SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Sega's only had one hit system out of seven. I seriously doubt they'd be around.
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If PlayStation1 Never Happened....
- Thread starter jhmtehgamr20xx
- Start date
Sega's only had one hit system out of seven. I seriously doubt they'd be around.
SolidSnakex
Member
But it seemed like Sega was particularly concerned about the PSone, and for good reason. They could look at the 3DO and see it was selling terribly, so it was likely never a real threat, and they were going to have a headstart of more than a year on the N64. So the PSone was their real concern because they were going to head to head with it for the most part.
I'm mostly pointing that out because of how ridiculous the idea is of the industry being better had Sony never entered it. I think that mostly comes from some people wanting to believe that Sega would still be around were it not for the PSone. But the Saturn was still a mess of a console. It was a pain in the ass to develop for at a time when many developers were just starting to work with 3D. That would've been a shitty combination for gamers and developers.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
3DO had an uncertain sales future when the Saturn was coming out, and Sony did not sell bucket loads out the gate. So to say the PSone were there real concern is silly. It's not one thing, it was mutiple things that lead to the Saturn 3d CPu.
I never said the industry would be better if Sony entered it, but it would be different because like it or not the 3DO was in the same position with similar advantages even when it screwed up before PSone took its place in terms of 3D consoles.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
No yes they would have. Sega was going to have the same issues regardless..
Isleofsancroy
Banned
The first one is silly because 3DO. Saying no CG? The only thing that would have maybe not existed was maybe FFVII. Even then it probably would have moved to the 3DO. Naughty Dog was on the 3DO as well and Crash had nothing really to do with Sony but universal, Metal gear was planned for 3DO but scrapped. Games could have been turned on without games before.
JordanN
Banned
The arcade scene was also on the decline. They were going to die at one point.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
You're saying Square would've preferred getting less money b/c of tighter licensing fees, paying for cartridges, and gimping out on FMV and having to rely on blurry 3D given N64 was not a 2D powerhouse and FFVII used lots of pre-rendered 3D backgrounds as 2D backdrops?
I don't think they'd be that bull-headed. Enix would've cleaned them out in Japan for certain, b/c Enix would've definitely went with Saturn if PS1 wasn't a thing. You're also ignoring that w/o PS1, there would've been no surprise launch, and that would've helped Saturn a lot in the West.
No-PS1 Sega might've been better equipped to transition arcade dev resources to the console side, one can only hope.
Well it's not like N64 would've been much better. In fact I'm under the impression N64 was even more difficult to develop for than Saturn, it just happens N64 had better hardware to compensate.
Sega was not known to have made Saturn intentionally difficult to program for, something Nintendo outright boasted about w/ N64 at some point (there's a quote somewhere about it, I'd have to find it some time).
Isleofsancroy
Banned
No i am saying is in an event of no playstation the solution was the 3DO. In fact, without Playstation 3Do would have probably bested Saturn inits home country.
All those CD games would have been put on here instead.
largely agree.
Most of the large CD based games would've went to the Saturn. Some of the games would've ended up on the N64 instead though.
Developers that wanted large games & to not pay the fees to get cartridges manufactured, would've went to the Saturn instead. Without the easy to program for PS1 as an alternative, if they still wanted large scale games they would've had to learn how to code for Saturn's multiple CPUs.
So yeah. If Playstation 1 never happened, I think Sega would still be in the console business, and Microsoft would not have made... at least not in 2001 made the Xbox.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Honestly, I have a RE-HE-EEALY hard time believing that.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
3d cards were not exactly cheap, and rarely ever included in most pcs you'd find in your average shop.
How the hell did we get from the Playstation being a Mega CD style SNES addon, to being a machine with the combined strengths of a Playstation plus N64?
If the SNES Playstation had happened, it's pretty unlikely the N64 would have arrived any quicker, meaning that if most of these PS1 game were still actually being made on a similar timescale, the Saturn would have stood to pick most of them up in the N64's absense. It was already seeing most of the important early software even with the existence of the PS1, such as Toshinden, Destruction Derby, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Wipeout (which may not have existed tbh) etc. These titles only dried up once it was clear that the PS1 was going to bury it. Without the PS1 there, a large number of PS1 purchasers would have probably bought a Saturn for the same games they bought a PS1 for, but didn't because they could actually just buy a PS1.
Sega entered a market that Nintendo had on lockdown. They were having to port other people's games to their platform, because the studios themselves couldn't do so without forfeiting their rights to make games for Nintendo's machines. The Genesis was the result of a lot of momentum building finally paying off. They would have probably have been fine if Sony wasn't there to sell directly to their market, only more effectively.
