• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

HTC Vive to be released in April 2016

Shoyz

Member
It definitely sounds like those were the softlaunch kits to me if the hardware is unchanged. Maybe they needed to tweak something for the real CV?

Is there any way to get confirmation on how the DK2s will be distributed? This delay would be insignificant if they'll be sold first-come first-serve, which was the impression I got when I read how specific they were about it in their statement. It just seems weird for them to specify 7000 units and a CES launch if it's just going out to cherry picked devs again. Just me?
 
I hope it's a great product that is affordable etc etc

what i expect it to be, as is with most valve products, to be half finished, buggy and full of promise which remain undelivered
 
I wouldn't even be 100% convinced this thing is going to come out at all. HTC as a company may very well be filing for bankruptcy next year, and launching AFTER Oculus at a no doubt HIGHER price point is just digging their hole deeper. This is by no stretch a guaranteed consumer product at this point.

There's no way this thing isn't coming out. Whether HTC will be providing support for it in a year's time from release is another matter...
 
P4wt1jp.gif
 

viveks86

Member
Limited "launch" to developers? Dafuq? Releasing to devs isn't a "launch" by any stretch. They've been misleading everyone for months!
 
Limited "launch" to developers? Dafuq? Releasing to devs isn't a "launch" by any stretch. They've been misleading everyone for months!

Probably bunk but saw this linked on r/vive:

http://pastebin.com/embed_js.php?i=eSrfwwpU

1- HTC has known about the delay for many months. The June shareholder report was hotly debated internally. Cher Wang, the CEO, already had to apologize for missing targets, losing money, and killing wearable projects after investing millions. They already knew they would miss their holiday target, but announcing a delay for Vive - one of only two brights spots in the company, along with the iPhone clone Hero phone - was deemed too risky with HTC stock at an all time low. They decided to wait until after their stock buyback propped up the share price.

2- The delay crept further and further, but project managers tried their best to hide that from subordinates and leadership, fearing a leak or termination. Few people knew about the delay, or the reasons for it, even HTC employees working hard on the project. The reasons are as follow:

---2.1 The displays are not ready. I do not know all the details, but HTC and Valve both wanted to ship the same resolution as Oculus for compatibility and performance reasons. Oculus tried to keep the resolution of Crescent Bay confidential, but Valve-friendly developers with prototype hardware were happy to help with anything that would ensure easy multiplatform support. Their displays have the same resolution as Oculus, but have a critical flaw: pixel consistency. On low brightness and low contrast scenes, a lack of uniform pixel brightness leads to a rainbow speckle pattern on the image that moves with your head, like screen door effect, but much finer and all different colors. The dev units have this issue a little bit, but the panels used are binned to select for only the panels with the best performance, much like binned CPUs that overclock with more reliability.

---2.2 The camera system is not ready. HTC is working with an external partner on the camera. This partner made bold claims about what they system could do, but could not deliver. HTC is now left with decision: Reduce cost by removing the camera and going back on their announcement, or including the camera and relying on future software updates for full feature operations.

---2.3 Build quality is not ready. The new ergonomic design is comfortable, but much harder to manufacture. Many moving parts all conspire to break often. They can still ship, but only knowing that many Vives will fail in homes and need replacing. This is a very expensive way to ship a device, because purchase price has to cover warranty as well! And the next part...

--2.4 The cost is more than expected. Now that the design is final, HTC knows what it costs to build. The building cost is similar to Oculus, because they use similar components. If HTC decides and announces price now, they don\'t know what will happen, and everyone might go crazy. It is safer to wait for Oculus to announce, see what the price is, see if customers like the price, then decide how much profit they can afford. They can bundle free movies or games to make Vive appear even more attractive. This part is only a guess: HTC might have to do something crazy if Oculus announces a price that is too low, like removing a Lighthouse or the camera.

Massive grain of salt and all that but seems plausible.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Probably bunk but saw this linked on r/vive:

http://pastebin.com/embed_js.php?i=eSrfwwpU



Massive grain of salt and all that but seems plausible.

I don't believe any of this for a second. "HTC and Valve both wanted to ship the same resolution as Oculus for compatibility and performance reasons" is a stupid way to make a developer kit, when it is more than likely they both went for the best solution they could find. There is no compatibility reasoning that would make sense. The last part makes no sense considering there is second dev kit on the way for CES and then a Consumer Version.

