-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
How do you think Nintendo could make a better Zelda?
- Thread starter tanod
- Start date
cartman414
Member
AniHawk said:
You're saying thought process in a very general sense.
bluemax said:
Zelda 2 wasn't cheap hard. Aside from the falling into water/lava pits, it was quite balanced, thanks to its great combat.
cartman414
Member
AniHawk said:
You're gonna have to explain yourself on that one.
cartman414
Member
AniHawk said:
Total non-answer to my question.
I want them to do a Zelda Majora's mask - not the actual same game or style, but thematically - that is, to CHANGE teh game, yet somehowremain distinctly Zelda.
I would Zelda dungeons to be mopre varied...like back in the old days with Ocarina and Link to the past - each dungeon had you going wow because each was different from the last. By TP, they all seemed kind asamey, using the same patterns. Mix it up a little. Just change the formula every now and again to keep you on your toes - like have a dungeon that you first walk in, and you fight the boss! But he runs off with the map. You get given the item at the beginning, but are completely lost, and the map becomes the key item to the dungeon, not just a help in the beginning. Stuff like that. Oh, and more traversing giant rooms in dungeons - revisiting the same room but from a different angle or something.
This was kind of what I expected from TP. I was expecting huge Escher like dungeons and puzzles, really taking the formula to the next level, instead we just get a well done Ocarina.
I would Zelda dungeons to be mopre varied...like back in the old days with Ocarina and Link to the past - each dungeon had you going wow because each was different from the last. By TP, they all seemed kind asamey, using the same patterns. Mix it up a little. Just change the formula every now and again to keep you on your toes - like have a dungeon that you first walk in, and you fight the boss! But he runs off with the map. You get given the item at the beginning, but are completely lost, and the map becomes the key item to the dungeon, not just a help in the beginning. Stuff like that. Oh, and more traversing giant rooms in dungeons - revisiting the same room but from a different angle or something.
This was kind of what I expected from TP. I was expecting huge Escher like dungeons and puzzles, really taking the formula to the next level, instead we just get a well done Ocarina.
tahrikmili
Member
They should let Bioware develop the next Zelda.
I'm not
serious.
I'm not
very
underfooter
Banned
There is only one way to ressurect Zeldai n my mind, and I'll personally be disapointed if it's any other way. They need to make it a modern-day Original Legend of Zelda.
Top down Zelda with really awesome, 'wii-pushing' graphics. Detailed enemies and backgrounds, and less platforming and talking and more fighting and collecting. Temples that can be beaten out of order that mimic the originals and ALTTP's design, dozens of them. Tonnes of weapons and items.
You could use the wii controller for the simple controls (shaking could do something), and four people could join in to help your adventure.
Oh and online play? Go into a town where you could help someone else in their adventure and they could help you in yours. Secret areas to access with different number of people.
New map areas downloaded monthly, where you could explore new areas and old areas would change.
Top down Zelda with really awesome, 'wii-pushing' graphics. Detailed enemies and backgrounds, and less platforming and talking and more fighting and collecting. Temples that can be beaten out of order that mimic the originals and ALTTP's design, dozens of them. Tonnes of weapons and items.
You could use the wii controller for the simple controls (shaking could do something), and four people could join in to help your adventure.
Oh and online play? Go into a town where you could help someone else in their adventure and they could help you in yours. Secret areas to access with different number of people.
New map areas downloaded monthly, where you could explore new areas and old areas would change.
cartman414
Member
underfooter said:
Link's Awakening and its subsequent 2d followups have already been continuing on with those, sans the out of order dungeon completion.
A Zelda II-esque spinoff series would be a great idea.
underfooter
Banned
Oh by the way, all the other ideas other than mine are really bad. I just got through reading them.
Playing as Colin? Link speaking? Bring back the OOT dungeons? gees.
Playing as Colin? Link speaking? Bring back the OOT dungeons? gees.
