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How can White people (EU+US) try to heal the wounds inflicted upon Black people?

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This is why brown/black economic empowerment is a big issue. There is no reason why black and brown people, in America today, should have to go to racist ass businesses like this for employment.

When you can't employ your own you are at the mercy of others.

It would be a herculean task to create enough black owned businesses to employ every black person looking for a job, even then you have to worry about specific skills, degrees, etc. The whole "create a black America" idea will never work. It makes more sense to stop institutionalized racism.
 

Mesousa

Banned
It would be a herculean task to create enough black owned businesses to employ every black person looking for a job, even then you have to worry about specific skills, degrees, etc. The whole "create a black America" idea will never work. It makes more sense to stop institutionalized racism.

Black/brown economic empowerment is a lot more than just black brown people hiring other brown people. It's about creating a culture of economic advancement from the ground up.

Creating producers out of a class the majority would rather keep as consumers.
 
Black/brown economic empowerment is a lot more than just black brown people hiring other brown people. It's about creating a culture of economic advancement from the ground up.

Creating producers out of a class the majority would rather keep as consumers.

That I like the sound of, but a major issue is that it does require black and brown people to be hired at those "racist ass businesses, " so far the only real success has been in the entertainment industry, and even that hasn't really made a dent in black/brown empowerment.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And really, this white 'privilege' bullshit kinda pisses me off...
What privilege do I have because I am white? I was raised by a single mom. I grew up on welfare. I used to get teased in elementary school because I was poor, and I was a minority when I was in high school. Some people I knew would get free university, simply because they have a different ancestry than I..

White Privilege is real. Now if you don't want to believe it that's fine. And it's okay also if you don't want to believe that 5+5 equals 10.

I'll do the research for you to show you that white privilege exist.

White High School Drop-Outs Are As Likely To Land Jobs As Black College Students
African-Americans college students are about as likely to get hired as whites who have dropped out of high school. So says a new report from a non-profit called Young Invincibles, which analyzed data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the U.S. Census and examined the effect race and education levels have on unemployment. “We were startled to see just how much more education young African-Americans must get in order to have the same chance at landing a job as their white peers,” said Rory O’Sullivan, deputy director of Young Invincibles, in a statement.


Black people get arrested for marijuana than whites even though they smoke at nearly the same levels
Among those arrested, the ACLU found giant racial disparities. Blacks were 3.73 times more likely to be arrested than whites for marijuana possession, with the black arrest rate at 716 per 100,000 and the white arrest rate at 192 per 100,000 in 2010. That's despite the report's findings that whites and blacks use marijuana at similar rates.
black_v_white_marijuana_possession_arrest_medium.png



Having a black sounding names makes it harder to get a call back for a job
A job applicant with a name that sounds like it might belong to an African-American - say, Lakisha Washington or Jamal Jones - can find it harder to get a job. Despite laws against discrimination, affirmative action, a degree of employer enlightenment, and the desire by some businesses to enhance profits by hiring those most qualified regardless of race, African-Americans are twice as likely as whites to be unemployed and they earn nearly 25 percent less when they are employed.

Now a "field experiment" by NBER Faculty Research Fellows Marianne Bertrand and Sendhil Mullainathan measures this discrimination in a novel way. In response to help-wanted ads in Chicago and Boston newspapers, they sent resumes with either African-American- or white-sounding names and then measured the number of callbacks each resume received for interviews. Thus, they experimentally manipulated perception of race via the name on the resume. Half of the applicants were assigned African-American names that are "remarkably common" in the black population, the other half white sounding names, such as Emily Walsh or Greg Baker.

In total, the authors responded to more than 1,300 employment ads in the sales, administrative support, clerical, and customer services job categories, sending out nearly 5,000 resumes. The ads covered a large spectrum of job quality, from cashier work at retail establishments and clerical work in a mailroom to office and sales management positions.

The results indicate large racial differences in callback rates to a phone line with a voice mailbox attached and a message recorded by someone of the appropriate race and gender. Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback. This would suggest either employer prejudice or employer perception that race signals lower productivity. It indicates that a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience.

