Seriously. That attitude of some Japanese companies is so sickening at this point.
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Idea Factory: The Devil of RPG Makers?
- Thread starter HGH
- Start date
Kresnik258
Member
I'm pretty sure NIS internally handled the Vita port which we got in the west.
Though, I still don't see what that has to do with Idea Factory.
I've only played 1 Neptunia game, Generations of Chaos, and the first Records of the Agarest War. They were alright, nothing else to really say about them. I do wish more companies would embrace the PC and as well as IF seem to have.
Someone in this very thread has said they'd rather put their hand through a wood chipper than play their games
. So I am sure someone somewhere has said that.
I don't play IF or CH games; but, has someone has actually say this?
Someone in this very thread has said they'd rather put their hand through a wood chipper than play their games
I'd love to see it
Gunstar Ikari
Unconfirmed Member
It's like Sonic where people have made up in their minds that the games will always be garbage and won't hear otherwise.
To be fair, the fanservice is an issue. It's usually jiggling breasts on a handful of otherwise-still images in Neptunia, which is groan-worthy but nothing too terrible. But for every game with mild-to-moderate fanservice, there's stuff like Mugen Souls/Mugen Souls Z with their multiple hot tub scenes, censored-out scrubbing minigames, and borderline-hentai capture scenes involving girls of all "physical" ages. It's those kinds of things that can sour a person's opinion on what basically amounts to a 6/10 RPG. (Edit: Speaking in general, the first Mugen Souls sucks.)
To be fair, the fanservice is an issue. It's usually jiggling breasts on a handful of otherwise-still images in Neptunia, which is groan-worthy but nothing too terrible. But for every game with mild-to-moderate fanservice, there's stuff like Mugen Souls/Mugen Souls Z with their multiple hot tub scenes, censored-out scrubbing minigames, and borderline-hentai capture scenes involving girls of all "physical" ages. It's those kinds of things that can sour a person's opinion on what basically amounts to a 6/10 RPG. (Edit: Speaking in general, the first Mugen Souls sucks.)
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
They have the former ZHP/Disgaea A-team so I'm looking forward to their output more. Makai Shin Trillion will be their first game I buy that I'm legit excited for.
I gave Neptunia 1 a chance and it uh... well, it wasn't for me.
But I wouldn't call them the devil of RPG makers. If it sells, it sells; I've long resigned to the fact that even if I consider their games unforgivably bland and boring, I won't be the one that convinces people not to buy them.
And I echo the praises they have for international support. Other Japanese companies could stand to learn from them in that regard...
But I wouldn't call them the devil of RPG makers. If it sells, it sells; I've long resigned to the fact that even if I consider their games unforgivably bland and boring, I won't be the one that convinces people not to buy them.
And I echo the praises they have for international support. Other Japanese companies could stand to learn from them in that regard...
Alboreo
Member
Well, I really enjoy the Neptunia games- they're ridiculous, but they're fun and pretty hilarious. I find them to be good time wasters when I'm not looking for anything serious.
I haven't played enough of their other games to say for sure, but I will say that the quality of their games isn't very high- that is, they are clearly low budget and they definitely do pander to a specific market.
In other words, while I don't necessarily agree with all of the hate, I definitely see why people compare other JRPGs to theirs and consider it to be a negative thing.
I haven't played enough of their other games to say for sure, but I will say that the quality of their games isn't very high- that is, they are clearly low budget and they definitely do pander to a specific market.
In other words, while I don't necessarily agree with all of the hate, I definitely see why people compare other JRPGs to theirs and consider it to be a negative thing.
R_thanatos
Member
Answer : No
Idea factory work on the neptunia series is fantastic. It's not for everyone, but they don't try to make the games for everyone. I think they are doing too much ( games at once ) .
But they are fine ... i think it's ok that they stick to what they want to make
Idea factory work on the neptunia series is fantastic. It's not for everyone, but they don't try to make the games for everyone. I think they are doing too much ( games at once ) .