Neff
Member
There was nothing wrong with Sega's systems other than the fact that there were too many of them, and that wasn't the reason they were pushed out of the market. The reason was deterrents resulting in Sega's hardware redundancy, most notably in the shape of NES, PSone and PS2. If they'd been able to solely represent the magic combo of CD format + high performance polys at the time Sony did (although it was allegedly a reaction to PSX that led them to cramming 3D chips into Saturn), then they certainly wouldn't have had the problems that they did with Saturn/Dreamcast, and would very likely have avoided needing to go software-only.
But like I said, I think it's important to acknowledge just how well Sony played their hand back then, and I don't think Sega would ever have been able to manage that level of success in any situation. PSone was a legit phenomenon.
Makes me wonder if Microsoft would have bothered to make the Xbox if the Playstation never existed. I almost think Nintendo would have held on to Rare, but I heard Activision was next in line to get Rare. That studio was doomed no matter what happened, sadly.
It's hard to say how different things would have been. What games wouldn't exist, and if Sega would still be making consoles?
It's hard to say how different things would have been. What games wouldn't exist, and if Sega would still be making consoles?
The business model was genius for 3DO company?
3DO lost money every year until they sold the M2 project to Panasonic and exited the hardware market!
3DO had some traits in common with PS1 and Saturn but it could never replace the role PS1 had even if Sony never release its system.
What's really impressive about how PS1 unfolded is that not only the plan was smart and undermined what were the rules for gaming companies like Nintendo and Sega (something3DO tried to do but with a failed business model) but
for the first time an electronic conglomerate really put its full weight behind a console and believed in it (although even inside Sony not every managers were confided in PS1 success).
That's Ken Kutaragi (with the help of Ohga) decisive contribution IMO.
Sure Panasonic and NEC tried their hand with console but never achieve anything comparable to Sony (although NEC's PC Engine was widely popular in Japan and was the CD base console of reference until PS1 and Saturn were released).
3DO could never had that leisure simply because with the business model adopted by the 3DO company there were no incentive for hardware manufacturer to really push the system in the same way Sony did.
Panasonic understood it and bought M2 project but then Matsushita had a change in corporate structure and was worry about competition after N64 launched a few months before thus cancelled the system before the launch.
N64 could have been disc based but the disc would have looked this way:
The adoption of the cartridges for N64 was dictated to Nintendo by economics reasons and to a lesser extent gameplay reason (loading time).
Nintendo wanted to have the full control on the media the games were print on (and by ditching the CD system they cut the cost of the N64).
Source?
I've heard this rumor before but never seen proof of it.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
Seems easy to believe looking at trends and sales data.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
The business model was genius for 3DO company?
3DO lost money every year until they sold the M2 project to Panasonic and exited the hardware market!
3DO had some traits in common with PS1 and Saturn but it could never replace the role PS1 had even if Sony never release its system.
What's really impressive about how PS1 unfolded is that not only the plan was smart and undermined what were the rules for gaming companies like Nintendo and Sega (something3DO tried to do but with a failed business model) but
for the first time an electronic conglomerate really put its full weight behind a console and believed in it (although even inside Sony not every managers were confided in PS1 success).
That's Ken Kutaragi (with the help of Ohga) decisive contribution IMO.
Sure Panasonic and NEC tried their hand with console but never achieve anything comparable to Sony (although NEC's PC Engine was widely popular in Japan and was the CD base console of reference until PS1 and Saturn were released).
3DO could never had that leisure simply because with the business model adopted by the 3DO company there were no incentive for hardware manufacturer to really push the system in the same way Sony did.
Panasonic understood it and bought M2 project but then Matsushita had a change in corporate structure and was worry about competition after N64 launched a few months before thus cancelled the system before the launch.
N64 could have been disc based but the disc would have looked this way:
The adoption of the cartridges for N64 was dictated to Nintendo by economics reasons and to a lesser extent gameplay reason (loading time).
Nintendo wanted to have the full control on the media the games were print on (and by ditching the CD system they cut the cost of the N64).
Source?
I've heard this rumor before but never seen proof of it.
You don't understand how this works, 3Do stayed a float because they were making 4x the revenue, the business model was only really bad for the manufacturers.
3DO could have easily replace the PS1, it had strong following in mutliple countries already numbers excluded by the time Saturn already showed signs of screwing up, this was before the PS1 dropped the mic. If Ps1 was not there to take 3Do's thunder, to the point that even multiplats better on the 3DO sold more on the PSX, the 3Do would have entered with a large library filled with support and it would have just increased, 3Do's price was already the better value compared to the saturn during the Saturn launch let alone a year after it. A lot of PS1 games that were canned for the 3DO went to the PS1. Almost every game taking advantage of the PS1 over the N64 would have been on the 3DO.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
The Xbox was going to come out regardless, the only way they would not have entered is if the PC market exploded instead of fell a bit due to increased console presence. it did not have to be sony.
