I try to empathize with everyone. But viewpoints like this are really sad. And I hope they don't become more popular and spread. In their music, I can hear how they love ancient European culture. How much it's romantic and beautiful to them. And that's true, but I think all cultures of the world are beautiful, and belong to everyone.

You can enjoy classical European culture and folk culture without being separatist and possessive of it. And you can preserve and save cultures, without them being separate. People being separate is just as tragic as cultures disappearing.

Instead of being exclusive and too prideful, we should all share our cultures with the world. Without worrying about silly things like "nationalism" or "ethnic pride" or "cultural appropriation".

H.E.R.R.'s music albums are really pretty things about European culture. It's sad that one one made an album about Vondel's Lucifer like that. But anyone could do that, no matter what their race or ethnicity is. Japan makes RPGs and other video games about ancient European culture all the time. And Japanese RPGs romanticize European culture every bit as much as neofolk. And they make military bombastic music and games, too. Like Valkyria Chronicles.

In the end, I try not to worry about it too much. Because people have told me that the European New Right is very uncommon and probably won't become very popular. I hope?

Troy sounds like a Gamergate supporter.

 

[Chittagong]

Facing immigration issues in a frank manner instead of shoving them (and the people themselves) under the carpet would be a nice start.

Nailed it.

 

[Arksy]

I don't know much about Germany, but do the 2nd and 3rd gen Turks consider themselves German? If think in the UK this is a problem around the perception of muslims, their home culture is believed (rightly or wrongly) to take precedence over their status as British (language, clothes, food, social mixing). If the 'public' (a vague term in itself) perceives a minority as being secluded or having removed themselves from mainstream society, I think they'll be much less sympathetic towards them.

Nope. A few nutbags are not representative. Most British Muslims view themselves as British, thousands are fighting in the British armed services and when polled, are aghast about how some people are behaving in the name of Islam.

We recently had a mad gunman hold over a dozen hostages in the name of the Islamic State in a cafe in Sydney. Two people died. A lot of Muslims in Australia were feeling self-conscious and the wider Australian public reassured the Muslim population with the hashtag #Illridewithyou. It was a pretty strong and widespread message from social media that we're all Australian and we're in this together and no one is going to judge you for the actions of a mad man. Meanwhile, the same fucking day...fifteen thousand Germans took to the street to protest the Islamification of their country.

I'm not surprised that ethnic minorities fall back to their ancestral ethnicities. German society won't accept them, so they go back to the only identity they know. This isn't just a problem with Germany. It's a problem with countries whose identities rely on ethnicity.

America has this benefit because, for one, we have no incredibly strong ethnic or national roots. For two, what ethnic and national roots that existed were blurred by segregationists constantly "incorporating" previously undesirable cultures like the Irish and Judaism in effort to build a stronger front against incorporating black Americans into American culture.

This doesn't just apply to America, it applies to Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the UK.

 

[wsippel]

It's been said already: the establishment (political, cultural, academic) needs to stop declaring a taboo on any honest discussion of immigration / cultural integration, international aid and European unification. Anyone approaching these topics critically is ridiculed, marginalised and considered an affront to national virtues.

This is not just a taboo that affects the discourse of citizens, it also skews the policies of civil servants: for instance, police officers can't openly discuss the changing landscape of crime due to mass immigration from specific countries. Anyone doing so would commit career suicide.

The almost reflexive resistance to discussion has opened the door for agitators and loudmouths who are martyred by their willingness to speak 'the mind of the people'. Instead examining their grievances, the establishment tries to keep these populists at bay through 'sanitary cordons', censorship and the chilling effect, bureacratic barriers to participation and even legislation/criminalisation.

I think the truth is that the mainstream politicians fear discussion of these themes because their democratic mandate is so shaky - a sizeable portion of the electorate, maybe even a slight majority, is not happy with the effects of Europe, immigration and international cooperation.

That is unsurprisingly pretty much exactly what the Central Council of Muslims in Germany said about dealing with PEGIDA. One has to take their concerns seriously and discuss them openly and in a civilized and constructive manner, not just dismiss those people as right wing nut jobs.

 

[petran79]

The Republican party is downright subtle compared to Europe's far right.

to avoid confusion:

In Europe there is no Republican party. So USA's Democrats would actually be considered Conservatives in Europe (Eg Christian Democrats). Hence the world Liberal has the right connotation both for Europe and America. Social Democratic parties in Europe vacillate between Centre-Centre Left, but in USA they'd be considered Leftists.

Actual Leftist parties in Europe are considered Extreme Left in the USA. On the other hand, a Republican party in Europe would encompass large sections of Right and Far Right (not Extreme Right though). But Centre Right would actually prefer Conservative parties.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Actual Leftist parties in Europe are considered Extreme Left in the USA. On the other hand, a Republican party in Europe would encompass large sections of Right and Far Right (not Extreme Right though). But Centre Right would actually prefer Conservative parties.

Some of them, yeah. Though some of the labor oriented parties in Europe tend to have an opportunistic streak and skew rightward at the worst of times.

Thankfully both Greece and Germany are seeing the rise of Marxist influenced parties.

 

[OldAsUrSock]

The movements are not inherently racist. The people are worried about the economic and cultural integrity of their country. Because the current parties have not been adequately handling the situation, some racists have found an opportunity to get into power.

to avoid confusion:

In Europe there is no Republican party. So USA's Democrats would actually be considered Conservatives in Europe (Eg Christian Democrats). Hence the world Liberal has the right connotation both for Europe and America. Social Democratic parties in Europe vacillate between Centre-Centre Left, but in USA they'd be considered Leftists.

Actual Leftist parties in Europe are considered Extreme Left in the USA. On the other hand, a Republican party in Europe would encompass large sections of Right and Far Right (not Extreme Right though). But Centre Right would actually prefer Conservative parties.

That is a huge simplification of the political sphere.

 

[wsippel]

Some of them, yeah. Though some of the labor oriented parties in Europe tend to have an opportunistic streak and skew rightward at the worst of times.

Thankfully both Greece and Germany are seeing the rise of Marxist influenced parties.

There's nothing positive about that.