But they are fine ... i think it's ok that they stick to what they want to make
dwr
Member
bobawesome
Member
I've put a few hours into Neptunia Re;Birth1 and Monster Monpiece and I have to say they're pretty fun. Going by what most of GAF thinks about them, you'd think they were soulless monstrosities that barely function.
BuckRobotron
Member
I quite enjoy these games, only having gotten into them in the past year largely due to Steam for Rebirth and following that some stuff on Vita. The Neptunia games are colorful fun rpgs and I have finally dug in to Record of Agarest War (that was sitting on the Steam virtual shelf for a while).
Agarest starts getting pretty challenging 2/3 in (
...) and I won't pretend to dislike fanservice. If only it had English va like Neptunia, oh well. Will certainly be continuing with both series.
Agarest starts getting pretty challenging 2/3 in (
Midas
Delusibeta
Banned
People on the internet have a hard time realising that zero-sum gains are extremely rare to the point where they might as well not exist. For example, the continued existence of Idea Factory isn't detracting from Square Enix/Konami/Capcom/Sega's ability to make JRPGs, despite popular opinion. Also, I suspect people saying Fire Emblem's reputation has been damaged has no idea what they're talking about.
Strangelove77
Member
Devil is kind of harsh. I'd say Idea Factory/Compile Heart are like the LJN of jrpgs.
Just some terrible shit.
And honestly, their subject matter or art style don't bug me as much as most, but to me RPGs are all about story and the battle system, two things these games tend to not do well. So I assume people like the art style and music and everything, which is fine. Just not for me.
Just some terrible shit.
And honestly, their subject matter or art style don't bug me as much as most, but to me RPGs are all about story and the battle system, two things these games tend to not do well. So I assume people like the art style and music and everything, which is fine. Just not for me.
I love most of their stuff, and the fact that they actually localize nearly everything they make and in a somewhat reasonable timeframe, unlike some of the bigger RPG publishers like Square Enix. The hate they gate is excessive and usually from people who've never played any of their games, or only played the first Neptune game (which was legitimately bad in terms of gameplay), but they've steadily improved since then and are pretty good now. They actually make tons of stuff aimed at girls, too with their Otomate line but most people don't know about that and assume they only cater to men.
cj_iwakura
Member
I'm one of their biggest detractors and I'm very aware of their otome games, since I feel it's all they're good at.
That's perfectly fine, I know their style isn't for everyone but I'm just saying most people aren't aware that they make stuff for girls as well.
mgs2master2
Banned
This is the internet, everything is blown out of proportions.
Personally I love most of the Idea Factory/Compile Heart games and I will keep buying them cause I really enjoy them, when someone says otherwise:
this is pretty much me in generally. Getting my Hyperdimension neptunia rebirth 3 tomorrow \o/
Shouta
Member
Their business regiment is pretty admirable because they've kept themselves around for so long and doing this stuff when other studios have folded under similar conditions.
There's no way I'd ever recommend one of their games though. Their output has always been bad but now they've found a niche that they can really sink their teeth into without having to do the extra work necessary to make really stellar games.
I do find it funny that they're a good example of how pervasive the pandering has gotten in Japanese games and anime. Their output during the PS2 era could have wider appeal (if the games weren't shitty), but a lot of their current stuff pretty much only appeals to a specific audience.
There's no way I'd ever recommend one of their games though. Their output has always been bad but now they've found a niche that they can really sink their teeth into without having to do the extra work necessary to make really stellar games.
I do find it funny that they're a good example of how pervasive the pandering has gotten in Japanese games and anime. Their output during the PS2 era could have wider appeal (if the games weren't shitty), but a lot of their current stuff pretty much only appeals to a specific audience.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Their games may not be the best but they are pretty forward thinking if you ask me. They localize their games faster than most Japanese publishers and have even started doing it themselves with Idea Factory International. Also a lot of they're games have have been ported to Steam and they're one of the first Japanese publishers to release a Current Gen only game. They also consistantly localize games for the Vita, which may e a small market, but they have very little conpetition. The localization quality of their games are really good too and is probably taken into budget considerations from the start of developement since they are an International publisher. They may not be the greatest publisher, but they're pretty smart if you ask me.
