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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 2. Haswell = #IntelnoTIM, but free online. READ THE OP.

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Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Jul 23, 2010
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eh, the new layout resizes images so it doesn't stretch your browser.
True, but you still have to scroll a stupid amount past them on a 30" monitor though :p

Images like that will wear out my scroll wheel! :D
 

appaws

Gold Member
Jan 31, 2008
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Can anyone talk me out of this? I have always been a Nvidia guy. I have a EVGA GTX 650 ti boost right now and my plan was to EVGA step up to a 780 once I have the money before my 90 day window closes. Then I was going to upgrade my monitor from 1080p to the dell u2713hm 1440p.

Sapphire HD 7970 with 5 games for $318 plus $20 MIR= $298?
Tomb Raider, Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon, Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite, and Borderlands 2 in the combo deal.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202008

The more I think about it though I might be just better off grabbing this card now for better 1080p gaming plus all the free games I do not have and want to play and then 3-4 months from now when I have the money for both a 780 and new monitor I could upgrade then. Sound reasoning or should I stick to my original plan? I have always gone with Nvidia though and I was really looking forward to shadowplay that is coming out this week.
The upgrade to a 7970 at that price with all those games seems like a good move from the 650ti....but dropping 300 bucks and then upgrading again in 3-4 months seems a little crazy to me. Unless you just have a lot of money or something, then it is fine I guess.

Couldn't you do the 7970 deal now...then get the better monitor in 3-4 months and stick with the 7970 for a while and see what the GPU market looks like at that point...?
 

Irobot82

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Apr 21, 2012
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Ok, so planning out the initial cooling plan for my build, does the following look ok?

(Blue = Intake, Red = Exhaust)



A and B will be the default Silent Series R2 fans that come with the Define R4 case, C will be whatever I've got to hand (I have a ton of cheapy 120mm and 140mm fans around the house), and the H80i will use it's stock fans for now.

I'll run with my 3 HDD's in the bottom cage, top cage either removed or turned 90degrees.

Fan B is specifically to cool the HDD's, I've lost HDD's in the past to overheating when managed ducted airflow left them airflow restricted, not letting that happen again. Fan A to bring in cool air for chipset & GPU.

I'm hoping, for noise reduction reasons, to run A, B and C at 7v via the case fan controller, sound reasonable at 4.3Ghz?

Look good?
Nah, like this

 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
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Wall of shame (or fame if you want) from the last thread
I've never been on a wall of shame before! :D

OP-wise it looks great, but I don't know of any 7950s or 770s that fit in the FT03.
Max length is just 10 inches and while titan coolers are supposed to fit, but it must be one hell of a squeeze with a modified case when even the 680 needs to be squeezed in.
 

KillerAJD

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Dec 11, 2008
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Anybody have some good recommendations on Case/CPU heatsink fans? My 212 Plus fan is dying on me (I just bought the damn thing in March...), and I need a replacement. While I'm at it, I might as grab a second one for the other side. I also need some case fans. I need 3 120mm fans and 1 140mm fan. I know there is a difference in the needed specs between case/cooler fans (the cooler fans are supposed to be high volume, right?), I'm looking on Amazon (I have Prime), but I don't know where to start. I need stuff cheap, but obviously not so cheap that they die in three months(!!!)
 

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Jul 23, 2010
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How much clearance is there for the pipes over the DIMM's? Do they contact them at all?, are you not worried about heat from the DIMM's affecting the tubes?

It also looks like there's some tension in the pipes, was it a tight fit/stretch getting it into that position? (I'm surprised you didn't have the H80i the other way up, that looks like it would have given about another 1/2" to 1" of slack)

Has anyone seen or know of any authoritative testing for H80i placement?
 

CountertopTable

Neo Member
Jun 13, 2011
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The upgrade to a 7970 at that price with all those games seems like a good move from the 650ti....but dropping 300 bucks and then upgrading again in 3-4 months seems a little crazy to me. Unless you just have a lot of money or something, then it is fine I guess.

