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If charging as much as possible is corporate greed, then wanting to spend as little as possible is consumer greed

Trunx81

Member
Michael Douglas High Quality GIF
gg

Greed Gud.

Also: Buying cheap makes you buy twice, at least with technology. Learned that back in the days when I bought my first digital camera. 4mp and this mofo had the quality of a potato cam. Got a 2mp Pentax Optio S and loved it till it died on the Games Convention (someone stumbled into me and the lens broke).

Edit: Did somehow miss that this is the gaming forum. Just wait for a sale, man!
 
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Oh yeah, how dare the consumer want to spend less money during a time of economic recession. We should really stop bullying those poor, defenseless billion dollar corporations. I mean, if we all don't start paying $70 for every new AAA game at launch, how else is Bobby Kotick supposed to afford his fourth yacht?

I don't fucking owe these companies my money. They do not deserve my money for producing a new video game.
 
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Oh yeah, how dare the consumer want to spend less money during a time of economic recession. We should really stop bullying those poor, defenseless billion dollar corporations. I mean, if we all don't start paying $70 for every new AAA game at launch, how else is Bobby Kotick supposed to afford his fourth yacht?

I don't fucking owe these companies my money. They do not deserve my money for producing a new video game.
Brave take, wow 👏
 

MarkMe2525

Member
Cope and seethe because I'm correct. Both sides will always seek to maximize their outcome. I will always seek to pay the lowest price possible, producers of goods will always charge the max they can. Depending on market conditions that price might be closer to the consumer's prefered price (which is $0) or the producer's preferred price. Since gaming is a very competitive market, the prices have generally been deflationary and haven't even kept up with inflation. The GPU market on the other hand is a good example of what an uncompetitive market can look like.

"Greed" doesn't explain anything because we are all outcome maximizing all the time, therefore it cannot explain changes in price.
These are equal only in a world where the corporate entity is equal to an individual. I would like to believe that we should strive for the betterment of the individual before the needs of a corporate entity. In this case, you would hope for the advantage to go to the consumer, hence why corporate greed would be considered to have a "negative" outcome.
 

WoJ

Member
The two aren't relatable.

Consumers make decisions to purchase items based on what perceived value a product will give them. If a product isn't believed to give them value associated with price they won't pay for it. It's as simple as that.
 

Toots

Gold Member
Imp the Gimp of big corporations.
I guess yesterday's email revelations about Phil's idiocy was what send him over the edge.

He was a consumer and good at his job.
But he committed the ultimate sin, and went on skidrow to torrent an ubisoft game
The RIIA tried to fine him, but got the woman he loved instead
Now he prowls the forums, an outlaw hunting outlaws, a lazy troll,
a renegade


bvSgzBq.jpg

k2RUCVS.jpg

always wanted to be Raines buddy he was so cool for 6 years old me :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
Perhaps. But just as big cropos aren't conflicted about squeezing us for the last drop of blood, I have no scruples paying as little as possible for their product. We're all a part of a giant tug of war here so idk why OP is acting all high and mighty because he finally figured out that yes, indeed, most people like to be smart about their money.

bigdeal.gif
 

darrylgorn

Member

If charging as much as possible is corporate greed, then wanting to spend as little as possible is consumer greed​


Meaning GIF
 
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BbMajor7th

Member
The problem is that the corporate ethos is insatiable by design: if a corporation manages to earn $10tn dollars a year and make every human being on earth a happy paying customer, they'll have to find a way to make it $15tn next year and $20tn the year after that. It wouldn't be a problem except the model demands infinite growth in a finite system and that's just not possible.

You see it in gaming: the industry was growing solidly all throughout the early 2000s, in the mid 20-teens they started to realise the existing model and consumer base was tapped out, so you had all these schemes to broaden the audience for games (the most successful of which has been cross-media ventures in TV and film), then you had all the premium SKUs bullshit, the recurrent spend models and the explosion of live service games.

Making huge profits and selling great products is never enough; you can't simply be really successful and aim to stay that way - you have to make more every year, no matter how well you're doing or how much you might have to compromise yourself or your products to do it.
 

The Fuzz damn you!

Gold Member
Holy shit, the number of people in this thread who…

  • Feel the need to condescend to OP for “just figuring out economics” while ignoring the endless multitude who clearly still don’t and need it explained to them.
  • Think that OP is calling consumers “greedy” despite the fact that he is obviously pointing out the ridiculousness of doing exactly that.
  • Think that OP is defending corporations despite the fact that he is obviously describing the state of the relationship between producer and consumer, not judging it.
…is depressing.

Every company charges as much as the market can bear. There are no “pro-consumer” or “anti-consumer” corporations, there are only pro-corporate corporations and a variety of tactics. Some of those tactics give consumers more for less, other less for more, but ALL of them are designed to extract as much money from you in the long run as they possibly can. When the cost of manufacturing (as distinct from the cost of production - although ofte there as well) is effectively zero, as it is in this industry, the opportunities to extract money in a variety of ways are astounding.

