Henchmen21
Banned
Yup. It's why they all flocked to Hillary "never met a war she didn't like" Clinton.
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I can't believe I'm saying this..I miss Bush. He just owned Trump.
- Thread starter super-heated plasma
- Start date
Yup. It's why they all flocked to Hillary "never met a war she didn't like" Clinton.
You mean like what Hillary's campaign tried? Yeah, that didn't work.
Even if Democrats made more appeals to Republicans, they wouldn't get enough to make up for the people who would rightfully abandon the party. Whether it's opposing gun control, opposing abortion access, opposing LGBTQ rights, or opposing the rights of anyone who isn't white, Republican policies are incompatible with the Democratic party. Anything that would get Republicans to reliably switch would make current Democrats leave in droves.
theclosetfan
Member
Liberals prefer snatching victory from the jaws of defeat by running purity tests and alienating potential allies so they can never form a governing coalition that can withstand being immediately shredded by extreme right wing rhetoric.
I think Bush would have been a far more moderate and pragmatic President had 9/11 not happened. He let Cheney and Rumsfeld and those goons get the best of him.
He didnt have the tact to sense how badly they were hijacking his Presidency until it was too late. Nor did he have the will to deal with it properly.
He didnt have the tact to sense how badly they were hijacking his Presidency until it was too late. Nor did he have the will to deal with it properly.
I honestly think that was more of an orchestration by Cheney than Bush. Bush may have gone along with it, but it's pretty clear (to me) that he was played by his VP.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
How are people washing him of his actions by claiming he was trying to do the right thing?
This thread's a bit baffling.
Like..how? After everything he's done.
He's relegated to being a lovable oaf?
Bloody disgusting..
This thread's a bit baffling.
Like..how? After everything he's done.
He's relegated to being a lovable oaf?
Bloody disgusting..
cartographer
Member
Sometimes you try to do the right thing and open a torture camp instead. We've all been there.
The downline consequences of the harm he is doing without starting a war could be as devastating tbh.
Totally. It's like that time when Obama accidentally expanded the drone program. It can happen so easily.
Sorry I was watching this old cute little condoner of illegal torture and war criminal dance on Ellen so I couldn't pay attention. What were you saying?
Because more years have passed since Bush was president and people tend to forgot about things. Especially when the person puts on a cute song and dance to try and hide their legacy.
Henchmen21
Banned
I remember the last time I tried to do the right thing and ended up cluster bombing an innocent country. Boy was there egg on my face that day I'll tell you.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Sorry I was watching this old cute little condoner of illegal torture and war criminal dance on Ellen so I couldn't pay attention. What were you saying?
That image pisses me off beyond words..
This world sucks.
Hey, don't sweat it. Your heart was in the right place!
Clearly intentions matter more than actions.
TFW you accidentally falsify evidence and invade a sovereign nation.
Trump genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing for Trump.
If I have to live under someone evil who is not directly answerable to me, then I'd rather be able to live more comfortably.
That's the banality of evil for you. It's easier to look the other way when you feel like there's a stable system that can work things out. Chaos is scary.
No Hilary would have been a fantastic president especially over any of the other candidates including Bernie. Trump and Bush are both terrible and I don't know how anyone would want either of them as president.
I get that. But it's also why nobody should listen to liberals.
Henchmen21
Banned
Thanks. I'll just draw shitty paintings. That'll get neolibs to forgive me for killing thousands.
I'm not up on my internet slang. TFW?
Somewhat Damaged
Member
It's really gross and disappointing that people are so willing to settle for much less because of Trump. Things seem to exist, to a lot of people, on the metric of "yeah but Trump is worse". You shouldn't long for or miss someone like Bush just because of how awful Trump is. You shouldn't dismiss the corruption or unprofessional actions of leaders of another country solely because of Trump either. I'll see people being critical of their own government and all (many, not all) Americans have to say is "Yeah well at least you don't have the orange turd". It's extremely frustrating to watch people essentially drown out memories of other atrocious people and dismiss other people's leadership issues solely because their own leader is awful.