Seems like it will be book-ended by Rift and PSVR.
...assuming Rift will be out by Q1.

I expect the Rift to come out before hand at this point. Should be an exciting mess when they all hit in a short time frame and try to out do each other!
 
I don't believe any of this for a second. "HTC and Valve both wanted to ship the same resolution as Oculus for compatibility and performance reasons" is a stupid way to make a developer kit, when it is more than likely they both went for the best solution they could find. There is no compatibility reasoning that would makes sense. The last part makes no sense considering there is second dev kit on the way for CES and then a Consumer Version.

True, just found the same thing posted to r/oculus and the guy is a known troll apparently, also one of Hover Junkers devs shot it down pretty fast.
 
I agree that there's no way that's factual, insider knowledge, but it does probably get a few things right based purely on educated guesses. HTC is in a very vulnerable place as a company and can't afford to sell at-cost like Oculus can. I hope the Rift is priced extremely aggressively, forcing HTC to make a big move to appear the better value. Based on the facts we have now, I believe the Vive is the better hardware, but I'll go Oculus if there's reasonable doubts about the post-launch support of HTC's product.
 
I don't believe any of this for a second. "HTC and Valve both wanted to ship the same resolution as Oculus for compatibility and performance reasons" is a stupid way to make a developer kit, when it is more than likely they both went for the best solution they could find.
I dunno, I always found it suspicious and weird that they were both the exact same resolution, when that resolution isn't a normal screen resolution for mobile displays (1200x1080). I mean, we know Oculus has exclusive access to Samsung displays, that was the point of their working with Samsung on the Gear VR, as an exchange for exclusive cutting edge display tech. It's also weird that the Vive's internal rendering resolution is different from the display resolution.
 

Bsigg12

Member
Probably bunk but saw this linked on r/vive:

http://pastebin.com/embed_js.php?i=eSrfwwpU



Massive grain of salt and all that but seems plausible.

I can see some of it being true, specifically anything regarding shares and value of the company. HTC is struggling still. They have come back from the $40 per share hell they were in September (currently at $78) but it's a far cry from their $159 trading price from January. Trying to mitigate damage while trying to rebuild value seems like something a company would do but I'm just an internet forum goer who only lightly follows trends.
 
No way am I getting the Vive. I'd have to get a new PC first, which I have zero plans to do. Also I don't have the space to set up the lighboxes.

Although, down the road, should there be a Vive2, if it can be sold in one package with a powerful enough computer for sub $1000, I'd probably bite.
 

Soi-Fong

Member
The boss told me about this. This is good that HTC made this info public. As developers for the Vive, we got this info firsthand.

I'm excited too since my boss told me that we're confirmed to get the new dev kits January.

The second dev kits I can say won't be sold like the Rift DK2. You'll have to sign up with a project, company etc like the first dev kit and get chosen.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
The final specs are locked by now I imagine? I'm trying not to oversaturate with info as it will just make the wait longer.
 
The boss told me about this. This is good that HTC made this info public. As developers for the Vive, we got this info firsthand.

I'm excited too since my boss told me that we're confirmed to get the new dev kits January.

The second dev kits I can say won't be sold like the Rift DK2. You'll have to sign up with a project, company etc like the first dev kit and get chosen.

Not sure if you've mentioned it here before, can you say what game you're working on, or roughly what sort of thing it is? Would be curious to follow it.
 

Soi-Fong

Member
Not sure if you've mentioned it here before, can you say what game you're working on, or roughly what sort of thing it is? Would be curious to follow it.

We're working on two specific things with HTC as they reached out to us after inquiring about our Oculus Rift DK2 endeavors. I can't really say much more than that unfortunately. We have many NDA's in place so I can't really specify anything too much.
 
We're working on two specific things with HTC as they reached out to us after inquiring about our Oculus Rift DK2 endeavors. I can't really say much more than that unfortunately. We have many NDA's in place so I can't really specify anything too much.

Gotcha, either way excited to see what it is! As goes for anything vr lol.
 