I also don't understand how one would ignore all other consoles and immediately assume the Saturn would have succeeded. The Saturn was screwing up before the PS1 even caused concern for them, so the screw ups even in the alternate time line would have been the same. There would have been a chance that the 3D Cpu that was thrown on may not have been put in until later, which means most games just would have released on the 3DO or finished releasing on the 3DO if there was no Playstation.
PS1 is my favorite console because it soaked up all that 90s Japanese cd goodness, but I can't help imagining the industry without it being very interesting. I think the Sega Saturn would have received most of those cd games and to put icing on the cake lets say the SNES-CD worked out. All the franchises that are still regarded as classic from that era would be different. Sega would probably still be alive. Nintendo would just be classic Nintendo and would have probably never made the Wii. Honestly, it sounds a lot better than what we got considering that consoles have completely gone to shit now.
I think a large part of why people are ignoring the other consoles, is simply that we were mostly ignoring them back then too. As that generation was starting up, the discussion between all of my friends was whether to go with a Saturn or a Playstation. None of us were talking about getting a 3DO or a CDi or a Jaguar, these machines pretty much didn't exist to any of us. Eventually most of my friends that were leaning towards the Saturn switched to Playstation primarily because it ran the same games better, and had Tekken. If the other machines were more likely to take over the Playstation's position, then you have to wonder why they didn't perform better than Sega with it existing right?
If the game were more likely to be 3DO bound, then why didn't the 3DO see more of the games that were on Playstation, yet the Saturn did? We don't even really know what the performance of the Saturn would have been if it had been released on its own timeline, and its not like much of its actual software used its dual CPU architecture properly anyway. For all we know the performance delta that Sega feared between the Saturn and Playstation may not have been much bigger than what it ended up being anyway. Based on what was actually released for the 3DO, I'm not at all convinced that it would have been significantly less capable. Besides, if the 3DO's hardware was proving to be that much stronger than the Saturn, then they would have logically spooked Sega into changing the machine rather than Sony. As it was, they weren't at all worried about it.
At the end of the day, the Saturn DID get Tomb Raider, and Resident Evil, and Destruction Derby, and Wipeout, and Toshinden, and pretty much anything of note that the 3DO received too. If the Playstation hadn't been there to lessen the relevance of the Saturn's version of these games, the lineup would have been ridiculous when combined with Sega's own output. Maybe if Sony had joined the 3DO program they would have made it something different, but that requires much more to change than what needs to be adjusted to see the Saturn succeeding imo.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Bwahahahahahaha!! No way could you have been around back then. Saturn might've been a dud, but it was still night and day better than the 3DO.
And yes Square would've stayed with Nintendo! They NEVER supported Sega ever, yet some think they would switch suddenly? No, don't think so. They didn't want any of that Genesis money, so they sure as shit wouldn't want Saturn.
Ok, I don't understand how it works.
Let's read someone who should have and who explained what went wrong:
Enter Trip Hawkins, mastermind behind the 3DO.
[Note: "both" refers to Sega and Sony]
Read carefully the last part of the Sony answer, that's exactly why 3DO could never be a PS1.
Here more on the same subject.
At least they realized their business model was broken early on.
Even before Saturn and PS1 were launched in US.
So was "the business model genius for 3DO co"? [Note: "$100M deal" refers to the deal Matsushita struck with 3DO to buy M2 hardware for console purpose]
Yep, all the 3DO Company got from 3DO business were losses.
Source: Next Generation 22 (October 1996)
Or blind faith.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
The Dreamcast would have survived and SEGA might have even released a successor. Without the PlayStation, Sony wouldn't have cemented themselves in the industry and allow the PS2 to become an instant-hit worldwide. SEGA would have been competing with Microsoft and Nintendo, one company that had no mindshare at all with console gamers and another that was losing mainstream fans with each year.
A $100 machine going up against $200/$300 consoles would have been a key point for SEGA, as well as only needing to worry about one machine having the coveted ability to playback DVD's. SEGA could have had an early lead going into the seventh generation, possibly giving Microsoft a run for their money and deteriorating on the 360's newfound success in the US and Europe by a wide margin.
A $100 machine going up against $200/$300 consoles would have been a key point for SEGA, as well as only needing to worry about one machine having the coveted ability to playback DVD's. SEGA could have had an early lead going into the seventh generation, possibly giving Microsoft a run for their money and deteriorating on the 360's newfound success in the US and Europe by a wide margin.
