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[TangoAlphaLima]

Can we not normalize this? Ill give him props for saying some things that make sense now but he was a fucking horrible president that helped sew the fabric of what we are now dealing with.

Eh, I think you can clearly blame Sarah Palin and the rise of the Tea Party more for the current state of affairs than Bush. Granted, Bush was absolutely incompetent and is directly responsible for the rise of ISIS, among other great mistakes, but I don't think the current state of American politics is his fault.

 

[Lautaro]

Misses him compared to Trump does not equate to forgetting his war crimes.

But that's worse. That means you are actively missing a president despite remembering the shitty things he did.

 

[CookTrain]

This thread is trippy to read. Bush has so much blood on his hands and he's been given the goofball retirement package.

 

[The Real Abed]

Whilst I firmly believe Trump is capable of the same and worse, he has yet to knowingly lead the US into a war on false pretences, kill hundreds of thousands, and start up a torture program.

He is literally itching to exactly those things. If we give him time he will. We must not give him the time.

 

[TheXbox]

Thankfully, no one has forgotten this about Bush. The thread reactions in here are bonkers. I get the intent, but do we need a P.S. after every post about him that acknowledges we know he is a piece of shit who did shitty things?

It wasn't a P.S., it was my entire post. If you're a liberal who hates Trump and "misses" Bush - whatever that means - you're either a hypocrite or you're deeply confused. I wish there was a nicer way to say that, but as soon as liberals start waxing poetic about the motherfucking Bush administration, I get concerned.

 

[Iksenpets]

Bush was a colossal fuck-up who did way more material harm than Trump (so far, at least...) but I never really doubted that he cared and was trying to do the right thing. He was just massively, catastrophically wrong about what the right thing was. Bush was wrong, Trump is evil.

Bush will probably end up having dont more material wrong at the end of the day, but Trump is doing infinitely more moral damage to the fabric of the country. Whatever Bush's actions, there was real value in the fact that he still felt constrained to frame them all in terms of decency and liberal values. That we all had to at least act like there was some sense of morality that still mattered. Trump essentially gets up there every day and tells people that nothing matters and be as awful as you like.

That all said, it's hard to compare the moral damage done at home with the mortal catastrophe Trump wrought abroad. It's complicated. Trump personally repulses me more than Bush by orders of magnitude, but there's also part of me that feels like that's short-sighted towards the real harm.

 

[MontyBrown]

Iraq and Afghanistan. No way is Trump anywhere near as bad.

 

[Marcel]

This thread is trippy to read. Bush has so much blood on his hands and he's been given the goofball retirement package.

American liberals love to apologize for war criminals and bureaucrats with blood on their hands as long as they are "rational actors". See also: Henry Kissinger

 

[DogDude]

I like the part where he criticized conspiracy theories invading politics when he launched a war based on a conspiracy theory. Fuck him. He's 10000x worse than Trump has been.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Bush has a core decency that Trump lacks. You see it in his life after office. He wanted to do right things but did them the wrong way. He has basic empathy.

Trump, by contrast appears to possess no basic empathy or core decency. By most measures, he appears to be a narcissist, a fascist, a sociopath and a pathological liar. He shows all the signs of being an actual supremacist.

He is objectively more dangerous, troubled and troubling than W and we need to pray daily that he never finds himself in a position to make the kinds of decision W had to make, as it is likely that the results would be far more devastating for the world.

 

[Forerunner]

This is the speech I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07UKipL8PLE

I admit, this is a good speech.

 

[cartographer]

Bush has a core decency that Trump lacks. You see it in his life after office. He wanted to do right things but did them the wrong way. He has basic empathy.

What's the right thing when it comes to an illegal torture prison? Or starting a war on a lie?

Please.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Looks like people forgot about Katrina.

But Brownie did a heckuva job.

