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I’d take loot crates over dlc, season passes, online passes and split userbases

As the Gaming business evolves monitisatuon methods change.

It was once DLC, online passes, then season passes and now it’s moving to loot boxes.

Honestly I would take loot boxes all day over the past monitisatuon experiments.
Calving a game up and paying for pieces seems to becoming a relic as games are becoming platforms we longer tails, free content for everyone to extend the game and playerbases kept together.

Loot boxes / crates News seems to becoming click bait outrage at the moment but honestly games like Smite, Halo 5, Rainbow Six Seige, Overwatch, Rocket League, Warframe, Dota 2 etc. have kept me playing longer and longer due to the playerbase supporting the platform and free content extending there lives.

The problem with your premise here OP, is that it isn't one (lootboxes) or the other (DLC, Season Passes and paid expansions).

What you're calling "past monetization methods" are still alive and kicking today, and as the industry continues down this path of implementing more and more methods for asking gamers for handouts during gameplay, you'll only start to see a further compounding of all these methods together, piled on top of each other, in future games.

Look at Destiny 2 for example. Game has lootboxes, season pass and paid DLC expansions on the way. It's GaaS and its the new hotness now (according to publishers).
 

Van Bur3n

Member
Halo 3 used to just release the map packs for free after some time. So they made money off the people who wanted new maps right away but also prevented the player base from being too split. Thought that was a pretty cool way to handle it.

I'm pretty sure they only made the Heroic map pack free. The rest of them you had to pay for until ODST launched and all of the maps were free with that game, which was two years after Halo 3's release.
 
DLC packs are fine in singleplayer games, but like said, they split the userbase in multiplayer games, which loot boxes don't. The alternative for loot boxes is paid costume/weapon DLCs. That would result in something like Dead or Alive 5: Last Round with $1000+ of DLC costumes. Developers/publishers want to make money, and I think a list of 50+ DLC costumes is a lot more overwhelming for potential buyers than a loot crate system with 50+ costumes/weapons in it. Plus the casino effect of wanting to try once more.

Personally, I don't play much multiplayer games at all, so I've never bothered to buy a loot box anyway.
 

KillLaCam

Banned
Depends on the type of game. Like in a mp shooter I'd rather have microtransactions (as long as they're not pay to win). But I want actually dlc in single player games
 

EpicBox

Member
Don't get me wrong, season passes and that other stuff are a complete rip off. But the presence of microtransactions actively hurts the gameplay experience.

And what good is free content if it's ruined by forced grinding?
 
I'd take a game that's finished when I buy it, but is that just totally off the table now?

That's hard to do with multiplayer games. DLC/loot boxes are not just a monetisation model, but also a form of player retention. Communities of multiplayer games without post-launch support die very fast. After launch, new content needs to be made, but that costs time and thus money. The alternative is charging more than you deliver, but that would create backlash as well. I doubt people would pay $80 upfront for every game they buy.
(The nice thing about loot crates is also that they don't lose value, while a $60 game can drop in price to $30 or $40 in a couple of months.)
 
I agree and I think the best example is R6 siege. I think it's true for multiplayer games. However, I rather have dlc in The Witcher 3.
 

ResoRai

Member
I agree, but it needs to stick to cosmetics or be sectioned off (and work well in that mode) like in Halo 5. Haven't bought multiplayer dlc, map packs, seasons passes, etc, in forever because the multiplayer games I mostly play are Overwatch, Siege, and Titanfall. Bf1 aswell, but I havent bought anything else. It's awesome knowing I can hop on anytime and have the latest content available without having to pay anything extra, everyone else will too, and I'm not limited to a certain section of the playerbase.

I had to worry about that all the time last gen when I played cod and battlefield.
I'd take a game that's finished when I buy it, but is that just totally off the table now?
Op is talking about Multiplayer games.
 

MutFox

Banned
A split userbase is the worst for online communities.
Though getting gameplay altering gear only through loot boxes is bad too.
It should be cosmetic stuff only.

Anything that splits community or affects gameplay is anti gamer
Especially when it's a full priced game.
 