HylianScribe
Member
Adagio said:
The Adventure of Link explains "The legend of Zelda" as in why every female royal family member born is named Zelda. However, the series is called The Legend of Zelda because in the original game, Impa tells Link the "Legend of Zelda" as in how Princess Zelda was trying to protect Hyrule and the Triforce from the evil Ganon. Thus, every single Zelda game is derived from the same mythos - Link is a hero sent forth to combat evil and protect the Kingdom of Hyrule and aid Princess Zelda. Derivative titles such as Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening, while on their own are an exception to this, are still bound to this mythos - LA is a result of Link departing to hone his skills after ALttP, MM is a result of Link seeking Navi after OoT - and still keep the connection.
The Wind Waker was all about Link and Zelda. You really do not get the Zelda series my friend. In TWW, Ganondorf is searching for PRINCESS ZELDA, and is kidnapping all the 'pointy earred" maidens in the Great Sea. This results in Tetra being brought to Outset Island, eventually leading to Aryll's kidnapping and why Link departs. The King of Red Lions was seeking BOTH Link and Zelda. Zelda had the Triforce of Wisdom, initially, she was the key to everything. The last remaining blood relative of the Royal Family.
Seriously, just know all of the games revolve around the protection of Hyrule and the Triforce and Link aiding Princess Zelda in protecting them. Even in Oracles, Link is sent abroad to confront evil. You say Zelda and the whole end is BS. The whole point of General Onox and Sorceress Veran was to initiate the Rites of Evil to revive Ganon...that was the whole plan. The Triforce sensed this evil and sent Link to confront it at the start of each game.
If you're going to argue as to how Nintendo could make Zelda better, at least know the games well enough to sound proficient.
As for The Minish Cap, the flaw in that game was the integration of the Kinstone system. It was very unique, but not very well executed. Hit detection in that game also sucked balls. But the narrative in the game was very good and the dungeons were decently designed. Everything was just a tad bit too small or short.
Oracle of Seasons was more a tribute game than anything else. Ages had a damn good concept - doing more with Time Travel like what Chrono Trigger did than OoT, where past actions affect the future (present) - but it was so damn poorly executed that the game collapsed under its own weight. It ended up being just another "ALttP" clone with the Light World/Dark World, though it is better than Seasons ultimately.
I think a remake of the original NES titles into 3D might be a good thing to try for starters. Except instead of a 4 headed Gleeok...try a 40 headed Gleeok.
tetrisgrammaton
Member
Sheik would be an awesome playable character
eXistor
Member
Didn't read the thread so if it's been mentioned, my apologies.
I'd love for it to be more realistic and not be so overly cartooney. The last few Zelda's haven't felt natural at all, there's too much of a sandbox feel to the game. It worked for Ocarina, not so much for Twilight Princess.
It would be awesome if they could make a Shadow of the Colossus type world where you could basically go everywehere from the beginning and stumble across random dungeons, forests ruins and caves (kinda like the first Zelda then). Interaction should be more natural and there should be mulitple solutions to certain problems you encounter in the overworld. For instance, you could get a simple task in the beginning of the game like go to the castle and meet with a certain person. Now you get the choice to just follow the road there or you could decide to go straight through a forest which could hold other hidden things like an abandoned shack, caves and whatnot.
Obviously this isn't a new aproach, as tons of games do this already, but it shouldn't be like, say, Oblivion, where you couldn't walk two feet without "finding"a new cave or dungeon.
As an other example: you could fin a beach and stading on the beach you see a cave across the water which you can only see from the beach. In another place in the world there is a rowboat stuck against a rock in a river. You can't swim so you figure you have to get the boat first. So now you have to figure out how to actually get the boat unstuck, which could take a while because you might not have the proper equipment yet.
The story should revert back to a simpler, more fairytale like quest. Classic elements like Link, Zelda, Triforce and Ganon should come backl, but don't try to be clever like in Twilight Princess. Zelda games aren't a bout story anyway, they should realise the strength of the medium more and focus more on gameplay.
So basically what i'd like is Shadow of the Colossus merged with Zelda. Then again, Team ICO did announce a ps3 game...who knows?
I'd love for it to be more realistic and not be so overly cartooney. The last few Zelda's haven't felt natural at all, there's too much of a sandbox feel to the game. It worked for Ocarina, not so much for Twilight Princess.