 

[Henchmen21]

Threads like this showing (once again) that neoliberal centrists are nothing more than republican-lite. Nothing proved that more than when they trotted out Henry "war criminal" Kissinger during the convention and showered him with adoration.

Bush is a heinous human being who belongs in jail. He was not a "good guy" who was "trying to be a good person but got it wrong". He's a vile piece of shit. End of story.

 

[linkboy]

Bush has a core decency that Drumpf lacks. You see it in his life after office. He wanted to do right things but did them the wrong way. He has basic empathy.

Drumpf, by contrast appears to possess no basic empathy or core decency. By most measures, he appears to be a narcissist, a fascist, a sociopath and a pathological liar. He shows all the signs of being an actual supremacist.

He is objectively more dangerous, troubled and troubling than W and we need to pray daily that he never finds himself in a position to make the kinds of decision W had to make, as it is likely that the results would be far more devastating for the world.

That is essentially my stance as well.

Bush was a terrible president and fucked a lot of things up, a lot of which we're still paying for.

Trump is the worst of Bush's fuck-ups without any of the moral compasses keeping them in check.

 

[Brinbe]

Bush was a terrible president and responsible for the downward spiral of the nation. No one is saying he isn't complicit in the unnecessary murder and deaths of many and if there were any justice in the world, he'd be in prison. But I always thought he was also a semi-decent human being who, regardless of his sins, did genuinely care about people.

So that automatically makes him a billion times better than Trump ever will be.

 

[Lunaray]

Misses him compared to Trump does not equate to forgetting his war crimes. Maybe take the angle of arguing the war crimes are themselves worse than what Trump has done?

I'm out. Can see where this thread is going...nowhere great.

I'm not sure why you are taking issue with the responses. The bolded point is exactly why people are bringing up Bush's war crimes.

 

[Shake Appeal]

This thread is trippy to read. Bush has so much blood on his hands and he's been given the goofball retirement package.

Radical centrists just want to respect our long, proud tradition of civil governance in this, the greatest nation the world has ever seen. Show that old stupid white guy who did immeasurable harm to many millions some respect!

 

[mnannola]

Bush seems like a decent person that did some bad things as President.

Trump is the complete opposite of a decent person. If he had any political acumen or competent people around him that could actually execute his agenda, he would be far worse than Bush.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

I mean, that's kinda like missing being drowned to death when you're being burned to death. Probably less painful but do you really MISS it?

 

[Chmpocalypse]

You know things have gone to shit when we're praising war criminals for being more sane than the current president.*




*Russia

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

That is essentially my stance as well.

Bush was a terrible president and fucked a lot of things up, a lot of which we're still paying for.

Trump is the worst of Bush's fuck-ups without any of the moral compasses keeping them in check.

How many Iraqi and Afghan citizens has Trump killed again? The worst of his fuck up? Come on son.

 

[Vermillion]

Bush was a terrible president and by all metrics is still a worse one than Trump, you just can't upsurp him as the worst president in such a short amount of time.

Bush the man and how you feel about his humanity is irrelevant towards his policy work and Trump's Trumpness.

Consider what that lack of humanity has lead to.

Metrics were indeed worse, but... morale was a little better.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

What's the right thing when it comes to an illegal torture prison? Or starting a war on a lie?

Please.

Imagine what Trump would do. Step back and fucking imagine it.

 

[Marcel]

Bush was a terrible president and responsible for the downward spiral of the nation. No one is saying he isn't complicit in the unnecessary murder and deaths of many and if there were any justice in the world, he'd be in prison. But I always thought he was also a semi-decent human being who, regardless of his sins, did genuinely care about people.

So that automatically makes him a billion times better than Trump ever will be.

Credible estimates of Iraq War casualties range from 110,000 to 460,000.[1] Other highly disputed estimates, such as the 2006 Lancet study, and the 2007 Opinion Research Business survey, put the numbers as high as 650,000 and 1.2 million respectively.[1]

Want to try again?