ShinMaruku
Member
I would say EA and blizzard are the devil. If you want to take shots at something about jrpgs blame SquareEnix or better yet blame the Japanese economy and the old ass government. Never blame a smartly run business using a profitable niche. That is more healthy than trying to appeal to everybody in bloated head up ass games.
Kresnik258
Member
This thread made me think about how much their output has shifted over the last few years, idd.
Last new tactical RPG they put out was Generation of Chaos: Pandora's Reflection in 2012 on the PSP. Before that was... Agarest Zero in 2011?
That genre seemed to make up the majority of their output in the late PS2/early PS3 time though.
I wonder if they're done with brands like those now they have Neptunia to milk and games-like-Neptunia to be made under Compile Heart, while they focus Idea Factory itself on Otome.
MichaelFassbender
Member
That was me. You willing to provide the woodchipper?
Of course. I can rent one for a very reasonable price, but you aren't going to do it so there is no reason too.
MichaelFassbender
Member
Son, I need to make sure that woodchipper is of finest quality. How do I know you're not going to screw me on the make & model?
We need to set some ground rules here. I'm losing a hand for Christ's sake!
Holy Order Sol
Member
I played the first Hyperdimension Neptunia game on Steam for about 20 hours and thought it was hilarious. I might get back to it at some point, and if that's how the rest of their games are like I'll probably enjoy them too.
I'm like 99% sure, that shit game argument always is brought into the light of day when low budget games are in question. You don't even know how many times I've heard that Atelier games are shit, while Mana Khemia is on my all time best games list, pretty high too.
It's no secret that most people prefer high budget games, that's why these games have high budgets. But how do you get that high budget to begin with, unless you already had successful games and got rich, you start from small budgets and go from there. That's what Gust do, that's what IF do. Arguably Gust games got worse when they were bought, at least I think so, but they are still good games, but we talk about IF here. So lemme tell you my story.
I was reading and hearing constantly how bad IF games are, how shit and all that, to the point that I got curious and bought Cross Edge, it was my first IF game, one that nobody even played or talks unless it gets mentioned like one of those "terrible games everybody should stay away from". And oh boy what a surprise it turned to be. It's one of my most played games. It has probably the best, or one of the best combat systems I ever encountered in any game. It looks and feels awfully cheap, with recycling pretty much everything many times over. But it is fun to play, as I said has one of the best combo based combat systems ever and amazing post game stuff after the true ending, which if it would be in more popular game, would be the stuff of legends, but as it is in Cross Edge, nobody knows or cares.
After that I've played many IF games, some are better than others, but none that I've played were horrible, plus they are improving all the time, they are getting better and better. Not to mention that they can have all female cast and not give a damn that "female protagonists don't sell". I think even budgets of their games are slowly rising.
So no, they are not devil, they are just doing what they can with what they have.
about fanservise: Nep Nep is comedy-parody-silly series, they are good at what they are and they are fun to play, they are nowhere near so fanservisy as many people imagine.
I'm not a fan of fanservice, inspite of being Gust fan, I plain hated Ar tonelico Qoga, you see, that's fanservice for the sake of being fanservice and not what IF games are, or most of them anyway, I haven't played all.
In short IF is not a devil, not a saviour either but they might become one or another one day, That day is far away though.
It's no secret that most people prefer high budget games, that's why these games have high budgets. But how do you get that high budget to begin with, unless you already had successful games and got rich, you start from small budgets and go from there. That's what Gust do, that's what IF do. Arguably Gust games got worse when they were bought, at least I think so, but they are still good games, but we talk about IF here. So lemme tell you my story.