Whilst I don't think Square going to Sega was ever super likely (there was the N64 FFVII prototype after all), I also don't think that them never having supported Sega previously really means anything. Technically they had never really supported anyone else up until then, so moving to Playstation was already an unprecedented change. There's also the fact that prior to the Saturn, Sega had never really offered Square anything on a technical level that Nintendo weren't also providing. The Saturn having CD with the N64 having cartridge would make the situation very different from before. Sega also wasn't pushing Phantasy Star at that time either, and they were also doing extremely well with the Saturn in Japan initially (beating the Playstation for quite awhile before Final Fantasy happened), so comparisons to the Genesis and Master System which got steamrolled in Square's main market don't really tell us much.
GamerMax73
Member
It's an interesting question. Certainly one of those occasions when the world turned on a dime...
Two possible scenarios, either Nintendo didn't spurn Sony in favour of Philips at the 91 (?) CES but still later decided to drop CD from SNES entirely. Or, Ken Kutaragi failed to convince the Sony hierarchy to effectively save face following Nintendo's spurn. As far as I understand it was far from a sure thing, the top people at Sony at the time were pretty anti-gaming.
The Saturn would have been slightly less powerful since Sega did up the spec slightly based on Playstation rumours. But it still would have introduced 3D and CD gaming. The MegaCD, and Virtua Fighter/Virtua Racer arcades pretty much guarantee that. Also Jaguar and 3DO. Also 3DFX were introducing 3D graphics to PC's at around the same time so that move was already happening in the industry any way.
3DO would have been able to hang in there longer, especially following the price cuts to sensible levels. The M2 console might have actually been a thing. Ultimately I think the business model was flawed so I doubt history would have been that much different there.
N64 would have happened all the same. Nintendo have a history of doing things their own way and to their own timescales. Not sure if the Playstation really effected Nintendos hardware plans too greatly. PC's, Saturn, possibly 3DO would have all still been there to push Nintendo down the same 64bit 3D path, and they choose cartridges over CD's anyway.
Dreamcast never would have been a thing, at least not in the way we know it. It's design and hardware came of the back of Saturn's failure. If Saturn never failed so badly then the followup console would have looked a little different.
Likewise with GameCube. Would it have been CD based? Would a successful Sega CD console have been enough to push Nintendo into disks? No Sony DVD console, no PS2. DVD based XBox would also be unlikely. I think Nintendo would have stuck with cartridges.
If you looks at the N64 and Dreamcast game libraries they speak volumes about the respective companies. Nintendo is Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, cute graphics, kids toys. Sega is Virtua, Rally, Crazy Taxi, Daytona, arcade games.
Games like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid would have still happened. It was an era where 80's gamers where becoming adults in their 20's or 30's. 3D and serious gaming was going to happen any way. Games like Flashback, SimCity and Civilization on the Amiga are all evidence of that and they predate Sony by 3-4 years.
I think one of the things that helped Sony, at least in the UK, was the death of Commodore. Pre-Playstation and Windows '95 the Amiga was the main gaming platform, followed by ST then consoles. PC's didn't really start kicking off till Windows 3.1 around '92 time. Just as things started to go bad for Commodore.
I think without Playstation, those 16bit computer bedroom gamers would have turned towards Windows '95 more. If that had happened would Sega have held on past Saturn? Nintendo could be alone in a shrinking market selling cartoon games to 8 year olds.
Although modern, serious, 3D gaming would still have happened, we can't underestimate the impact the Playstation had in reinventing the console market. I don't think either arcade Sega or cartoon Nintendo had it in them to give console gaming the street cred Sony established.
Two possible scenarios, either Nintendo didn't spurn Sony in favour of Philips at the 91 (?) CES but still later decided to drop CD from SNES entirely. Or, Ken Kutaragi failed to convince the Sony hierarchy to effectively save face following Nintendo's spurn. As far as I understand it was far from a sure thing, the top people at Sony at the time were pretty anti-gaming.
The Saturn would have been slightly less powerful since Sega did up the spec slightly based on Playstation rumours. But it still would have introduced 3D and CD gaming. The MegaCD, and Virtua Fighter/Virtua Racer arcades pretty much guarantee that. Also Jaguar and 3DO. Also 3DFX were introducing 3D graphics to PC's at around the same time so that move was already happening in the industry any way.
3DO would have been able to hang in there longer, especially following the price cuts to sensible levels. The M2 console might have actually been a thing. Ultimately I think the business model was flawed so I doubt history would have been that much different there.
N64 would have happened all the same. Nintendo have a history of doing things their own way and to their own timescales. Not sure if the Playstation really effected Nintendos hardware plans too greatly. PC's, Saturn, possibly 3DO would have all still been there to push Nintendo down the same 64bit 3D path, and they choose cartridges over CD's anyway.