 

[slit]

Sorry but he has caused more misery than even Trump. Don't get me wrong, I know Trump is capable of even outdoing Bush but the fact is he hasn't YET. His words may be refreshing but they are just that: words.

 

[Lautaro]

"At least Bush had a good heart"

Epitaph for thousands and thousands of iraqis, afghans and americans.

I'll make it simpler:

Actual deaths > Potential deaths

Or maybe you can just do nothing and let Trump become worse than Bush, that's up to you but the present is the present.

 

[cartographer]

Imagine what Trump would do. Step back and fucking imagine it.

That's not what you said. Where's the core decency in Gitmo? In the Iraq War? In how he handled Katrina.

Show me it. Don't move the goalposts. Show me.

 

[Henchmen21]

Imagine what Trump would do. Step back and fucking imagine it.

So imagine some made up imaginary situation you trotted out vs. the actual torture and illegal wars Bush started.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

Imagine what Trump would do. Step back and fucking imagine it.

Probably the same thing but sloppier and with more blustering.

 

[AAK]

Fuck anyone that ever says they "miss" Bush. One of history's worst war criminals. Hope he feels even a fraction of the misery he's inflicted to the world.

 

[ZeroGravity]

Trunp genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing too

BS. Trump has zero conviction for anything. The only thing the man cares about is himself.

 

[Marcel]

"At least Bush had a good heart"

Epitaph for thousands and thousands of iraqis, afghans and americans.

Yeah I'm sure all those civilians who still die today in Iraq and the Middle East in general really appreciate Bush's compassion for them as they eat bullets or worse.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Irrespective of the amount of damage and harm the Bush administration did or that Trump has yet to do—Bush has spent his retirement painting portraits of the men who died under his watch. Trump is an asshole to grieving parents and lies about giving them money or other presidents better supporting the troops.

Tells me all I need to know about who is the failure of a human being.

 

[Kickz]

Trump sucks, but he hasn't pushed us in two wars and had a huge recession yet.

Yea people need to chill with wanting a war criminal over a blowhard...😕😕

 

[Marcel]

Fuck anyone that ever says they "miss" Bush. One of history's worst war criminals. Hope he feels even a fraction of the misery he's inflicted to the world.

Seriously. I'm ashamed to share a political affiliation with anyone who will play defense for the fucking Bush administration.

 

[Lautaro]

Yeah I'm sure all those civilians who still die today in Iraq and the Middle East in general really appreciate Bush's compassion for them as they eat bullets or worse.

B-But he's sad about it, he paints!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

How many Iraqi and Afghan citizens has Trump killed again? The worst of his fuck up? Come on son.

And Trump will make that look like amateur hour if he gets his way in a future conflict. He seems to have no reluctance about open conflict with Iran and pushing them towards returning to the development of nuclear weapons. He freely threatens open nuclear war on the Korean Peninsula. Imagine what the casualty tally would be.

W was bad. 45 absolutely has the potential and the will to be worse. See the forest behind the trees.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Everyone shut up with this wistful Bush talk. You're making asses of yourselves.

I remember when Cheney said history would be kind to Bush. You're making this easy for these assholes.

 

[SKINNER!]

Bush has a core decency that Trump lacks. You see it in his life after office. He wanted to do right things but did them the wrong way. He has basic empathy.

Trump, by contrast appears to possess no basic empathy or core decency. By most measures, he appears to be a narcissist, a fascist, a sociopath and a pathological liar. He shows all the signs of being an actual supremacist.

He is objectively more dangerous, troubled and troubling than W and we need to pray daily that he never finds himself in a position to make the kinds of decision W had to make, as it is likely that the results would be far more devastating for the world.

Just because Trump is unprofessional and careless doesn't make Bush all the more a better and merciful president. You can see it in his life after office? Really? because he draws portraits and plays with his terriers in his ranch with a huge grin? Suddenly, we understand that him and his administration were human and compassionate enough to endorse torture, eavesdrop on his own citizens, overstay their welcome in one war and start another one based on absolute lies?

