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[wolfmat]

I’d rather see a 60,000 dollar venture to help fund a new side business to make a podcast directory site making revenue off ads or something. That’s the vibe I get from this project and I’d prefer that to what we have. Right now it sounds like asking for 30,000 dollars for a weekly podcast or two, and depending on how much money you give us they might do other stuff, but who knows. The listeners clearly can give enough to help fund whatever big-idea they have in the back of their minds. I just wish they would have been confident enough to come out with that front and center.

They're renting a bureau. They're buying mics and shit. They're recording and editing two podcasts. Maybe they're buying software and a PC for that. And a mixboard and cables. They're probably giving the art contributors and the game programmer some money for their troubles (if not, well, then I say why not). They host a lot of podcasts. They pay all those font licensing fees everyone's always talking about. They buy Dickens and Shakespeare. They buy video games. They buy a soundboard with police sirens. They hire Jeff Goldblum and a hooker for a day. Boost drinks bottles upon bottles of diet coke. It's easy to get to $30K like that.

 

[~Kinggi~]

They tend to talk about games that nobody else is talking about and often in a way that is both amusing and intelligent. In addition to the in jokes, gags, and songs, they actually attempt to analyze what they did or did not like about a game on a level that you honestly don't get to hear a lot. Most podcasts have to hit all the top new releases and there's a lot to get to in a short span of time so that it often feels like no one title is receiving genuinely in depth analysis, especially not several weeks after the fact. Idle Thumbs doesn't bother with keeping up to date with all the newest releases, which frees them up to really just talk at length about whatever game they're most intrigued by. There also isn't a whole lot of "this game is good" or "this game is bad" so much as there seems to be discussion of things that are particularly engaging or frustrating about any given game, without having to designate or define the entire experience with so simplistic a label.

I mean how many "pro sites" talk about Neptune's Pride and The Last Express?

It's fine that you don't see a difference between their content and other podcasts but I can assure you that most people donating money are doing so because they find the discussion and the humor to be far above average and worthy of support. Not sure how investing in people who create things that you like is a bad trend really.

Well i'll try and listen to more. I've only heard parts of episodes.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

I'm sure this has been posted before but whatever

 

[dLMN8R]

I know it was far too long to be easily digested, but I'd like to hope it was simply too verbose to be meaningful rather than straight up bullshit.

If I had to distill it to a central point though, how expensive is bandwidth for podcasts of this nature? I said 4,000 a year thinking that was high but maybe it isn't. If their costs were in the 8-12 thousand a year range than they should ask for more money and I hope they get it (they are). Anyone with experience that can give hard numbers?

Why does it matter so much? That's my entire point. You can spend $2000, you can spend $0, or anywhere in-between. You're still getting the exact same thing in the end outside of the little gifts.

It's a Kickstarter. You're donating money. You're not investing. You're not entitled to anything, and especially not entitled to knowing exactly where every single penny goes. You're not entitled to know where any of the money goes except for getting exactly what they say you'll get in the end.



If they get to pocket 99% of the money in the end and still pay for all their costs, excellent. It's hooker and blow money they deserve every penny to spend on hookers and blow.

 

[DOBERMAN INC]

My actions:

Thumbs "hey, give us money to podcast again."
Me "Okay, here is some money."
Done.

I don't care what they spend the excess money on, spend it all on lotto tickets It doesn't matter. Just bring back the podcast.

 

[Jintor]

I know it was far too long to be easily digested, but I'd like to hope it was simply too verbose to be meaningful rather than straight up bullshit.

If I had to distill it to a central point though, how expensive is bandwidth for podcasts of this nature? I said 4,000 a year thinking that was high but maybe it isn't. If their costs were in the 8-12 thousand a year range than they should ask for more money and I hope they get it (they are). Anyone with experience that can give hard numbers?

EDIT: To clarify, I don't have an issue with asking for money or people donating, or even the amount asked for per-say. I do have an issue with people assuming the amount asked for is absolutely necessary. I'm not asking for a line-by-line accounting report on projecting expenditures and revenues, but an estimates of an expected cost like bandwidth helps someone understand a lot. Whether anyone is entitled to such an estimate, however general, in cases like this a discussion I think could be worthwile.