I was reading and hearing constantly how bad IF games are, how shit and all that, to the point that I got curious and bought Cross Edge, it was my first IF game, one that nobody even played or talks unless it gets mentioned like one of those "terrible games everybody should stay away from". And oh boy what a surprise it turned to be. It's one of my most played games. It has probably the best, or one of the best combat systems I ever encountered in any game. It looks and feels awfully cheap, with recycling pretty much everything many times over. But it is fun to play, as I said has one of the best combo based combat systems ever and amazing post game stuff after the true ending, which if it would be in more popular game, would be the stuff of legends, but as it is in Cross Edge, nobody knows or cares.
After that I've played many IF games, some are better than others, but none that I've played were horrible, plus they are improving all the time, they are getting better and better. Not to mention that they can have all female cast and not give a damn that "female protagonists don't sell". I think even budgets of their games are slowly rising.
So no, they are not devil, they are just doing what they can with what they have.
about fanservise: Nep Nep is comedy-parody-silly series, they are good at what they are and they are fun to play, they are nowhere near so fanservisy as many people imagine.
I'm not a fan of fanservice, inspite of being Gust fan, I plain hated Ar tonelico Qoga, you see, that's fanservice for the sake of being fanservice and not what IF games are, or most of them anyway, I haven't played all.
In short IF is not a devil, not a saviour either but they might become one or another one day, That day is far away though.
I totally get not caring for IF or CH games, especially with the gender imbalance in this industry, but I do think the genre is damaged a lot more by hand holding RPGs like Costume Quest that are just soulless interpretations of the genre.
JRPGs are supposed to be epic, silly, crazy and random, but challenging enough to be engaging. Games like WoW and CQ that are designed to make them accessible to everyone while removing challenge and complexity are bigger nightmares IMO.
JRPGs are supposed to be epic, silly, crazy and random, but challenging enough to be engaging. Games like WoW and CQ that are designed to make them accessible to everyone while removing challenge and complexity are bigger nightmares IMO.
Wonko_C
Member
Sorry if this sounds like a derail but I got really excited when the OP mentioned IF owns all of Compile's IPs so maybe they'll do a sequel to Guardian Legend one day. I mean that game already starred a cute robot-ship girl in a bikini, so it's primed and ready for a revival. They could add lots of customization options with extra costumes, accessories and stuff. I don't know if they have experienced STG programmers with them, though. Fanservice or no, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
It is always apparent when you see people call out IF/CH games on being "shit" that the people have never actually played any recent output and have been parroting opinions that they've heard on the internet, almost /v/-esque if you think about it. If you think their games are of poor quality, that is an opinion you can have, but they have easily become "most improved" in my book for the quality of their games. If you are "offended" by some fan service and titillation, grow up and take your prudish attitude to a church or something.
Devils are companies that are actively harming the industry, with shit like Season passes, Day 1 patches for broken games, DRM, and the myriad of other anti-consumer practices. IF/CH hasn't really had any serious issue with that and their ports to the PC have been top notch in an industry where the biggest Japanese dev has incredible issues releasing a stable and not fucked up PC port of their venerated franchise.
Also Fire Emblem has always been copying the artstyle of popular anime of the time. If you are mad at the artstyle of FE then blame the current trend of anime, not IF/CH because judging by the sales, they sure as hell ain't influencing no one.
Devils are companies that are actively harming the industry, with shit like Season passes, Day 1 patches for broken games, DRM, and the myriad of other anti-consumer practices. IF/CH hasn't really had any serious issue with that and their ports to the PC have been top notch in an industry where the biggest Japanese dev has incredible issues releasing a stable and not fucked up PC port of their venerated franchise.
Also Fire Emblem has always been copying the artstyle of popular anime of the time. If you are mad at the artstyle of FE then blame the current trend of anime, not IF/CH because judging by the sales, they sure as hell ain't influencing no one.
