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Idle Thumbs Megathread | Indepth discussion inbetween horsebags and birdsounds

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Enjoyed this episode like always, but I just want to say that the "what is games" discussion is so pedantic on the semantics it's nearly puzzling. Like, saying that puzzles can't be games, and that you can't lose in super mario or dishonored because the checkpoints means you can go back and try again (might be paraphrasing here)? It's just really weird to hear Remo trying to push what I think is a really flawed definition.
 

TTG

Member
About the XCOM vs Mario(and most other games) in terms of failure, and forgive me for pulling that one point out of the context of a larger discussion, but there's a huge difference. Because of the way it is structured, to use Chris's phrase, "decisions that ripple forward", it's entirely possible to flat out lose a campaign that lasts longer than a lot of action games. You don't have to be playing on ironman(one save forced on you after every move, no reloading) like Chris to run into it either. You could be reloading every mission and decisions that you made a month ago(game time) will come back to bite you, possibly accumulating to a complete failure or to a point where you might as well throw in the towel.

We can debate the merits of this kind of design, I think it's very interesting, but there's no denying that doesn't happen... almost ever. It would be like Halo 4 declaring, "Well well, Master Chief. I see you didn't pick up that laser cannon back in level 2. You could keep retrying level 6 or reloading back to 2, but you may as well start over." Not that XCOM is that cheap and unfair or the choices that plainly right and wrong, but that's the sort of thing it can come down to. Even in a huge RPG, let's go back to an early JRPG because recent Bethesda games and such have done away with even this kind of setback, you can simply retreat from a boss and grind away. Come back to fight another day, Brazil isn't gonna quit on you in Final Fantasy, forcing you to operate at a monthly loss, leaving you essentially stranded.

It is really more like a chess game, you can make mistakes at any point that may prove to be fatal. Maybe there's a chance, if you're good enough, to come back from it and change the tide, maybe you can't. Most games will simply reload you back to the point where you made a mistake. Or maybe you can sit in a corner, behind cover and regenerate your queen. Better yet, you only ever should reward the player! fun! fun! fun! Anyway, just expanding on the point Chris made...
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
perhaps a good comparison would be with Pikmin 1 and 2?

In Pikmin 1, due to the fixed schedule, you could get yourself into a situation which was pretty much impossible to complete the game quite early on. Same kind of forethought needed, but you don't realise it at the time because you can't have hindsight in advance.
 

TTG

Member
perhaps a good comparison would be with Pikmin 1 and 2?

In Pikmin 1, due to the fixed schedule, you could get yourself into a situation which was pretty much impossible to complete the game quite early on. Same kind of forethought needed, but you don't realise it at the time because you can't have hindsight in advance.

I wish I played more than about 3 hours of the original Pikmin, especially with all the love those games get, I'm missing out.

I used the scenario of all out failure because it makes for the clearest contrast, but there's more to it than that. In XCOM, your opponent(alien invasion as a whole, the simulation, the design...whatever you want to call it) will inevitably get some swings in that will hurt you, and you'll have to just live with it. Is this something that a lot of games do? You may get stripped of your power ups a la Metroid, or be without Dom in Gears of War for a level, but these are scripted events. Changing the rules does not equate to kicking your ass. An intense battle in a RPG will put a serious drain on whatever you got in your inventory, but again, only an inconvenience to overcome.

Most games actively try to eliminate that sort of thing, great or bad. How hard do you have to work at fucking yourself over in Bioshock for it to make a difference?
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
The couldn't stop laughing at Steve knocking the plane off course. That's so like him.
 
Enjoyed this episode like always, but I just want to say that the "what is games" discussion is so pedantic on the semantics it's nearly puzzling. Like, saying that puzzles can't be games, and that you can't lose in super mario or dishonored because the checkpoints means you can go back and try again (might be paraphrasing here)? It's just really weird to hear Remo trying to push what I think is a really flawed definition.
As I tried (by maybe failed) to stress in the episode, I was pursuing a real time thought experiment rather than actually laying out a personal manifesto.

TTG does explain the point I was trying to make, probably better than I did, and I think there are meaningful differences in the "gaminess" of different kinds of games, but that doesn't ultimately discount any of those kinds of games.
 

TTG

Member
Can I just say, I want a Space Asshole remake, titled Magic Asshole. Make it happen Chris. Also, imprison Scoops in your basement or a bathroom, or something. He's awesome, don't let him leave.
 
Thank you IdleThumbs talking about the DarkSouls/Japanese/Raven art style on the RuinationCast. A lot the senior artist still paint in highlights on metals or rocks while many newer artist use procedural materials/normal maps to create looks on materials. When you look at people's texture libraries/psd files, you can see people's art style/order of operations completely different but still in unified in the level/world art we are trying to make together.
I still paint in highlights when I can. Old habits.
 

Ceebs

Member
Magic School had me cracking up. Great episode.

I also finished all four and a half hours of the ruination cast. Made my drives this week fly by.
 

TTG

Member
Alright, I gotta say something and it's going to sound like heresy, but here it goes. Far Cry 3 looks... good?! Just saw this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBjnx9I-YrQ&feature=g-u-u

Now, let's get the obvious out of the way. The setting is a theme park compared to Far Cry 2, which was an amazing mix of beauty and despair and danger. I'm also wondering how much of that amazing arsenal that Far Cry 2 had will make it back. Maybe I'll get an experience similar to laying waste to a villa by shelling it with mortar from a nearby hill and then picking off the survivors with a 50 cal sniper, maybe I won't. But, I'm surprised at the number of stuff they kept.

