Nikodemos
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Huff'Po: Brexit White Paper Basically Reveals The Reason For Leaving The EU Isnt Tru
- Thread starter GrizzleBoy
- Start date
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Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I'm shocked.
I'm not shocked.
I'm not shocked.
Nicktendo86
Member
I mean this is nonsense really, parliament has *technically* remained sovereign as it could at any time decide to leave the EU and powers it chose to hand over would be returned. The referendum was a decision whether or not to do that.
The white paper is rubbish though, I believe there are time stamps on it showing some poor sod was drawing up bar graphs at 4am of tue day of publication.
Edit: breaking news - the government has won legal challenge that it had to give EEA article 127 notice to leave the single market. Excellent.
The white paper is rubbish though, I believe there are time stamps on it showing some poor sod was drawing up bar graphs at 4am of tue day of publication.
Edit: breaking news - the government has won legal challenge that it had to give EEA article 127 notice to leave the single market. Excellent.
But "the people have spoken" and "the will of the people" is total bollocks. Leave won by a very narrow margin. 48.1% voted remain. If the referendum had been held a week earlier or a week later the result could easily have swung the other way.
At your edit. Fuck. Liars all of them, but the people who voted to leave are too stupid to admit they were wrong.
Your analogy doesn't work because you didn't have the option to agree to the laws preventing you to shoot someone.
You opt into international agreement (unless you happen to lose a war and do so down the barrel of a gun), and willingly accept the threat of losing the benefit of the agreement if you decide to exercise your sovereign power in ways which contravene the agreement you signed up to.
It's an issue of exercising sovereignty it has never been an issue of loss or gain of sovereignty (except maybe the A50 court case ironically enough). Parliament gains no more power than it had before and no less.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Don't you worry, the disabled aren't going anywhere, we can be sure to blame them for all our ills still.
fabricated backlash
Member
Ah so parliament got it's pwecious fweelings hurt.
Nationalistic isolationist cunts.
Nationalistic isolationist cunts.
CyclopsRock
Member
I think this is irrelevant abstraction though, for the reason I stated: Even seen through this lens, the referendum result can therefore be interpreted as the British people exerting their sovereignty to going back to controlling all the things that were outsourced to the EU. Either way, it's about whether those decisions are made in the EU or by the UK Parliament, even if those decisions made by the EU are done with the UK Parliament's thumbs up .
31GhostsIV
Banned
I don't think I can take much more of the current state of the world. Are we really so fortunate in the western world that we're going to tear everything down out of boredom? That seems to be the case. Farage, Trump.. their presented views of the world we live in are dystopian, yet millions embrace the bleak fantasy. I guess living in comfort is overrated, so let's cause some unnecessary international problems?
This entire EU situation is such a colossally stupid waste of time, with an outcome based entirely on lies. (Hey, UK - pro tip. I've been around the block a few times, and this is something i've picked up - if your views match Nigel Farage, Rupert Murdoch, Katie Hopkins and gormless shitwhistle Michael Gove, then they're wrong).
Meanwhile, our Government - a disgusting Tory government even by their standards that's spent over six years dismantling the country in the name of ideologically driven austerity - has no credible opposition despite it being completely clear they have absolutely no fucking clue what they are doing with Brexit - a clusterfuck of incredible magnitude that their last leader caused. Austerity, hard Brexit (whatever that means) and China-level surveillance - this is what they represent and they deserve to be dragged over the coals for it. Meanwhile, unelected-by-her-party, surveillance-happy and guided-by-God Daily Mail pin-up Theresa May gets great poll numbers and the embarrassingly impotent Jeremy Corbyn is still in charge of Labour because.. reasons, I guess? Good grief UK, please wake up.
Want to 'free' our country, UK? Then get rid of the ideologues in government and boycott our over-saturation of right-wing press and media. Stop listening to the populist blowhards who tell you immergrunts are terkin yer jerbs and your country is in ruins. Realise that no amount of EU-leaving will hand you a repeat of that 1966 world cup win. Poor, struggling and on benefits? Then please understand that without the EU, the Tories will only attack you even more because there's no pesky EU courts to keep them in line. Oh.. human rights will be next on the agenda, won't they? Slow clap.