I don't mind loot boxes or season passes if I am getting the base game untouched because the loot boxes are just cosmetic and the original game or vision is as is regardless. Season passes are fine if the content is meaty.

just don't give me actual content behind lootboxes because thats just exploitive.
 

hbkdx12

Member
I'm going to be really disappointed if South Park doesn't have some kind of interesting take/commentary on lootboxes in TFBW
 
Games like Halo 5, Gears 4, Loot boxes are perfectly fine for me. Gears 3 had an awesome season pass that was worth the money imo, but gone are the days that you get some dumb notification that someone in your party does don't have the proper DLC to play with you online. Yea SP games adopting the concept and giving the user boost and such are dumb and shouldn't be in those games. Exclusively speaking of MP games with cosmetic loot and character skins, Im all about it instead of shedding out another $20-$50 for map packs, new weapons, etc.
 

A.J.

Banned
Yeah, I way prefer that system.

If they ended up splitting the community that's because the map packs weren't seen as good enough value not because the idea itself is flawed.

I think when a new map is released the base game should be updated to always include the latest maps. That should help.

Yeah, but now instead of being able to buy the thing I want (Which are new maps) I can only buy roundabout lootbox stuff instead of the thing I want.
 

Griss

Member
Totally disagree with the OP.

With DLC, sure you don't get 'all' of the game. But what you do get is good. Or as could as it could have been.

With loot boxes the entire experience is compromised by the effort to sell you shit. The game itself is made worse by their presence. I can't stand that, and want no part of it. I'd rather pay $100 for a full experience (70 for the game, 30 for a season pass) than $60 for a game whose gameplay is molested by microtransactions.
 
This is such a boring way of rationalising exploitative business practices. Gamers are such an easy audience to condition because they're so concerned about the wellbeing of their industry that they'd let the most punitive money-making measures become pervasive as justification for the preservation of their favourite hobby.

Those that say DLC is fine if done right––developers/publishers are not interested in doing something right, they're interested in doing something in the way that makes them the most money. Using The Witcher 3 as an example is a mere exception that proves the rule––no matter how 'generous' their offering may be.

Moreover, a lot of the justification of these money-making 'innovations' is the idea that development costs have skyrocketed, essentially blaming the consumer for being conditioned to demand more for their money and technological advancements and seeking to pry more money from their hands. A lot of people explore the idea that developers just need to 'reign in' their development costs and ensure they make a focused game not one that seeks to set an industry standard––graphically, story-telling and so on. The market doesn't work like that and for those that think it is possible, in the event that this were to happen, mobile gaming is where everyone would move.

It's an interesting problem facing the industry and gamers and there'll only be one winner. In my opinion primarily because there's a unique onus on gamers to preserve their hobby.
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
People need to stop whining about loot crates.

You all want the highest fidelity visuals with the highest production values in history, free maps and DLC.

What? All that for the same fucking $60 you’ve been paying for 25 years? In a market so crowded with quality games that it’s becoming impossible to compete?

Yeah no, not gonna happen. Pay more for your games or understand that they need to make money somehow.
 

ResoRai

Member
Totally disagree with the OP.

With DLC, sure you don't get 'all' of the game. But what you do get is good. Or as could as it could have been.

With loot boxes the entire experience is compromised by the effort to sell you shit. The game itself is made worse by their presence. I can't stand that, and want no part of it. I'd rather pay $100 for a full experience (70 for the game, 30 for a season pass) than $60 for a game whose gameplay is molested by microtransactions.
It depends. I've only played half the games mentioned in the OP, but the ones I have played don't have any MT's that affect gameplay, and everyone gets all future content free.
The problem is they try to see how far they can take it, like with Battlefront 2. MT's like Overwatch, Siege, Titanfall, Halo 5 are fine I think.
 
People need to stop whining about loot crates.

You all want the highest fidelity visuals with the highest production values in history, free maps and DLC.

What? All that for the same fucking $60 you’ve been paying for 25 years? In a market so crowded with quality games that it’s bevoming impossible to compete?