It's very important for people to understand the racism of today. It's still going on and it's affecting us. Black people can not fix ANY of the above racism (and there's WAY more going on) without white people realizing it's still happening and fixing it. We don't have the power or influence to fix this current day racism.
 

pel1300

Member
You all are odd... While I agree there are many reforms that is needed, I believe it needs to be done to guarantee equality in the future, not because of the deeds in the past. Most of the people who committed these immoral acts are already long gone. All we need is time and reform to better sustain equality.

Many of the reforms needed in U.S will definitely have a large impact on Blacks, but it will also impact other races greatly. It isn't a racial issue as much as it is a human issue imo. Bringing up slavery and then trying to get something from that due to crimes against our ancestors is something I am against. The Native Americans are one thing, but the other groups in U.S? No.

Basically to sum it up, I will not use past events to legitimize my feelings of being disadvantaged. I will only use present day laws and actions that cause inequality and needs to be changed.

There are resources out there that could help Blacks, but many do not take it. For what reasons, they as individuals can only tell.

This. I thought the OP was parody or something...then I read all of the serious responses.
 

Mesousa

Banned
That I like the sound of, but a major issue is that it does require black and brown people to be hired at those "racist ass businesses, " so far the only real success has been in the entertainment industry, and even that hasn't really made a dent in black/brown empowerment.

The creation is there, people just have to invest in themselves. Alonzo Herndon and the Bronner dynasty had big businesses employing many in corporate type of functions in Atlanta alone. Thing folks have to keep investing. Integration made it a lot easier to separate yourself from others in your community, but if the focus is there the investment can pay off.
 

Lime

Member
This entire thread premise seems patronizing. Blacks don't need whites to heal any wounds. We are more than capable of doing it on our own. More brothers and sisters just need to embrace revolutionary education.

I apologize, the thread and argument is not meant to victimize or make Black Americans appear incapable of realizing their ambitions, goals, happiness, etc.. The aim of the thread and argument is more about breaking down the historical, individual, collective, and systemic barriers and challenges that continuously oppress and put Black Americans at a disadvantage.
 

Mesousa

Banned
I apologize, the thread and argument is not meant to victimize or make Black Americans appear incapable of realizing their ambitions, goals, happiness, etc.. The aim of the thread and argument is more about breaking down the historical, individual, collective, and systemic barriers and challenges that continuously oppress and put Black Americans at a disadvantage.

No need to apologize mate. Just saying how the wording of the thread came to me.

Noble thread aim.
 

Two Words

Member
Mist would be best if we just stopped using racial identifiers. As far as aid, help those that need help. I don't see any benefit out of people calling me black or me calling them white. Race is a pretty crappy concept.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Mist would be best if we just stopped using racial identifiers. As far as aid, help those that need help. I don't see any benefit out of people calling me black or me calling them white. Race is a pretty crappy concept.

Wouldn't it be practically easier to stop using racial identifiers against people? Why can't we recognize our differences in skin color, hair textures, and backgrounds while also treating each other the same?

Why do I need shed why identity just to be treated equally?
 

Mesousa

Banned
Mist would be best if we just stopped using racial identifiers. As far as aid, help those that need help. I don't see any benefit out of people calling me black or me calling them white. Race is a pretty crappy concept.

France doesn't use racial identifiers on government forms and blacks and browns are still treated like shit there.

Ignoring it won't make it go away sadly.
 
the actions taken by my native country 500 years ago cannot be pinned on me.
My family was never part of aristocracy, never politically involved and not part of nobility.

People must realize that like that upper class nobility and aristocrats were like the 1% of the times, the rest of the country were just peasants.

I am really well aware of history and the blowback associated with colonialism. But playing the blame game in 2014 is pointless.

Best learn about past mistakes and just correct them in a present democratic society that prides in equality.

If we start apologizing for past crimes that we had nothing to do with, then we can roll back complaints to the Roman Empire who pretty much changed the face of Western Europe and the language they speak
 

Sakura

Member
White Privilege is real.

No. Racist people are real.
Black Americans less likely to get hired than a white American? Black Americans more likely to get arrested for the same crime as a white American? Yea. It's racism, I know it exists.
But that does not mean I have an easy time doing everything, it doesn't mean I am higher up on some socio-economic scale, and it doesn't mean I am 'privileged' simply because I am white. I don't live in America. I've worked at jobs where I was the only white guy. 'White privilege' does not apply to every white guy, which is why I say it is bullshit. You don't get some easy mode button just for being born white, which is what proponents of the idea make it sound like.
If you are the minority somewhere you will have a harder than average experience doing things. It's not a white vs black thing.
 

