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How does Neogaf feel about the Last Jedi?

Personally I hated the film the second it ended and I've never rewatched it since.

I started looking for answers to see if I was alone and saw reddit/r/StarWars tear itself apart with anyone being negative about the film being banned etc or mass downvotes yet the voice seemed pretty strong. Then I started watching the countless YouTube videos hating on the film and couldn't help but agree with all their points. Reddit star wars seems to have become an echo chamber where your voice is stamped down similar to the way all the losers for Resetera use to when they were here.

Has anyone watched these?









I found videos like this pretty amazing.

Anyway, just wondering how people this forum feel about it as I've spent a lot of time on
https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/
Which I guess is a negative echo chamber but again opinions seem stiffed there to a degree as they only let you complain and certain subjects they deem okay as the mods from there are the same as reddit star wars which almost makes me wonder if Disney purposefully made a negative last jedi subreddit in order to take the opinions out of r/starwars so no one can visibly see it? Maybe I'm over thinking it...
 
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In work so cannot watch the videos you provided. I found the film ok apart from the boring casino planet & frozen Leia part. I got my fan service from Luke and it was just a good ole time.

I see a lot more hate on this film than I do any positive. I don’t feel very strongly about Star Wars as a series, so maybe that’s why I can see through it’s flaws and just enjoy it for what it is. A family popcorn sci fi romp. *shrugs*
 

JoduanER2

Member
In work so cannot watch the videos you provided. I found the film ok apart from the boring casino planet & frozen Leia part. I got my fan service from Luke and it was just a good ole time.

I see a lot more hate on this film than I do any positive. I don’t feel very strongly about Star Wars as a series, so maybe that’s why I can see through it’s flaws and just enjoy it for what it is. A family popcorn sci fi romp. *shrugs*

Its boring and the scene with Leia is beyond ridiculous. People need to stop saying this, it has nothing to do with it being a star wars movie, its just a barely average movie period.
 
Its boring and the scene with Leia is beyond ridiculous. People need to stop saying this, it has nothing to do with it being a star wars movie, its just a barely average movie period.

Apparently, doing the math, she flies back to the ship at 407MPH... or 655KPH I know she's a Jedi but she is resistant to having her body ripped apart by decompression at Mach 1 speed, can survive in -100/-200C and flies at 407MPH. That's absurd, she's beyond fucking powerful, at the end of the move she can't move rocks though she needs Rey too. Also, absolutely no explanation as to why when she opens the Door to the Raddus how she doesn't cause the entire ship to decompress and its because of her force usage then why didn't she do it in the first place. She basically resurrects herself it's so confusing. Then no characters at any point even ask her what just happened giving the audience no answer as to what the fuck just happened... Oh by the way she's now dead on real life so I don't know why they didn't just let her go at this moment.
 
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Its boring and the scene with Leia is beyond ridiculous. People need to stop saying this, it has nothing to do with it being a star wars movie, its just a barely average movie period.

Average was basically what I was saying. Star Wars as a series has more bad than good films. It’s been much worse than this in my eyes, so again, for what it is, I thought it was ok. Dunno why that bothers you.
 

120v

Member
i don't think the movie did anything particularly "wrong", just the sum of its parts didn't really work

personally i'm done with this iteration of star wars. i'll still probably check out ep IX on streaming/video about 18 months from now but even if it's amazing it'd have to throw a lot of hail marys to round out the trilogy well.
 
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Apparently, doing the math, she flies back to the ship at 407MPH... or 655KPH I know she's a Jedi but she is resistant to having her body ripped apart by decompression at Mach 1 speed, can survive in -100/-200C and flies at 407MPH. That's absurd, she's beyond fucking powerful, at the end of the move she can't move rocks though she needs Rey too. Also, absolutely no explanation as to why when she opens the Door to the Raddus how she doesn't cause the entire ship to decompress and its because of her force usage then why didn't she do it in the first place. She basically resurrects herself it's so confusing. Then no characters at any point even ask her what just happened giving the audience no answer as to what the fuck just happened... Oh by the way she's now dead on real life so I don't know why they didn't just let her go at this moment.
UCrk.gif
 
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Well if you switch your brain off it’s a brilliant movie ...but the more thought you put into it the worse it gets...like a fast and furious movie
 

Raptomex

Member
It was okay. It wasn't my favorite Star Wars movie but to say it's the worst means it's worse than Episode 2 and that's just bullshit in my opinion.
 