Dreamcast never would have been a thing, at least not in the way we know it. It's design and hardware came of the back of Saturn's failure. If Saturn never failed so badly then the followup console would have looked a little different.
Likewise with GameCube. Would it have been CD based? Would a successful Sega CD console have been enough to push Nintendo into disks? No Sony DVD console, no PS2. DVD based XBox would also be unlikely. I think Nintendo would have stuck with cartridges.
If you looks at the N64 and Dreamcast game libraries they speak volumes about the respective companies. Nintendo is Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, cute graphics, kids toys. Sega is Virtua, Rally, Crazy Taxi, Daytona, arcade games.
Games like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid would have still happened. It was an era where 80's gamers where becoming adults in their 20's or 30's. 3D and serious gaming was going to happen any way. Games like Flashback, SimCity and Civilization on the Amiga are all evidence of that and they predate Sony by 3-4 years.
I think one of the things that helped Sony, at least in the UK, was the death of Commodore. Pre-Playstation and Windows '95 the Amiga was the main gaming platform, followed by ST then consoles. PC's didn't really start kicking off till Windows 3.1 around '92 time. Just as things started to go bad for Commodore.
I think without Playstation, those 16bit computer bedroom gamers would have turned towards Windows '95 more. If that had happened would Sega have held on past Saturn? Nintendo could be alone in a shrinking market selling cartoon games to 8 year olds.
Although modern, serious, 3D gaming would still have happened, we can't underestimate the impact the Playstation had in reinventing the console market. I don't think either arcade Sega or cartoon Nintendo had it in them to give console gaming the street cred Sony established.
Think Panasonic would've entered the industry. They almost did anyway with M2.
NEC might've gone a different route with PCFX. I don't know what but maybe not FMV focused.
Sega would've benefitted greatly although Saturn probably would've been a 2D focused machine and launched a year earlier. They'd have probably ended up launching a 3D console in 97/98 anyway to compete with N64 and M2. 3rd parties would've probably backed them more greatly though. FFVII Saturn?
Nintendo would've benefitted too. Not simply from losing less 3rd party support but they might've gotten a Sony sound chip in N64. I still think they would've made the cartridge mistake but it wouldn't have hurt them as bad.
Xbox probably wouldn't have happened either. The only reason MS really entered the industry is because Sony was a potential threat to their Windows empire. Particularly with pre-PS2 launch, Sony was doing a lot of PR talk and fluff demos about how the system could functionally replace computers. Had that not happened, and MS also not lost their console partner with Sega quitting hardware, there probably wouldn't be an Xbox.
And most importantly Jerry Boy 2 on SNES wouldn't have been canceled.
NEC might've gone a different route with PCFX. I don't know what but maybe not FMV focused.
Sega would've benefitted greatly although Saturn probably would've been a 2D focused machine and launched a year earlier. They'd have probably ended up launching a 3D console in 97/98 anyway to compete with N64 and M2. 3rd parties would've probably backed them more greatly though. FFVII Saturn?
Nintendo would've benefitted too. Not simply from losing less 3rd party support but they might've gotten a Sony sound chip in N64. I still think they would've made the cartridge mistake but it wouldn't have hurt them as bad.
Xbox probably wouldn't have happened either. The only reason MS really entered the industry is because Sony was a potential threat to their Windows empire. Particularly with pre-PS2 launch, Sony was doing a lot of PR talk and fluff demos about how the system could functionally replace computers. Had that not happened, and MS also not lost their console partner with Sega quitting hardware, there probably wouldn't be an Xbox.
And most importantly Jerry Boy 2 on SNES wouldn't have been canceled.
From my understanding, PlayStation was going to be a thing with or without Nintendo. Had Nintendo not screwed over Sony (or was Sony screwing over Nintendo?) and had the SNES CD 'Playstation' come out, its success or failure both externally re sales and internally re control and split of licensing fees would have determined the future of both companies.
Let's say that hypothetically Nintendo were willing to cede control and allow Sony to take a piece of the empire that they had built (never going to happen) then the N64 would have been a completely different machine based on Sony technology. Most likely, it would have been a 'PS1 plus' releasing a year or two after the PS1 did. Saturn would exist, less powerful and simpler internally but would have carved a bigger place for itself in the market. The Sony marketing machine likely would not have existed and yet Nintendo's console likely would have dominated just as had the SNES before it. The market would not have expanded as much with Nintendo at the helm at all times and console tech would advance but at a slower rate and optical media would be have been used more 'artistically' (less FMV) under Nintendo's influence. The console market would be more Japan centric, smaller, more niche with arguably better games (in the pure sense of the word) being produced. The PC would have taken on a life of its own as it had pre PS2.
