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HTC Vive to be released in April 2016

Exclusivity with the Vive is odd...I don't know if it's possible, without just manually detecting which device is hooked up and choosing not to run if it isn't Vive. Because its SDK, SteamVR/OpenVR, is supposed to be platform-agnostic; if you use SteamVR to write a game, it supports both Vive and Rift, and they'll add more platforms in the future. For example, the game Elite:Dangerous stopped supporting Oculus a couple months ago waiting for their SDK releases to stabilize, so you can't run it on an Oculus dev kit in Windows 10. But the latest beta of Elite:Horizons adds Vive support, and you can use that to run the game with the newest Oculus drivers in Windows 10.

It'll be more about games designed for the room-scale walking around; the Vive is best at that so those games, while possibly not exclusive to Vive, will definitely be best played on a Vive, at least at first.
 

Arkanius

Member
I want Vive to be successful, but it feels they are coming too late to the market when Oculus is trying everything to lock in vendors to the platform.

I hate this, vendor lock in has no place in PC. Either by Nvidia GameWorks or VR technology.
 

anothertech

Member
Well, that just gave their competitors (rift, psvr) a goal date to beat. If they all launch with generally even prices, consumers will throw their money at the first to the finish line.

Exciting times,
 

spekkeh

Banned
Shame. I had quite a bit of budget to spend before the end of the year on Vives and Rifts, and then they both postpone it till after when the books are closed. I can imagine something similar for a lot of US institutions too.
 
I want Vive to be successful, but it feels they are coming too late to the market when Oculus is trying everything to lock in vendors to the platform.

I hate this, vendor lock in has no place in PC. Either by Nvidia GameWorks or VR technology.
Oculus isn't really trying to lock as many vendors as possible onto their platform, but they are acting as both game developers and publishers to try to get as much VR content available as they can for launch. If Oculus themselves pays for a game's development then of course it's going to be exclusive; those games likely wouldn't even exist without Oculus paying for their development (or developing the game itself, like with their Minecraft VR port or Netflix VR). And they've said they'd be fine with people modding the games to work on other platforms too.
 
what kind of pc and room would you need for this?
Well, here's an example - Elite:Dangerous' VR minimum system requirements include:

Intel Core i7-3770K Quad Core CPU or better / AMD FX 4350 Quad Core CPU or better
Memory 16 GB RAM
Graphics Nvidia GTX 980 with 4GB of RAM
 

UrbanRats

Member
Well, here's an example - Elite:Dangerous' VR minimum system requirements include:

Intel Core i7-3770K Quad Core CPU or better / AMD FX 4350 Quad Core CPU or better
Memory 16 GB RAM
Graphics Nvidia GTX 980 with 4GB of RAM

Damn, i need to beef up my PC.
If anything, it's better to wait Nvidia's next cards, in my opinion.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Having played this, I am incredibly sad that I won't have a PC good enough to use this with. Or a spare padded room.

Then the delay is a blessing to you, as it gives you more time to wait for the pc upgrade parts to drop in price, and for you to save up money for them.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Well, here's an example - Elite:Dangerous' VR minimum system requirements include:

Intel Core i7-3770K Quad Core CPU or better / AMD FX 4350 Quad Core CPU or better
Memory 16 GB RAM
Graphics Nvidia GTX 980 with 4GB of RAM

Yeah, I think i'm taking a wait-and-see approach to VR on PC for a bit. I'm due for an upgrade but at this point I would be dropping more than a grand on upgrading my PC.
And even then it would barely reach minimum specs for VR and it doesn't even take the price of the headset into account.
 
Can you launch Oculus demos with the Vive? It'd be awful if you couldn't at least play the dozens of apps already available at launch.

