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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 2. Haswell = #IntelnoTIM, but free online. READ THE OP.
- Thread starter Hazaro
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cartman414
Member
When is the question, as is whether or not Intel can be bothered to trickle 6 core parts down into the mainstream segment by then.
Some of us on this board are stuck with measly DSL.
187 KB down/ 48 KB up
amurrica
If AMD catches up, definitely.
Photo taken from EK Waterblocks' PDF installation for one of their WC kits.
According to them, it's the optimal way to make your loop, but of course that doesn't take into account a second radiator nor a GPU block.
I added four green letters to ease the explanations. Between which letters is it optimal to add the GPU block and a second radiator?
I'm pretty sure that makes like no difference because the water temp is basically the same everywhere which is why when you put GPUs and CPUs under water it is common to go from CPU to GPU 1 to GPU 1+n...
I think temp difference before and after radiator is less than one degree because the water is flowing so quickly.
cartman414
Member
I would recommend the Samsung 840 Pro.
Plextor is a great SSD too although if you're paying the same price, then go for the Samsung.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Yeah, there's a £30 difference in price between the 840 Pro and the M5S.
I'm already over budget tbh, otherwise I'd stretch further, but there's a point where stretching your budget has to stop, I'm already past that point
Price / Performance wise it's a toss-up between the M5S 128GB and Crucials M500 120GB
Another question for Define R4 / SSD owners, any heat concerns with using the SSD mounts on the back of the motherboard tray?
I'm already over budget tbh, otherwise I'd stretch further, but there's a point where stretching your budget has to stop, I'm already past that point
Price / Performance wise it's a toss-up between the M5S 128GB and Crucials M500 120GB
Another question for Define R4 / SSD owners, any heat concerns with using the SSD mounts on the back of the motherboard tray?
They're cheap.
Depends on how you look at it.
In the end, just look for the fan design (size + #) and heatsink type.
I haven't used one since 9600GT so no personal experience, but many on here have said the noise/heat can sometimes be worse than reference. Just go with MSI or Sapphire for AMD.
It's not just the number of fans that affect cooling factors. For example, if I have a cooling setup with a bunch of tiny fans vs. one large fan, I will pick the large fan every time. Two large fans will beat the one large config.
What cards are you comparing?
None in particular. There's just sometimes cards with 3 fans and some with 1 fan, and a shroud design to boot. At the moment though, I'd only want to prove my bf wrong about XFX being one of the best brands, unless I'm wrong
Yeah, there's a £30 difference in price between the 840 Pro and the M5S.
I'm already over budget tbh, otherwise I'd stretch further, but there's a point where stretching your budget has to stop, I'm already past that point
Price / Performance wise it's a toss-up between the M5S 128GB and Crucials M500 120GB
Another question for Define R4 / SSD owners, any heat concerns with using the SSD mounts on the back of the motherboard tray?
SSDs produce like no heat and motherboards aren't very hot. SSDs and even HDDs are placed right next to the CPU in laptops with no airflow. Used a laptop this week that was 50C on the outside near the HDD. A great hand warmer
Only time I've heard about an SSD overheating was Anandtech's review of the Intel NUC with an SSD right over the network card.
They have some bad coolers. Their 7970 dual fan cooler was laughed at for being noisier than the reference cooler. Fans aren't everything, good heatsinks that spread the heat out well are also important.
IcyRhythms
Member
I'm in the market for a new computer chair.
Anyone recommend one under $150?
Anyone recommend one under $150?
ss_lemonade
Member
Isn't xfx the ones with a 7970 that did worse than reference coolers?
You'd probably see lower temps, but the two stock fans are enough for regular rigs with one open GPU and an overclocked CPU. It would be an extra place for dust to get in.
[PERFORMANCE MICE]
These are intended for competitive gamers. Speed, accuracy, and sensor customization is valued above all.
Xornet is great for the price, but the Spawn has a better sensor. Both are designed for claw and hybrid grips. If you absolutely love the MX518 shape, then the G400S is a good choice. Customization on Sensei is unparalleled, combined with low weight and ambi shape that allows for any grip type makes for the best mouse.