And yes, people really do need this spelled out for them.

No, no, no, no, no. My preferred price is the negative price: I get paid to use your product.

If you’re getting paid to use the product, you *are* the fucking product.
 

ShaiKhulud1989

Gold Member
I have a plan to eliminate greed. If the game is getting good only after 15 hours, so I'll pay my hard-earned $70 after 15 hours. Though the publisher should compensate my wasted time by paying me 5 bucks per hour back. I'm waiting for my $205 bucks. It sounds silly of course, but so does OP.

Time is the priceless resource few people can afford and a lot of it is simply wasted in modern Battle Pass ridden products. And you need to pay to have access to more grind. Perfecto.

Make a good game that will worth your time from the opening hours and this thread wouldn't even exist lol.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Holy shit, the number of people in this thread who…

  • Feel the need to condescend to OP for “just figuring out economics” while ignoring the endless multitude who clearly still don’t and need it explained to them.
  • Think that OP is calling consumers “greedy” despite the fact that he is obviously pointing out the ridiculousness of doing exactly that.
  • Think that OP is defending corporations despite the fact that he is obviously describing the state of the relationship between producer and consumer, not judging it.
…is depressing.

Every company charges as much as the market can bear. There are no “pro-consumer” or “anti-consumer” corporations, there are only pro-corporate corporations and a variety of tactics. Some of those tactics give consumers more for less, other less for more, but ALL of them are designed to extract as much money from you in the long run as they possibly can. When the cost of manufacturing (as distinct from the cost of production - although ofte there as well) is effectively zero, as it is in this industry, the opportunities to extract money in a variety of ways are astounding.

And yes, people really do need this spelled out for them.



If you’re getting paid to use the product, you *are* the fucking product.
Found OP's alt
 

Kindela

Banned
OP's right, but not sure why does that even have to be said? I mean there's people below trying to fight that, so apparently it can't hurt.
All other things being the same (i.e. quality), I'd always buy the cheapest possible product built by 8 year old kids in some sweatshop in India. As would all of you in here.
 

Sakura

Member
I'm not sure I understand OP's point.
Yeah, of course consumers would prefer to pay less. So?

Also I don't think you know what greed means.
If I wanted to accumulate as much food as possible, even though I couldn't possibly ever eat it all, and even while knowing others will go hungry because of it, then that is greed.
Wanting to spend less money on a video game, is not.
It's a little silly to conflate the two.
 
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Hudo

Member
People pay how much they deemed worth it. I pay 70 day one for some games, but I don't spend more than 10 in others. Greedy, maybe, but at the end I rather pass on a game then overpay for it. I have a huge backlog of games that I pay 60 bucks for it play a couple of hours and said, I'm good, not really liking this game. Today, I am a bit more selective before spending my hard-earned money.
Stop being reasonable!
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Holy shit, the number of people in this thread who…

  • Feel the need to condescend to OP for “just figuring out economics” while ignoring the endless multitude who clearly still don’t and need it explained to them.
  • Think that OP is calling consumers “greedy” despite the fact that he is obviously pointing out the ridiculousness of doing exactly that.
  • Think that OP is defending corporations despite the fact that he is obviously describing the state of the relationship between producer and consumer, not judging it.
…is depressing.

Every company charges as much as the market can bear. There are no “pro-consumer” or “anti-consumer” corporations, there are only pro-corporate corporations and a variety of tactics. Some of those tactics give consumers more for less, other less for more, but ALL of them are designed to extract as much money from you in the long run as they possibly can. When the cost of manufacturing (as distinct from the cost of production - although ofte there as well) is effectively zero, as it is in this industry, the opportunities to extract money in a variety of ways are astounding.

And yes, people really do need this spelled out for them.



If you’re getting paid to use the product, you *are* the fucking product.
I learned it a long time ago is that it's less about what your intention was, and more about how people will respond to your actions/words.

Simply put: phrasing.

Also, this is kind of an obvious thing even for younger people, to be honest, and yet he presented it in the most obnoxious and condescending way possible, so the overall response is actually kinda reflective of that.
 

Ishma3L

Member
Hey OP, remember to stand up and walk around at least once a day between 4 chan sessions. Showers are important to and promote good hygiene.
 
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AJUMP23

Gold Member
I don't think wanting to save money is greed. Greed implies a desire to want more than the next person. Saving money is stewardship. I think if you are miserly with your money that can be a form of greed. I invest, I'm not greedy but I do want my investments to perform.
 

Hudo

Member
Just buy the 150-dollar season pass and get "free" soda. It's easy my guy

lol
No season passes in Theme Park, tho. I believe there's a "pay the entrance fee and be free to ride everything" option in some scenarios in Rollercoaster Tycoon, however.
 

Roxkis_ii

Member
I've read the op twice and I'm still not comprehending what they're trying to communicate. Could someone explain it like I'm 5?