They did say that bandwidth costs were in the thousands per year, and if you're not going to take their evidence straight from their mouths I'm not sure what we're really going to talk about.

Are we entitled to estimates or reports? Like I said, I'm not entirely certain. I'd err on the side of "I'd like it, but I don't think it's compulsary"

 

[Lasthope106]

I know it was far too long to be easily digested, but I'd like to hope it was simply too verbose to be meaningful rather than straight up bullshit.

If I had to distill it to a central point though, how expensive is bandwidth for podcasts of this nature? I said 4,000 a year thinking that was high but maybe it isn't. If their costs were in the 8-12 thousand a year range than they should ask for more money and I hope they get it (they are). Anyone with experience that can give hard numbers?

EDIT: To clarify, I don't have an issue with asking for money or people donating, or even the amount asked for per-say. I do have an issue with people assuming the amount asked for is absolutely necessary. I'm not asking for a line-by-line accounting report on projecting expenditures and revenues, but an estimates of an expected cost like bandwidth helps someone understand a lot. Whether anyone is entitled to such an estimate, however general, in cases like this a discussion I think could be worthwile.

I believe the OutOfTheGame guys were using the following:

http://libsyn.com/3/plans-and-pricing/

Shawn or Jeff can correct me if I'm wrong. But more to the point. I don't really care what they spend the money on. To me they have earned it. The amount of entertainment I already got from the podcast justifies what I've donated. It is frankly a small price if they can keep doing the podcast for a few more years. Realistically I would love if they could keep it going for decades, but that's uncharted territory in this space. Not to mention the rewards are awesome.

 

[Sober]

So for the pledge options where they ship things to me (I'm in Canada), do I just add the extra money towards my pledge amount?

 

[mattiewheels]

I can only hope and assume that them getting 100k+ to fund this means they'll never go away again....it was kind of traumatic, you know?

 

[Corto]

I know it was far too long to be easily digested, but I'd like to hope it was simply too verbose to be meaningful rather than straight up bullshit.

If I had to distill it to a central point though, how expensive is bandwidth for podcasts of this nature? I said 4,000 a year thinking that was high but maybe it isn't. If their costs were in the 8-12 thousand a year range than they should ask for more money and I hope they get it (they are). Anyone with experience that can give hard numbers?

Historically podcasts gave us a rather distorted image that people creating regular content for our entertainment should do it for free. Maybe that podcast could be just another outlet for a bigger project that is monetized by ad revenue or other, but in the most cases, podcasts are the work of people creating content just for the hell of it and then hoping someone, somewhere will like it enough to follow it and become a regular. This was based on the fact that podcasts are rather easy to produce and distribute, and everyone and their mothers can create and publish one with very little effort, including financial. That doesn't account for some things. Podcasts take time to produce, time to prepare, time to edit. Good podcasts with good production values (good mics, good mixer, a nice recording room) cost money. There are already paid podcasts where you can pay for "seasons" of episodes upfront. This kickstarter thing is a one time payment for me to ensure the existence of a podcast that I love. The different tiers of rewards are also sweetening the deal a bit. The book club thing is just exhilirating to me. I'm paying to commit this team of people to take some time of their life and work and create content for my enjoyment.

This kind of projects can never give a fixed plan for use of the money as the goalpost is dynamic. I'm sure Idle Thumbs crew will give us a more fixed roadmap of their intentions once they have a fixed number they can work with.

 

[wolfmat]

So for the pledge options where they ship things to me (I'm in Canada), do I just add the extra money towards my pledge amount?

Yeah, seems like it. That's how it's reportedly been done with the Double Fine kickstarter as well. So I guess it's standard practice.

 

[firehawk12]

So for the pledge options where they ship things to me (I'm in Canada), do I just add the extra money towards my pledge amount?

Yep, that's correct.

Also, this would have been too mean of me to suggest, but I thought one of the tiers should have been a podcast playthrough of the Telltale

Spoiler

Jurassic Park

game.