You do know there was this little thing called the global financial crisis that peaked under Bush in 2008 that sowed a ton of chaos around the world, right?
theclosetfan
Member
Sorry I was watching this old cute little condoner of illegal torture and war criminal dance on Ellen so I couldn't pay attention. What were you saying?
I hate George W. Bush's presidency as much as anyone. I agree that he's a war criminal.
But right now, he's speaking out against the current abysmal Republican President who is poised to launch a war on the Korean Peninsula that will make Iraq look quaint.
You want a sweeping leftist agenda to change this country? We could very well have a President Sanders or Warren in four years. If you want them to have the power to enact it, they need a Congressional majority. To win that, the left has to start winning rural areas and heavily gerrymandered districts ASAP.
You don't have to embrace Bush's past actions or even like him as a person to recognize that, right now, he's playing a role in splitting the unhinged rightwing stranglehold on the federal government.
Man it shows how fuckin broken the political system is that Bush, a complete and utter war criminal, is being used as a contrast to Trump. BushI is a warmonger and repugnant fuck who essentially brought Iraq back to the stone age through an illegal war. Until Trump does that, and I fuckin hate Trump, there isn't a comparison. What a world we live in fuckin hell.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Well, that's just sad.
It's important to remember.
I believe they know but the understandable hatred for Trump has gotten some people to lower their standards.
Making for some completely absurd and insensitive statements regarding Bush.
Reading some of the posts, it's as if the man has done little wrong.
They're both unrepentant garbage.
While I do agree with you that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Powell (before he bailed out due to a guilty conscience) are also responsible for the atrocities during that era. That doesn't excuse Bush from it. It is clearly prevalent that a commander in chief can call the shots thanks to orange fanta face. Bush deliberately allow Cheney to orchestrate a mess in the ME for his personal gain. If he didn't then I'm sure we would've heard about the internal turmoil about it within the administration by now. Bush is still responsible.
plagiarize
Banned
If we're comparing their character, Bush is absolutely the better person.
If we're comparing their acts as president... well, Bush's greatest crimes happened more than 9 months into his presidency, so I would definitely hesitate to point out that Trump is yet to do more awful stuff than Bush did in his 8 years in the white house.
If we're comparing their acts as president... well, Bush's greatest crimes happened more than 9 months into his presidency, so I would definitely hesitate to point out that Trump is yet to do more awful stuff than Bush did in his 8 years in the white house.
Yup
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Are there any receipts for "Bush was a good (or incompetent guy) that got taken advantage of by his administration" ?
I've been a little annoyed by some Democrats/Libs on my FB that post a Reagan or Bush 2 video clip and say something along the lines of "this is what a real president sounds like" or I miss Bush.
Even Huffpost praised a Reagan clip this year IIRC.
I've been a little annoyed by some Democrats/Libs on my FB that post a Reagan or Bush 2 video clip and say something along the lines of "this is what a real president sounds like" or I miss Bush.
Even Huffpost praised a Reagan clip this year IIRC.
Do you think I'm defending Bush? He was an absolutely atrocious President, among the worst ever. If I think he's better than Trump, that's only because I think Trump would also cause a global financial crisis given equal time in office.
I really, really don't want him back as President.
Spiritwalker
Member
Bush is still the bigger monster.
so the other day i was watching a Gaberial Iglesias standup and he's like man our president is an idiot, he's a moron and im like oh here comes the trump jokes, and then it turns out it was W. Bush jokes. I'm like oh man, if you thought that was bad
TacticalHotdog
Member
Imagine if there were a president 8 years from now that would make you miss Trump
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Looking at the history of the US, which president does not have some military action under his watch that killed innocents and/or destabilized a region? I mean, I am not excusing Bush or anyone else, it just seems like it is something at every president gets involved in one way or another. The question I have is, "Why?"
This. The key is that we are comparing 8 years of Bush to 10 months of Trump, in which there's no real comparison to be had. Hell, you could even go for a same month comparison and Bush would still win via how he handled the 9/11 response.