Soi-Fong

Member
The wait is so painful


New NVIDIA cards should be out too right

I myself am excited as well for next year. Just learned from the boss that they're willing to foot the bill up to $1000 for a new videocard for my home rig at home. I was talking to my boss about the upcoming Pascal cards and he's like, "yeah sure, we'll get it for you." I was happy as a child in a candy store hearing that. lol
 
So is there a fairly recent write up of the 3 VR headsets I can check out? Don't know if I'm going to drop $300-$500 on one, but I am curious to know how they each stack up hardware and software wise in case I suddenly catch the hype-bug.
 
So is there a fairly recent write up of the 3 VR headsets I can check out? Don't know if I'm going to drop $300-$500 on one, but I am curious to know how they each stack up hardware and software wise in case I suddenly catch the hype-bug.
Here's my quick hardware summary:

HTC Vive: resolution 1080x1200 per eye, 90hz screen refresh. Comes with a pair of wireless 3D motion controllers (for virtual hands), its specialty is standing and physically walking around in your room while you experience virtual environments (which gives the ultimate "you are there" experience), though it can of course be used sitting down or standing without moving. Uses a pair of wireless "lighthouses", lasers that (basically) triangulate the positions of the headset and controllers. Slightly more accurate positioning than Oculus or PSVR. Costs "a premium price for the premium VR experience", release April 2016

Oculus Rift: resolution 1080x1200 per eye, 90hz screen refresh. Comes with standard wireless XBox One controller, it's more based around sitting/standing in one place while looking around (though it can detect walking in a small area, larger areas with a second camera). "Oculus Touch" 3D motion controllers are coming Q2 2016. Uses a small camera to track the position of the headset and Oculus Touch. Costs "more than $350", sold for cost, no profit from hardware, release Q1 2016

Sony PSVR: resolution 960x1080 per eye, refresh capable of 60hz, 90hz, 120hz (game chooses refresh). Works with normal wireless PS4 controllers and wireless PS Move 3D motion controllers (unknown if Move will be packed with it). Like Oculus, PSVR is more for sitting/standing than moving around. Uses PlayStation Eye camera to track movement of the headset and controllers. Will be priced "similar to new gaming platforms", but "will be as low-priced as possible", release "first half" 2016
 

Sitris

Member
Interesting to see if this device can get as much attention as it's direct competitors (Playstation and Occulus). I would imagine if either of these companies announced release dates it would be a much fast growing thread on this forum.

It's also going to be interesting to see what games are going to have "first on..." or "exclusive to..." for this device, as both occulus and playstation are trying to get as many exclusive games as possible (and seemingly succeeding). I don't know of any games of the top of my head that are only going to be for this device. That is mostly my lack of knowledge though as I am not as in the know for the Vive.

I also hope it isn't as (again from my knowledge) lacklustre of a launch as the steam machines had. I am aware it's a very different product launch, but this device does seem to be the least 'hyped' of the VR headsets.
 
So Q1-Q2 for the VR launches,I best get saving.Still conflicted on all three.Only time will tell,and there's plenty of that now
 
It's also going to be interesting to see what games are going to have "first on..." or "exclusive to..." for this device, as both occulus and playstation are trying to get as many exclusive games as possible (and seemingly succeeding). I don't know of any games of the top of my head that are only going to be for this device. That is mostly my lack of knowledge though as I am not as in the know for the Vive.

Hover Junkers, Fantastic Contraption and Tilt Brush are so far are Vive-only I think, but Valve and HTC have been constantly talking about how they're against exclusives, so they're not going out making deals. That might hurt them in the long run.
 
Hover Junkers, Fantastic Contraption and Tilt Brush are so far are Vive-only I think, but Valve and HTC have been constantly talking about how they're against exclusives, so they're not going out making deals. That might hurt them in the long run.

Do you know if steam will officially support Oculus hardware? Or since the advent of the SteamVR standard are they "dropping" Oculus support in favor of the former?
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Here's my quick hardware summary:

HTC Vive: resolution 1080x1200 per eye, 90hz screen refresh. Comes with a pair of wireless 3D motion controllers (for virtual hands), its specialty is standing and physically walking around in your room while you experience virtual environments (which gives the ultimate "you are there" experience), though it can of course be used sitting down or standing without moving. Uses a pair of wireless "lighthouses", lasers that (basically) triangulate the positions of the headset and controllers. Slightly more accurate positioning than Oculus or PSVR. Costs "a premium price for the premium VR experience", release April 2016