JeTmAn81

Member
Monolithic groups such as "white people" or "black people" are incapable of unified actions and cannot be held responsible for such. Everyone needs to work together for equality for all. Not as White People or as Black People but as The People.
 
You all are odd... While I agree there are many reforms that is needed, I believe it needs to be done to guarantee equality in the future, not because of the deeds in the past. Most of the people who committed these immoral acts are already long gone. All we need is time and reform to better sustain equality.

Many of the reforms needed in U.S will definitely have a large impact on Blacks, but it will also impact other races greatly. It isn't a racial issue as much as it is a human issue imo. Bringing up slavery and then trying to get something from that due to crimes against our ancestors is something I am against. The Native Americans are one thing, but the other groups in U.S? No.

Basically to sum it up, I will not use past events to legitimize my feelings of being disadvantaged. I will only use present day laws and actions that cause inequality and needs to be changed.

There are resources out there that could help Blacks, but many do not take it. For what reasons, they as individuals can only tell.

I don't understand this argument. You're saying America should continue to pay Native Americans for the atrocities committed against them by people no longer living; but not pay for atrocities committed against another group by people no longer living? (Ignoring the atrocities committed in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s)? How does that work?
 

Infinite

Member
You can't be for equality and not recognize that the playing field is uneven. That is not how this thing is going to work. Willful ignorance won't solve this and you're wasting everyone's time here not recognizing social privileges.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
No. Racist people are real.
Black Americans less likely to get hired than a white American? Black Americans more likely to get arrested for the same crime as a white American? Yea. It's racism, I know it exists.
But that does not mean I have an easy time doing everything, it doesn't mean I am higher up on some socio-economic scale, and it doesn't mean I am 'privileged' simply because I am white. I don't live in America. I've worked at jobs where I was the only white guy. 'White privilege' does not apply to every white guy, which is why I say it is bullshit. You don't get some easy mode button just for being born white, which is what proponents of the idea make it sound like.
If you are the minority somewhere you will have a harder than average experience doing things. It's not a white vs black thing.

I don't think you understand what white privilege means then. I'm sorry if I can't help you understand what it means. I'll leave these explanations of white privilege here.

“Privilege exists when one group has something of value that is denied to others simply because of the groups they belong to, rather than because of anything they’ve done or failed to do. Access to privilege doesn’t determine one’s outcomes, but it is definitely an asset that makes it more likely that whatever talent, ability, and aspirations a person with privilege has will result in something positive for them.” ~Peggy McIntosh



White skin privilege is not something that white people necessarily do, create or enjoy on purpose. Unlike the more overt individual and institutional manifestations of racism described above, white skin privilege is a transparent preference for whiteness that saturates our society. White skin privilege serves several functions. First, it provides white people with “perks” that we do not earn and that people of color do not enjoy. Second, it creates real advantages for us.


White Privilege: The Perks
White people receive all kinds of perks as a function of their skin privilege. Consider the following:
• When I stay in a hotel, the complimentary shampoo generally works with the texture of my hair.
• When I run to the store to buy pantyhose at the last minute, the ‘nude’ color generally appears nude on my legs.
• I can purchase travel size bottles of my hair care products at most grocery or drug stores.

White Privilege: The Advantages
Certainly, white privilege is not limited to perks like band aids and hair care products. The second function of white skin privilege is that it creates significant advantages for white people. There are scores of things that I, as a white person, generally do not encounter, have to deal with or even recognize. For example:
• My skin color does not work against me in terms of how people perceive my financial responsibility, style of dress, public speaking skills, or job performance.
• People do not assume that I got where I am professionally because of my race (or because of affirmative action programs).
• Store security personnel or law enforcement officers do not harass me, pull me over or follow me because of my race.


I'm not saying that you are trying to use it to your advantage. I'm not blaming you of anything. And white privilege doesn't mean that you won't be poor. It just means that society has set things up for you to be easier for you to exist and navigate in the world without a second thought.