Couldn't you do the 7970 deal now...then get the better monitor in 3-4 months and stick with the 7970 for a while and see what the GPU market looks like at that point...?
I decided to just wait because in a couple weeks I should have the extra money to step up to the 780. Like you said it does not really make sense to upgrade now and then again in awhile.
 

RoKKeR

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Oct 17, 2012
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Testing out BF3 SP...

I knew something was up when I saw the blue rat. Got a bit of texture flickering and peaced the fuck right out of there. Lot of people saying that 320.18 is cause artifacting issues in BF3, and I'm just going to wait on that game until the new drivers are out.

The good news is that there was ZERO stuttering in SP, meaning I can confirm that the stuttering I'd been noticing was MP only, and was something I simply hadn't really noticed before.
 

Wallach

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Jun 26, 2008
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How much clearance is there for the pipes over the DIMM's? Do they contact them at all?, are you not worried about heat from the DIMM's affecting the tubes?

It also looks like there's some tension in the pipes, was it a tight fit/stretch getting it into that position? (I'm surprised you didn't have the H80i the other way up, that looks like it would have given about another 1/2" to 1" of slack)

Has anyone seen or know of any authoritative testing for H80i placement?
There's not going to be an authoritative answer for placing any fan without knowing the placement and direction of all other forces in the case.

What you don't want to have though is intake on both the front and back of the case because it will make it harder for air to travel up and out your sole exhaust.

If both your front fans are intake, then your back fan should be exhausting out of the case.
 

Diablos

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Jun 6, 2004
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Another question about the card I'm about to get: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127699

On the more expensive MSI GeForce cards it seems they are overvolting by way too much, making them unstable.

I don't think it applies to the model I'm getting. But generally speaking have you guys had a good experience with MSI branded GPU's? Should I be worried that they messed with mine too (even though it isn't one of the models mentioned in the article)? Anyone here actually using the card I want?
 

Addnan

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May 16, 2011
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Another question about the card I'm about to get: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127699

On the more expensive MSI GeForce cards it seems they are overvolting by way too much, making them unstable.

I don't think it applies to the model I'm getting. But generally speaking have you guys had a good experience with MSI branded GPU's? Should I be worried that they messed with mine too (even though it isn't one of the models mentioned in the article)? Anyone here actually using the card I want?
MSI is one of the good brands along with Giagbyte, Asus and the non reference EVGA for Nvidia cards.
 

Leeroy605

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May 22, 2012
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Hey guys, at the end of the last thread I was telling you about the problems I was having with my computer, and through a paper clip test we found out that my psu went bust. So today I've gone and got a new psu, did the paper clip test on that just to be sure and it's all good. However when I connect it to my computer the same problem occurs, the case and fans light up for a split second before dying. Is there some sort of fuse or switch on the motherboard itself that stops the computer being started after a psu goes? The board is an asus p8p67 le, thank you.
 

Wallach

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Jun 26, 2008
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Hey guys, at the end of the last thread I was telling you about the problems I was having with my computer, and through a paper clip test we found out that my psu went bust. So today I've gone and got a new psu, did the paper clip test on that just to be sure and it's all good. However when I connect it to my computer the same problem occurs, the case and fans light up for a split second before dying. Is there some sort of fuse or switch on the motherboard itself that stops the computer being started after a psu goes? The board is an asus p8p67 le, thank you.
Check the voltage selector on the back of the PSU.
 

Addnan

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May 16, 2011
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Then why were they overvolting those cards?
To get higher clocks? I think its against Nvidia rules, but don't know much beyond that, how bad it is and stuff. It would be covered by their warranty anyway.

Hey guys, at the end of the last thread I was telling you about the problems I was having with my computer, and through a paper clip test we found out that my psu went bust. So today I've gone and got a new psu, did the paper clip test on that just to be sure and it's all good. However when I connect it to my computer the same problem occurs, the case and fans light up for a split second before dying. Is there some sort of fuse or switch on the motherboard itself that stops the computer being started after a psu goes? The board is an asus p8p67 le, thank you.
What have you tried? Make sure everything is plugged in properly, PCIE, CPU and motherboard cables.

Your motherboard could be shorting out against the case, do you have all the stand offs correctly places?