[ERGONOMIC AND MMO MICE]
For those that value comfort and extra buttons over a precise sensor.
The Recon has the best sensor and firmware here, and is a great value. The M65 has amazing build quality and an aluminum frame, and it's a great choice if you have larger hands. The M95's side button layout is the best of the MMO oriented mice. G700s is the only wireless mouse listed here, and the extra buttons are helpful.
[PADS]
For most people, any cheap Alsopp cloth pad will be fine. These are some options if you are out for something a bit more.
The Ripper XXL is massive, allowing a seamless mousing surface.The CM Storm Control RX is a thicker hybrid design with a lycra surface allowing for easier gliding movements, and is best suited for low CPI/DPI. The CM Storm Power RX is a large textured surface allowing for good control without destroying mouse feet. The Artisan Shiden is a glass coated cloth pad that defies the typical trade-off between textured and smooth surfaces, as it has great control and allows for smooth whips.
None in particular. There's just sometimes cards with 3 fans and some with 1 fan, and a shroud design to boot. At the moment though, I'd only want to prove my bf wrong about XFX being one of the best brands, unless I'm wrong
I don't really have a best brand in my book as I tend to look at components and design before making a purchase.
I have bought XFX low power stuff, and they have held up. I don't know about the components for the high-powered cards.
Best brand sounds like hyperbole.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Motherboards in general are not very hot, but if you want a shock take a temp sensor to the back of the motherboard where the CPU socket is, that area gets very hot, a lot of heat from the core is dealt with by the HS/F solution, but a lot is also dissipated through the back of the board. (Enough to discolor some cases). The reason for me asking is that the SSD mounting position on the back of this tray seems close to the rear of the CPU, I'm not worried about damage due to heat from my SSD, but rather to the SSD.,
Correct.
Coolant/fluid temperature stays nearly uniform. Rather than worrying about what part goes where, you will have better results by having the most simple loop with the least amount of tubing, as this will increase flow rates.
I'm guessing it will vary by game.
I imagine the first well designed games to choke on 4 core Intel CPUs will be large open world games that use CPUs heavily for things like NPCs, AI, etc. Even then the 4 core CPU may run fine at console settings, but as soon as you jack up settings like NPC/effect distance the engine will expect a scaled up CPU to keep up.
Quick ports...."don't turn off your PC" while saving kind of ports will be the first. Then again sometimes those never run good no matter how fast the PC.
I borrowed my 9800 GT eco from my dead Intel LGA 775 build and put it in my build with an i5-3350p. Yes I know it's not top of the line, but I always build with budget and power consumption in mind.
A lot of games that struggled before in certain particle effects/areas now run a lot smoother on a quad core.
I'm planning to purchase probably a 7850 in the near future.
Hm.
Hopefully a good deal comes around soon.
A lot of games that struggled before in certain particle effects/areas now run a lot smoother on a quad core.
I'm planning to purchase probably a 7850 in the near future.
Hm.
Hopefully a good deal comes around soon.
Gigabyte Website said:
Good job I ordered the 750w PSU, as opposed to going for a lower one... Really should have checked the website before ordering!
Which drivers should I be getting for my GTX 770? The latest ones on the Gigabyte website are 320.08, but having Googled some people seem to be having some issues with them.
So yeah, 320.18 officially fucked BF3. Can't even get a stable 60fps online on Low settings, and this is with a GTX 770 and an i5 2500k 4.4GHz. Hopefully the next drivers sort out whatever issues they are having, because I've found that BF3 is the one game that has had very poor performance.
The Henery
Member
So, I got the PC sorted out and purchased. Now I need to decide on a monitor. I need UK PC gaf's recommendations. I want to spend between £100 and £140. At least 22 inch. I'm looking for minimal input lag/response time. Want to play my Xbox on it too. I don't know the term for it but when you turn it, it still displays up until a certain degree. I specify UK because often I'm recommended models that are only sold in the States.
This looked nice http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004T2LMP2/
Somebody was recommending an LG IPS monitor the other day for £100.