Microsoft may or may not have entered the market. No matter what anyone tells you, they've never been interested in video games as a self contained business. They were terrified of a gaming box becoming the next PC and threatening Windows. At no time was this more real than when Sony entered the market. This is why they partnered with Sega to get Windows software on the Dreamcast and attempted to acquire Nintendo. IMO the tail end of the XB360 and the birth of the XBOne were a true reflection of Microsoft's intent with the Xbox brand from the beginning. Anyway, without Sony's dominance, internal rumours at MS of Linux being employed on Sony's follow up console, etc etc; Xbox would not have happened and Microsoft would have focused on Windows.
Having said all that, I do feel as though the temptation for Sony to break away from Nintendo at one point or another would have been too strong to ignore and an industry similar to what we have today would perhaps have been delayed but inevitable all the same.
Let's say that hypothetically Nintendo were willing to cede control and allow Sony to take a piece of the empire that they had built (never going to happen) then the N64 would have been a completely different machine based on Sony technology. Most likely, it would have been a 'PS1 plus' releasing a year or two after the PS1 did. Saturn would exist, less powerful and simpler internally but would have carved a bigger place for itself in the market. The Sony marketing machine likely would not have existed and yet Nintendo's console likely would have dominated just as had the SNES before it. The market would not have expanded as much with Nintendo at the helm at all times and console tech would advance but at a slower rate and optical media would be have been used more 'artistically' (less FMV) under Nintendo's influence. The console market would be more Japan centric, smaller, more niche with arguably better games (in the pure sense of the word) being produced. The PC would have taken on a life of its own as it had pre PS2.
Microsoft may or may not have entered the market. No matter what anyone tells you, they've never been interested in video games as a self contained business. They were terrified of a gaming box becoming the next PC and threatening Windows. At no time was this more real than when Sony entered the market. This is why they partnered with Sega to get Windows software on the Dreamcast and attempted to acquire Nintendo. IMO the tail end of the XB360 and the birth of the XBOne were a true reflection of Microsoft's intent with the Xbox brand from the beginning. Anyway, without Sony's dominance, internal rumours at MS of Linux being employed on Sony's follow up console, etc etc; Xbox would not have happened and Microsoft would have focused on Windows.
Having said all that, I do feel as though the temptation for Sony to break away from Nintendo at one point or another would have been too strong to ignore and an industry similar to what we have today would perhaps have been delayed but inevitable all the same.
I enjoyed my PS1 and PS2 greatly but man.. the fanboy circle jerk in here is kind of scary. Anyway:
1) Mature gaming was already happening on PC way before than in consoles, in fact there are some obscure/dark/mature games on the snes
2) N64 was a flop not because Nintendo was banning mature games on the platform, it was a flop because Nintendo stubborn decision to keep cartridges around (extremely expensive storage solution at the time)
3) Someone else would have filled the Mature gaming market, because money.
1) Mature gaming was already happening on PC way before than in consoles, in fact there are some obscure/dark/mature games on the snes
2) N64 was a flop not because Nintendo was banning mature games on the platform, it was a flop because Nintendo stubborn decision to keep cartridges around (extremely expensive storage solution at the time)
3) Someone else would have filled the Mature gaming market, because money.
Schweinehund
Member
MS or another big electronic or software western company would have still entered the market, maybe even earlier.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
I have to dispel this narrative for a second: Nintendo did not "dominate" 4th gen. They dominated Japan, yes, and I think Japan was still a bigger market than Europe at that time, but Sega was dominating the NA and European markets throughout most of that gen. It wasn't until holiday 1994 the SNES even began to overtake Genesis in NA. Don't think that ever happened in Europe.
Then there's also ROTW markets like Brazil to take into account, where both systems sold and pretty well I'd add. I don't know the hard, exact numbers, but this is what I'm aware of reading items I've come across before and brief numbers that have popped up here and there, someone more informed could go in to verify or discount any of these claims but I feel pretty confident in them.
Total sales (shipment) divided by region (Japan, America, Europe) until March 1993.
Note:
Mega Drive was called Genesis in America.
Super Famicom was called Super Nintendo in Europe and Super NES in America.