It would be awesome if they could make a Shadow of the Colossus type world where you could basically go everywehere from the beginning and stumble across random dungeons, forests ruins and caves (kinda like the first Zelda then). Interaction should be more natural and there should be mulitple solutions to certain problems you encounter in the overworld. For instance, you could get a simple task in the beginning of the game like go to the castle and meet with a certain person. Now you get the choice to just follow the road there or you could decide to go straight through a forest which could hold other hidden things like an abandoned shack, caves and whatnot.
Obviously this isn't a new aproach, as tons of games do this already, but it shouldn't be like, say, Oblivion, where you couldn't walk two feet without "finding"a new cave or dungeon.
As an other example: you could fin a beach and stading on the beach you see a cave across the water which you can only see from the beach. In another place in the world there is a rowboat stuck against a rock in a river. You can't swim so you figure you have to get the boat first. So now you have to figure out how to actually get the boat unstuck, which could take a while because you might not have the proper equipment yet.
The story should revert back to a simpler, more fairytale like quest. Classic elements like Link, Zelda, Triforce and Ganon should come backl, but don't try to be clever like in Twilight Princess. Zelda games aren't a bout story anyway, they should realise the strength of the medium more and focus more on gameplay.
So basically what i'd like is Shadow of the Colossus merged with Zelda. Then again, Team ICO did announce a ps3 game...who knows?
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I hope that Nintendo will still make zelda games based around the traditional characters and the traditional story because it works well, but there is quite a bit of improvement that could be made. There needs to be more fighting and needs to be harder. I enjoyed the combat in TP, but there wasnt enough of it. There should be more techniques/ moves that you can learn for your weapons. TP did a very good job of giving Link new sword techniques, but it would be really good if there were different techniques that you could use for other weapons.
The story needs to be deeper. There should be more twists and turns in the story. The cartooney look needs to be scrapped. Id rather see a zelda with more realistic characters. The art direction for TP would have worked brilliantly iof the game was cel-shaded, but the character designs didnt work well with the graphics. Zelda would work better with a final fantasy style rather than a cartooney style.
Character development is also a big issue with zelda. Ususally the only characters you get to know really well are zelda, link and Ganondorf, but you hardly know anything about the less important characters. Shad, Rusl, Auru, Ashei and Renado had the potential to be very good characters, but you didnt get to see them much.
I always want to see Nintendo make the traditional zelda games such as OoT, WW and TP because they are fun to play, but if Nintendo want to keep those types of zelda's exiting, they need to make one traditional zelda, then a completely different zelda loike majora's mask was, then a traditional zelda and so on. if you keep making the same type of zelda over and over people will get bored.
Nintendo's next zelda game will probably end up being like majora's mask in the sense that its completely different to the traditional zelda games. Its about time that there was another zelda game likes this. If Nintendo do make a game like this, then iod like them to do something completely different to what we have seen before. Majora's mask was diffferent, but not different enough. The majority of characters were from OoT and termina also had the gorons and zora's. Nin tendo need to get away from all those characters and invent something completely different. Who knows, maybe Nintendo can make a more memorable characters than zelda and ganon.
Just one last thing. If Nintendo want to make a beautiful city like TP's hyrule town in a future zelda game, please make it so that the gamer can actually talk to the people in the town. Walking into hyrule town and realising that I could only talk to a very small majoirty of the people was a big disappointment.
The story needs to be deeper. There should be more twists and turns in the story. The cartooney look needs to be scrapped. Id rather see a zelda with more realistic characters. The art direction for TP would have worked brilliantly iof the game was cel-shaded, but the character designs didnt work well with the graphics. Zelda would work better with a final fantasy style rather than a cartooney style.
Character development is also a big issue with zelda. Ususally the only characters you get to know really well are zelda, link and Ganondorf, but you hardly know anything about the less important characters. Shad, Rusl, Auru, Ashei and Renado had the potential to be very good characters, but you didnt get to see them much.