White privilege means that if you make a comedy movie with an all white cast, it's just called a comedy or rom com. But if I make a similar movie with an all black cast it's deemed a "black film" or "black comedy". It's just expected that white people will star in movies, whereas if a black person stars in a movie sometimes people question if the producer or director adding the black person for affirmative action purposes or just as a token minority.
 

Two Words

Member
Wouldn't it be practically easier to stop using racial identifiers against people? Why can't we recognize our differences in skin color, hair textures, and backgrounds while also treating each other the same?

Why do I need shed why identity just to be treated equally?
Race isn't an identity. Your nationality or where you were raised are much bigger identifiers than simple clustering a of physical traits. I would be considered "Black", and al it does it put a billion different pre-conceived notions about me. And I don't even mean only the racial stereotypes. Calling me black doesn't tell you anything about my identity, but it does a damn good job of spreading disinformation.



France doesn't use racial identifiers on government forms and blacks and browns are still treated like shit there.

Ignoring it won't make it go away sadly.
Well yes, government dropping race as an identifier isn't enough. People, not just government, need to stop using race as a valid description.
 

wsippel

Banned
I'm not saying that you are trying to use it to your advantage. I'm not blaming you of anything. And white privilege doesn't mean that you won't be poor. It just means that society has set things up for you to be easier for you to exist and navigate in the world without a second thought.
Some of the examples listed, especially the first one you highlighted, are really pointless, though - unless they're supposed to be sarcastic or something. They have nothing to do with race or privileges, it's about businesses trying to cater to the majority of their customers. Which makes perfect sense and is something any sane businessman does anywhere in the world. There's also "medium sized people privilege", and it sucks for me because I'm tall, but at the end of the day, those are perfectly understandable business decisions. ;)

Now, the other examples are fine and sadly true, but putting shampoo types or pantyhose colors in the same bracket strikes me as pretty dumb.
 

TarNaru33

Banned
I don't understand this argument. You're saying America should continue to pay Native Americans for the atrocities committed against them by people no longer living; but not pay for atrocities committed against another group by people no longer living? (Ignoring the atrocities committed in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s)? How does that work?

I worded it poorly. I wasn't saying we should today be paying reparation for the past atrocities, I was recognizing that it was already done. Native Americans faced genocide and a complete takeover of their lands by Europeans and later U.S people's through manifest destiny. Not trying to compare it, just saying that U.S government already recognized it as genocide and did some things to repair relations with Native Americans.

I do not want anything like this done again unless the reparations came in for the actual people that were affected.
 
Is this thread serious?

I think the discussion in here is pretty good actually, people are being civil and reasonable (aside from the 'Is there racism if we're all in the matrix?' guy. If you have issues with any of the points in the OP, post what they are instead of dismissing the entire topic.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Race isn't an identity. Your nationality or where you were raised are much bigger identifiers than simple clustering a of physical traits. I would be considered "Black", and al it does it put a billion different pre-conceived notions about me. And I don't even mean only the racial stereotypes. Calling me black doesn't tell you anything about my identity, but it does a damn good job of spreading disinformation.




Well yes, government dropping race as an identifier isn't enough. People, not just government, need to stop using race as a valid description.

But race is identity. That's why Barack Obama is the first Black president and not the first mixed race or biracial president. He chooses to identify as a Black man.
 

Two Words

Member
But race is identity. That's why Barack Obama is the first Black president and not the first mixed race or biracial president. He chooses to identify as a Black man.
I'm saying it's an identity that holds no valuable information. The ratio of information/disinformation it brings sucks. There isn't really any benefit of using it.
 
The creation is there, people just have to invest in themselves. Alonzo Herndon and the Bronner dynasty had big businesses employing many in corporate type of functions in Atlanta alone. Thing folks have to keep investing. Integration made it a lot easier to separate yourself from others in your community, but if the focus is there the investment can pay off.

In a perfect world..... I just don't see all the problems in the black community being solved by black people, especially considering that most of the issues are caused by outside forces.
 

Novoitus

Banned
Higher taxes of rich and wealthy people, most notably White ones. Provide this taxed money to education, health, security, etc. in Black communities.