Yeah no, not gonna happen. Pay more for your games or understand that they need to make money somehow.

It's astonishing how many people think that

1.Publishers need microtransactions to survive
2.Microtransactions need to be random loot created to exploit gambling addictions
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
Give me DLC and season passes back.



Won't somebody think of the poor multi-millionaire companies.

Todays devs are being punished for the sins of the .80s and 90s devs/publishers. Being charged $60-$80 for games that cost a few thousand dollars to make back then.
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
Full on stockholm. They don't even need PR since gamers are already defending them.

I’m not defending them. But I understand the realities of the business.

Games don’t make anywhere near as much money as they used to. Look around you. Dev studios are closing down left and right.
 
I'm not defending them. But I understand the realities of the business.

Games don't make anywhere near as much money as they used to. Look around you. Dev studios are closing down left and right.

You might go take a peak at the stock prices of EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Take Two, etc Spoiler alert: They're way richer than they've ever been.

As it turns out, selling tens of millions of copies of a $60 video game, with season passes and 30% digital sales rates makes for a really profitable company. No gambling exploitation necessary.
 

ResoRai

Member
People need to stop whining about loot crates.

You all want the highest fidelity visuals with the highest production values in history, free maps and DLC.

What? All that for the same fucking $60 you’ve been paying for 25 years? In a market so crowded with quality games that it’s becoming impossible to compete?

Yeah no, not gonna happen. Pay more for your games or understand that they need to make money somehow.
I understand the need for em, but I don't want MT's affecting gameplay. Don't care for Battlefront 2 because of it's implementation.
 
Full on stockholm. They don't even need PR since gamers are already defending them.
Some of us have had good experiences with loot boxes. Ever think of that? Selling new cases in csgo, tf2, H1Z1 and PUBG have made me well over 200 over the years. In Rocket League I trade new crates for keys. I made about 15 off the new update alone.

When it’s not p2w, allows trading and is a mp oriented game it could be great. I don’t see many defending the pay2win or awful implementations.
 
For many Multiplayer games, loot boxes took content that used to require payment, and made it free for those who can resist the temptation to buy them.

For many Single player games, loot boxes took content that used to be included in the price of the game, and made it cost money for those who still want whatever the gated content happens to be.

This is probably why there is a mixed reaction to loot boxes.
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
You might go take a peak at the stock prices of EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Take Two, etc Spoiler alert: They're way richer than they've ever been.

As it turns out, selling tens of millions of copies of a $60 video game, with season passes and 30% digital sales rates makes for a really profitable company. No gambling exploitation necessary.

Yes...because all games ever released ever sell tens of millions of copies right? Even the ones released by the AAA publishers and devs?
 
Yes...because all games ever released ever sell tens of millions of copies right? Even the ones released by the AAA publishers and devs?

For the companies i listed (Aka the one's pushing loot crates in their premium games the hardest) yes, they usually sell in the 8-25 million range.
 
Some of us have had good experiences with loot boxes. Ever think of that? Selling new cases in csgo, tf2, H1Z1 and PUBG have made me well over 200 over the years. In Rocket League I trade new crates for keys. I made about 15 off the new update alone.

When it’s not p2w, allows trading and is a mp oriented game it could be great. I don’t see many defending the pay2win or awful implementations.

So you only like their existence because you make money off of it
 

see5harp

Member
For cosmetic only for multiplayer games it’s awesome. If you gotta slow down progress in single player games to give a benefit to buying loot boxes then fuck your game.
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
The richest ones are the ones pushing it the hardest and people are defending them like they are a single man indie team.

It's incredible.

Again, not defending. If given the choice, I’d prefer none of it is there. Season passes, loot crates, cut content being sold as DLC etc etc.

But I also get that games are becoming more and more expensive to make and the competition fiercer than its ever been. On top of that, gamers, in particular gamers like the ones that frequent GAF, want the best visuals, the best production values, the longest games and all for the same price they’ve been paying for years.

Why do we expect more money to be spent on making the games while we pay the same or less than we used to?