I always want to see Nintendo make the traditional zelda games such as OoT, WW and TP because they are fun to play, but if Nintendo want to keep those types of zelda's exiting, they need to make one traditional zelda, then a completely different zelda loike majora's mask was, then a traditional zelda and so on. if you keep making the same type of zelda over and over people will get bored.
Nintendo's next zelda game will probably end up being like majora's mask in the sense that its completely different to the traditional zelda games. Its about time that there was another zelda game likes this. If Nintendo do make a game like this, then iod like them to do something completely different to what we have seen before. Majora's mask was diffferent, but not different enough. The majority of characters were from OoT and termina also had the gorons and zora's. Nin tendo need to get away from all those characters and invent something completely different. Who knows, maybe Nintendo can make a more memorable characters than zelda and ganon.
Just one last thing. If Nintendo want to make a beautiful city like TP's hyrule town in a future zelda game, please make it so that the gamer can actually talk to the people in the town. Walking into hyrule town and realising that I could only talk to a very small majoirty of the people was a big disappointment.
MasterMFauli
Banned
To sum up this thread, it seems many people, myself as well, would like the Zelda-series to be more like The legend of Zelda NES in terms of overworld and non-linearity.
Do you hear, Nintendo?
Do you hear, Nintendo?
tetrisgrammaton
Member
MasterMFauli said:
yeah nintendo is right here reading this forum
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
The next Zelda game should allow players to be Princess Zelda at the end of her monthly cycle. The game would revolve around getting to Malo mart for new pads before the next time of the month. Whaddya reckon, is that a game you can trust or what?
I agree with the story improvements. It's true that it doesn't necessarily need to be a complex story, but I think TP showed Nintendo making a serious effort to really create an interesting and intriguing storyline for a Zelda game. I think they fell a tiny bit short, but they're better than they ever were.
ElectricBlue187
Member
I want to play *as* Zelda instead of Link for once, just once, you can even call it a side story if you want
Powdered Toastman
Member
Make a game based on the cartoon.
FOR ALL THE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT PLAYING AS ZELDA:
You're not contributing anything if you can't say how playing as Zelda would be any different from playing as Link besides a skin.
Although I find some of the story ideas entertaining/interesting, let's keep it to GAMEPLAY. BETTER, DIFFERENT story doesn't necessarily make a better Zelda GAME. Read the OP.
Anihawk, find another Zelda thread to troll please.
You're not contributing anything if you can't say how playing as Zelda would be any different from playing as Link besides a skin.
Although I find some of the story ideas entertaining/interesting, let's keep it to GAMEPLAY. BETTER, DIFFERENT story doesn't necessarily make a better Zelda GAME. Read the OP.
Anihawk, find another Zelda thread to troll please.
ElectricBlue187
Member
tanod said:
I'm not a freakin miyamoto, if I knew the answer to that I'd be making it instead of posting here hmm?
The Zelda games are fantastic. The only improvements I would like to see are related to audio/visual presentation along with some improved combat mechanics.
Most importantly, they need to understand the importance of music and sound. There are far too many songs which act as nothing more than background noise. In addition, the actual background noise is rarely even all that good (sound effects). They need to introduce a powerful score and focus more on creating a real sound scape. These games drop you into a world and that world would benefit greatly from powerful audio.
Visually, it's not possible to do what I would like with the Wii console, but eventually, a more robust engine on a more powerful platform (next Nintendo machine?) would be great. Hyrule Field feels so very flat and empty. When I stood at the top of a mountain overlooking the world of Oblivion, I felt a sense of awe. I want to experience that in a Zelda game. Oblivion is a sandbox...yet it was incredible to behold. A hand designed world of such detail would be incredible. The art direction was often very good in TP, but I never felt a sense of place. This could even be done with current hardware. ICO and Shadow of the Colossus did an amazing job presenting a world which felt truly massive. They have the gameplay down in Zelda and I want to see them focus on the atmosphere.
Combat wise, the Zelda games just haven't been all that interesting. The lock-on is OK, but I think it's time to move away from it and try something a bit more open. Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden are far too complex for a Zelda game, but something a bit closer to that would be great. The lock-on was a good solution for N64, but it's just not that exciting. That odd pause they always use to add impact to each hit is also annoying. The combat should feel more exciting and fluid. A lock on system can remain, but it needs to be refined.
