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[Aquamarine]

We are only counting 2D Mario, and why? There weren't exactly any 3D marios during the 80s and early 90s. Seems like an unfair comparison to me.


1. 2006 - New Super Mario Bros.
2. 2007 - SMG
3. 2009 - New Super Mario Bros. Wii
4. 2010 - SMG2
5. 2011 - Super Mario 3D Land
6. 2012 - New Super Mario Bros. 2
7. 2012 - New Super Mario Bros. U

2D Mario games (and 2D-ish games like 3D Land) are so radically different from 3D Mario games (SMG), to the point that I would call them two different types of IPs.

NSMB: May 15th, 2006
NSMBW: Nov 16th, 2009
NSMB2: Aug 19th, 2012
NSMBU: Nov 18th, 2012

As I said in my previous post, the third and fourth games are pushing it, but the previous games in the series had three years between them until just last year. And while the basic mechanics are the same, they aren't the same game. It's not like the whole Arkham situation. I do feel a difference playing each of those games.

With that said, this series DOES need to take a break as far as main series releases. The DLC doesn't count, but we need another two to three years before another "New" Mario game is released.

I'm likening NSMB 2 and NSMB U to SMB and SMB 2...both are very similar in design to their iterative sequels, and both were released right after each other.

Luckily, with Nintendo's "2D Mario Expansion Packs" strategy, we won't see another 2D Mario game for a LONG time. I don't think there is anyone out there who isn't at least a little bit fatigued with 2D Mario at the moment.

2 games in one year, even if they are for separate platforms, is too much for any IP. They really shouldn't have released NSMB 2 until 2014.

 

[Korgill]

I think that the "New" series is mainly for the older fans who are still playing SMB and SMB3 to this day. Especially 2's more hardcore modes. These are the fans that like when it stays the same and isn't radically different. Unlike the 3D games that are meant to pull in new and lapsed players as well. They have the freedom to do whatever they want.

 

[Haunted]

Watching my 4- and 6- year old nephew and niece take to Mario (sorry, Super Mario as my niece corrected me) and Donkey Kong like nobody's business with their respective Wii entries is pretty special.

 

[FieryBalrog]

After reading this thread I can only conclude that a lot of GAFers are very sensitive and defensive when it comes to Nintendo.

It's OK, you don't need to keep reminding everyone that Mario is the most popularest of the popularities. I think when people complain about Nintendo slapping a Mario label on many dozen different random games, they're fully aware that Mario is quite popular and it has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

2D Mario games (and 2D-ish games like 3D Land) are so radically different from 3D Mario games (SMG), to the point that I would call them two different types of IPs.



I'm likening NSMB 2 and NSMB U to SMB and SMB 2...both are very similar in design their iterative sequels, and both released after each other.

Luckily, with Nintendo's "2D Mario Expansion Packs" strategy, we won't see another 2D Mario game for a LONG time. I don't think there is anyone out there who isn't at least a little bit fatigued with 2D Mario at the moment.

2 games in one year, even if they are for separate platforms, is too much for any IP. They really shouldn't have released NSMB 2 until 2014.

Agreed. I was really surprised when they rolled out 2 and U last year, and I think it was a bad move. I think the next mainline "New" game will likely be the one that disrupts the 2D Mario cycle, especially if they plan on just supporting these current games with DLC.

Not that any of this matters. Everyone'll be blown away by 3D Mario in a few months anyway.

Edit:

I think when people complain about Nintendo slapping a Mario label on many dozen different random games, they're fully aware that Mario is quite popular and it has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint.

This isn't true, though. These franchises have been going on forever. It's not like they were making a completely new IP and decided to throw Mario in it for a few extra sales.

 

[Knux-Future]

After reading this thread I can only conclude that a lot of GAFers are very sensitive and defensive when it comes to Nintendo.

It's OK, you don't need to keep reminding everyone that Mario is the most popularest of the popularities. I think when people complain about Nintendo slapping a Mario label on many dozen different random games, they're fully aware that Mario is quite popular and it has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint.

But that's exactly why they do it.

It fucking sells.

This isn't a charity bro...they gotta make cash. Mario does it.