Expecting the Rift either March or June, PSVR is probably September.
 

duppolo

Member
Well, here's an example - Elite:Dangerous' VR minimum system requirements include:

Intel Core i7-3770K Quad Core CPU or better / AMD FX 4350 Quad Core CPU or better
Memory 16 GB RAM
Graphics Nvidia GTX 980 with 4GB of RAM

those are MINIMUM requirements? i bought a 970 2 days ago :/
 
I agree that there's no way that's factual, insider knowledge, but it does probably get a few things right based purely on educated guesses. HTC is in a very vulnerable place as a company and can't afford to sell at-cost like Oculus can. I hope the Rift is priced extremely aggressively, forcing HTC to make a big move to appear the better value. Based on the facts we have now, I believe the Vive is the better hardware, but I'll go Oculus if there's reasonable doubts about the post-launch support of HTC's product.

Its not better, its more advanced hardware than others capable of room scale tracking which has its advantages and disadvantages too.

This is the summary:

Here's my quick hardware summary:

HTC Vive: resolution 1080x1200 per eye, 90hz screen refresh. Comes with a pair of wireless 3D motion controllers (for virtual hands), its specialty is standing and physically walking around in your room while you experience virtual environments (which gives the ultimate "you are there" experience), though it can of course be used sitting down or standing without moving. Uses a pair of wireless "lighthouses", lasers that (basically) triangulate the positions of the headset and controllers. Slightly more accurate positioning than Oculus or PSVR. Costs "a premium price for the premium VR experience", release April 2016

Oculus Rift: resolution 1080x1200 per eye, 90hz screen refresh. Comes with standard wireless XBox One controller, it's more based around sitting/standing in one place while looking around (though it can detect walking in a small area, larger areas with a second camera). "Oculus Touch" 3D motion controllers are coming Q2 2016. Uses a small camera to track the position of the headset and Oculus Touch. Costs "more than $350", sold for cost, no profit from hardware, release Q1 2016

Sony PSVR: resolution 960x1080 per eye, refresh capable of 60hz, 90hz, 120hz (game chooses refresh). Works with normal wireless PS4 controllers and wireless PS Move 3D motion controllers (unknown if Move will be packed with it). Like Oculus, PSVR is more for sitting/standing than moving around. Uses PlayStation Eye camera to track movement of the headset and controllers. Will be priced "similar to new gaming platforms", but "will be as low-priced as possible", release "first half" 2016
 
Further away than I expected. But considering GTX 980Ti's are considered *MINIMUM* performance parts...I suppose there really is no rush. The audience with a system powerful enough to drive these VR headsets to satisfactory levels are among the 0.0005%. Even among enthusiast gamers we'd be talking about a fraction of a fraction. The people who have spent $1200+ on just GPUs are the only real candidates.
 

doomquake

Member
Will believe it when I see it.. Also its gonna flop hard with public so it has to be aligned only for hardcore people with cash and room to spare. Good luck HTC
 

Alexlf

Member
Further away than I expected. But considering GTX 980Ti's are considered *MINIMUM* performance parts...I suppose there really is no rush. The audience with a system powerful enough to drive these VR headsets to satisfactory levels are among the 0.0005%. Even among enthusiast gamers we'd be talking about a fraction of a fraction. The people who have spent $1200+ on just GPUs are the only real candidates.

By the time the VR headsets are out in any appreciable quantities the next gen of graphics cards will have rolled around making entry a lot more feasible as old cards drop in price/newer, lower cost cards are available.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
By the time the VR headsets are out in any appreciable quantities the next gen of graphics cards will have rolled around making entry a lot more feasible as old cards drop in price/newer, lower cost cards are available.

And newer, modern VR game releases will require a higher baseline of specs just as quickly. It's an ever-moving train, you just got to hop on somewhere.

And I think in terms of VR, people are going to have to keep on the cutting-edge more than ever because developers aren't likely to get less ambitious in terms of VR anytime soon.
 

jmga

Member
And newer, modern VR game releases will require a higher baseline of specs just as quickly. It's an ever-moving train, you just got to hop on somewhere.

And I think in terms of VR, people are going to have to keep on the cutting-edge more than ever because developers aren't likely to get less ambitious in terms of VR anytime soon.

They shouldn't, you don't sell VR games with graphics, you sell them with presence.
 