Check the voltage selector on the back of the PSU.
Don't most half decent PSU come with autovoltage
 

gabbo

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Jun 25, 2011
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Hey guys, at the end of the last thread I was telling you about the problems I was having with my computer, and through a paper clip test we found out that my psu went bust. So today I've gone and got a new psu, did the paper clip test on that just to be sure and it's all good. However when I connect it to my computer the same problem occurs, the case and fans light up for a split second before dying. Is there some sort of fuse or switch on the motherboard itself that stops the computer being started after a psu goes? The board is an asus p8p67 le, thank you.
Possible to check with another computer?
Failing that, do as Wallach suggested
 

Irobot82

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Apr 21, 2012
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How much clearance is there for the pipes over the DIMM's? Do they contact them at all?, are you not worried about heat from the DIMM's affecting the tubes?

It also looks like there's some tension in the pipes, was it a tight fit/stretch getting it into that position? (I'm surprised you didn't have the H80i the other way up, that looks like it would have given about another 1/2" to 1" of slack)

Has anyone seen or know of any authoritative testing for H80i placement?
It doesn't touch the DIMMS, and it doesn't seem to get too hot. It has a little slack. You can add another empty fan cage to give you more room if you want, you'd just need even bigger screws. I thought about flipping the radiator but I wasn't sure if that would mean it's upside down and if it matters. If it doesn't affect anything maybe I will flip it to give me more room.
 
What should the maximum vcc voltage of a haswell i5-4670k be? I haven't figured how to unlock the cpu clock adjusting on the Z87 Mpower yet, so I was playing with the 'extreme' profile for oc genie 4. It set the cpu to 4.2 ghz. The voltage is at 1.2 and I noticed the vcc is all the way up to 1.7. Is that even safe?
 

vilmer_

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Nov 12, 2006
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The 900D's just came back in stock at ncix and I pulled the trigger. The delivery guy is going to hate me :lol
 

Acosta

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Jun 9, 2004
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This is the part I dislike about PC gaming, for some reason I always find some kind of weird problem.

Just built a new set based on Bitphoenix Prodigy (sexy!), went a bit overkill for components thinking in having a good base and changing GPU in two/three years:

PB SK-1155 ASUS P8H77-I mini-ITX Chipset H77
PCI-E ATI HD 7970 3GB GDRR5 Sapphire Ghz Edition
SSD 2.5 SATA3 240GB Kingston SH103S3/240G HyperX 3K
HDD 3.5 SATA 3.0 1TB WD WD1002FAEX Caviar Black 7200rp
2 DDR3 PC1600 8 GB KINGSTON HyperX blu
1 CPU LGA 1155 Intel Core Ivy i7-3770
PSU Aerocool Templarius Imperator 650w

A capable system I believe, I play on tv so 720p is good enough and I will jump to 1080p next year maybe.

I install everything, all new, Windows 8 64 bits. Looking good. Install Steam and go for Sleeping Dogs as my inauguration trip. Keep looking good, all at maximum, rock solid framerate, looks stunning, enjoy the first hours... the system resets.

Bios tell me something about a voltage protection, check forums and several sources indicate it´s a feature from Asus motherboards that can be ignored, so I deactivate it. Keep playing some hours, another reset. Check bios and check an option that seems to be OCing the GPU (not sure what it does), when I activate it the system automatically resets from bios, so I make sure it keeps deactivated. Some hours, another reset.

I open the box, the only part that is not new is a cable I used to connect the PSU to one of the ventilators, so I quit it. I rearrange the cables to be 100% sure none is touching the CPU fan (I had problems with this before).

Seems that did the trick, but this morning got another reset. However I saw that the system updated Windows, so I figured the OS forced the shutdown. I change the options to ask me before installing anything, install the rest of important updates and keep going, all perfect for three hours.

This afternoon I slept a bit and I left the game running to see if it kept stable, when I woke up the system had reset. Pissed off. I start again Sleeping Dogs, 5 hours playing and zero problems.