Serious question. In Australia, we now pay at least $20 less a game than we used to in the 80s and 90s. Yet games are infinitely more expensive to make and maintain than they ever were. Again, it seems we want to punish today’s devs because devs back then were ripping us off.
 
Yeah, but now instead of being able to buy the thing I want (Which are new maps) I can only buy roundabout lootbox stuff instead of the thing I want.

Yup.

Also I'll never buy a loot box no matter how how much I like the game where as I'll happily buy DLC if the game deserves it.

Seems like a lot of people are happy to have others pay to support the game so they get updates for free. That doesn't sit well with me.
 

Tapejara

Member
I personally prefer alternative monetization methods to season passes/paid packs, but I don't see why lootboxes have to be that alternative method or why they have to be implemented in a way that can compromise gameplay balance.

While I've never been a fan of lootboxes, Battlefront II is the first game with lootbox implementation that I actually found egregious. Unlike Overwatch, DICE has made lootboxes contain the Battlefront equivalent of perks (Star Cards), small stat boosts that dole out advantages. By design, this is a system that will favour those with more money to spend, as more money means a greater opportunity to get better cards. Battlefront II's implementation may not completely pay-to-win just yet, but within a year's time we've already gone from boxes that were purely cosmetic (Overwatch) to boxes that affect gameplay in a competitive environment. That's really unsettling! Is it great that I won't have to worry about underpopulated DLC playlists in Battlefront II? Of course! But the further of encroaching of gameplay-altering lootboxes doesn't make me think it will have been worth it, at least in the long run. Once again, I realize that publishers are going to want to a way subsidize post-release content, and that it's probably unrealistic to expect years of free content, but it's worth keeping in mind that the last Battlefront game sold over 14 million copies within its first six months. It's not like EA is going to need to resort to lootboxes in BF2 to keep the lights on, especially when there are other ways to ensure a continuous stream of revenue post-release that aren't so blatantly anti-consumer.

For example, while Rainbow Six Siege recently introduced purely cosmetic boxes (Alpha Packs), all of the items found inside are also just the regular cosmetic items that can still be purchased through in-game currency (Renown). Unlike Overwatch, Renown isn't found in lootboxes, you earn it just from completing matches and in-game challenges, meaning you're not limited or tied to the lootbox economy just to customize your character. In addition, there are premium cosmetics that are purchased through one-time microtransactions (not RNG based), and a season pass implementation that only provides instant and early access to new characters while ensuring the playerbase is never fragmented due to everyone sharing the same map pool. In this case you could still take issue with the existence of lootboxes purely out of principal, but it's undeniable that Siege's methods of post-launch monetization are much less anti-consumer than that of Battlefront II or Call of Duty.

In the end I just don't see why the alternative to paid map packs has to be lootboxes, or why publishers can't find a way to implement lootboxes and/or other post-launch monetization methods that aren't potentially detrimental to the competitive game balance.
 

Kinyou

Member
I'm pretty sure they only made the Heroic map pack free. The rest of them you had to pay for until ODST launched and all of the maps were free with that game, which was two years after Halo 3's release.
The Legendary Map pack was also free two months after release, but you're right, they started to abandon this path during Halo 3 and it took quite a while until the two Mythic Map packs went free.

However, Halo 2 regularly made the map packs free 2 months after release.
 
Again, not defending. If given the choice, I'd prefer none of it is there. Season passes, loot crates, cut content being sold as DLC etc etc.

But I also get that games are becoming more and more expensive to make and the competition fiercer than its ever been. On top of that, gamers, in particular gamers like the ones that frequent GAF, want the best visuals, the best production values, the longest games and all for the same price they've been paying for years.

Why do we expect more money to be spent on making the games while we pay the same or less than we used to?

Serious question. In Australia, we now pay at least $20 less a game than we used to in the 80s and 90s. Yet games are infinitely more expensive to make and maintain than they ever were. Again, it seems we want to punish today's devs because devs back then were ripping us off.

How much of those profits do you think loot crates and microtransactions in general are responsible for?for a company like EA, i'm going to be generous and guess its maybe 5%, its probably more like 2 or 3%.
 
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