Further away than I expected. But considering GTX 980Ti's are considered *MINIMUM* performance parts...I suppose there really is no rush. The audience with a system powerful enough to drive these VR headsets to satisfactory levels are among the 0.0005%. Even among enthusiast gamers we'd be talking about a fraction of a fraction. The people who have spent $1200+ on just GPUs are the only real candidates.

That's the minimum of one game.

The Oculus Rift general recommended specs are a 970.
The recommended PC specification is an NVIDIA GTX 970 or AMD 290, Intel i5-4590, and 8GB RAM. This configuration will be held for the lifetime of the Rift and should drop in price over time.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
They shouldn't, you don't sell VR games with graphics, you sell them with presence.

Presence alone doesn't require a GTX980 and i7-3770K for minimum specs, but the more prominent PC-VR titles will keep pushing the boundaries I think.
I mean, the positive PSVR reception from people who've tried it isn't all that discernible from the positive praise that the HTC Vive or OR have gotten.
They all do presence rather well, and one is achieving it with rather gimped hardware in comparison.

Edit: I just read the above post about the baseline specs for OR and how they aim to keep supporting this configuration. That's promising.
 

Wreav

Banned
As a consumer, I have zero confidence in HTC at this point. No way am I buying a gen 1 VR product from them.
 

That "speculation and misinformation" one is missing one thing: right after that guy mentioned December 8, HTC denied that anything was going to happen on December 8, and said the employee was not speaking for the company. So people who were expecting something to go down on December 8 were truly misinformed.
 

Bookoo

Member
That "speculation and misinformation" one is missing one thing: right after that guy mentioned December 8, HTC denied that anything was going to happen on December 8, and said the employee was not speaking for the company. So people who were expecting something to go down on December 8 were truly misinformed.

“I would not consider this information confirmed or from HTC official channels.”

The statement they gave was pretty non-committal about the whole situation. They should have been much more upfront about it. They also have quotes a few months back where they said they were still releasing some units in 2015. Even though they were being super vague about what and how many there would actually be.
 
Thanks for the great summary. Just what I was looking for.

So given that PSVRs resolution is half of the competition. I'm not hearing a lot of folks complaining about it when they try the demos. I know the eye more sensitive to vertical resolution. Interesting.
The good news is the PC hardware requirements for a PC modded PSVR will be a lot lower then the other two.

PSVR technically has the highest resolution because it has all the subpixels.
 
PSVR technically has the highest resolution because it has all the subpixels.

As does Vive and probably Oculus Rift. Only the Oculus Rift DK2 dev kit used a pentile display, there's been no hints that the consumer version will as well - all we know is it's a completely different display than DK2.

Also, you should math better :)
 

Man

Member
Shuhei Yoshida tweeted a slightly mysterious thought when this was announced:

Shuhei Yoshida ‏@yosp 12h12 hours ago
(´-`).。oO(...April...)

Collision with PSVR?
 

Arkanius

Member
As does Vive and probably Oculus Rift. Only the Oculus Rift DK2 dev kit used a pentile display, there's been no hints that the consumer version will as well - all we know is it's a completely different display than DK2.

Also, you should math better :)

Every AMOLED screen from Samsung has those weird diamond pixel arrangements.
 
Shuhei Yoshida tweeted a slightly mysterious thought when this was announced:

Shuhei Yoshida ‏@yosp 12h12 hours ago
(´-`).。oO(...April...)

Collision with PSVR?
I got the impression he was just sad about having to wait so long to buy one.
 
Every AMOLED screen from Samsung has those weird diamond pixel arrangements.

Samsung also makes what they call "Super AMOLED Plus" which uses an RGBRGB pattern, which means every pixel is three full subpixels. They use that on larger displays, since it makes the pixels larger. Also, it isn't known if Oculus is using an AMOLED display in the consumer Rift, they haven't said anything about their display technology (having said that, it's likely to be some sort of OLED since that gives them the low-persistence they love).
 

kaizoku

I'm not as deluded as I make myself out to be
Tried a vive today, portal demo and omg I was blown away as was anyone else who tried it.

We've all tried oculus demos and love playing with cardboard etc and as much as I am all aboard the VR bandwagon none of the demos felt like anything but novelties with potential.