Mr Hyde

Member
It was a boring and pretentious slog. Killed off my interest for Episode 9, maybe even Star Wars as a whole.
 

Klondyke

Banned
Simply put, It is the best Star Wars movie created, after The Empire Strikes Back.

Love it.

Apparently, doing the math, she flies back to the ship at 407MPH... or 655KPH I know she's a Jedi but she is resistant to having her body ripped apart by decompression at Mach 1 speed, can survive in -100/-200C and flies at 407MPH. That's absurd, she's beyond fucking powerful, at the end of the move she can't move rocks though she needs Rey too. Also, absolutely no explanation as to why when she opens the Door to the Raddus how she doesn't cause the entire ship to decompress and its because of her force usage then why didn't she do it in the first place. She basically resurrects herself it's so confusing. Then no characters at any point even ask her what just happened giving the audience no answer as to what the fuck just happened... Oh by the way she's now dead on real life so I don't know why they didn't just let her go at this moment.

It's a space fantasy movie about wizards, anything goes. All logic out of the window.
 
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ChrisDude

Member
Personally I hated the film the second it ended and I've never rewatched it since.

I started looking for answers to see if I was alone and saw reddit/r/StarWars tear itself apart with anyone being negative about the film being banned etc or mass downvotes yet the voice seemed pretty strong. Then I started watching the countless YouTube videos hating on the film and couldn't help but agree with all their points. Reddit star wars seems to have become an echo chamber where your voice is stamped down similar to the way all the losers for Resetera use to when they were here.

Has anyone watched these?









I found videos like this pretty amazing.

Anyway, just wondering how people this forum feel about it as I've spent a lot of time on
https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/
Which I guess is a negative echo chamber but again opinions seem stiffed there to a degree as they only let you complain and certain subjects they deem okay as the mods from there are the same as reddit star wars which almost makes me wonder if Disney purposefully made a negative last jedi subreddit in order to take the opinions out of r/starwars so no one can visibly see it? Maybe I'm over thinking it...





I like the movie a lot. has some really great moments.
 

Gander

Banned
The film feels like it was created by someone who doesn't know the Star Wars universe. They have heard of Star Wars and seen a few clips here and there but never saw anything else. They tried to put together a movie from the bits and pieces they knew. In a technical sense the film is super clean and stylized, indicating the director knows how to make movies. However he know jack shit about Star Wars.
 
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I like the movie a lot. has some really great moments.


The video you posted claims that Luke being cut off from the force completely and drinking milk from the tits of an animal is a great moment. For me it was a what the fuck are you doing? Rian stated in an interview he was never a star wars fan and his treatment of this character shows it. If you wanna make him down and out, sure but I didn't learn anything about Luke, didn't learn anything about his past. It's like a 30 year void with nothing to talk other than nonsense. A girl shows up with his lightsaber that he lost to his father cutting his hand off in probably the biggest moment and failure of his life. He doesn't even care where she found it. She says Leia needs help, he doesn't ask why, we don't even see him morn Hans death... None of that makes any sense.

Simply put, It is the best Star Wars movie created, after The Empire Strikes Back.

Love it.


It's a space fantasy movie about wizards, anything goes. All logic out of the window.

So by your logic if any film is fictional, than nothing matters, you can make up any shitty plot with crap characters and because it isn't real you will consider it a good film.... Riiiiight.
 
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I really liked it despite its flaws.