Code:
Nintendo
92(03) 93(03) (Diff)
Famicom 17.39m 18.13m (+0.74m)
Super Famicom 4.49m 8.64m (+4.15m)
Game Boy 7.16m 8.97m (+1.81m)
NES (Worldwide) 39.01m 41.80m (+2.79m)
NES (America) 30.14m 33.29m (+3.15m)
Game Boy (International) 15.49m 21.48m (+5.99m)
Game Boy (America) 7.39m 11.12m (+3.73m)
Game Boy (Other) 8.10m 10.36m (+2.26m)
Super NES 3.35m 8.96m (+5.61m)
Super Nintendo 0.19m 3.46m (+3.27m)
Sega
Mega Drive 2.60m 3.00m (+0.40m)
Game Gear 0.60m 0.90m (+0.30m)
Mega CD 0.20m 0.28m (+0.08m)
Genesis 3.00m 7.00m (+4.00m)
Mega Drive (Europe) 1.20m 5.40m (+4.20m)
Master System 3.50m 6.20m (+2.70m)
Game Gear (America) 0.60m 1.40m (+0.80m)
Game Gear (Europe) 0.70m 2.10m (+1.40m)
NEC
CD·ROM (Duo included?) 1.00m 1.50m (+0.50m)
PC Engine (Hu card only models?) 3.65m 3.82m (+0.17m)
PC Engine Duo 0.30m 0.60m (+0.30m)
Source: Famitsu
Iva Demilcol
Member
So, according to the comments of many of you, it would've been a better world we didn't have the chance to see. :'(
Isleofsancroy
Banned
I never said the 3DO was green, I said the 3DO Made more money than the other companies. Licensing and royalty fees were the majority of 3DO income. Thanks fir showing you had no idea what you were saying.
Royalties,
Royalties,
Ok, I understand how it works.
Let's read someone who should have and who explained what went wrong:
Enter Trip Hawkins, mastermind behind the 3DO.
[Note: "both" refers to Sega and Sony]
Read carefully the last part of the Sony answer, that's exactly why 3DO could never be a PS1.
Here more on the same subject.
At least they realized their business model was broken early on.
Even before Saturn and PS1 were launched in US.
So was "the business model genius for 3DO co"? [Note: "$100M deal" refers to the deal Matsushita struck with 3DO to buy M2 hardware for console purpose]
Yep, all the 3DO Company got from 3DO business were losses.
Source: Next Generation 22 (October 1996)
Or blind faith.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
Read the last part? You mean when they said directly Saturn screwed up? I mean 3DO was outpacing the Saturn a bit after launch, Playstation killed the 3RD. 3DO lost and got games cancelled. Even PC multiplats sega went PC only because of the 3DO situation, this was in 1995 late. Without PS1, the Saturn would have no advantage and possibly would have nit bothered with 3Rd out the gate with the CPU. N64 may have had a better chance but would have still been late with the same issues.
Ok, I don't understand how it works.
Let's read someone who should have and who explained what went wrong:
Enter Trip Hawkins, mastermind behind the 3DO.
[Note: "both" refers to Sega and Sony]
Read carefully the last part of the Sony answer, that's exactly why 3DO could never be a PS1.
Here more on the same subject.
At least they realized their business model was broken early on.
Even before Saturn and PS1 were launched in US.
So was "the business model genius for 3DO co"? [Note: "$100M deal" refers to the deal Matsushita struck with 3DO to buy M2 hardware for console purpose]
Yep, all the 3DO Company got from 3DO business were losses.
Source: Next Generation 22 (October 1996)
Or blind faith.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
Yes it was genius because 3DO basically secured itself from dying off. Early by making the manufactures suffer losses they could handle. When 3DO went Software almost every one knew they were going to die.
Ok, I don't understand how it works.
Let's read someone who should have and who explained what went wrong:
Enter Trip Hawkins, mastermind behind the 3DO.
[Note: "both" refers to Sega and Sony]
Read carefully the last part of the Sony answer, that's exactly why 3DO could never be a PS1.
Here more on the same subject.
At least they realized their business model was broken early on.
Even before Saturn and PS1 were launched in US.
So was "the business model genius for 3DO co"? [Note: "$100M deal" refers to the deal Matsushita struck with 3DO to buy M2 hardware for console purpose]
Yep, all the 3DO Company got from 3DO business were losses.
Source: Next Generation 22 (October 1996)
Or blind faith.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
Incorrect, 3DO was constantly seen as a likely item. But the time 3DO dropped to low low prices, Playstation already peaches the 3DO and PC devs went PC only with some exceptions.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
Anecdotal evidence. Many people talked about the 3DO but could not a affird it, but was covered by magazines anyway. People were talking about it all the time, even in other countries. While only a thing in NA Jaguar was all over the country when AVP was out. Sales=/= people ignoring.
The Saturn would've been the main beneficiary and the N64 vs Saturn generation would've probably been a stalemate worldwide as publishers pushed to release games on the Saturn due to the cheaper costs and quicker time to print games. But the N64 would've benefited also due to superior graphics, 4-player, and also would've benefited from heavier focus from publishers/developers as the Saturn wouldn't have gotten everything from the vacuum that Sony left.