Vive felt like VR had arrived.

The start was similar, ok great I'm in an environment and it looks higher res and has depth and I can look around and stuff - cool. Then my friend holds up the controllers in the air and I just reached out and grabbed them and it was like hah sweet!

Then I walked around and it was like well god damn this is amazing. I looked around, I turned around. I walked over to some drawers and pulled them out as if I was in the room. A precipice appeared at one point and I crept up to it nervously and leant my body over to look over it and felt the hairs on my neck prickle.

A robot appeared and I walked up to it and tapped it on the head, I could walk around it and lean in to see every detail and I even tried to give it a hug.

I'm not up to date with oculus rift or other VR options and how good they are now, but no matter which bandwagon you're on or which faction you want to "win" - THIS is what VR is all about and we should all hope that experiences like this are just the beginning. The demo was brief and the tech has limitations in space etc but the tech is ready for a fully fledged game and I hope it develops further. If oculus or whoever haven't got walking around nailed yet, I pray they have it in progress cos you're not really in the world until you can actually traverse it.

Walking around with a controller and only moving your head just isn't the same. It will probably form the majority of VR experiences and enhance some specific game types or introduce new genres but all VR fans should be aiming for what I experienced today!

So good
 

Seiru

Banned
Tried a vive today, portal demo and omg I was blown away as was anyone else who tried it.

We've all tried oculus demos and love playing with cardboard etc and as much as I am all aboard the VR bandwagon none of the demos felt like anything but novelties with potential.

Vive felt like VR had arrived.

The start was similar, ok great I'm in an environment and it looks higher res and has depth and I can look around and stuff - cool. Then my friend holds up the controllers in the air and I just reached out and grabbed them and it was like hah sweet!

Then I walked around and it was like well god damn this is amazing. I looked around, I turned around. I walked over to some drawers and pulled them out as if I was in the room. A precipice appeared at one point and I crept up to it nervously and leant my body over to look over it and felt the hairs on my neck prickle.

A robot appeared and I walked up to it and tapped it on the head, I could walk around it and lean in to see every detail and I even tried to give it a hug.

I'm not up to date with oculus rift or other VR options and how good they are now, but no matter which bandwagon you're on or which faction you want to "win" - THIS is what VR is all about and we should all hope that experiences like this are just the beginning. The demo was brief and the tech has limitations in space etc but the tech is ready for a fully fledged game and I hope it develops further. If oculus or whoever haven't got walking around nailed yet, I pray they have it in progress cos you're not really in the world until you can actually traverse it.

Walking around with a controller and only moving your head just isn't the same. It will probably form the majority of VR experiences and enhance some specific game types or introduce new genres but all VR fans should be aiming for what I experienced today!

So good

Oculus definitely has standing experiences being worked on, ready for the first half of 2016 with the launch of their Touch controllers. Reactions towards their Touch demos are similar to what you wrote above.

I think what people will come to learn is that software and design is probably more important than hardware when it comes to really satisfying VR experiences.
 
Oculus definitely has standing experiences being worked on, ready for the first half of 2016 with the launch of their Touch controllers. Reactions towards their Touch demos are similar to what you wrote above.

I think what people will come to learn is that software and design is probably more important than hardware when it comes to really satisfying VR experiences.

Yeah, you can already stand and walk around with a normal Oculus DK2 - it's not a huge area, but enough for some basic tasks. It's really more about software being designed for that.
 

YuShtink

Member
Tried a vive today, portal demo and omg I was blown away as was anyone else who tried it.

We've all tried oculus demos and love playing with cardboard etc and as much as I am all aboard the VR bandwagon none of the demos felt like anything but novelties with potential.

Vive felt like VR had arrived.

The start was similar, ok great I'm in an environment and it looks higher res and has depth and I can look around and stuff - cool. Then my friend holds up the controllers in the air and I just reached out and grabbed them and it was like hah sweet!

Then I walked around and it was like well god damn this is amazing. I looked around, I turned around. I walked over to some drawers and pulled them out as if I was in the room. A precipice appeared at one point and I crept up to it nervously and leant my body over to look over it and felt the hairs on my neck prickle.