First of all, I'd say that all the polarizing is a good thing. Star Wars had become so fanserviced it really couldn't move in any direction besides repeating itself with little new to say. It was the case for The Force Awakens. A canonical and rather pointless retreat of the previous films. While I don't think Abrams was a coward for doing what he did, I find the fanbases love for the franchise to be to such a level that it gets mad when big changes are made, regardless if they are good or bad. Which isn't unique for Star Wars fandom at all. Rogue One was a really interesting idea for a movie. A suicide mission in the Star Wars universe is something I was super excited about.
As a fan I was disappointed by the lack of canonical references. "A lot of Bothans died to give us this information"???, but I was also very, very pleased with the last shot of Darth Vader showing a disturbing side of himself I had not even felt in the old movies. Still, Rogue Ones acting was so obnoxious to me. I loved the idea of all the characters. They were like an esenmble of the Dirty Dozen. A group of very different, but capable individuals who would get to have this blaze of glory on the big screen, but ultimately die.

What the Last Jedi for me that made me really appreciate it was that it was willing shake things up. I believe that if you want to make a sequel, don't make more of the same. I have seen enough of the shit the old films were full off. I don't need more of the same. And often, it was the things from the previous film I hated most about TLJ.
Characters like Phasma are pointless to the story, and feel like they are there to sell action figures. Poe and Finn- I don't give a fuck about them. Rey, I liked a lot more in this film. She was way more tolerable and relatable here. Kylo was my favorite though. I loved how the interim emperor was quickly out of the picture. I was so annoyed they tried to make a Emperor 2.0. So they got rid of him. Great.

I absolutely loved what they did with Luke Skywalker. They took the greatest Mary Sue and turned it into a Greek Tragedy. Nobody is stronger than Luke Skywalker. He got dem 9000+ power levels. He has the best Rasengan. You don't fuck with him. But he fucked himself, and what we see in TLJ is a failure. Even as a old man, he is not on Obi-Wans level. Yoda trolls him. Tells him to fuck his jedi books. No more caped mysterious monk bitch. I loved that so much. There is a fourth wall segment in there. "Fuck the old ways, let the younglings write the new shit".
I like that. For too long, blockbuster films are rarely breaking new grounds, but just satisfying fanbases by shoveling some fanservices here and there. Be upset. Fuck off. Find something else you like, and let the kids who grew up with the Prequels appreciate this from another point of view.
 
Its just a bad movie. Totally ignoring all of the usual criticisms (leia, snoke, luke, etc etc) you are still left with a bad movie.

Hell, a lot of things people complain about I wish were doubled down on. I wish Luke was more bitter and angry, and not the weird aloof thing he was. I dont care about the lack of Snoke backstory because I hated his character from the start and wish they pulled a "died on the way to his home planet" between movies.

But none of that matters, because the movie is just poor.

Ive just decided to completely ignore all new Star Wars. Havent seen Solo, wont see any other movies. On the plus side, it got me back into the old stuff and I am enjoying the hell out of the 90s books and games.
 
So by your logic if any film is fictional, than nothing matters, you can make up any shitty plot with crap characters and because it isn't real you will consider it a good film.... Riiiiight.

How did you get from suspension of disbelief for fictional logic/science portrayed in a Hollywood film to supporting shit plots/crap characters?
 

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
Star wars is dead for me since Force Awakens.

Even The phantom menace is my favorite one... the new saga is crap.
 

royox

Member
I saw it twice. Had fun both times and that's the most important thing for me.

It wasn't predictable, Rey x Ben was very interesting, Fuck Rose and her sidequest tho.

Most people hating it is people that wanted it to be a sequel of what Lucas had in mind. They want badass all powerfull Luke, Palpatine's clone opening black holes with the force, etc and they won't go this retarded way.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
I hated it. The idea of the slow speed chase was pulled off infitelty better by Battlestsr Gallactica.
 

JimiNutz

Banned
I was incredibly disappointed when I first saw it due to how generous critics were. I really was expecting something on par with ESB and thought that may actually be the case when it briefly appeared as though Leia died... Unfortunately the scene that followed was one of the worst things I've ever seen on screen and the film never recovered for me.

I reluctantly rewatched the film a few months ago and now that my expectations were much lower I came away thinking that it was an ok movie, maybe 5/10.