I'm okay with higher taxes on wealthier people, but this makes it sound like a fucking race tax. Seriously? How is that okay? How would that help?

Secession or self-rule by African-Americans à la Native Americans? Probably a far-fetched suggestion, but if people desired such a solution, hopefully Black people would receive better and more resource-rich land along with the required funds to "get the ball rolling".

This is also pretty awful.

These two suggestions would just strengthen any racist culture. You move backwards by attempting to separate and segregate races even more than they already are.
 

sleepykyo

Member

  • ~snip
  • Affirmative Action specifically targeting Black people. Getting a job isn't entirely about merits, but what body you are identified as. I think privileged White people should move to the side and let Black bodies in.
  • Higher taxes of rich and wealthy people, most notably White ones. Provide this taxed money to education, health, security, etc. in Black communities.
  • Education & awareness for White people to learn about racism, privilege, and the tools on how to deal with passive, institutional and systemic racism.
  • A complete reform or overhaul of the police, courts, and prisons.
    ~snip
  • Secession or self-rule by African-Americans à la Native Americans? Probably a far-fetched suggestion, but if people desired such a solution, hopefully Black people would receive better and more resource-rich land along with the required funds to "get the ball rolling".

- So you're quitting your job right? No? It isn't simply idealistic, it is unnatural given inherent self interest.

-Leaving it as simply higher taxes on the wealthy is already seen as socialistic class warfare. I'd love to see a return to pre-Reagan tax levels but we've (Americans) have really bought into taxes are bad. Your proposal changes it from simply class to class and race warfare.

-Education and the reform of public institutions generally doesn't seem too bad.

-Secession and the establishment of reservations has to be the most far-fetched one I've seen. Granted I could see wealthy white people go for an excuse.
 

Enthus

Member
Now I know darn well this is a lie. Get outta here with that noise. Seriously?! You guys talked more about Malcolm X in high school that the president on the $1 bill? Why do you expect people to believe this?

I don't expect you to believe me, but that doesn't make it not true. Everyone went into the class with a fundamental knowledge on Washington, the other founders, and the Revolution, so most events were skimmed over save more in-depth discussions on things like the Constitutional Convention. Meanwhile, we had group projects worth two test grades and a regular exam about Civil Rights and Minority Rights leaders, which came after two to three weeks of lectures about the various groups in the 50s to 70s. I distinctly remember this, as my topic for the assignment was Native American rights and I remember first learning about the Wounded Knee occupation in 1973.


This may not be the course for regular US history classes, but this was the norm for the AP course. I know my instructor gave the same curriculum to the regular class, but with less date memorization and fewer important events being detailed. Civil Rights is a large percentage of the AP Exam for that subject, so it makes sense that prep classes would focus on topics they are less likely to have prior knowledge on.
 

Infinite

Member
I'm saying it's an identity that holds no valuable information. The ratio of information/disinformation it brings sucks. There isn't really any benefit of using it.

That isn't for you to decide. If someone wants to identify as a black american and celebrate their blackness there shouldn't be a problem with that. At all. So as long as they aren't harming anyone or themselves in doing so

I don't expect you to believe me, but that doesn't make it not true. Everyone went into the class with a fundamental knowledge on Washington, the other founders, and the Revolution, so most events were skimmed over save more in-depth discussions on things like the Constitutional Convention. Meanwhile, we had group projects worth two test grades and a regular exam about Civil Rights and Minority Rights leaders, which came after two to three weeks of lectures about the various groups in the 50s to 70s. I distinctly remember this, as my topic for the assignment was Native American rights and I remember first learning about the Wounded Knee occupation in 1973.

This may not be the course for regular US history classes, but this was the norm for the AP course. I know my instructor gave the same curriculum to the regular class, but with less date memorization and fewer important events being detailed. Civil Rights is a large percentage of the AP Exam for that subject, so it makes sense that prep classes would focus on topics they are less likely to have prior knowledge on.
Anecdotal, that was your experiences in school you can not say the same for everyone else.
 

Enthus

Member
That isn't for you to decide. If someone wants to identify as a black american and celebrate their blackness there shouldn't be a problem with that. At all. So as long as they aren't harming anyone or themselves in doing so


Anecdotal, that was your experiences in school you can not say the same for everyone else.