Oculus Rift: resolution 1080x1200 per eye, 90hz screen refresh. Comes with standard wireless XBox One controller, it's more based around sitting/standing in one place while looking around (though it can detect walking in a small area, larger areas with a second camera). "Oculus Touch" 3D motion controllers are coming Q2 2016. Uses a small camera to track the position of the headset and Oculus Touch. Costs "more than $350", sold for cost, no profit from hardware, release Q1 2016

Sony PSVR: resolution 960x1080 per eye, refresh capable of 60hz, 90hz, 120hz (game chooses refresh). Works with normal wireless PS4 controllers and wireless PS Move 3D motion controllers (unknown if Move will be packed with it). Like Oculus, PSVR is more for sitting/standing than moving around. Uses PlayStation Eye camera to track movement of the headset and controllers. Will be priced "similar to new gaming platforms", but "will be as low-priced as possible", release "first half" 2016

Thanks for the great summary. Just what I was looking for.

So given that PSVRs resolution is half of the competition. I'm not hearing a lot of folks complaining about it when they try the demos. I know the eye more sensitive to vertical resolution. Interesting.
The good news is the PC hardware requirements for a PC modded PSVR will be a lot lower then the other two.
 

Jzero

Member
I really want the Vive but i'm cheap so i'll probably get the Rift now that they're coming out around the same time.
 
People waiting for Half Life 3 and Vive be like:

tumblr_mt0pskibfN1qz5q5lo1_250.gif


I do want one, but the PSVR has some amazing looking games as well. Arrrrgh why do I have to wait :(

I wouldn't even be 100% convinced this thing is going to come out at all. HTC as a company may very well be filing for bankruptcy next year (>50%), and launching AFTER Oculus at a no doubt HIGHER price point is just digging their hole deeper. This is by no stretch a guaranteed consumer product at this point.

Cx7P4Wr.png


http://www.businessinsider.com/android-fragmentation-and-htc-sales-and-profits-2015-8?r=UK&IR=T

v92c70X.png


Sensationalist maybe but still worth putting out there!
:(
 

UrbanRats

Member
Hover Junkers, Fantastic Contraption and Tilt Brush are so far are Vive-only I think, but Valve and HTC have been constantly talking about how they're against exclusives, so they're not going out making deals. That might hurt them in the long run.

Palmer Luckey also said this on r/Oculus:

If customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want. As I have said a million times (and counter to the current circlejerk), our goal is not to profit by locking people to only our hardware - if it was, why in the world would we be supporting GearVR and talking with other headset makers? The software we create through Oculus Studios (using a mix of internal and external developers) are exclusive to the Oculus platform, not the Rift itself.

The issue is people who expect us to officially support all headsets on a platform level with some kind of universal Oculus SDK, which is not going to happen anytime soon. We do want to work with other hardware vendors, but not at the expense of our own launch, and certainly not in a way that leads to developing for the lowest common denominator - there are a lot of shitty headsets coming, a handful of good ones, and a handful that may never even hit the market. Keep in mind that support for the good ones requires cooperation from both parties, which is sometimes impossible for reasons outside our control.
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/com...terfun_fact_nintendo_doesnt/cxr6rid?context=3
(scroll down to see it highlighted in yellow)
 

Relique

Member
I wouldn't even be 100% convinced this thing is going to come out at all. HTC as a company may very well be filing for bankruptcy next year (>50%), and launching AFTER Oculus at a no doubt HIGHER price point is just digging their hole deeper. This is by no stretch a guaranteed consumer product at this point.

I doubt a product like this is gonna make a difference in the grand scheme of things. Q1 or Q2 this was always gonna be a limited run of a very expensive niche product. It was never going to set the world on fire and save the company with it's sales in the first couple of years and if it fails miserably it will probably mean very little for the company overall.

Their patents for this technology is probably worth at least as much as their R&D costs so I that is a non issue.
 
What do you mean, seeing Steam itself in Oculus?

Yeah Steam has a VR mode for the Oculus Devkits does it not? I think it was basically just big picture mode? I'm wondering if they'll continue to support that kind of thing or put their focus purely on the SteamVR headsets.

I'm sure you can purchase VR games through steam for the Rift (I know Elite Dangerous supports it), I just wonder if they'll advertise "Oculus Support" alongside SteamVR.
 
Top Bottom