My biggest issues were:

That ridiculous Leia scene.
Finn being relegated to a useless character along with the entire Casino planet sequence.
The absurd space 'chase'.
The incredibly anticlimactic final 'battle' between Kylo Renn and Luke.
Rey being incredibly uninteresting as a character and lacking in any kind of charisma.

I have very little interest is seeing the sequel and this was the film that finally made it hit home that Star Wars is a very mediocre and average at best franchise.
 

Kadayi

Banned
A simple search before posting would have thrown a bunch of previous threads. Personally I thought episode 7 was an uninspired mess that traded purely off nostalgia bucks at the cost of creative and narrative originality to the detriment of the IP as a whole. Basically Abrams effectively undid all of the original Trilogy and rebooted with Empire 2.0. I think people were so keen to just have more Star Wars in their life that they were happy to overlook the actual creative paucity of the references burger JJ served up.

Johnson may have set the corpse on fire and then buried it in a shallow grave, but in truth it was Abrams who dragged the franchise out into the back yard and double tapped it in the first place.

Honesty I think as far as trilogies go it's beyond rescuing and frankly I don't see where they go from here truth be told but then nether do I care, save from the perspective of pure morbid curiosity.
 

Typhares

Member
We had a thread where I posted those so yeah I watched them and pretty much agreed. I disliked the movie, watched some scenes again but still that's a no from me.
 

Gander

Banned
Remember after The Force Awakens did the world building and set the stage, it was a long wait for this. A solid two years in fact. To have Luke Skywalker come onto that screen and toss the lightsaber like it was a purple dildo should lack of respect for the audience.
 

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
If they wanna bring back the fans of Star Wars... Do a Favor and Kill Kylo ren and the 90% of the new characters of the new saga.
 

tkscz

Member
I'm not a big Star Wars fan, so I can't judge the movie on the same merits (lore and story). However, I can say from the perspective of writing and directing, I can't stand this movie. Everything was terrible and this coming from a guy who likes the DCEU. The movie feels like it goes out of it's way to make sure everything is written either awkwardly or just bad and it felt like their was little direction. It's not even a turn off your mind fun type of movie. The problems stick out like a sore thumb, so even with your brain off, you notice it. It's just a bad movie all around.
 
I really liked it despite its flaws.

First of all, I'd say that all the polarizing is a good thing. Star Wars had become so fanserviced it really couldn't move in any direction besides repeating itself with little new to say. It was the case for The Force Awakens. A canonical and rather pointless retreat of the previous films. While I don't think Abrams was a coward for doing what he did, I find the fanbases love for the franchise to be to such a level that it gets mad when big changes are made, regardless if they are good or bad. Which isn't unique for Star Wars fandom at all. Rogue One was a really interesting idea for a movie. A suicide mission in the Star Wars universe is something I was super excited about.
As a fan I was disappointed by the lack of canonical references. "A lot of Bothans died to give us this information"???, but I was also very, very pleased with the last shot of Darth Vader showing a disturbing side of himself I had not even felt in the old movies. Still, Rogue Ones acting was so obnoxious to me. I loved the idea of all the characters. They were like an esenmble of the Dirty Dozen. A group of very different, but capable individuals who would get to have this blaze of glory on the big screen, but ultimately die.

What the Last Jedi for me that made me really appreciate it was that it was willing shake things up. I believe that if you want to make a sequel, don't make more of the same. I have seen enough of the shit the old films were full off. I don't need more of the same. And often, it was the things from the previous film I hated most about TLJ.
Characters like Phasma are pointless to the story, and feel like they are there to sell action figures. Poe and Finn- I don't give a fuck about them. Rey, I liked a lot more in this film. She was way more tolerable and relatable here. Kylo was my favorite though. I loved how the interim emperor was quickly out of the picture. I was so annoyed they tried to make a Emperor 2.0. So they got rid of him. Great.