Crossing my fingers now. If I have another reset I'll try to change the drivers before I initiate the painful process of checking piece by piece what is causing the trouble, but I hope I don't need to because if it´s something so random that it can be working with no problem for five hours, is going to be a bitch to test.

Sleeping Dogs is great at least, glad I waited for the new computer, it looks spectacular.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Mar 22, 2007
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Hi guys,

Everything seems to be running fine. Thanks for your help, wouldn't have been able to do it without you or the OP.

Currently my graphics card is connected to four four-pronged cables coming from my graphics card:

I can use the cables that came with the power supply for a cleaner connection, right?

One issue is that I cannot connect the front fan to the mobo. The wire from the fan doesn't reach the mobo. It's just too short. Any way to get an extension cord of some sort?


Lastly, I have no idea what these are coming from the top of the case.

Got steam. Going to download some games!
 

Addnan

Member
May 16, 2011
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Are you using the molex converters on your graphics card. Don't do that. You power supply will have the PCIE cables coming straight from it.

edit: The ones with the blue end that goes into the PSU. http://i.imgur.com/e9cdTx4.jpg

I think thats your PSU. It will look similar.
 

bryan12112

Member
May 28, 2011
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It is possible that those particular fan headers are turned off in the BIOS. Worth a look
Awwwwww yeah. I figured it out. One of the connections came loose during shipping, I guess. One near the front of the case that I somehow overlooked during a quick inspection earlier today. I should be good to go now. But thank you for taking the time to help!
 

RoKKeR

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Oct 17, 2012
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UGH. Playing Tribes now, mad stuttering, framerate in the toilet...

I'm worried I did something to my CPU.
 

brentech

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Dec 11, 2008
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Hi guys,

Everything seems to be running fine. Thanks for your help, wouldn't have been able to do it without you or the OP.

Currently my graphics card is connected to four four-pronged cables coming from my graphics card:



I can use the cables that came with the power supply for a cleaner connection, right?

One issue is that I cannot connect the front fan to the mobo. The wire from the fan doesn't reach the mobo. It's just too short. Any way to get an extension cord of some sort?




Lastly, I have no idea what these are coming from the top of the case.



Got steam. Going to download some games!
Do not power that system on bud. As someone above states, you don't want that video card power setup you got.

The cables your asking about at the end are what you can plug the front fan into in order to get power. Those cables are the fan speed controller cables. 4 pin molex Wil supply power to all the small 3 pins (I believe they are 3 pin, might be 4,cant remember off the top of my head).

When using those, you can open the door on your case and in the top right you have a switch that goes between 12V, 7V, and 5V. Allows you to push the fans to the max or take them down a notch to lower noise level.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Mar 22, 2007
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Do not power that system on bud. As someone above states, you don't want that video card power setup you got.

The cables your asking about at the end are what you can plug the front fan into in order to get power. Those cables are the fan speed controller cables. 4 pin molex Wil supply power to all the small 3 pins (I believe they are 3 pin, might be 4,cant remember off the top of my head).
Those are the cables that came with the graphics card. I will switch them.

What about the front fan cable that connects to the mobo? I can't get it to reach.
 

Addnan

Member
May 16, 2011
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Those are the cables that came with the graphics card. I will switch them.

What about the front fan cable that connects to the mobo? I can't get it to reach.
Does it have a molex connector too? You can just use that if it doesn't reach a motherboard header.
 

silentQ

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Jan 25, 2007
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So my build is coming together I have the bit fenix prodigy, and the ASUS P8Z77-I motherboard, the case has 2 fans but the motherboard only has one chasis fan connector any clue what I should do here? May seem like a simple question but I am so close to having the build done at this point a bit frustrated lol.
 

Leeroy605

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May 22, 2012
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To get higher clocks? I think its against Nvidia rules, but don't know much beyond that, how bad it is and stuff. It would be covered by their warranty anyway.



What have you tried? Make sure everything is plugged in properly, PCIE, CPU and motherboard cables.

Your motherboard could be shorting out against the case, do you have all the stand offs correctly places?