Basically, the games are emotionless for me. I want to feel the thrill of combat or the sense of vertigo from standing atop a large tower. I want to feel as if the world were all inter-connected rather than a bunch of individual maps. There has been something missing in every 3D Zelda game for me and I'm positive that it is related to these things. The gameplay is SO GOOD, but the EXPERIENCE could be so much better.
Most importantly, they need to understand the importance of music and sound. There are far too many songs which act as nothing more than background noise. In addition, the actual background noise is rarely even all that good (sound effects). They need to introduce a powerful score and focus more on creating a real sound scape. These games drop you into a world and that world would benefit greatly from powerful audio.
Visually, it's not possible to do what I would like with the Wii console, but eventually, a more robust engine on a more powerful platform (next Nintendo machine?) would be great. Hyrule Field feels so very flat and empty. When I stood at the top of a mountain overlooking the world of Oblivion, I felt a sense of awe. I want to experience that in a Zelda game. Oblivion is a sandbox...yet it was incredible to behold. A hand designed world of such detail would be incredible. The art direction was often very good in TP, but I never felt a sense of place. This could even be done with current hardware. ICO and Shadow of the Colossus did an amazing job presenting a world which felt truly massive. They have the gameplay down in Zelda and I want to see them focus on the atmosphere.
Combat wise, the Zelda games just haven't been all that interesting. The lock-on is OK, but I think it's time to move away from it and try something a bit more open. Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden are far too complex for a Zelda game, but something a bit closer to that would be great. The lock-on was a good solution for N64, but it's just not that exciting. That odd pause they always use to add impact to each hit is also annoying. The combat should feel more exciting and fluid. A lock on system can remain, but it needs to be refined.
Basically, the games are emotionless for me. I want to feel the thrill of combat or the sense of vertigo from standing atop a large tower. I want to feel as if the world were all inter-connected rather than a bunch of individual maps. There has been something missing in every 3D Zelda game for me and I'm positive that it is related to these things. The gameplay is SO GOOD, but the EXPERIENCE could be so much better.
I'd like to see:
-More open, nonlinear overworld, similar to Zelda 1. Give the overworld more life instead of just a large field that you need to traverse to get from dungeon A to dungeon B
-More mysterious, "lonely" feeling to the world
-More emphasis on combat; make it challenging, too
-Cut out the useless filler and minigames. Minigames should be sidequest things, not required for gameplay progress (*cough*Sumo wrestling*cough)
-More open, nonlinear overworld, similar to Zelda 1. Give the overworld more life instead of just a large field that you need to traverse to get from dungeon A to dungeon B
-More mysterious, "lonely" feeling to the world
-More emphasis on combat; make it challenging, too
-Cut out the useless filler and minigames. Minigames should be sidequest things, not required for gameplay progress (*cough*Sumo wrestling*cough)
Y2Kevbug11 said:
I think Wind Waker was the top of their storytelling game, really. Midna is singularly equal or superior to any singular story thing in Wind Waker, but Wind Waker's whole story is far, far more interesting and compelling than TP imo - and the resolution? Infinitely more satisfying.
I think Nintendo is moving towards a more cinematic experience with the Zelda games, and moving away from an open world. Even with the limited amount of dungeons that Windwaker has, it lets you choose between two of them to complete them in any order, at one point. TP is linear linear linear.
Given the controller the Wii has, I think they will go towards a game where you control more precisely Link's sword. Probably the combat will concentrate on the player move like Link would.
Also, they may take away the free camera. At one point of TP development, it was announced that the camera in the dungeons would be more like the 2D Zeldas. This never happened, but they wanted to do it.
So, my guess is that they will stop doing the 3D Zelda games with a big overworld and move towards a more cinematic game, where every action is shown in exactly the way they intended.
Will this be better? Probably. Will the fans complain about it? you bet.
Given the controller the Wii has, I think they will go towards a game where you control more precisely Link's sword. Probably the combat will concentrate on the player move like Link would.