 

[Rodney McKay]

I don't listen to podcasts and I've never listened to an Idle Thumbs, but over the years it's been easily one of the most highly praised podcasts out there on account of the excellent cast and chemistry. I think "the Brodeo" (the Jeff Green podcast thing) is probably the only podcast I've seen get quite as much praise. I've also never heard any complaints about it, which is unusual. Normally even the most glowing podcast threads have a lot of "I love it but so-and-so is a wet sock" or "I love it but they need to cut this segment" and I've never heard that about Idle Thumbs.

Just an outside observation.

The only issues I've heard people express with the Idle Thumbs podcast is:

1.) Too much laughing at their own jokes.
and
2.) Swearing. Specifically the use of the word "retarded" or "rape."

For 1, I have no issue with it and honestly don't understand why people don't like it. They're a bunch of hilarious, funny friends and there's is nothing wrong with laughter.

For 2, I can understand people being upset with it and calling it immature or tasteless. They could tone it down and I wouldn't be bothered, but I don't have an issue with it because I know that they don't say "retarded" as a derogatory comment on the mentally handicapped and they don't say "rape" as a derogatory comment on victims of rape.

I honestly find the occasionally vulgar language to be a hilarious foil to the in-depth and thoughtful analysis they do on video games.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

It's a Kickstarter. You're donating money. You're not investing. You're not entitled to anything, and especially not entitled to knowing exactly where every single penny goes. You're not entitled to know where any of the money goes except for getting exactly what they say you'll get in the end.

If they get to pocket 99% of the money in the end and still pay for all their costs, excellent. It's hooker and blow money they deserve every penny to spend on hookers and blow.

My actions:

Thumbs "hey, give us money to podcast again."
Me "Okay, here is some money."
Done.

I don't care what they spend the excess money on, spend it all on lotto tickets It doesn't matter. Just bring back the podcast.

But we wouldn't take the same approach to say, a charity would we? We'd want to get a general sense of how they spend money so we can know if our donation will make a real difference. I get that you think they deserve extra money as a reward, that's fine. But I don't think that necessarily runs counter to them saying, "we need $X to get the podcast running again, and everything you donate over that we'll consider a reward for all our hard work." I'm just arguing that X is much lower than 30,000.

They did say that bandwidth costs were in the thousands per year, and if you're not going to take their evidence straight from their mouths I'm not sure what we're really going to talk about.

Are we entitled to estimates or reports? Like I said, I'm not entirely certain. I'd err on the side of "I'd like it, but I don't think it's compulsary"

There's an ambiguity in the language of thousands. It could be anywhere from 1000-9999. Unless they're closer to 8,000 the cost isn't super prohibitive. As to your other point, I agree. I'd like very general estimates, but I don't think they should be required. That said, for very big donation goals, I think there should be an increased expectation of such estimates.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

They kind of drop some of the "tasteless" language as the cast goes on.

 

[wolfmat]

But we wouldn't take the same approach to say, a charity would we?

If you want to get all serious about it: Sure we do. It's no secret that gamers are basically shoveling crazy amounts of money over to charities.

 

[reptilescorpio]

From the bits i've listened to it sounds no different than the sea of other gaming podcasts out there on pro sites. I do not see the value. I guess you just have to be fans of the people. I still think its ridiculous the amount of funding they are getting but i guess as long as people are willing to pay.....i just foresee a bad trend starting here.

I have no problem with the funding. I paid $100 for some merchandise direct from the people responsible for the work. I get a T-shirt, some stickers and an awesome Art Print.

If it was just a donation thing I might chip in $10 just for the laughs I've had over the years, giving rewards makes it worth spending a bit more.

The money that has been pledged isn't profit. They still need to print up shirts, postcards, artwork, etc.

 

[Slavik81]

But we wouldn't take the same approach to say, a charity would we? We'd want to get a general sense of how they spend money so we can know if our donation will make a real difference. I get that you think they deserve extra money as a reward, that's fine. But I don't think that necessarily runs counter to them saying, "we need $X to get the podcast running again, and everything you donate over that we'll consider a reward for all our hard work." I'm just arguing that X is much lower than 30,000.