I absolutely loved what they did with Luke Skywalker. They took the greatest Mary Sue and turned it into a Greek Tragedy. Nobody is stronger than Luke Skywalker. He got dem 9000+ power levels. He has the best Rasengan. You don't fuck with him. But he fucked himself, and what we see in TLJ is a failure. Even as a old man, he is not on Obi-Wans level. Yoda trolls him. Tells him to fuck his jedi books. No more caped mysterious monk bitch. I loved that so much. There is a fourth wall segment in there. "Fuck the old ways, let the younglings write the new shit".
I like that. For too long, blockbuster films are rarely breaking new grounds, but just satisfying fanbases by shoveling some fanservices here and there. Be upset. Fuck off. Find something else you like, and let the kids who grew up with the Prequels appreciate this from another point of view.

Nothing you wrote made any sense to me. I just reads like someone who hated the entire universe to begin with. Luke was going to burn the books anyway, then Yoda does his job for him and then Luke, I don't even know why sounds confused and annoyed Yoda burnt the books... Dude... You were about to do that. How is that an awesome moment it makes no sense.
 

plushyp

Member
I can't believe Disney was idiotic enough to let Rian Johnson make his terribad fanfiction come to life. Seriously, who thought it was a good idea. And they spent millions on this garbage....

 
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Dcube

Member
While I think it gets a little too much hate, it's an overall poor movie. Coming out of it my only thoughts were about how boring it was. Nothing interesting really happened, and whenever something interesting was about to, they pulled it away at the last second. I actually appreciate the intent of creating something different and fresh, something I believe the star wars franchise does need especially under Disney, but it was just done poorly here. Bad pacing, weak script, characters badly paired that have no chemistry, and storylines that go nowhere all lead do an experience that just had no impact. It's not as badly made as the prequels, but it's no more enjoyable.
 

Catphish

Member
I can't believe Disney was idiotic enough to let Rian Johnson make his terribad fanfiction come to life. Seriously, who thought it was a good idea. And they spent millions on this garbage....


They also made millions, which is the real tragedy.
 

cr0w

Old Member
It's my second favorite of the series, which I guess is damning praise because I really, really dislike the franchise as a whole. TLJ and Empire are the only two I consider watchable films.
 
Nothing you wrote made any sense to me. I just reads like someone who hated the entire universe to begin with. Luke was going to burn the books anyway, then Yoda does his job for him and then Luke, I don't even know why sounds confused and annoyed Yoda burnt the books... Dude... You were about to do that. How is that an awesome moment it makes no sense.

No, he wasn't. He said he would, but he failed to do it. Yoda scolds him in another scene for his hesitation. Just like his hesitation got him in trouble before when he failed Kylo as a student (hesitating to kill him).

Watch the scene again:




To me there is a strong taoist influence at work here. Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi is not just bitter and angry. He is also still loyal to the Jedi teachings. When Luke wants to burn the texts and the tree it is with the aim to end the jedi. Luke is acting like a Nihilist. He is declaring to the audience that the Jedi has failed and he will end it. But we senses his bluff- He is lying to himself, because we as the audience know who he really is. He is a hero. He is a hero in denial. He openly declares shit he doesn't believe in, hench the fact that he runs into a fucking burning tree when Yoda burns the shit.

Yoda burns the text and tree under a completely different premise from Luke. Not out of spite, anger or bitterness. Yoda is like a Buddha figure. There is no point in glorifying the symbols. He is beyond following the scriptures to a T. Most religions are based on the presumption of worshipping idols, statues and patterns of repeated traditional worship. Yoda is saying that the essence of the Jedi is not within these things. He is going "fuck it."
As wise as Luke is, Yoda is still teaching a powerful lesson about the true meaning of the Jedi and that is awesome. Luke is his own character. He is not another Ben-Kenobi or Qui-Gon Jin. He is wise and powerful, but he has his own demons and shortcomings alltogether and this makes him so much more interesting to me than the usual mentors.

The stereotypical depiction of the Jedi Order has often been so dumb and juvenile. It's sad to see that such an interesting introspection on the order is so misunderstood. Fortunately, there are tons of people who disliked TLJ who still loved the direction they took Luke Skywalker. I fucking loath people who wanted to make Luke this sort of comical POS character like George did with Yoda in Attack of the Clones. Fucking pathetic anime tier dogshit.
 
They took the greatest Mary Sue and turned it into a Greek Tragedy. Nobody is stronger than Luke Skywalker. He got dem 9000+ power levels.

Why does everyone call Luke from the movies a Mary Sue?

His main accomplishment in the first movie happened because he spent his free time flying through canyons shooting very small targets for fun and got good at it. He had a lot of difficulty with the Force, and only used the Force (which in ANH was different to some extent from the Force in other movies) at the end to basically zen out. Han also had to save him in the trench run.

ESB, Luke still has difficulty with using the Force, screws up his training, and ends up being beaten by Vader.

RotJ, Luke beats Jabba by having a back-up plan coordinated with Leia and Lando and dependent on them . His initial plan failed because Hutts cannot be mind tricked. Luke goes to fight the Emporer, and fails. He goes over to the Dark Side briefly and even when he returns is no match for the Emporer. He is only saved because he brings out the remaining good in Vader, who kills the Emporer for him.

Luke in the movies just barely beat an emotionally conflicted Vader, was unable to beat the Emporer, and showed par-for-the-course Force usage.
 

Makariel

Member
I enjoyed the movie and found it to be the best film since Empire (which sits alone on a throne, like Conan).

My personal ranking of Star Wars movies, for those who already wonder what's wrong with me based on above sentence:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Star Wars
--- that were the good ones. Now...
3. The Last Jedi - or how I stopped worrying and embraced the nonsense
4. Episode III - how I got higher ground and cut my best friend's legs off
5. Return of the Jedi - Ewoks can go f*ck themselves as far as I'm concerned
6. Episode I - at least he tried something new
7. Solo
8. The Abrams Awakens and takes SW behind the barn with a loaded shotgun
9. Rogue One a Star Wars prequel I didn't care for and that was only saved by fanservice in the last 5 minutes #Vader
10. Episode II - I hate sand.
 
Why does everyone call Luke from the movies a Mary Sue?

His main accomplishment in the first movie happened because he spent his free time flying through canyons shooting very small targets for fun and got good at it. He had a lot of difficulty with the Force, and only used the Force (which in ANH was different to some extent from the Force in other movies) at the end to basically zen out. Han also had to save him in the trench run.

ESB, Luke still has difficulty with using the Force, screws up his training, and ends up being beaten by Vader.

RotJ, Luke beats Jabba by having a back-up plan coordinated with Leia and Lando and dependent on them . His initial plan failed because Hutts cannot be mind tricked. Luke goes to fight the Emporer, and fails. He goes over to the Dark Side briefly and even when he returns is no match for the Emporer. He is only saved because he brings out the remaining good in Vader, who kills the Emporer for him.

Luke in the movies just barely beat an emotionally conflicted Vader, was unable to beat the Emporer, and showed par-for-the-course Force usage.

There is no strict definition for Mary Sue. The term is applied to a wide array of characters in fiction, but with regards to Luke the explanation lies in that he is powerful because of his blood. This is a trope that you see in a lot of Fiction. Take Harry Potter for example. It is easy to write your character to be the only one who can save the Universe when it is mainly due to your powerful family. And it's boring.
Being a Mary Sue doesn't mean you cannot have problems or trials. Superman is still a Mary Sue even though his weakness is Kryptonite.

Luke can shoot Womprats or fly around in his little Speeder on Tattooine, but that does not make him worthy of the being the sole individual who can save the Universe? And the characters in the film routinely tells us that Luke is the hero. The spin of this in the prequels is of course that, it's actually Darth Vader who is the hero. He is the one who brings balance into the Force. He destroys the Jedi Order and the Emperor in the end. Luke is a text-book hero. He is so good, kind and heroically good all around. His only flaws is that he listens too much and works too hard.

Darth Vader and Han Solo are more nuanced characters. Darth Vaders story is about redemption, and Han Solos is about Apathy. There is a much stronger character mentality shift than for Luke who remains the good guy he started out as at the end. That naivity Luke has, in the beginning, is still the sort of idealistic determination he brings to the end, and that is proxy for Darth Vaders character development (killing the emperor).