Any other ideas guys?
This looked nice http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004T2LMP2/
Somebody was recommending an LG IPS monitor the other day for £100.
Any other ideas guys?
Yep, I freaked out in that game today. Go into a mutlplayer game, no textures were loading.
charlequin
Banned
Other thing that I thought of about my new build: holy crap is it quiet. I've got nine total fans going in that thing (two R4 stock case fans, two Gentle Typhoons, one on the mobo, three on the GPU, one on the PSU) but when I booted it up yesterday and commented on how quiet it was my wife said "...oh. Is it on now?" Love the R4.
I hope so! I figure I can upgrade the GPU in 2-3 years depending on how stuff shakes out with next-gen but I can't imagine I won't be able to run all the new console games pretty well for at least a while.
I'm excited though! Time to catch up on a shitload of FPSes....
The first time you get an SSD is the single greatest upgrade you'll ever make to a PC, while 8 -> 16 gigs of RAM is basically irrelevant for gaming purposes.
Comes with paste. Sadly when I did my build (after hours at my office) I just used this paste, only to notice about an hour later that there was a tube of Arctic Silver sitting in the workbench room. Ah well....
The guy who helped me put together my build said so (though I eventually put a fan in there anyway) but that struck me as weird advice. Far and away most of the airflow is going to be through the fans.
I hope so! I figure I can upgrade the GPU in 2-3 years depending on how stuff shakes out with next-gen but I can't imagine I won't be able to run all the new console games pretty well for at least a while.
I'm excited though! Time to catch up on a shitload of FPSes....
It'll mean a downgrade from 16GB to 8GB ram, but going on the basis that GFX / RAM are easier upgrades to make later I don't think I can resist!
The first time you get an SSD is the single greatest upgrade you'll ever make to a PC, while 8 -> 16 gigs of RAM is basically irrelevant for gaming purposes.
Comes with paste. Sadly when I did my build (after hours at my office) I just used this paste, only to notice about an hour later that there was a tube of Arctic Silver sitting in the workbench room. Ah well....
The guy who helped me put together my build said so (though I eventually put a fan in there anyway) but that struck me as weird advice. Far and away most of the airflow is going to be through the fans.
Sorry for focusing about the SSD's heat output, but isn't it fitted to the metal panel behind the mobo? I don't see how it could go much above 40 unless you have an old MSI board with an FX chip. Silverstone even thinks you can put two to three 3.5 inch drives there (SG09, SG10 and FT03)
I haven't used my IR thermometer (best invention ever) on the rear of mobos, but the left panel on my FT03 mini at least is close (can't be removed easily) to the Z77 mobo and made of aluminium and was 32C when gaming. Think the IO shield has been like 40. It's an ITX board, but you could check how hot the rear of your mobo is during Prime95.
Photo taken from EK Waterblocks' PDF installation for one of their WC kits.
According to them, it's the optimal way to make your loop, but of course that doesn't take into account a second radiator nor a GPU block.
I added four green letters to ease the explanations. Between which letters is it optimal to add the GPU block and a second radiator?
Just go with the shortest possible route for the tubing and make sure the res is both placed higher than the pump and at the inlet. Otherwise your load temps will not be affected since water temperature doesn't change a lot between components once thermal equilibrium is established.
[PERFORMANCE MICE]These are intended for competitive gamers. Speed, accuracy, and sensor customization is valued above all.
Xornet is great for the price, but the Spawn has a better sensor. Both are designed for claw and hybrid grips. If you absolutely love the MX518 shape, then the G400S is a good choice. Customization on Sensei is unparalleled, combined with low weight and ambi shape that allows for any grip type makes for the best mouse.
$30 - CM Storm Xornet . . .$40 - CM Storm Spawn$60 - Logitech G400S$60 - SteelSeries Sensei RAW
[ERGONOMIC AND MMO MICE]For those that value comfort and extra buttons over a precise sensor.