No way! My anecdote is anecdotal!
 

Two Words

Member
That isn't for you to decide. If someone wants to identify as a black american and celebrate their blackness there shouldn't be a problem with that. At all. So as long as they aren't harming anyone or themselves in doing so


Anecdotal, that was your experiences in school you can not say the same for everyone else.
I'm not speaking as an authority that they have to obey. I'm giving my view.
 

Mesousa

Banned
In a perfect world..... I just don't see all the problems in the black community being solved by black people, especially considering that most of the issues are caused by outside forces.

It's closer than you think. Revolutionary brothers and sisters are planting the seeds to economic independence in neighborhoods at this very second.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This may not be the course for regular US history classes, but this was the norm for the AP course. I know my instructor gave the same curriculum to the regular class, but with less date memorization and fewer important events being detailed. Civil Rights is a large percentage of the AP Exam for that subject, so it makes sense that prep classes would focus on topics they are less likely to have prior knowledge on.

Maybe it was because it was an AP course.
 

nynt9

Member
Not to derail, but I'm also a white ethnic minority (Circassian) in my country, and as a first generation immigrant to the US, I face more difficulties than a regular white person and I am not privy to the wealth that the ancestors of white people here have accumulated through oppression. And slaves in my country were not exclusively black people, in fact slaves were almost always white (and sometimes Circassian). So I have not benefited from the oppression of blacks by my ancestors either.

I do recognize that I am privy to certain advantages due to looking white (though that advantage usually goes away when I speak and people realize I'm an immigrant), but not all of them. My question is, I guess, am I still theoretically "guilty" for looking white despite not really reaping the benefits of racism that was sown by others? Does my minority status entitle me to demand reparations from someone as well? Are these separate issues?

To be honest, I don't usually think deeply about race issues because race isn't an issue like this where I grew up so it's pretty new to me, but thinking about it, I am quite confused about the situation. The system here is obviously very unjust towards black people, and I always try to empathize and talk with my black friends to understand their perspectives on the situation and learn about racism, but a lot of this stuff is quite complicated and hard to get a grasp on, especially as an outsider who was unaware of all this stuff until a few years ago.

I apologize if this post comes off as offensive but I'm trying to learn and understand the situation.
 

Ikael

Member
It would be a herculean task to create enough black owned businesses to employ every black person looking for a job, even then you have to worry about specific skills, degrees, etc. The whole "create a black America" idea will never work. It makes more sense to stop institutionalized racism.

It would be an herculean task because Americans at both left and right of the political spectrum do really, really, really want to believe that the highest factor for unequality in this blue Earth of ours is race instead of wealth. And no, I am not denying that race is a factor for unequality, which it certainly is, but let's put another perspective into this.

Slavery created an underclass of citizens which weren't allowed access to even the wealth of their own personal labour. Then slavery was abolished and it mattered little because the social mobility elevator got fucked up beyond belief so the artificially created black underclass was being kept an underclass along with pretty much everyone else at the bottom of the economic ladder. It is pretty telling to see statistics about how wealth in the hands of Afro Americans grew constantly since the abolution despite the fucking horribly racist Jim Crow laws and the likes being in place, only to stall and fall with the arrival of Reaganomics (surprise, surprise!) a trend that got firmly in place up until nowadays despite of the advances on racial awarness of our current modern era, which have done little to nothing at improving the actual material wealthof American black communities, or poor communities in general.

Which is why whenever people tells any non-black poor American about the incredible white privilege that they are enjoying their instinctual reaction is a heartfelt "what in the actual fuck are you talking about". I honestly believe that black people's woes have mostly to do with economy, not race per se. I know that there's a good intention put into this type of debate, but I cannot help but thinking that fixating the debate of the problems of black communities around some kind of essentialist ethno-cultural identity instead of meat-and-potatoes economy is making us all loose insight about other possible, more effective solutions for their problems, I think.
 

wildfire

Banned
Not to derail, but I'm also a white ethnic minority (Circassian) in my country, and as a first generation immigrant to the US, I face more difficulties than a regular white person and I am not privy to the wealth that the ancestors of white people here have accumulated through oppression. And slaves in my country were not exclusively black people, in fact slaves were almost always white (and sometimes Circassian). So I have not benefited from the oppression of blacks by my ancestors either.