A robot appeared and I walked up to it and tapped it on the head, I could walk around it and lean in to see every detail and I even tried to give it a hug.

I'm not up to date with oculus rift or other VR options and how good they are now, but no matter which bandwagon you're on or which faction you want to "win" - THIS is what VR is all about and we should all hope that experiences like this are just the beginning. The demo was brief and the tech has limitations in space etc but the tech is ready for a fully fledged game and I hope it develops further. If oculus or whoever haven't got walking around nailed yet, I pray they have it in progress cos you're not really in the world until you can actually traverse it.

Walking around with a controller and only moving your head just isn't the same. It will probably form the majority of VR experiences and enhance some specific game types or introduce new genres but all VR fans should be aiming for what I experienced today!

So good

Oculus hasn't been pushing the room scale stuff because they don't think there is enough of a fanbase at this point willing or able to rig up an entire room for VR. It is entirely possible to emulate the Vive's room scale tracking with Oculus's system but you'd prob need to have 3 or 4 cameras for it to have the same range as Lighthouse with 2 beacons and no occlusion issues. Right now they are developing sitting and standing experiences using 2 side by side cameras. This gives you about a 10x10 space to move around like the Vive but tracking of the controllers isn't 100% accurate if you turn completely away from the 2 cameras. The headset can be tracked in full 360 but not the touch controllers at the moment. Room scale VR is super cool but also brings a lot of other issues to the table. That being said I've got my room set aside for it, so I say bring it on.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Well, here's an example - Elite:Dangerous' VR minimum system requirements include:

Intel Core i7-3770K Quad Core CPU or better / AMD FX 4350 Quad Core CPU or better
Memory 16 GB RAM
Graphics Nvidia GTX 980 with 4GB of RAM

Fucking crazy specs. :(

PSVR it is then.
 
When the tech is more advanced and can have wire free usability, the possibilities are endless.
I'm hoping for a VR theme park of sorts, where for a set fee you experience different zones! For example a Halloween setup in a full scale haunted house where you can literally walk around/be chased through totally in VR.
Or something like EvOLVE in a football sized stadium with light obstacles to maneuver around/use for cover!
A team shooter in a paintball sized area set in a far off planet or in space having a futuristic lazer battle. Hell even current attractions like Disney or Universal studios could completely change after the advent of VR!
This is what excites me the most, and is also why I get upset with every delay.
The future is so exciting.
 

spicy cho

Member
I wonder if they'll just sell the headset without the beacon laser tracking stuff. I hope so because I'm not interested in the empty room with a pc walking around part.
 
I wonder if they'll just sell the headset without the beacon laser tracking stuff. I hope so because I'm not interested in the empty room with a pc walking around part.
Those laser "lighthouses" are how the Vive tracks head and controller movement; you need them for the device to function, same as Oculus Rift needs a camera in front of you. You might be able to get away with just one of them, though, if you don't need to move in a large area.
 
Fucking crazy specs. :(

PSVR it is then.

That's for Elite Dangerous, a game that definitely was built with VR in mind but its scope and scale was not compromised in anyway to accommodate low specs in VR. This is minimum for a good experience, meaning significantly greater than 60 fps consistent framerate. Real, full games, not compromised show pieces are going to require serious hardware for a good experience.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Oculus hasn't been pushing the room scale stuff because they don't think there is enough of a fanbase at this point willing or able to rig up an entire room for VR. It is entirely possible to emulate the Vive's room scale tracking with Oculus's system but you'd prob need to have 3 or 4 cameras for it to have the same range as Lighthouse with 2 beacons and no occlusion issues. Right now they are developing sitting and standing experiences using 2 side by side cameras. This gives you about a 10x10 space to move around like the Vive but tracking of the controllers isn't 100% accurate if you turn completely away from the 2 cameras. The headset can be tracked in full 360 but not the touch controllers at the moment. Room scale VR is super cool but also brings a lot of other issues to the table. That being said I've got my room set aside for it, so I say bring it on.