Outside of the NSMB series, it's not even that bad honestly. Sure there are a lot of them but there will probably be only one of each for their respective consoles. So Mario golf will be THE Mario Golf game for the 3ds. Mario and Luigi will probably be the Mario RPG for the 3ds....and so on and so on..

and besides they are great games.....isn't that all that matters?

 

[FieryBalrog]

But that's exactly why they do it.

It fucking sells.

This isn't a charity bro...they gotta make cash. Mario does it.

As a customer and general gaming enthusiast, I ain't a charity, "bro". I see milking, I'm gonna call it. I don't gush about the latest Transformers movie because "it fucking sells".

ITT: people that dont own a Nintendo system like to talk about how tired a franchise that they don't even play is. Real cute.

Weird, because the only systems I own are Nintendo handhelds (DS Lite, DSi, 3DS). I literally have never owned another gaming system. Everything else on PC. Even in college, most of my console gaming was on a roommate's gamecube and the majority of it was Mario related stuff.

I don't mind the Mario platformers at all since they're great and they're the "core" Mario experience, but I could do without the Mario Parasailing, Mario: Toothbrush and Dance Dance Mario franchises.

 

[jwhit28]

After reading this thread I can only conclude that a lot of GAFers are very sensitive and defensive when it comes to Nintendo.

It's OK, you don't need to keep reminding everyone that Mario is the most popularest of the popularities. I think when people complain about Nintendo slapping a Mario label on many dozen different random games, they're fully aware that Mario is quite popular and it has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint.

And I hope you understand the people are sensitive because good games are being attacked because they have Mario in them. Not because of how they play or the question of their quality.

 

[Cuburt]

Even in the year of Luigi, it's still all about Mario.

Poor Luigi.

 

[Black Republican]

More Mario Rpgs, less crappy 3d games

 

[Mr E.]

Watching my 4- and 6- year old nephew and niece take to Mario (sorry, Super Mario as my niece corrected me) and Donkey Kong like nobody's business with their respective Wii entries is pretty special.

Exactly this. There's not a lot of titles I can think of on PS or Xbox that can provide this.
I'm sure there's something but I can't think of it.

 

[KillerTravis]

I don't mind the Mario platformers at all since they're great and they're the "core" Mario experience, but I could do without the Mario Parasailing, Mario: Toothbrush and Dance Dance Mario franchises.

Where are those games? Because they sound real shitty.

 

[FieryBalrog]

And I hope you understand the people are sensitive because good games are being attacked because they have Mario in them. Not because of how they play or the question of their quality.

Having Mario in the game isn't just 5 letters in the name that you read on the cover and then never look at again while you play the game. It obviously comes with an entire pre-set aesthetic with a ton of established baggage.

Also pointing this out isn't "an attack", don't be a fool.

 

[Aquamarine]

Where are those games? Because they sound real shitty.

This game was probably a bit of a cash-in...

 

[CaptainGyro]

So how exactly would Paper Mario be more interesting if it didn't have Mario in it?

 

[FieryBalrog]

So how exactly would Paper Mario be more interesting if it didn't have Mario in it?

It could have a completely different aesthetic and universe?

Gee, it's like nothing would have changed! Why do people hate Mario!!!!1 :*(

Where are those games? Because they sound real shitty.

Why does Mario Parasailing sound worse than Mario Golf or Mario Tennis or Mario [sport] or Mario [noun]

 

[SykoTech]

It is rather annoying to see Mario get like 5+ games a year while some of Nintendo's franchises don't get a single game the whole generation. Especially when a decent number of them aren't even good.

But I won't complain if their new games like Dream Team can match the brillance of old ones like Superstar Saga.

 

[Pachterballs]

The Mario franchises is like the Disney mouse of gaming. I don't have an issue with the deluge of titles, I won't be buying a lot of it. Nintendo's well and truly lost their way with me.

They need to create New IPs but they're just fucking lazy and pathetic

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Mario/Luigi are very "dumb" characters, but they're never going away. The games don't really interest me anymore anyway so I don't pay too much attention to them these days.

 

[CaptainGyro]

It could have a completely different aesthetic and universe?