Too long didn't read - Brexit based on lies? No shit.
I guess I needed to get that out of my system, sorry Gaffers. Rant over, i'll grab my coat.
This entire EU situation is such a colossally stupid waste of time, with an outcome based entirely on lies. (Hey, UK - pro tip. I've been around the block a few times, and this is something i've picked up - if your views match Nigel Farage, Rupert Murdoch, Katie Hopkins and gormless shitwhistle Michael Gove, then they're wrong).
Meanwhile, our Government - a disgusting Tory government even by their standards that's spent over six years dismantling the country in the name of ideologically driven austerity - has no credible opposition despite it being completely clear they have absolutely no fucking clue what they are doing with Brexit - a clusterfuck of incredible magnitude that their last leader caused. Austerity, hard Brexit (whatever that means) and China-level surveillance - this is what they represent and they deserve to be dragged over the coals for it. Meanwhile, unelected-by-her-party, surveillance-happy and guided-by-God Daily Mail pin-up Theresa May gets great poll numbers and the embarrassingly impotent Jeremy Corbyn is still in charge of Labour because.. reasons, I guess? Good grief UK, please wake up.
Want to 'free' our country, UK? Then get rid of the ideologues in government and boycott our over-saturation of right-wing press and media. Stop listening to the populist blowhards who tell you immergrunts are terkin yer jerbs and your country is in ruins. Realise that no amount of EU-leaving will hand you a repeat of that 1966 world cup win. Poor, struggling and on benefits? Then please understand that without the EU, the Tories will only attack you even more because there's no pesky EU courts to keep them in line. Oh.. human rights will be next on the agenda, won't they? Slow clap.
Too long didn't read - Brexit based on lies? No shit.
I guess I needed to get that out of my system, sorry Gaffers. Rant over, i'll grab my coat.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
It blows my mind how polititians could blatantly lie to the people, when such an important decision was to be made. How isnt this illegal ? How is no one going to jail ?
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Makes the "tired of these elites running everything and screwing us over" argument sound even more like bullshit.
Especially when Nigel Farage, ex banker or whatever, spent what 30 years fighting against the EU, successfully gets us out of the EU, then abandons ship and starts his new career in radio and television presenting on the back of his "win", while leaving us all fucked with no direction.
31GhostsIV
Banned
He's off to the states to tongue Trump's arse, isn't he? No shocker for the swathes of us who could see straight through him, of course.
travisbickle
Member
Everyone should have known it was bullshit when Cameron went to Brussels. He didn't ask to "get back control of our borders" because we already had that, he asked to remove in-work tax credits for EU employees and remove limitations for doctors hours (as in Jeremy Cunt's fight with junior doctors).
Schrödinger's Migrant.
Simon Belmont
Banned
But they didn't. There's only one poll that matters.
Camp Freddie
Member
I think that the HuffPo is being a little disingenuous here.
The point being made in the white paper is that parliament is technically sovereign, but in practice it is merely a rubber stamp for laws made elsewhere.
Parliamentary scrutiny of EU laws and regulations tends to be very limited, as the rest of the paragraph spells out.
I hate the tendency of journalists to soundbite a relatively clear and short piece of text/questioning, remove the context and then write a long article about the soundbite. How about just reading the thing in context. It's literally just two more sentences.
The white paper simply uses the veracular "doesn't feel like it", rather than using de jure/de facto or some other more highfalutin description.
Parliament is sovereign, but when most people talk about sovereignty they simply mean, "where are laws are made". Most Brexiters don't give a shit who puts the final rubber stamp on a law, they care about who 'really' wrote it.
Of course, it's all bullshit since the "unelected EU commissioners" that Brexiteers moan about are no less democratically accountable than the civil service mandarins that actually write UK law and the lords that approve/ammend it.