Everyone shut up with this wistful Bush talk. You're making asses of yourselves.

I remember when Cheney said history would be kind to Bush. You're making this easy for these assholes.

Yup. How old are all those Bush stans? Clearly forgot it all.

 

[linkboy]

How many Iraqi and Afghan citizens has Drumpf killed again? The worst of his fuck up? Come on son.

I've never absolved Bush of that. The entire Iraq war was a total fuck-up. I'd rather we not make that mistake again. However, we've currently got a president who is more then willing to make that mistake on a much grander scale.

Trump is actively talking about an attack on North Korea. Has it happened yet, no (thankfully). He's talked about using the nuclear option (which scares the fuck out of me and is something Bush never brought up).

The man wants to wipe North Korea off the map and he doesn't give two shits about the consequences. The humanitarian crisis that will result from that action will be on a level the world has never seen (and that's not to mention the potential impact of an attack on Seoul, that will pretty much happen, as Osan AB is where the Air Force would launch the attack from and it's about 60 miles from the DMZ).

An attack on North Korea will dwarf Iraq and Afghanistan in just about every way.

 

[kruis]

No, he just outright killed people and destabilized a whole region instead.

Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton helped oust Khadaffi which left a power vacuum in Libya and resulted in a civil war in Libya. The US is directly responsible for the presence of ISIS in that country.

And let's not forget that the US under Obama was responsible for tens of thousands drone attacks in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. The US also gives miliary aid to Syrian rebels (aka Al Qaeda) and promotes war crimes in Yemen.

 

[Ragnarsson]

I don't miss Bush, at all. He was a complete disaster and a vile President (like pretty much every Republican President since, at least, Nixon). The fact that Obama managed to undo most of what he did and get the USA back on track (at least, economically and internationally speaking) doesn't change that fact. Once a Democrat gets on the White House (hopefully in 3 years) and starts to undo all the evil shit Trump is doing, that won't make Trump a better President or his legacy less tenebrous.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton helped oust Khadaffi which left a power vacuum in Libya and resulted in a civil war in Libya. The US is directly responsible for the presence of ISIS in that country.

And let's not forget that the US under Obama was responsible for tens of thousands drone attacks in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. The US also gives miliary aid to Syrian rebels (aka Al Qaeda) and promotes war crimes in Yemen.

Bush can be shit and people can say so without his political opponents having to match up to it.

 

[norm9]

Motherfucker blew up Iraq as revenge. Sounds petty as fuck to me.

 

[Henchmen21]

Yea people need to chill with wanting a war criminal over a blowhard...😕😕

Seriously. I'm ashamed to share a political affiliation with anyone who will play defense for the fucking Bush administration.

B-But he's sad about it, he paints!

Lol yeah. Neolibs would be Republicans today if the Overton window hadn't shifted this right.

 

[SKINNER!]

Motherfucker blew up Iraq as revenge. Sounds petty as fuck to me.

Gotta finish the job daddy started.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Don’t forget the attempt at privatizing social security

 

[slit]

Bush has a core decency that Trump lacks. You see it in his life after office. He wanted to do right things but did them the wrong way. He has basic empathy.

Trump, by contrast appears to possess no basic empathy or core decency. By most measures, he appears to be a narcissist, a fascist, a sociopath and a pathological liar. He shows all the signs of being an actual supremacist.

He is objectively more dangerous, troubled and troubling than W and we need to pray daily that he never finds himself in a position to make the kinds of decision W had to make, as it is likely that the results would be far more devastating for the world.

What a bunch of baloney. You argument boils down to, "Yeah he did horrible things but he was nicer about it."

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Lol fuck Bush and Cheney and the whole staff.

How many dead innocent people because of that prick and the thing you miss about him was that he was less stupid than Trump?