Hence why this is not a charity.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

If you want to get all serious about it: Sure we do. It's no secret that gamers are basically shoveling crazy amounts of money over to charities.

Do you really though? Do you mean to tell me you seriously give money to a charity without doing any research whatsoever, or having some kind of pre-existing knowledge of which ones are legitimate?

 

[Tim-E]

You're taking this way too fucking seriously. They want to establish something as more than just something ran from an apartment and it costs several thousand dollars to do that per year. They want to make it a permanent thing so it's something that they will need to pay for for many years to come. After buying equipment, paying the monthly rent/bills for an office, paying the bandwidth costs, travel expenses to conferences, I can see the 30k disappearing before too long.

 

[LCfiner]

Chris Remo came in this thread and explained that a lot of that 30 grand was reserved for the rewards, which will cost some serious cash as they need to make minimum print runs of the art prints or t shirts.

that, plus the hosting costs, the podcasting equipment, the creation of a new indie game and the various taxes and KS fees is enough info for me to confident that the money is going to the right places.

Now, what are they going to do with anything over 30 grand? well, they have 30 days during this kick-starter to figure that out and tell us.

It was easy for the double fine Kickstarter since they were able to add obvious things to the game like voice acting, translations, an additional platform port, etc...

I do not know if there are similar “obvious” areas the Idle thumbs guys can use this extra cash but I do believe they will find a decent use for it.

 

[El Sloth]

I'm off the internet for a couple of days, and this happens?

Fuck yeah.

 

[The Big Rig]

There's an ambiguity in the language of thousands. It could be anywhere from 1000-9999. Unless they're closer to 8,000 the cost isn't super prohibitive. As to your other point, I agree. I'd like very general estimates, but I don't think they should be required. That said, for very big donation goals, I think there should be an increased expectation of such estimates.

Oh please. Find something more constructive to point out the smallest flaws.

 

[wolfmat]

Do you really though? Do you mean to tell me you seriously give money to a charity without doing any research whatsoever, or having some kind of per-existing knowledge of which ones are legitimate?

I've done my research though. I'm satisfied. The Thumbs guys are totally into video games, and they obviously feel like they have to talk about them, and record that. And I know I want to listen to them talking while sitting in the train or whatever because that's been an enjoyable experience in the past. I need new episodes because there are a couple of games that have come out in the meantime that I'd like to hear them discuss. More I do not need to know. Here's money I could've easily spent on shit that makes Chinese workers kill themselves.

 

[Rodney McKay]

I do not know if there are similar “obvious” areas the Idle thumbs guys can use this extra cash but I do believe they will find a decent use for it.

Obviously they will fly in Nick Breckon and Steve "Hot Scoops" Gaynor every week with the extra million dollars this kickstarter makes.

 

[Zeliard]

Here's money I could've easily spent on shit that makes Chinese workers kill themselves.

Haha, now that's putting it in perspective.

 

[El Sloth]

The Book Club podcast has me really pumped. I haven't even been reading at all lately.

But we wouldn't take the same approach to say, a charity would we? We'd want to get a general sense of how they spend money so we can know if our donation will make a real difference. I get that you think they deserve extra money as a reward, that's fine. But I don't think that necessarily runs counter to them saying, "we need $X to get the podcast running again, and everything you donate over that we'll consider a reward for all our hard work." I'm just arguing that X is much lower than 30,000.

The reasons for why people give money to charities and why people give money for Kickstarter projects like the Double Fine point-and-click adventure game and the Idle Thumbs podcast are pretty different, dude. To compare the two seems unfair and weird.

 

[Ceebs]

Are they going to put up a MP3 link for the updatecast or will I need to rip the audio myself?

 

[Jintor]

But we wouldn't take the same approach to say, a charity would we? We'd want to get a general sense of how they spend money so we can know if our donation will make a real difference. I get that you think they deserve extra money as a reward, that's fine. But I don't think that necessarily runs counter to them saying, "we need $X to get the podcast running again, and everything you donate over that we'll consider a reward for all our hard work." I'm just arguing that X is much lower than 30,000.