Anyway, felt like reporting in, considering the history.
 

jmro

Member
Thanks dudes. Especially Chris. Excellent masking.

card_28g7dgy97o.jpg

sigs_9mlyfes33s.jpg
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
I upped my pledge but forgot to reselect my reward tier. Doh.
 

Shaneus

Member
Thanks dudes. Especially Chris. Excellent masking.

card_28g7dgy97o.jpg

sigs_9mlyfes33s.jpg
"Without you, the puzzle is incomplete."

Awww <3

I still maintain that we need more Dr. Sbaitso and Marek impersonations. I also need to hear more of Jake's "Real pods, real casts, real thumbs... Idle Thumbs" branding and Sean's Mr. Tutuwantu.
 

bndadm

Member
I love the chemistry the cast has. Even minor things become freakishly hilarious.

Thanks to the other thread going around recommending podcasts, I have started tuning into this one and find myself laughing out loud with them about things for that exact reason.

Example: Unsure which episode, but one where they talk about the "How am I driving?" bumperstickers, and how one of them thought it was funny if someone interpreted it as a genuine question. "How...how am I driving?" as if having just realized they were behind the wheel.

70 some episodes to go and I'm looking forward to each and every one of them.

/subscribed.
 

Shaneus

Member
Thanks to the other thread going around recommending podcasts, I have started tuning into this one and find myself laughing out loud with them about things for that exact reason.

Example: Unsure which episode, but one where they talk about the "How am I driving?" bumperstickers, and how one of them thought it was funny if someone interpreted it as a genuine question. "How...how am I driving?" as if having just realized they were behind the wheel.

70 some episodes to go and I'm looking forward to each and every one of them.

/subscribed.
I envy you. You don't know what you have coming up! Think of it as The Truman Show, and you've only just left the bubble.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
Are any of you thumbs guys playing Planetside2? Because I Just started playing it and its basically the coolest game ever.
 
While we're on the subject:

Whose signature is that on top? Doug? Or maybe smoke coming from Sean's V. Or hair coming from Sean's V.

Is that a sideways smiley face with one eye? i.e. Jake Rod (.

I love mysteries!

 

Mar

Member
Just wanted to say thanks to the dudes for answering my question on the cast. I honestly thought that with so many to get through the guys would just vaguely address the question and move on but instead went into great detail. I wish the subject would come up more often and be treated with as much maturity and serious discussion.
 

Margalis

Banned
Chris has some smart ideas about game design, I wish they could find a way to integrate those into the show more.

In particular I'm thinking about the little video clip of him talking about Stalker and how play-testing to smooth off rough edges, while it makes sense on some level, can sabotage the overall prickly and foreign feel of the game.

There are very few podcasts that talk about game design at all, let alone intelligently. (I'm sure all the Idle Thumbs guys have interesting things to say about it but Chris seems the best at articulating.)
 

Ledsen

Member
Chris has some smart ideas about game design, I wish they could find a way to integrate those into the show more.

In particular I'm thinking about the little video clip of him talking about Stalker and how play-testing to smooth off rough edges, while it makes sense on some level, can sabotage the overall prickly and foreign feel of the game.

There are very few podcasts that talk about game design at all, let alone intelligently. (I'm sure all the Idle Thumbs guys have interesting things to say about it but Chris seems the best at articulating.)

Which little video clip?
 

Shaneus

Member
Chris has some smart ideas about game design, I wish they could find a way to integrate those into the show more.

In particular I'm thinking about the little video clip of him talking about Stalker and how play-testing to smooth off rough edges, while it makes sense on some level, can sabotage the overall prickly and foreign feel of the game.

There are very few podcasts that talk about game design at all, let alone intelligently. (I'm sure all the Idle Thumbs guys have interesting things to say about it but Chris seems the best at articulating.)
Yeah, I'd be mad keen to see him take on a significant role in a DF game. I don't know whether they're the sort of dev who would make something I can envisage him being truly passionate about, but there's so much smart stuff he's mentioned over the years, I can't help but think that those ideas are wasted on some podcast (when they could be also used somewhere far better).

Dang. Long sentence.
 

eot

Banned
I'm going through the archives and in an episode there was a mention of Action SuperCross, the prequel to Elasto Mania, which reminded of this insane compilation of trick. It's pretty wild how good people get at some games when they play them for 10 years straight.
 

Lijik

Member
I forgot to post about it here, but my package from the Idle Thumbs Fulfillment Center came last week and no hyperbole-
That Idle Thumbs shirt is the best fitting t-shirt I have ever worn in my life.
 

Shaneus

Member
Fuuuck, that postcard is boss. I hope the deliveries for Australians arrive soon!

Thumbs dudes: Any idea if there were tracking numbers or somesuch for international backers? It'd be awesome if there was a way I could see the progress of all that gear.
 

xir

Likely to be eaten by a grue
inspired by the thumbs talking about Binding of Isaac's item names and attention to detail, I realized all the keys in Dishonored all look the same and have the same description. So, I contacted Harvey Smith on twitter about it. Long story short, we started writing fan fiction for the keys. Hopefully these will be patched in later. Hopefully this gets sanctioned and other thumb-lovers can get some microfiction in about these rusty, old keys.

That is all.
 

FStop7

Banned
While we're on the subject:

Whose signature is that on top? Doug? Or maybe smoke coming from Sean's V. Or hair coming from Sean's V.

Is that a sideways smiley face with one eye? i.e. Jake Rod (.

I love mysteries!


The mystery name and Famous' signature look like they were written by the same person.

So what I conclude from this is that Vanaman has been replaced by an imposter robot.
 

sixghost

Member
The mystery name and Famous' signature look like they were written by the same person.

So what I conclude from this is that Vanaman has been replaced by an imposter robot.

Ghostwriter Max has subsumed Sean. The only way you can tell is the handwriting.
 
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