In truth, our own MEPs, council members and commissioners provide plenty of scrutiny over EU law and the power to amend or veto most of the bits we don't like. We are one of the 'big 3' and not much happens without our consent. Ironically, it is our comission influence that best serves British interests, since our parliamentary influence is full of UKIP twats and the tories joined the right-wing crazy EU super-party.
And any future trade agreement will also involve foreigners setting regulations that we need to comply with - just like the EU, which is essentially just a really fucking good trade agreement.
The point being made in the white paper is that parliament is technically sovereign, but in practice it is merely a rubber stamp for laws made elsewhere.
Parliamentary scrutiny of EU laws and regulations tends to be very limited, as the rest of the paragraph spells out.
I hate the tendency of journalists to soundbite a relatively clear and short piece of text/questioning, remove the context and then write a long article about the soundbite. How about just reading the thing in context. It's literally just two more sentences.
The white paper simply uses the veracular "doesn't feel like it", rather than using de jure/de facto or some other more highfalutin description.
Parliament is sovereign, but when most people talk about sovereignty they simply mean, "where are laws are made". Most Brexiters don't give a shit who puts the final rubber stamp on a law, they care about who 'really' wrote it.
Of course, it's all bullshit since the "unelected EU commissioners" that Brexiteers moan about are no less democratically accountable than the civil service mandarins that actually write UK law and the lords that approve/ammend it.
In truth, our own MEPs, council members and commissioners provide plenty of scrutiny over EU law and the power to amend or veto most of the bits we don't like. We are one of the 'big 3' and not much happens without our consent. Ironically, it is our comission influence that best serves British interests, since our parliamentary influence is full of UKIP twats and the tories joined the right-wing crazy EU super-party.
And any future trade agreement will also involve foreigners setting regulations that we need to comply with - just like the EU, which is essentially just a really fucking good trade agreement.
Because the Britts kept playing chicken with the Germans, and this time the Germans refused to steer out of the way. So they either have to stick to their guns and claim that they did, or loose face and say "Sorry we called you NAZIs all the time, it wasn't true, it was unfair and we just did it to get political gain and easy scapegoats."
.Yeah... that's not going to happen
.VanquishUK
Member
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Feelings over facts, it's the new world order.
autumnleaf
Member
Well obviously it was never about sovereignty. The white paper can't exactly say the little England racists want to kick out all the muslims and Polish.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Ugh, until Brexit I never really believed that whole quote about democracy, "The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter", or however it goes.
It's painfully accurate.
I've heard worse reasons tbh
The thing is how can you change the current sentiment in this country when you have the Daily Mail and ppl like Farage and Katie Hopkins spreading bullshit on a national scale? How do you as an individual counter that? You hit them with "facts" and they think you're the liar because your information contradicts the Mail or what Farage says.
In my opinion, such people want to believe lies because it reinforces what they already feel inside. I don't think it's a case of "oh these people just need to hear a bunch of facts and they'll change their minds". They want to believe lies because it reinforces what they already think. They've wanted to blame immigrants and the EU for a while and now they've had the opportunity to do so via the referendum. You can't really change ppl like that.
In my opinion, such people want to believe lies because it reinforces what they already feel inside. I don't think it's a case of "oh these people just need to hear a bunch of facts and they'll change their minds". They want to believe lies because it reinforces what they already think. They've wanted to blame immigrants and the EU for a while and now they've had the opportunity to do so via the referendum. You can't really change ppl like that.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
This will be how the 21st century is remembered in the history books.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Is that "he's lying to you" gif real? When did it happen?
Last week, it is real, it's a Labour MEP holding up the sign, he got a telling off for his troubles. Still probably the biggest achievement of Labour MEPs in the last 20 years.
StrategyFan
Member
yeah. let's not make the politicians feel bad.
instructions to news media: sensationalize every accomplishment and turn it into a party
the trains ran on time? hand out ribbons to everyone
renewed some obvious legislation in an obvious way? have a parade
the weather was pleasant? launch some fireworks
instructions to news media: sensationalize every accomplishment and turn it into a party
the trains ran on time? hand out ribbons to everyone
renewed some obvious legislation in an obvious way? have a parade
the weather was pleasant? launch some fireworks
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