Charities have a very broad focus area where results are expected [i.e. the betterment of lives, etc], whereas this specific Kickstarter has one and only one: getting us more podcasts. The proof of effect for charities is more difficult because the donors aren't the ones feeling the ramifications of their donations, but so long as Idle Thumbs revives, we'll have the proof of donation.

I think it's pointless to talk about how much money they do or don't need without actually knowing anything substantial about their backend operations. I trust them enough to not fuck us over, basically.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

I heard that all excess money goes toward buying scoops a sweet robot arm and his old human arm will be used for backing up into.

 

[hamchan]

But we wouldn't take the same approach to say, a charity would we? We'd want to get a general sense of how they spend money so we can know if our donation will make a real difference. I get that you think they deserve extra money as a reward, that's fine. But I don't think that necessarily runs counter to them saying, "we need $X to get the podcast running again, and everything you donate over that we'll consider a reward for all our hard work." I'm just arguing that X is much lower than 30,000.

If that charity spent years making free, hilarious podcasts in the past, are extremely well loved by a community of gamers, are known for being a bunch of cool, nice guys and just have a huge amount of goodwill overall from their activities, then yes, there'd probably be people willing to chuck money at them for whatever new project they wanted to do, no questions asked.

 

[TehOh]

The charity comparison is ridiculous.

I don't ask Nintendo what they do with the money that I spent on a game.

Putting money into a Kickstarter projects isn't charity. It's a purchase of goods and services. If you don't want to "buy" into a project, don't. It's that simple.

 

[Corto]

Are they going to put up a MP3 link for the updatecast or will I need to rip the audio myself?

As it's limited content for backers only I think they won't put up a link for direct download. But you can snoop around the source code of that page and easily find an url to the mp4 file.

 

[Presco]

Oh sweet jesus, I've been setting up my new crazy home theatre system and haven't been on gaf all day. This is so goddamn glorious. I read through this whole thread with a smile. I've been relistening to the archive over the past few weeks in preparation for whatever was about to happen and it's as good as it ever was.

In for $110. Thanks for the many hours of entertainment and insightful commentary. So excited for the book club podcast.

 

[El Sloth]

The charity comparison is ridiculous.

I don't ask Nintendo what they do with the money that I spent on a game.

Putting money into a Kickstarter projects isn't charity. It's a purchase of goods and services. If you don't want to "buy" into a project, don't. It's that simple.

It's more of an investment really.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

I think we're more in agreement than we're in disagreement. I brought up the charity not to compare them to Kickstarter projects in terms of societal worth, but to analyze the reasoning we use when we consider donating money. We don't give to random Kickstarter projects for the same reason we don't give to random charities. Idle Thumbs, like say The Red Cross, is a known quantity, so you know that your money is not going to be wasted and they're going to deliver.

I'm taking issue with the original amount they said was necessary, and I think people have made good points about why it can be that high. All I'm trying to argue is that if you had to guess how much this project would ask for before it went live, it would be far below 30,000.

 

[Tim-E]

The charity comparison is ridiculous.

I don't ask Nintendo what they do with the money that I spent on a game.

You should only purchase a game once you've contacted the publisher's accounting department and had them deliver a line by line summary of development expenses to you personally.

 

[Jintor]

I'm taking issue with the original amount they said was necessary, and I think people have made good points about why it can be that high. All I'm trying to argue is that if you had to guess how much this project would ask for before it went live, it would be far below 30,000.

Yes, but you would also be completely uninformed and your opinion would be borderline worthless.

 

[Tim-E]

Yes, but you would also be completely uninformed and your opinion would be borderline worthless.

He basically admitted his wall of text has no purpose here.

 

[Jintor]

He basically admitted his wall of text has no purpose here.

I wouldn't go that far. Discussion is rarely worthless, especially when it's delivered without vitriol.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

He basically admitted his wall of text has no purpose here.

Bah, my Wall O' Words (patent pending) dealt in depth with the reasons why I thought the original figure was too high, as well as some concerns about the project direction as stated. That dealt directly with some of the good points people up. Just because I thought they were good points doesn't mean I think they're conclusive. That said, we seem to have played this discussion out.