Don't most half decent PSU come with autovoltage
Right think I've found the issue, when trying to diagnose the problem originally I took everything out the case and gave it a clean, thinking it may be dust related. The motherboard must have been shorting out against the case as I've just set the components up on a box out of the case with the new PSU and it works fine. Have to be more careful in future. Thanks for the help everyone you've been great!
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Mar 22, 2007
10,803
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The molex in the picture provides power to the 2 pin cables in that bunch. Those cables connect to the front fan. That's the fan controller I was talking about.
Oh, I see. lol, sorry totally new to this.
 

ombz

Member
Jul 10, 2009
605
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So my build is coming together I have the bit fenix prodigy, and the ASUS P8Z77-I motherboard, the case has 2 fans but the motherboard only has one chasis fan connector any clue what I should do here? May seem like a simple question but I am so close to having the build done at this point a bit frustrated lol.
You could connect it to the power supply directly. You should probably have an adapter included somewhere to connect the fan to a moles connector on the power supply. You'll have to buy a splitter if you want the fan on the motherboard
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Jan 21, 2008
32,249
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So my build is coming together I have the bit fenix prodigy, and the ASUS P8Z77-I motherboard, the case has 2 fans but the motherboard only has one chasis fan connector any clue what I should do here? May seem like a simple question but I am so close to having the build done at this point a bit frustrated lol.
Buy a splitter for your chassis fan connector.
Anybody have some good recommendations on Case/CPU heatsink fans? My 212 Plus fan is dying on me (I just bought the damn thing in March...), and I need a replacement. While I'm at it, I might as grab a second one for the other side. I also need some case fans. I need 3 120mm fans and 1 140mm fan. I know there is a difference in the needed specs between case/cooler fans (the cooler fans are supposed to be high volume, right?), I'm looking on Amazon (I have Prime), but I don't know where to start. I need stuff cheap, but obviously not so cheap that they die in three months(!!!)
Anything 2 Ball or Hydro Bearing wth PWM and that you like the looks/color of.
Check reviews for major problems. Any of the nicer $12-$15 fans should last your years without issue.

That said the Arctic PWM are one of the cheaper 120mm fans, and for 140mm you should splurge a bit (if you even need one).
Wall of shame (or fame if you want) from the last thread

I tried to get the UK bit revised before but no one took my suggestions on board ;_;

How often have we had someone come in here looking to upgrade, especially on a board like a B75? Hardly ever. Also why would you want to upgrade on a shitty B75 board and stick a great i5 K CPU in? That ain't logical. Same argument with FM2, it's not an ideal platform but when it comes to someone wanting to properly upgrade they'll do it a as whole.

With regards to the frame times posted, most are lets be honest within acceptable limits. The graphs can at times make them look terrible but that's more a factor of how good Intel is at this stage rather than how bad AMD is. You carried out your own work with regards to overclocking decreasing frame latencies on your 3570K, there is the chance that could happen too with the AMD stuff and all of their CPUs from the Athlon 750K to the FX 6300 can all overclock pretty easily to 4.x GHz.

Also too if CPU is going to matter less then going AMD at the low end isn't the worst idea. I'd also tie this into the point of upgrading CPUs, as they stagnate people aren't going to be bothered about upgrading if they're less important. i5 750s from 2009 still more than hold their own in most games with an overclock applied.
I need stuff in my inbox if you want things to be changed. Amazon UK updated in OP.

I can see a good argument for the G2020. But the i3 not nearly as much. If Steamdozer is good I can see it being replaced easily.
 

PoweredBySoy

Banned
Jun 5, 2009
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On my new MSI board I enabled their OC Genie, which put me at 4.0 for my 4670K - right about where I wanted it. Problem is, now the ratio never throttles down at idle, so it's always running at 100x40. Any thoughts as to why this is? Is it something I shouldn't leave as-is?

I didn't touch anything in BIOS, just enabled OC Genie.


EDIT: CPU-Z still has my multiplier listed as (8-40), it just never leaves x40.
 

InternHertz

Member
Feb 28, 2009
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Suppose I have a Fractal Design Define XL R2, which allows for 240mm radiators on the top and the front of the case.