A new aethestic or universe by itself doesn't automatically make it more interesting. It just makes it....different.

 

[XenodudeX]

The Mario franchises is like the Disney mouse of gaming. I don't have an issue with the deluge of titles, I won't be buying a lot of it. Nintendo's well and truly lost their way with me.

They need to create New IPs but they're just fucking lazy and pathetic

Someone has a big ass chip on their shoulder. Did Nintendo kill your dog?

 

[Brqan]

.

 

[Mr Swine]

The Mario franchises is like the Disney mouse of gaming. I don't have an issue with the deluge of titles, I won't be buying a lot of it. Nintendo's well and truly lost their way with me.

They need to create New IPs but they're just fucking lazy and pathetic

Well aren't other devs also lazy and not just Nintendo?

 

[Dr.Hadji]

Remember when we had a thread and lots of people came and posted lies about saying gameplay was the most important thing in a game. Why were they lying? Because of threads like this. Graphics, graphics, graphics.

 

[DaBoss]

It could have a completely different aesthetic and universe?

Gee, it's like nothing would have changed! Why do people hate Mario!!!!1 :*(

This is such a weak argument. The gameplay would be the same. The story would be the same. Majority of the dialogue would be the same. Just because it has the Mario aesthetic it makes it a game you can write off?

And besides, I don't recall many Mario games taking place in the same places. The 2D Mario games do have the same themes, but I do believe this argument only about the Mario spinoffs.

 

[Shiggy]

Maybe Nintendo really needs a new CEO who creates something new. Iwata's only strategy seems to be milking the Mario franchise at the moment.

 

[Aquamarine]

Maybe Nintendo really needs a new CEO who creates something new. Iwata's only strategy seems to be milking the Mario franchise at the moment.

This is Iwata's 10th fiscal year as president. TEN YEARS of running Nintendo. He was behind the GameCube lineup, the DS lineup, the GBA lineup, the Wii lineup, and now the Wii U and 3DS lineup.

Do you really think Iwata has created "nothing new" in TEN years?

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Maybe Nintendo really needs a new CEO who creates something new. Iwata's only strategy seems to be milking the Mario franchise at the moment.

The problem is NOA doesn't see fit to release games like Last Story, which he produced, and only released Xenoblade Chronicles in limited quantities - to say nothing of all the other games that haven't been released since he took over in 2001. Gamecube had titles like Giftpia that looked really original, and Europe got several Wii titles like Disaster Day of Crisis and Another Code that NOA didn't release (Japan also got stuff like the outlandish Captain Rainbow, for example), and some DS titles like Tingle's freshly-picked rosy rupeeland. Then there are all the original IPs for GBA and DS that never made it out of Japan.

TLDR: Iwata has funded countless titles that never got translated or released in North America. Fuck NOA.

 

[Shiggy]

This is Iwata's 10th fiscal year as president. TEN YEARS of running Nintendo. He was behind the GameCube lineup, the DS lineup, the GBA lineup, the Wii lineup, and now the Wii U and 3DS lineup.

Do you really think Iwata has created "nothing new" in TEN years?

I only judge the direction he took with the 3DS and Wii U, and that is nothing to be proud of. The last Wii years were also terrible. The financials Nintendo is posting at the moment don't really come as a surprise, I think.

The problem is NOA doesn't see fit to release games like Last Story, which he produced, and only released Xenoblade Chronicles in limited quantities - to say nothing of all the other games that haven't been released since he took over in 2001. Europe got several Wii titles like Disaster Day of Crisis and Another Code that NOA didn't release, and some DS titles like Tingle's freshly-picked rosy rupeeland. Then there are all the GBA and DS games that never made it out of Japan. Fuck NOA.

Those were the games for which I loved Wii and DS. Add Ouendan. Add Hotel Dusk. The Last Story was my favourite 2012 game. It just seems as if they creating such titles anymore. "Oh, here's another Mario which looks exactly the same as the last one. And here's the great Animal Crossing for 3DS which also looks exactly the same as the last one. Oh before I forget, here is another Mario vs. DK game."
Stuff like the Wonderful 101 or Yoshi Yarn seem to the exception these days. I really wish they'd produce something new internally instead of just doing sequels with little changes. Maybe that's why people like me didn't buy the Wii U anymore.