Elaugaufein
Member
Most recent tactical RPG (if you're counting Agarest style) is Hyperdevotion Noire, earlier this year (last year if you're doing Japanese releases). But yeah they are doing a lot less of them.Not sure if its a conscious decision to move away from them or if its just a matter of the Rebirth games, Neptunia Spinoffs, PS4 development and IFI launch sucking up all their resources.
Their games are usually a hit/miss with me as well.
But I still buy them because it feels like they are trying to grow the audience and improving their devs cycle and game engine.
For example, Neptunia 1 was okay due to its funny nonsense, 2 was awful since they tested their combat system but story kind of improved, but afterward, their combat system for the series improved and their story was more character focused with more plot twist ending.
Maybe I just have bad taste and I am an enabler for IF shitty games >.>
But I still buy them because it feels like they are trying to grow the audience and improving their devs cycle and game engine.
For example, Neptunia 1 was okay due to its funny nonsense, 2 was awful since they tested their combat system but story kind of improved, but afterward, their combat system for the series improved and their story was more character focused with more plot twist ending.
Maybe I just have bad taste and I am an enabler for IF shitty games >.>
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Everytime I see one of their games, my reaction is "God, more of this shit? I remember when I used to like JRPGs." Even if they're not the only ones making JRPGs, their particular brand of bullshit kinda killed my enthusiasm for the genre, in a weird way.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
They don't sell games, they sell waifus in games.
Kresnik258
Member
Oh yeah, completely forgot about Hyperdevotion Noire, good point. I lumped that in as "Neptunia spinoff" which they're doing a lot more of these days.
My point was more that they used to make a lot of low-budget SRPG's but seem to have moved away from that, probably for the reasons you listed.
seriously? You mean they caught you and tortured you by showing their games forcefully until you got this kind of phobia?
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Haven't watched it yet, but PA just released an impressions video of Compile Heart's Omega Quintet. From the description, I'm guessing they weren't fans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0vAoMl0wb0&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0vAoMl0wb0&feature=youtu.be
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
All these "how can jrpgs change" threads we've been having lately--it's all cause of the ps3 gen waifu epidemic
YianGaruga
Banned
The game actually has a really good battle system. I skipped through the video and they said the art and the voices "physically hurt them", so I'm not sure how seriously I should take their opinions.
It's a fun game
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Yeah, that's what I've heard. I'm torn on the game - the gameplay sounds right up my alley, but the outward themes of the game aren't for me.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
They've found their market's itch and know how to scratch it, their business model doesn't revolve around everyone liking their games, just enough to scrape some profit over the low production cost. I honestly think it's pretty admirable, they can probably predict their sales to the dollar.
The first Idea Factory/Compile Heart game I played was the original Hyperdimension Neptunia, which I ended up loving as it was a novel concept for me and I enjoy self-aware/fourth wall breaking humour. But everything else I've played doesn't holds my interest, especially in recent days. I'm getting sick of the fanservice, poor art design and grindy nature of their games. Neptunia's saving grace was its writing, but I don't think CH has been able to replicate that.
They're not some cancer on RPGs, they're just making products I'm no longer interested in.
Edit: That said, I still pick up their games. I can usually get some enjoyment out of them.
They're not some cancer on RPGs, they're just making products I'm no longer interested in.
Edit: That said, I still pick up their games. I can usually get some enjoyment out of them.
Is it wrong to be irritated by fanservice and titillation? Shouldn't the reverse hold too then, as in if you want fanservice and titillation, grow up and get some proper pornography or something?
I don't think of Idea Factory as the devil. But it's hard not to look down on a company that thrives on the business of selling products that largely sell on female sexualization and objectification. Arguably the Idea Factory-type games, as prolific as they have been for the past few years, has helped tarnish the image of "JRPGs" outside Japan (maybe even inside).
The other odd thing would be that they also make otome games, which appeal to (Japanese) girls, but those are largely visual novel affairs and tend not to get localized, as far as I know.