The Recon has the best sensor and firmware here, and is a great value. The M65 has amazing build quality and an aluminum frame, and it's a great choice if you have larger hands. G700 is the only wireless mouse listed here, and the extra buttons are helpful. The M95's side button layout is the best of the MMO oriented mice.
$35 - CM Storm Recon . .$60 - Corsair M65 . . . . .$80 - Logitech G700 . .$80 - Corsair M95
[PADS]For most people, any cheap Alsopp cloth pad will be fine. These are some options if you are out for something a bit more.
The Ripper XXL is massive, allowing a seamless mousing surface.The CM Storm Control RX is a thicker hybrid design with a lycra surface allowing for easier gliding movements, and is best suited for low CPI/DPI. The CM Storm Power RX is a large textured surface allowing for good control without destroying mouse feet. The Artisan Shiden is a glass coated cloth pad that defies the typical trade-off between textured and smooth surfaces, as it has great control and allows for smooth whips.
$20 - XTrac Ripper XXL$30 - CM Control-RX . . . .$35 - CM Power-RX . .$40-50 - Artisan Shiden L or XL
Also, maybe we should have a section for setting up your PC beyond just SSD. Monitor calibration, mouse acceleration, etc?
For those of you that are afraid of overclocking, some perspective:
I have built over 30 PCs for work. Apps that are very single core IPC bottlenecked that take hours. Computer clusters/clouds and server hardware runs lower clocked Xeons, so overclocking lots of 4 core CPUs is the way to go. This approach is also tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands cheaper (cloud computing is stupid slow AND expensive).
Of those 30 PCs, not a single one has failed over nearly 2.5 years. Just 1 has had an OC limit decay to 4.2 GHz, but I can probably up it back to 4.4-4.5 with some mobo tweaks. The OC offset voltage used for that was very tiny.
Also the CPU lottery is real. I have come across a couple of Ivy Bridge CPUs that simply won't get beyond 4.3 GHz stable even at 1.35 V with cooling that keeps it under 80 C at load. Others that get to 4.6 GHz at 1.22V.
I have built over 30 PCs for work. Apps that are very single core IPC bottlenecked that take hours. Computer clusters/clouds and server hardware runs lower clocked Xeons, so overclocking lots of 4 core CPUs is the way to go. This approach is also tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands cheaper (cloud computing is stupid slow AND expensive).
Of those 30 PCs, not a single one has failed over nearly 2.5 years. Just 1 has had an OC limit decay to 4.2 GHz, but I can probably up it back to 4.4-4.5 with some mobo tweaks. The OC offset voltage used for that was very tiny.
Also the CPU lottery is real. I have come across a couple of Ivy Bridge CPUs that simply won't get beyond 4.3 GHz stable even at 1.35 V with cooling that keeps it under 80 C at load. Others that get to 4.6 GHz at 1.22V.
320.18 are the latest drivers and they work, most of the time. Some games like BF3/AC3 are completely broken and occasionally you may have an issue on the desktop/browers where the driver crashes. New drivers should be out in the next few days if not sooner.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Agreed, I OC'd my i5-750 the same day I got it to 3.0Ghz (166Mhz Base clock x 18 Multi @ stock Vcore) and it's been running without problem for over 3 years.
It is a good idea to get an understanding of what your doing, check your temps and stability, and if you do this during the winter check again during the summer
- But it's not hard to grasp, and not really some voodoo beyond most users.Agreed, I OC'd my i5-750 the same day I got it to 3.0Ghz (166Mhz Base clock x 18 Multi @ stock Vcore) and it's been running without problem for over 3 years.
It is a good idea to get an understanding of what your doing, check your temps and stability, and if you do this during the winter check again during the summer
I've never had a CPU go bad, even the one time I forgot to power the cooler pump (CPU throttled to stay below 100 C, made BIOS look like an image downloading on 56K modem).
But what to watch out for:
1. Bad RAM. I've had at least a half a dozen sticks of RAM go bad. A couple of times months after building the PC.
2. Crappy BIOS failing to boot with bad settings. Know how to clear CMOS.
Some motherboards offer it, but generally no. It's not something that can be programmed, because every chip is different.