 

[PixyJunket]

Nintendo honestly doesn't get enough credit for how varied the Mario universe is, in my opinion (outside of Kart/Sports/Party stuff).

Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi are both Mario universe RPGs, right? Okay but outside of a few core characters and items and such, they have their own unique looks, their own unique worlds, they play differently and they accomplish different things. They are both Mario and they are both RPGs but they're completely individual IPs. I won't deny that creating some original characters in the place of Mario would be more interesting, but eh, the reality is that Paper Steve could have been the exact same game that Paper Mario was and it probably would not have sold strong enough to get Paper Steve: The Thousand Year Door.

Wario is a Mario universe character and he has two of his own series and they couldn't be more different. And Nintendo, as far as I know, respectfully treats them as separate. Captain Syrup is not a part of Wario Ware and we'll not likely see 9-Volt in a future Wario Land game.

Same as Donkey Kong Contry versus Mario vs. Donkey Kong.

Yoshi games have their own vibe too.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

No.

Also, you may be waiting around for another 28 years.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Someone needs to make a photoshop of all the Disney Silver Age films replace the main character's face with Mickey Mouse

imagine:
Little Mermaid
Beauty and the Beast
Lion King
Aladdin
with Mickey Mouse in a starring role

but Disney selfishly refused to give us this dream

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Nintendo honestly doesn't get enough credit for how varied the Mario universe is, in my opinion (outside of Kart/Sports/Party stuff).

Pretty much. And besides, the Kart/Sports/Party stuff they put out is just as good if not better than the vast majority of Kart/Sports/Party games that rip them off.
Sega's recent karting game is the first in a very long time that actually looks like it may be better than the latest Mario Kart.

 

[Kouriozan]

Everyone knows Mario, even if Nintendo dies someday, Mario will still live in everyone's heart.

 

[Oblivion]

We were all disappointed greatly with SMG2, it's true, but to take your frustrations out on Mario is a bit overkill, imo.

 

[hongcha]

I still like Mario games, but I feel like Nintendo is overdosing us. It feels like almost every first party game they announce for the 3DS has either Mario or Luigi in it. I'd like some more variety and some more attention paid to other franchises like Zelda, Metroid, Kirby and Starfy (seriously, where's my Starfy 3DS game??). Not one of those has an original 3DS game yet.

A Super Princess Peach 3DS sequel would be cool too.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Mario has consistently been Nintendo's most popular and highest quality franchise. Just look at how amazing Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 were and how much of a sales beast the New Super Mario Bros. games were. Mario's popularity will never crash as long as the series produces games that are fun to play. It's as simple as that.

 

[PixyJunket]

Pretty much. And besides, the Kart/Sports/Party stuff they put out is just as good if not better than the vast majority of Kart/Sports/Party games that rip them off.

That is true, but I was mostly referring to the safer, generic visual design those games stick to in terms of the universe.

 

[chertipros]

The Mario franchises is like the Disney mouse of gaming. I don't have an issue with the deluge of titles, I won't be buying a lot of it. Nintendo's well and truly lost their way with me.

They need to create New IPs but they're just fucking lazy and pathetic

Not making new IP's is lazy and pathetic? Do you know what the word lazy means? Or do you think that a game is automatically easy to make just because it is part of an established IP?

 

[electroplankton]

What's with all the Mario hate today?

Everyone's mind will change once HD 3D Mario is shown!

We had a very good Nintendo Direct so, to trade off, we need some negative topics about Nintendo!

 

[AppleMIX]

2D Mario games (and 2D-ish games like 3D Land) are so radically different from 3D Mario games (SMG), to the point that I would call them two different types of IPs.



I'm likening NSMB 2 and NSMB U to SMB and SMB 2...both are very similar in design to their iterative sequels, and both were released right after each other.

Luckily, with Nintendo's "2D Mario Expansion Packs" strategy, we won't see another 2D Mario game for a LONG time. I don't think there is anyone out there who isn't at least a little bit fatigued with 2D Mario at the moment.