Suppose I also have a watercooling kit like this : http://www.ekwb.com/shop/kits-cases/kits/ek-kit-h3o-240-hfx.html to which I added a GPU waterblock too. One loop, thus I cool both the CPU and the GPU.

What I'd hope to cool are one Intel i7-4770k (haswell) processor and a Nvidia GTX 770 4Go.

1a) Can only the included 240mm radiator handle the load?
or
1b) Can I get by with two 240mm radiators (placed IN the case then) to cool all this, or do I have to get longer radiators (360mm) and place them outside the case (gotta admit, I don't like that idea)?

2) Can the pump from the WC kit handle two rads or do I need a better/a second pump? In the case of a second pump, I guess that means two loops instead of just one?

I'm getting all my parts now and that's really the thing that makes me the most nervous...
 

Izick

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Sep 25, 2011
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Is this thread useful for general PC gaming discussion? I want to make a post about how I'm kind of thinking of dumping consoles in favor of PC's, but not sure if this is the appropriate thread to do so.
 

RoKKeR

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Oct 17, 2012
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Alright so, overclocking my CPU makes performance...worse.

After OC'ing to 4.4GHz, I get average 48fps on the Batman AC benchmark. After reverting to default clocks, 82fps.

That's...not good. Thoughts?
 

Epix

Member
Nov 1, 2007
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Alright so, overclocking my CPU makes performance...worse.

After OC'ing to 4.4GHz, I get average 48fps on the Batman AC benchmark. After reverting to default clocks, 82fps.

That's...not good. Thoughts?
You may have hit a temperature limit, causing things to get throttled back.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Feb 9, 2010
19,030
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Is this thread useful for general PC gaming discussion? I want to make a post about how I'm kind of thinking of dumping consoles in favor of PC's, but not sure if this is the appropriate thread to do so.
Yeah, that's no prob. There's another thread that has died down a bit that would be really good to post in though, which you can checkout here.
Alright so, overclocking my CPU makes performance...worse.

After OC'ing to 4.4GHz, I get average 48fps on the Batman AC benchmark. After reverting to default clocks, 82fps.

That's...not good. Thoughts?
Give us the stats! Need volts/temps. Programs that you should *always* have open when benching are CPU-Z and HWMonitor.
You may have hit a temperature limit, causing things to get throttled back.
Yeah, this or not enough power.
How often have we had someone come in here looking to upgrade, especially on a board like a B75? Hardly ever. Also why would you want to upgrade on a shitty B75 board and stick a great i5 K CPU in? That ain't logical. Same argument with FM2, it's not an ideal platform but when it comes to someone wanting to properly upgrade they'll do it a as whole.

With regards to the frame times posted, most are lets be honest within acceptable limits. The graphs can at times make them look terrible but that's more a factor of how good Intel is at this stage rather than how bad AMD is. You carried out your own work with regards to overclocking decreasing frame latencies on your 3570K, there is the chance that could happen too with the AMD stuff and all of their CPUs from the Athlon 750K to the FX 6300 can all overclock pretty easily to 4.x GHz.

Also too if CPU is going to matter less then going AMD at the low end isn't the worst idea. I'd also tie this into the point of upgrading CPUs, as they stagnate people aren't going to be bothered about upgrading if they're less important. i5 750s from 2009 still more than hold their own in most games with an overclock applied.
Well first off, the B75 would be an upgrade to an i3, not a K processor. The H77 would be an upgrade to an i5 (non-K) which can still be forced to ~4.0GHz via Turbo settings. With regards to OC'ing, you have a really good point.

What processor would you suggest to try out as a good i3 alternative?
 

Thorgal

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Jan 23, 2013
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wherever i hang my controller
So my nephew wants a new computer and he wanted to know something :
he was looking at the i7 for his next built and wanted to know what the difference is between a 3770 and a 3770k .
and wether the difference would matter in the end.
 

mkenyon

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Feb 9, 2010
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The difference is that the i7 is hyperthreaded. That means it takes each core and convinces the operating system that they are in fact two cores each. For applications that are 'n threaded', meaning that they can use any number of threads the CPU has, this means extra performance.

For games, it means literally nothing.
 
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