I think its not a priority, because they want to get the foundation right before they expand towards room scale stuffs, and to make the headset affordable for mass market purpose.
 
I think its not a priority, because they want to get the foundation right before they expand towards room scale stuffs, and to make the headset affordable for mass market purpose.

Its true, we surely going to see some kind of add-on for PS VR (with PS5) and Oculus in future to extend the tracking if the VR is successful in next 2 years. Its really strange that HTC (who has financial troubles) focusing on a technology (full room scale tracking) which is not good for mass market appeal because its not cheap and will require premium price (+ entire room). VR developers also need user base to sell their games otherwise they are not gonna make games for HTC Vive.
 

Kusagari

Member
99% of people will not be able to find the room to take advantage of Vive's full scale room tracking.

I'm baffled that HTC has focused so much on something so niche.
 
There may be some interesting experiences with the room-scale VR stuff, but I'm still most interested in cockpit-style games like Elite. Any applications beyond that is just gravy for me.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Vive will struggle without a headstart simply because so few know of it, and Valve are unwilling to enter the exclusives and marketing arena like the competition. Price will also likely be higher. Steam users seem like the most primary target. Getting others involved doesn't seem likely.

Well, here's an example - Elite:Dangerous' VR minimum system requirements include:

Intel Core i7-3770K Quad Core CPU or better / AMD FX 4350 Quad Core CPU or better
Memory 16 GB RAM
Graphics Nvidia GTX 980 with 4GB of RAM

Fucking crazy specs. :(

That is just one game rather than every game. Part of the draw of PC VR is the ability to engage in that high end that will eventually become more accessible and affordable over 2 or 3 years.

PSVR it is then.

Chances are you are either not going to see Elite Dangerous on PSVR or it is going to have a large drop in fidelity to do so

99% of people will not be able to find the room to take advantage of Vive's full scale room tracking.

I'm baffled that HTC has focused so much on something so niche.

There is no such thing as a "full scale room" size for tracking. Rooms can be practically any size from sitting to a room of 15ft x 15ft or even extended far beyond that, but the games scale to accommodate you and your room, and you don't need that massive size to be able to lean or even walk a few steps, which is enough to make a significant difference. Even for the people that only have a space to do a few steps or just sit, but are playing a game with long traversals, there a different systems to accommodate that such as blink in The Gallery. Here is a simple example of room sizes - https://youtu.be/NixHENChoQ4
 
I remember when they said it would release this year and a bunch of people on GAF were like "Vive wins by default". It's like, dude, there's no software for it. There probably won't be that many VR killer apps next year either, it's gonna be a slow grow in that department. Developers need to see that people are willing to buy this shit before they throw all their chips in and make incredible VR games. I'm hopeful though.

99% of people will not be able to find the room to take advantage of Vive's full scale room tracking.

I'm baffled that HTC has focused so much on something so niche.

This too. Right now VR needs to be focused on sitting/standing with combined arm tracking/standard joystick and button control mechanics.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
There is no such thing as a "full scale room" size for tracking. Rooms can be practically any size from sitting to a room of 15ft x 15ft or even extended far beyond that, but the games scale to accommodate you and your room, and you don't need that massive size to be able to lean or even walk a few steps, which is enough to make a significant difference. Even for the people that only have a space to do a few steps or just sit, but are playing a game with long traversals, there a different systems to accommodate that such as blink in The Gallery. Here is a simple example of room sizes - https://youtu.be/NixHENChoQ4

It all adds to complications in development. I just hope devs don't focus too much on idealised room scale movement because most people are likely to be playing solo and won't even want to stand - and certainly won't have space for walking around. That risks becoming a niche of a niche



Thanks for the great summary. Just what I was looking for.

So given that PSVRs resolution is half of the competition. I'm not hearing a lot of folks complaining about it when they try the demos. I know the eye more sensitive to vertical resolution. Interesting.
The good news is the PC hardware requirements for a PC modded PSVR will be a lot lower then the other two.

It's not half the res. 1080x1200 per eye is about 2.5m pixels. 1920x1080 is 2.07m. So about 25% more pixels on OR and Vive
 
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