2 games in one year, even if they are for separate platforms, is too much for any IP. They really shouldn't have released NSMB 2 until 2014.

Completely agree. Also, 2D Mario is being completely outclassed by its peers. Not so much for 3D Mario.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Maybe Nintendo really needs a new CEO who creates something new. Iwata's only strategy seems to be milking the Mario franchise at the moment.

Those were the games for which I loved Wii and DS. Add Ouendan. Add Hotel Dusk. The Last Story was my favourite 2012 game. It just seems as if they creating such titles anymore. "Oh, here's another Mario which looks exactly the same as the last one. And here's the great Animal Crossing for 3DS which also looks exactly the same as the last one. Oh before I forget, here is another Mario vs. DK game."
Stuff like the Wonderful 101 or Yoshi Yarn seem to the exception these days. I really wish they'd produce something new internally instead of just doing sequels with little changes. Maybe that's why people like me didn't buy the Wii U anymore.

Well said, friend.

Iwata is the reason for why I can't trust Nintendo anymore and I know while he's under Nintendo's chair, franchise milking, cheap/low tech and casual approach will be Nintendo's direction. This is why there's little third-party support for Wii U, because this direction can't mesh with the gaming market reality.

 

[Zeth]

It's like asking Apple to stop selling the iPhone... iPad, and iPod.

 

[Esque7]

Nintendo needs to sell systems outside of Japan. Lots of Mario and Pokemon is probably the only way to do this since most people will not buy a 3DS for its 3rd party games.

 

[Revven]

I think it's amazing how a Direct, which announced new games, generated this thread simply because the games announced are ones that people are "burnt out on" just because of the characters involved. You wouldn't be interested even if they were new characters or a new world, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry Nintendo has a large library of spin off titles they've accumulated over the years? I mean, Mario Golf hasn't seen a title since 2003... almost ten years ago. Just as long of a time of absence as F-Zero or Kirby. And there has been some demand for the classic Mario sports titles to return (Tennis and Golf).

There are fans of the spin off titles for Mario. They're not going away.

Do you want Nintendo to be like Sony and sell off Mario to a third party only to never be seen again? Look at what Sony did to its first recognizable first party mascot (Crash). Do you want that? Is that what you want? Because I sure as hell don't.

 

[ffdgh]

Everyone knows Mario, even if Nintendo dies someday, Mario will still live in everyone's heart.

Yeah...in many's hollow heart with him gone...

 

[PixyJunket]

Not making new IP's is lazy and pathetic? Do you know what the word lazy means? Or do you think that a game is automatically easy to make just because it is part of an established IP?

It is an insane statement, in my eyes. Nintendo does far more with the Mario universe, genre and gameplay wise, than a lot of big "AAA" developers do over several "new" IPs. Oh hey, it's a shooter! Oh hey, it's a shooter (in a jungle). Oh hey, it's a shooter (in a desert). OH HEY IT'S A SHOOTER YUP IS NEW IP BECAUSE IT'S ZOMBIES AND ZOMBIES ARE ORIGINAL.

 

[Peru]

You're right they don't need Mario. Which is why there's no reason to complain. They're wildly different, capable of shooting off in their own direction, not tied down by the Mario association when it comes to gameplay or progression. Mario is a tool for Nintendo to sell these games while still offering new games in a variety of genres and styles - this is a good thing. We get the variety, but in a sustainable environment.

 

[Clefargle]

Why do some people not want some video games to be successful? I'm not a fan of COD but I'm glad that its successful because it brings moar players into the industry. It also opens up positions for new dev talent at treyarch and infinity ward. Why would you wish failure on anyone in the gaming industry is beyond me.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

It is an insane statement, in my eyes. Nintendo does far more with the Mario universe, genre and gameplay wise, than a lot of big "AAA" developers do over several "new" IPs. Oh hey, it's a shooter! Oh hey, it's a shooter (in a jungle). Oh hey, it's a shooter (in a desert). OH HEY IT'S A SHOOTER YUP IS NEW IP BECAUSE IT'S ZOMBIES AND ZOMBIES ARE ORIGINAL.

You forgot shooter in space. GOTYAY

I agree with this post, by the way.