It's really easy too.
RukusProvider
Banned
Anything more powerful than Titan expected before the end of the year?
My rig:
2600k at 4.8ghz
8GB RAM
Crucial M4 SSD
580GTX
Dell 3008WFP (2560x1600)
I'm thinking of just replacing the 580GTX with a Titan. Will the rest of my system be capable enough to not bottleneck the Titan?
My rig:
2600k at 4.8ghz
8GB RAM
Crucial M4 SSD
580GTX
Dell 3008WFP (2560x1600)
I'm thinking of just replacing the 580GTX with a Titan. Will the rest of my system be capable enough to not bottleneck the Titan?
Horse Armour
Member
Apparently IVB-E is soldered like Sandy Bridge:
IVB-E= #IntelSolder
IVB-E= #IntelSolder
Maybe the 8970/9970 (whichever they end up calling it).
Your Titan will be slightly bottlenecked by PCI-E 2.0 bandwidth, but we're talking 1-3% last I checked.
Yeah, there's no way they would do TIM on an enthusiast chip. People still have some weird holdup towards socket 2011 though. It's beyond me.
Horse Armour
Member
Lol. Tell that to the guy who's picture that is. He destroyed his CPU trying to delid it because he was convinced that Intel wouldn't switch back to solder.
Alright, I'll keep it closed. I added an extra intake fan in front and an exhaust fan on top anyway so I think that's sufficient.
I'm pretty much ready to pull the trigger and purchase the parts for my new build. It's nothing special, mostly just taking parts from the Best Value and Enthusiast builds in the OP. Current planned build:
CPU: i7 3770K
Heatsink: CM 212 EVO
Mobo: Asus Maximus V Gene
RAM: 2x4GB DDR3-1866. (Specifically, G.Skill Sniper.)
SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB
HDD: WD Blue 1TB
PSU: BP550 Plus
Optical Drive: whatever, standard CD/DVD readwriter.
Parts being transferred from my current build:
GPU: GTX 570
Case: Antec P280 Black
I'll be upgrading the GPU in the next year or two, most likely.
I do have a few concerns though.
Edit: Forgot to mention, I will be trying to overclock.
CPU: i7 3770K
Heatsink: CM 212 EVO
Mobo: Asus Maximus V Gene
RAM: 2x4GB DDR3-1866. (Specifically, G.Skill Sniper.)
SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB
HDD: WD Blue 1TB
PSU: BP550 Plus
Optical Drive: whatever, standard CD/DVD readwriter.
Parts being transferred from my current build:
GPU: GTX 570
Case: Antec P280 Black
I'll be upgrading the GPU in the next year or two, most likely.
I do have a few concerns though.
- My case is huge. The PSU sits at the bottom of the case. The connector for CPU power on the mobo is at the very top of the case. How long are the cables for the BP550 Plus? Will I need to get extension cables, and if so would they cause any problems? I want to thread the cables underneath the mobo as well, which I couldn't do with my current PSU due to the short cable lengths.
- The PSU can handle any GPU up to 250W according to the OP. I will only upgrade the GPU to single core, single card set ups. (No SLI, no GTX 690-esque SLI-on-one-card things.) Are there any single core, single card GPUs that exceed 250W? Is it expected that any will come out in the coming years?
- I still have some Arctic Silver 5 that I used for my previous build. It's been sitting in a box for 4+ years now, doing nothing. Would there be any problems using it since it's so old?
Edit: Forgot to mention, I will be trying to overclock.
$$$ Probably. Although the i7 3820 is not that expensive the good 2011 mobos are quite expensive.
hemtae
Member
Damn, that's a really good deal and I don't really need to upgrade but I kinda want to right now.
Possibly the wrong place, but does anyone have an opinion on the Acer HN274Hbmiiid?
120Hz, 3D, on sale for £260. Had a quick look round and seen some reports of ghosting, but I'd prefer an opinion from here.
120Hz, 3D, on sale for £260. Had a quick look round and seen some reports of ghosting, but I'd prefer an opinion from here.
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