Edit Asked Google Bard to break it down:


The post on the gaming forum is about the price of video games and how it is affected by the competition between consumers and producers.

The author is arguing that both consumers and producers are always trying to maximize their outcome, which means getting the best deal possible. For consumers, this means paying the lowest price possible, and for producers, this means charging the highest price possible.

The author then goes on to say that the price of video games is generally deflationary, meaning that prices have been falling over time, even when you account for inflation. This is because the gaming market is very competitive, with many different companies producing games. This competition forces companies to keep their prices low in order to attract customers.

The author then contrasts the gaming market with the GPU market, which is an example of an uncompetitive market. There are only a few companies that produce GPUs, and this lack of competition allows them to charge higher prices.

The author then concludes by saying that "greed" does not explain why the price of video games is falling. Greed is simply the desire to maximize one's outcome, and both consumers and producers are greedy. Instead, the author argues that the price of video games is falling because of the competitive nature of the market.
To break down the post in more detail:
  • "Cope and seethe because I'm correct." This is a common phrase used online to taunt someone who disagrees with you. The author is using it here to say that they are confident that they are right about their argument.
  • "Both sides will always seek to maximize their outcome." This is the author's main argument. They are saying that both consumers and producers are always trying to get the best deal possible.
  • "I will always seek to pay the lowest price possible, producers of goods will always charge the max they can." This is an example of the author's argument in practice. Consumers want to pay the lowest price possible, and producers want to charge the highest price possible.
  • "Depending on market conditions that price might be closer to the consumer's prefered price (which is $0) or the producer's preferred price." This is the author's way of saying that the price of goods and services is determined by the market. If the market is very competitive, then the price will be closer to what consumers want to pay. If the market is not competitive, then the price will be closer to what producers want to charge.
  • "Since gaming is a very competitive market, the prices have generally been deflationary and haven't even kept up with inflation." This is the author's evidence to support their argument that the price of video games is falling. They are saying that the gaming market is very competitive, and this competition has been driving prices down.
  • "The GPU market on the other hand is a good example of what an uncompetitive market can look like." This is the author's contrasting example. They are saying that the GPU market is not competitive, and this lack of competition has allowed companies to charge higher prices.
  • "Greed doesn't explain anything because we are all outcome maximizing all the time, therefore it cannot explain changes in price." This is the author's conclusion. They are saying that "greed" does not explain why the price of video games is falling, because both consumers and producers are greedy. Instead, the author argues that the price of video games is falling because of the competitive nature of the market.
Overall, the post is making a valid point about the economics of the gaming market. The author is correct that both consumers and producers are always trying to maximize their outcome, and that this competition drives prices down.

 
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OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
No season passes in Theme Park, tho. I believe there's a "pay the entrance fee and be free to ride everything" option in some scenarios in Rollercoaster Tycoon, however.
Oh. I thought you were talking about a literal irl theme park. Derp!

pepsi GIF
 

Topher

Gold Member
I don't think wanting to save money is greed. Greed implies a desire to want more than the next person. Saving money is stewardship. I think if you are miserly with your money that can be a form of greed. I invest, I'm not greedy but I do want my investments to perform.

I think the problem with this thread is the misuse of the word "greed". Typically a company will charge a price that they believe is acceptable to consumers so that consumers are comfortable in buying that product. That's not greed. Just a matter of supply and demand. A company who has a monopoly in an industry and can force people to pay an exorbitant price, that is greed. The OP acts like every transaction is a negotiation where both sides are trying to squeeze every penny to their favor. Just doesn't work that way. A company charges a price and the consumer either buys at that price or waits for a sale. Neither of these are examples of "greed".
 

Hudo

Member
Oh. I thought you were talking about a literal irl theme park. Derp!

pepsi GIF
Theme Park, baby!

4044473-theme-park-do6uiym.jpg
10127039-theme-park-dvqihd.png


However, I heavily recommend Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 (via Open RCT2), it's by fucking far the best theme park sim (and a great building game in its own right):
scr2akdkh.jpg

scr4u7cd8.jpg
 
what is the consumer equivalent of hiring a team of psychologists who weaponize the psychological sciences in order to get customers addicted and willing to constantly bleed themselves in predatory cash shops? buying used in the second-hand market, perhaps?
 

Fbh

Member
True to an extent.
If people were ONLY looking to pay as little as possible than games would sell like shit at launch as everyone would wait a couple of years to get them at a steep discount, through a bundle or on some Ps+ style subscription service.
And yet we consistently see games having their biggest sales numbers during launch, when they are usually in their worst state and at their most expensive
 

Guilty_AI

Member
what is the consumer equivalent of hiring a team of psychologists who weaponize the psychological sciences in order to get customers addicted and willing to constantly bleed themselves in predatory cash shops? buying used in the second-hand market, perhaps?
Installing and uninstalling games as of last week
 
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