The following generation after that would've been epic. Sega would not have bled out and left the console business due to the Saturn's relative success, and the Dreamcast and Gamecube probably would've turned out very different in this alternate universe.
Microsoft would've never entered the console business since they only entered to prevent Sony from taking over the living room. It'd still be Nintendo vs. Sega today.
The following generation after that would've been epic. Sega would not have bled out and left the console business due to the Saturn's relative success, and the Dreamcast and Gamecube probably would've turned out very different in this alternate universe.
Microsoft would've never entered the console business since they only entered to prevent Sony from taking over the living room. It'd still be Nintendo vs. Sega today.
Gamesadict
Member
Having played first on SNES and then N64, I would have never been introduced to so many games and new genres. To be honest, considering we later owned a PS2, I don't think I would be into gaming nowadays.
I also think tech would have been pushed much slower.
I also think tech would have been pushed much slower.
Firstly, I just want to state that you do some of the worst quoting and double (quintuple!) posting I have ever seen on this forum.
Yes what I stated about my friends considerations back then were anecdotal. What wasn't anecdotal on the other hand was the rest of my post. The Saturn sold more than the 3DO did. The Saturn didn't have all its games cancelled the second the Playstation appeared on the scene, like the 3DO did. The Saturn didn't have its specs changed in response to the 3DO in the way that it did for the Playstation. The Saturn (and its software) received immensely more magazine coverage than the 3DO did. Sega was already a household name in gaming (with strong third party connections) unlike anyone involved with the 3DO.
Why do you believe that the 3DO would have received the majority of the important Playstation software, and that the Saturn wouldn't, even though in reality early on in the generation the Saturn actually did, whilst the 3DO was seeing essentially nothing? Why was there zero faith in the 3DO at this point, yet plenty in the Saturn if the momentum for the console was as strong as you claim? Can you show me any 3D games for the 3DO that suggest it would definitely have been more capable than the Saturn in the absence of the Playstation? Because all the software I see is basically a halfway measure between 2D and 3D, which sounds like what Sega would have gone with.. and with the fact that they would have intended to port their arcade titles over, I would have no problems believing their machine would have handled these sorts of games better.
I'm seriously struggling to see where your faith in the 3DO is coming from, because it's so far detached from the console's reality. It's easy to look at the Saturn and think "with no Playstation around, this machine would have been the shit". It's a lot harder to do the same with the 3DO, which is why it and its software library are largely forgotten today.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
I have a feeling Nintendo and Sega would still be on top, and The Xbox would never have happened.
As such it's tough to imagine FPS absolutely invading the console space. We would have less shooters, and colorful mascot platformers would still be flourishing.
EA wouldn't be the giant they are today, nor would Activision. Japanese developers would still dominate the console space.
As such it's tough to imagine FPS absolutely invading the console space. We would have less shooters, and colorful mascot platformers would still be flourishing.
EA wouldn't be the giant they are today, nor would Activision. Japanese developers would still dominate the console space.
SolidSnakex
Member
I think it's likely that it would've still taken off. That genre just needed better hardware and neither the 32 or 64bit consoles were really suited for it. So things would've been ready once that next cycle it. Of course there's a question of whether or not dual analog controllers would've happened that next cycle, as they're also critical in that genre working on consoles.
Not if things went the way they did as the 32/64bit gen happened. That genre was on its way out by the end of that gen. Mostly because it's a genre that started to become less about platforming and more about a massive collection mission.
EA became big because of their sports domination, and nothing would've changed that. They were already a big deal during the 16bit era.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Thnx for this; it was very useful. Maybe "dominate" wasn't the right word (even if I only meant NA), but it wasn't like SNES was curb-stomping Genesis in the Western markets either. They were pretty well matched given these numbers and Genesis was also available since 1989.
Software numbers would also be pretty interesting for this.
I think instead of dual-analog controllers, mouse and keyboard would be aggressively pushed in lieu of them, which actually would've worked out a lot better for the genre on consoles and as a whole I assume.
The fighting game community already spends like crazy on dedicated arcade sticks, I don't see how serious FPS players and fans wouldn't of parted a few dozen dollars for keyboards and mouse, even if proprietary (that wouldn't be an issue come 7th gen since, yep, USB ports).
petran79
Banned
even today unfortunately:
mature gaming on PC:
mature gaming on consoles:
consoles are still too conservative to really appear to grown ups, especially concerning religious and erotic issues. this holds video gaming narrative back. Japan may have escaped with religious issues on consoles but not when their games were licensed to the west
Tidus_Great
Banned
I dont think gaming would be anywhere near as big. Sony evolved gaming into a more story driven medium at least for consoles.