 

[SirPenguin]

The Idle Thumbs guys would have to be complete fools to squander the money or scam the community in any way. They're completely and voluntarily ingrained in just about every major community out there, from GAF to SA, and have built up a ton of good will over the years. They're not going to squander that, and even if they tried to I think we'd catch on pretty quick.

Anyways, I read this topic from work and was incredibly excited to come home and open my wallet. $30 price point looks like the sweet spot for me.

 

[El Sloth]

^$30 is also the sweet spot for me. I would have given the $30 just for the regular podcast alone. My way of saying thanks for all the laughs.

I think we're more in agreement than we're in disagreement. I brought up the charity not to compare them to Kickstarter projects in terms of societal worth, but to analyze the reasoning we use when we consider donating money. We don't give to random Kickstarter projects for the same reason we don't give to random charities. Idle Thumbs, like say The Red Cross, is a known quantity, so you know that your money is not going to be wasted and they're going to deliver.

I'm taking issue with the original amount they said was necessary, and I think people have made good points about why it can be that high. All I'm trying to argue is that if you had to guess how much this project would ask for before it went live, it would be far below 30,000.

Well it would be an unfair guess since there is pretty much no way I could have expected them to get a Gravity Bone sequel to be made solely for the project, an extra Book Club podcast, an actual office to record the thing and maybe even for working on some other fun stuff, etc.

I would have only guessed that they would have tried their hands at some merchandising this time around. But, with all that in mind, yes of course my estimate would have been far lower. Not that I think this is an unfair amount anyways.

 

[Otrebor Nightmarecoat]

He basically admitted his wall of text has no purpose here.

As a professional hater I can give the expert opinion that the poster is only hating because theres too much of a circlejerk or mantrain type of loving for this podcast. He bored so he wants to "spice things up" and open up unnecessary discussion. Hes like that asshole that posted a picture of starving african children in the Double Fine kickstarter thread.

 

[Jintor]

Christ, he just wanted to talk. Chill out.

 

[Tim-E]

"Next week on Idle Thumbs join us as we continue our in depth discussion of the video game industry from our beach-side office in Bali."

 

[Slavik81]

I think we're more in agreement than we're in disagreement. I brought up the charity not to compare them to Kickstarter projects in terms of societal worth, but to analyze the reasoning we use when we consider donating money. We don't give to random Kickstarter projects for the same reason we don't give to random charities. Idle Thumbs, like say The Red Cross, is a known quantity, so you know that your money is not going to be wasted and they're going to deliver.

I give to charities because I expect them to do something for me. I expect Red Cross to actually help people, not pocket the money themselves. I demand that they account for it, because I have no way of personally verifying that they are doing as they promise.

On the other hand, I gave this money to the Idle Thumbs expecting nothing. I hope they do something cool with it, but if Chris Remo wants to spend the remainder on hookers and blow after sending out the prizes, that's fine. Though, I wouldn't donate again.

 

[Otrebor Nightmarecoat]

Christ, he just wanted to talk. Chill out.

I know and approve of his postings. Someone needs to express those types of criticisms and expose the real unficticious truth one way or the other.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Why don't you remedy this? Based on your posts, it seems like it'd be your sort of thing.

I don't live alone (and thus don't have a lot of silences around the house to fill), I don't multitask particularly well, and I don't commute, so I'm not a good target audience for Podcasts. If prominent podcasters were to take some of their best work and try to hash it out into longer essays, I'd read the hell out of them. Clearly I like the kind of things that people seem to get out of Podcasts, they just don't jive with my routine. I've always liked Chris Remo's written work, FWIW, so I'm sure if I did listen to Podcasts this would be a good choice. I've heard a few episodes of Retronauts and I like those, but I prefer to read Sharkey, Toasty, and Kobun's written work for the same reason.

 

[hamchan]

Christ, he just wanted to talk. Chill out.

He shouldn't have started his argument with "This thread needs more haters to keep it interesting."

That was just asking for people to dislike him.