I do recognize that I am privy to certain advantages due to looking white (though that advantage usually goes away when I speak and people realize I'm an immigrant), but not all of them. My question is, I guess, am I still theoretically "guilty" for looking white despite not really reaping the benefits of racism that was sown by others? Does my minority status entitle me to demand reparations from someone as well? Are these separate issues?

To be honest, I don't usually think deeply about race issues because race isn't an issue like this where I grew up so it's pretty new to me, but thinking about it, I am quite confused about the situation. The system here is obviously very unjust towards black people, and I always try to empathize and talk with my black friends to understand their perspectives on the situation and learn about racism, but a lot of this stuff is quite complicated and hard to get a grasp on, especially as an outsider who was unaware of all this stuff until a few years ago.

I apologize if this post comes off as offensive but I'm trying to learn and understand the situation.

Well let's start this off with this question? Did Japan deserve getting rebuilt after losing WWII?

Usually when groups lose in a war they get punished by the victors. My memory is faulty on this but I recall we decided to rebuild Japan because we determined it was better to have a stabilized country in the area instead of a destabilized one.

This was an enemy and for a long time they have been genuinely a staunch ally that has helped us politically as well as economically.

Reparations as they are typically discussed are about helping people who have been wronged in the past. By bringing up Japan I'm pointing out reparations aren't just a tool for penance but a tool to help strengthen bonds and move people forward.

Being a minority doesn't entitle you to demand reparations. Reparations if given out are based on fixing economic damage in the hopes they will also fix political ones as well.

As for whether or not you should feel guilty for looking a certain way, don't. An inability to recognize the problem is what anyone should feel guilty for. Anyone actively engaging in behavior that keeps the status quo are guilty whether they feel it or not.


As your curiosity about why this is a deep rooted issue my answer to that will be in my response to the following:

the actions taken by my native country 500 years ago cannot be pinned on me.
My family was never part of aristocracy, never politically involved and not part of nobility.

People must realize that like that upper class nobility and aristocrats were like the 1% of the times, the rest of the country were just peasants.

I am really well aware of history and the blowback associated with colonialism. But playing the blame game in 2014 is pointless.

Best learn about past mistakes and just correct them in a present democratic society that prides in equality.

If we start apologizing for past crimes that we had nothing to do with, then we can roll back complaints to the Roman Empire who pretty much changed the face of Western Europe and the language they speak



The blame game in 2014 is rooted in the discriminatory and predatory housing and lending practices of the 60's and 70's. It just so happens you can trace back these behaviors all the way to postCivil War Days. BTW nobility don't exist in America. We have break downs in class but European concepts of nobility and peasantry are invalid. There were citizens whether they were rich or poor actively participated in institutional racism.
 

Lime

Member
Funny, I re-read this great article in the Atlantic from May this year and it touches upon the argument that helping economic struggles would solve the problems of Black Americans. It states that;

To ignore the fact that one of the oldest republics in the world was erected on a foundation of white supremacy, to pretend that the problems of a dual society are the same as the problems of unregulated capitalism, is to cover the sin of national plunder with the sin of national lying. The lie ignores the fact that reducing American poverty and ending white supremacy are not the same. The lie ignores the fact that closing the “achievement gap” will do nothing to close the “injury gap,” in which black college graduates still suffer higher unemployment rates than white college graduates, and black job applicants without criminal records enjoy roughly the same chance of getting hired as white applicants with criminal records.

The message the young black boy receives from his country, Billy Brooks says, is “ ‘You ain’t shit. You not no good. The only thing you are worth is working for us. You will never own anything. You not going to get an education. We are sending your ass to the penitentiary.’ They’re telling you no matter how hard you struggle, no matter what you put down, you ain’t shit. ‘We’re going to take what you got. You will never own anything, nigger.’ ”
 

Pimpwerx

Member
I'd like my 40 acres. You can eBay the mule. Of course, I'm from the islands, but a US citizen. So I'm not sure if that would qualify me for reparations. PEACE.


Edit: I'm serious. Compensation needs to be tangible. Compassion don't pay them bills.
 
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