Also, they may take away the free camera. At one point of TP development, it was announced that the camera in the dungeons would be more like the 2D Zeldas. This never happened, but they wanted to do it.
So, my guess is that they will stop doing the 3D Zelda games with a big overworld and move towards a more cinematic game, where every action is shown in exactly the way they intended.
Will this be better? Probably. Will the fans complain about it? you bet.
tanod said:
Forget about bosses, general combat is too easy. I just replayed LTTP, and there wasn't a second I went without a fairy or a red potion, because I NEEDED them. It's very difficult to avoid getting hurt in the 2D Zeldas because the enemies either go right for your jugular, or their movement is hard to predict. In 3D with Z-Lock there's no almost no excuse to ever get hit, plus most enemies are really timid and unaggressive. And course when you DO get hit you never lose many hearts.
Plot !=Story
Zelda games have basic plots (save the princess, get the magical crystals, ect.)
Zelda games can have FANTASTIC stories.
Majora's Mask has a pretty poor plot. You can pitch the game's plot as a basic "madman wants to destroy the world, you gota stop em". But the story of all the smaller stories of the residents of Clocktown is one of the greatest stories in gaming.
Wind Waker and Link's Awakening have the best plot in the series. Setup, conclusion, and the raise and fall of major events were all very right.
Speaking of MM and the open nature of LoZ. Going back after these many years and game+(ing) my old file provides an insanely non-linear world to rediscover. That and MM's action density feels quite similar to the 2d games.
Zelda games have basic plots (save the princess, get the magical crystals, ect.)
Zelda games can have FANTASTIC stories.
Majora's Mask has a pretty poor plot. You can pitch the game's plot as a basic "madman wants to destroy the world, you gota stop em". But the story of all the smaller stories of the residents of Clocktown is one of the greatest stories in gaming.
Wind Waker and Link's Awakening have the best plot in the series. Setup, conclusion, and the raise and fall of major events were all very right.
Speaking of MM and the open nature of LoZ. Going back after these many years and game+(ing) my old file provides an insanely non-linear world to rediscover. That and MM's action density feels quite similar to the 2d games.
badcrumble
Member
Lots more optional items a la ALTTP (ie exploring and doing sidequests nets you more than pieces of heart), true exploration that makes backtracking very rewarding. The basic formula for a successful modern SP game is a strong regular campaign with lots of optional stuff along the way, as well as replay value, and the Zelda games have been unreliable in terms of supplying good side content recently. It seems like we're forced to choose between sidequests and dungeons in the 3D Zelda games because apparently we can't have a lot of both.
It might not fit with the LoZ formula, but I honestly think that a jump button and a more intricate and difficult combat system might be a good idea as well. Something akin to SSBM Link would be pretty interesting, and probably quite manageable, and you could make all of the different "weapon" items work quite handily within such a combat system if it were all fleshed out properly.
It might not fit with the LoZ formula, but I honestly think that a jump button and a more intricate and difficult combat system might be a good idea as well. Something akin to SSBM Link would be pretty interesting, and probably quite manageable, and you could make all of the different "weapon" items work quite handily within such a combat system if it were all fleshed out properly.
badcrumble said:
A jump button should be required, dangit. It's an adventure game. How can they not?
Also, I don't know if I'm remembering correctly but TP on Wii doesn't have camera control. I have the game on Gamecube (that does have control) and I don't see how that would work at all. So I would say find a way to give camera control back.
MasterMFauli
Banned
dark10x said:
Fixed camera was what killed Hyrule Castle Town in Twilight Princess :-/
I've always thought that Zelda has set up these great backstories in so many of its games. Not all of them fit together easily. One of the games I know refers to a great war. I've always thought it would be fun to see a game set in that time. You could be some sort of General moving troops. Securing temples and positions. Fighting in big epic battles with lots of people rather than Link's usual go-it-alone attitude.
I suppose that simply means that Nintendo needs to work on it.MasterMFauli said:
The size, scale, and atmosphere of ICO's castle remains far beyond anything Nintendo has delivered in a Zelda game. I believe, if done well, a fixed camera could work beautifully.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll