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How does the PS3 handle resolution scaling?
- Thread starter AltogetherAndrews
- Start date
manngc said:
its not an issue for upscaling DVD players (or PS3 bluray playback) because its a more controlled environment. You don't notice a few milliseconds controller lag as long as the video and audio are in sync.
As for the scaler issue. Well the 360 has one and its lovely. Its a shame that the PS3 doesn't but it would have added cost (perhaps they could leave the GS+EE in there and use it as a scaler - the GS + 32MB would be plenty I'd have thought).
But I don't think this is something a quick firmware fix will address. I think people that don't have TVs supporting 720p inputs may just have to accept 480p on a lot of their games.
As for the 360 being limited to no HDMI - doesn't really matter. The analog scaler is nice (although masks lower resolutions and lets devs get away with it), and HDMI isn't that important, just another connector. ICT could have made it critical, but clearly MS are confident enough in ICT being restricted to release a HDDVD player on an analog only console.
No one is blaming you, but you were impatient in buying a HD-ready tv when the HD standard wasn't even fully ironed-out yet. I thought it was understood that 1080i sets were merely a stopgap. That said, they should fix the scaler problem. It can't be more than a firmware issue since scaling can be done in hw, and there's an entire SPU reserved for OS functions. PEACE.bill0527 said:
soul creator
Member
Onix said:
unless it happens to be a TV that accepts 720p, but downscales it to 480p!
(lol, oddly enough, my family has a Sony TV that does this. At least according to the user manual for it)
Leo the 3rd
Lord of the Manberries
And of course this is only for games that have a max resolution of 720p. For the games that go to 1080i/1080p your set shouldn't have any problems. I have a 4 year old Mits 65819 RPTV which does 1080i/480p/480i and I have Resistance and plan on playing it this Friday (after getting my PS3) so I'll see how well/bad it does on an older set up. I may see that front projector taking it's rightful place in my theater room in the near future.
Leo the 3rd said:
Yeah...I don't expect many 1080p games honestly. The only launch title at 1080p is RR7 and graphically it's one of the weakest of the bunch (just above last-gen ports). I think 720p is still going to be the majority with the PS3 and that's really going to **** over the small but extremely pissed off audience with 1080i only tvs.
sooperkool
Member
Pimpwerx said:
Kind of like buying a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player before the HD optical disc standard has been ironed out? See how stupid what I said sounded, same principle. I mean we could all just always wait for the next big thing before we make a purchase but perhaps current and recently past popular standards be supported. As always I have to say that this is really no concern to me since I won't be getting a PS3 but I do empathize with people in this situation.
This problem won't affect me, but since there's a lot of knowledable people posting in this thread, quick question...
I have a 1080p Sony XSRD TV. I connect to my TV through component, as the VGA on my TV won't support 1080p (only HDMI on my set can do 1080p).
Should I have my Xbox 360 set to 720p or 1080i - and why?
I have a 1080p Sony XSRD TV. I connect to my TV through component, as the VGA on my TV won't support 1080p (only HDMI on my set can do 1080p).
Should I have my Xbox 360 set to 720p or 1080i - and why?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I think you wanted to say "if a TV is *not* connected via HDMI"?Y2Kevbug11 said:
Yes, you can watch at least 1080i through component, probably 1080p too if the TV supports 1080p through component.
a Master Ninja
Member
I know Sony is trying to push this 1080P TRUEHD garbage, but they shouldn't let it hinder their business like this. I don't think this problem will be widespread, but it is a signficant enough problem to not be happy about. 1080i support should be there on day one.
Between this and not being able to play PS1 games on day one on PS3 and online issues I think it is safe to wait at least 6 months for this system. Need to work out too many damn kinks.
Between this and not being able to play PS1 games on day one on PS3 and online issues I think it is safe to wait at least 6 months for this system. Need to work out too many damn kinks.
Kangu said:
Your TV will scale the 720P game to 1080P.
This is mainly in issue with HDTVs which dont support 720P. Nowadays all TVs support 720P. It isn't a major issue, except for the fact that it seems like the decision was made to appease corporate tightwads instead of the people who actually buy the system with the lack of 1080i support.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
I'd suggest doing a Google search with your model number and some relevant terms (1080i, 720p, scaler, etc), or check out the CRT board at AVS Forum and see if you can find anything about your model number. I don't want to scare you, but Philips (along with Panasonic) CRTs are notorious for being 480i/p/1080i ONLY. If you have an HD cable box, upscaling DVD player, etc, try setting it to 720p and see what happens.Chris_C said:
soul creator
Member
Chris_C said:
"Supported Display Resolution
Video formats : 480p (60Hz Refresh rate), 1080i (60Hz Refresh rate) "
which probably means you will be affected by this issue (PS3 games that run in 720p will run in 480p instead)
I would imagine that if it was able to do anything with 720p, it would've listed it under supported display resolution
edit: yeah, test it with a 360...if you get a blank screen, then that means it isn't supported.
nicholasbrutal
Epic Games PR Manager
My set upscales everything, as far as I know, to 1080i, so I'm definitely effected by this. I'm absolutely stunned by this. It should be a non-issue. I'd wager than more than half of the people camped out to get a PS3 don't even have a high definition television to begin with.
cheekymunky
Banned
Shompola said:
did you ride the short school bus?
CamHostage
Member
nicholasbrutal said:
If your set upscales everything, you are definitely NOT affected by this. It takes it in and scales it. The problem is where it doesn't take 720p. Check your set or test something that's set to 720p, see which switches to what.
Everyone is making this look like this is some "Oversight" by Sony, let's remember that the PS3 WAS supposed to be released this spring, but they had to wait for HDMI to get finalized, well that would mean HDMI was REAL important to them, and NOT because of picture quality(component and VGA look great) it's Piracy, they wan't to be able to kick in that "token " in HDCP, if they allowed a scaler to be used you could get around the 540p limitation of the "token" thats also why the 360 has a VGA cable(capable of 1080P) and Sony NEVER will.
Brimstone said:
Well, it looks like I've got a scaler, I set the 360 t output at 720p and so and the TV flickered for a second, then a popup came up to inform that the image being displayed was 1080i. It doesn't look as good as the 360's internal scaler, but it ain't bad.
Hopefully well get a firmware upgrade from Sony to rectify this issue.
EDIT: Oddly enough my framerate seems to be stuttering. HDTV lag? The framerate of videos and games seems to have gone down.
I can promise you, that on a NON PROTECTED output(anything but HDMI) that you will NEVER see "scaling", Right this second it looks very innocent, than BAM..."token" kicks in and all analog and digital output is limited to 540(ESP. for Blue-Ray), you'll see...BTW "token" is limited to movies...right now, maybe Games later...
JCBossman said:
What are you talking about? BluRay movies are 1080p (1080i for analog).
The only scaling that happens is downscaling if you set the output to a lower resolution.
Sony Electronics doesn't control whether the image constraint or digital only tokens are enacted.
That is up to the movie studios (at least to do it before the AACS sunset date).
Wow ... worst ... FUD ... evar.
Than Riddle me this, why no VGA cable, why is resistance stuck at 720p at the console level?, this isn't a technical issue with the game, this is simply a console restriction. ALL 360 games can be upconverted, this is a delibrate attempt to keep control of a "NEW" Semi-propierty format "Blu-Ray" these game issues are just symtoms of the "Piracy Protection" desease.The ONLY REAL control Sony has is on HDMI, every OTHER connection is the Wild West and Sony Knows it.
Further update on a possible fix through custom resolution option...and a final explanation.
The problem is that the PS3 believes 720p to be a higher resolution than 1080i. So if you set your XMB/System to 1080i it thinks you can't do 720p, which is why it drops you to 480p if the game can't do 1080i.
But if you go into custom and check 480p, 1080i, then 720p...it forces your XMB/System to 720p because it thinks 720p is better than 1080i and since you can handle it you'd obviously want your XMB/System in 720p.
Bottom line? This will be an EASY FIX FOR SONY on firmware update. Hell if I worked for them I could probably even program the fix in about 10 mins. All they need to do is tell the XMB/System to NOT FORCE 720p JUST BECAUSE YOUR SYSTEM CAN ACCEPT IT. If they turned that switch off, you'd be able to play at 1080i and then when a game runs at 720p, it'd just switch over to 720p when loading the game...no problem.
Note this does not fix anything for the people screwed with 1080i only sets. But it would fix having to manually go and switch the resolution back and forth depending on the game/movie.
The problem is that the PS3 believes 720p to be a higher resolution than 1080i. So if you set your XMB/System to 1080i it thinks you can't do 720p, which is why it drops you to 480p if the game can't do 1080i.
But if you go into custom and check 480p, 1080i, then 720p...it forces your XMB/System to 720p because it thinks 720p is better than 1080i and since you can handle it you'd obviously want your XMB/System in 720p.
Bottom line? This will be an EASY FIX FOR SONY on firmware update. Hell if I worked for them I could probably even program the fix in about 10 mins. All they need to do is tell the XMB/System to NOT FORCE 720p JUST BECAUSE YOUR SYSTEM CAN ACCEPT IT. If they turned that switch off, you'd be able to play at 1080i and then when a game runs at 720p, it'd just switch over to 720p when loading the game...no problem.
Note this does not fix anything for the people screwed with 1080i only sets. But it would fix having to manually go and switch the resolution back and forth depending on the game/movie.
Chris_C said:
Somone mentioned increased latency for video games if you use a HDTV's scaler. I'm not sure if it's a result of the scalar unit being digital or whatever. The XB360 internal scalar is analog, not digital.
If you are noticing this this problem I have a feeling this is going to effect a lot of CRT HDTV owners. This problem has the potential to be massive.
I'm shocked the gaming press wasn't aware of this. I guess they all game on flat panels.
JCBossman said:
Who knows, maybe one is coming out?
Because the PS3 doesn't appear to have a dedicated scaler. It outputs games at native res.
Because it has a dedicated analog scaler connected to the Xenos DAC.
PS3 decodes BluRay via software ... so it can scale it to whatever resolution it needs to.
There is no 'upscaling' to ever be done, only downscaling since the movies are encoded at 1080p
Are you implying Sony is going to prevent 1080i/720p output of BluRay movies via component?
storybook77
Member
Looks like I'll be waiting to get a PS3 until they either allow upscaling or I get 2 new tvs (wife wants me to have a game room when we get a bigger house and I'll be getting a new tv for the den but if PS3 requires a 720p input then I would also need a new tv for the game room). Thanks Sony!!! The HD era doesn't start until you buy a brand new HDTV I guess. :lol
:\
The chances of that scenario in the parentheses actually happening.....slim to none. I'm going to have enough of a battle just getting the one new tv.
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The chances of that scenario in the parentheses actually happening.....slim to none. I'm going to have enough of a battle just getting the one new tv.
.I AM EXPLICTLY saying in my opinion, at some point Sony is going to limit EVEN ANALOG to 540, the format is "shit" to Sony even though they developed it, what did it cost a few hundred million? Thats the cost of ONE of thier NEW Blockbuster Movies...Chump Change Developing Blu-Ray, but to Protect those MANY New 200+Million dollar movie sales priceless...
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