I don't think we should use a Mary Sue is a derogatory term, but I do think that Mary Sue characters are easy to write and that they lack the fundamental dramatic shifts of more flawed characters. Mary Sue characters are a major problem in super hero comics and fantasy fiction where they are also depicted as powerful beings with a few inserted kryptonite moments added in.

Sometimes you'll have interesting takes on the Mary Sue formula. Aragorn in the Lord of the Rings is tormented by his family blood. He has a long lifespan and is seen as being more powerful than normal men, but at the same time his house is credited with being weak to the influence of the Ring. Or in Naruto it is explained to us that Naruto is a descendant from a powerful house of Ninja users, but his power is also derived from the beast within him. Kishimoto writes this beast to also be a burden that can kill him, and hurt his friends. Both characters also fit under the Mary Sue umbrella but have their own spins on it.

I don't mean to say that Luke is a bad character. But I did find him boring by the end. I did find him too good- Like a Superman. Lukes best moment in the OT is when he faces Darth Vader prematurely and losses his hand. But obviously it doesn't stop him and merely sets up another shounen power upgrade session. Which is fine, but ultimately less compelling than the character shift of Han or Darth Vader.

If you were going to bring a character like Luke Skywalker back, and not do the same shit as you did with your typical mentor-for-the-hero characters, I think what they did with Luke in TLJ was super cool. It has more of a significance because Luke is like Space Jesus. He is the hero of heroes for boys and men. An all powerful bad ass. Super cool. When I was a kid I loved Luke the most and identified with him. When I grew up I realized he wasn't very multilayered. And that is okay. I was just happy they made him more interesting in the TLJ than he had ever been before.

It comes down to having seen that sort of infallible heroic good type of hero so many times. So many video games where the player character is a similar save-the-universe-type of character, explained by tropes. Rian Johnson felt SW was treading the same ground, so he took it a different direction. Shame about the prison planet, shame about the fluff plot and characters like Phasma. Shame about all the cute critters who are there to primarily sell toys. But I am fine with all of that. I loved Yoda and Luke in this film.
 

ChrisDude

Member
The video you posted claims that Luke being cut off from the force completely and drinking milk from the tits of an animal is a great moment. For me it was a what the fuck are you doing? Rian stated in an interview he was never a star wars fan and his treatment of this character shows it. If you wanna make him down and out, sure but I didn't learn anything about Luke, didn't learn anything about his past. It's like a 30 year void with nothing to talk other than nonsense. A girl shows up with his lightsaber that he lost to his father cutting his hand off in probably the biggest moment and failure of his life. He doesn't even care where she found it. She says Leia needs help, he doesn't ask why, we don't even see him morn Hans death... None of that makes any sense.



So by your logic if any film is fictional, than nothing matters, you can make up any shitty plot with crap characters and because it isn't real you will consider it a good film.... Riiiiight.

Why do people get hung up on Luke drinking milk from a space cow? You drink milk too right? You know where it comes from? Cow tits.
 

AlphaMale

Member
The Last Jedi sucked, IMO.
There are just too many things that made it dumb. I could write paragraphs, but I'll save you the trouble. Movie sucked.
 
Luke can shoot Womprats or fly around in his little Speeder on Tattooine, but that does not make him worthy of the being the sole individual who can save the Universe?

He had a skill he built up over years of practice in a believable situation. That at is quite literally the opposite of why a Mary Sue is able to do something spectacular. Because of his experience, he that was his role in the trench run - everyone else was running defense for him. He never shot down three Tie Fighters with one shot on his first try while making the final kill shot - a bunch of pilots died, and he would have as well if Han had not saved him.

I don't think the Force is ever explicitly said in the OT to be entirely blood based either - Luke just started getting trained by Obi Wan because he saw Obi Wan do some neat tricks and it interested him. His motivation gradually shifted to redeeming his father.

Rian Johnson felt SW was treading the same ground

So he made a super Mary Sue who is the most hyper-skilled badass in the universe to replace the guy who grew and trained over three movies?
 
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Vlaphor

Member
I kinda liked it at first, but the more I think about it, the less I like it. I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, I just didn't find it enjoyable.
 
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