Could Trump end up being worse? Possibly. But let's not go suddenly forgetting the bad shit Bush let happen because Trump is an even bigger moron.
So your hypothetical version of Trump is worse than Bush. Okay, but that's not how reality works.
Hari Seldon
Member
I think the difference between Bush and Trump is that Bush was awful by circumstance. 9/11 required a Roosevelt level of president, not just an average one. It is easy to see Bush being an adequate non-controversial president during the 90s. Trump is awful even without a giant calamity.
Because wars are ok as long as they are "presidential" about it.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It's a view of the world as a cartoon instead of a tapestry that requires many viewings from various perspectives to appreciate. Was W wrong about most things? Yes, wrong barely begins to cover it. Every time? No. Now? It's reasonable to listen to W now and use our best judgement as to what value or merit there is to what is said. That's not forgiveness, it's using our brain. He's not irredeemable trash like Trump. That being said, I'm listening to Ministry "Houses of the Mole" as I'm posting this.
I wonder how the world wouldve looked without this mass murderer. All the shit hes done. I get so upset just thinking about how many people have died as a result of him and the people who supported him.
And dont get me started on the financial policies and how that contributed to the worlds worst financial crisis that we are still reeling from.
And dont get me started on the financial policies and how that contributed to the worlds worst financial crisis that we are still reeling from.
minor effort
Banned
First of all, Bush is a fucking war criminal who belongs in jail. And at the present the results of Bush's presidency are far, far worse than Trump's.
With that established, I think it's natural for people to look to small moments in the past when things, given the power of hindsight, seem less bleak because we know to an extent how they eventually unfolded. The Trump administration has been pretty concentrated in how much of a disaster its been so far, and while it's premature to compare it to all eight years of George W. Bush, this presidency has been extremely threatening at times. Threats of nuclear war, hints of conflict with Iran, Muslim bans, repealing DACA, attacking LGBT rights, endorsing white supremacy and it's visible resurgence during this year, and more. People aren't delusional to be worried and scared given all of that.
People don't know how bad the Trump administration is capable of becoming. The feeling was largely the same during the worst points of the Bush administration, but over the past nine months it all feels a bit accelerated. And that's draining for a lot of folks. I don't think people in here are necessarily nostalgic for the Bush presidency, but it's just a reflexive action when Trump's acting both threatening and inscrutable. Bush's mindset was at least more linear when compared to Trump's.
I know the difference between living under a fascist and a deranged fascist isn't really worth splitting hairs over, but the latter has been pretty exhausting at times.
With that established, I think it's natural for people to look to small moments in the past when things, given the power of hindsight, seem less bleak because we know to an extent how they eventually unfolded. The Trump administration has been pretty concentrated in how much of a disaster its been so far, and while it's premature to compare it to all eight years of George W. Bush, this presidency has been extremely threatening at times. Threats of nuclear war, hints of conflict with Iran, Muslim bans, repealing DACA, attacking LGBT rights, endorsing white supremacy and it's visible resurgence during this year, and more. People aren't delusional to be worried and scared given all of that.
People don't know how bad the Trump administration is capable of becoming. The feeling was largely the same during the worst points of the Bush administration, but over the past nine months it all feels a bit accelerated. And that's draining for a lot of folks. I don't think people in here are necessarily nostalgic for the Bush presidency, but it's just a reflexive action when Trump's acting both threatening and inscrutable. Bush's mindset was at least more linear when compared to Trump's.
I know the difference between living under a fascist and a deranged fascist isn't really worth splitting hairs over, but the latter has been pretty exhausting at times.
Bush's administration went into office fully intending to invade Iraq. Afghanistan would have happened under virtually any American president. Iraq was wholly unique to an administration full of officials angry that Bush Sr. didn't "finish the job."
Acknowledging that there were positive aspects of Bush's presidency that people can miss in the age of Trump (Bush not being a sociopath, Bush being a supporter of a Multiculutral America, his support of aid to Africa) doesn't mean that you're ignoring that he was a godawful president who did a lot of harm.
