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[masud]

Black clubs usually have the strictest dress codes in my experience. But yeah dress codes can be abused for racist purposes. I was once barred from a bar in NYC because my jeans were too baggy. Only thing I had the least baggy jeans of the group I was with (three white guys who would have been let in if not for me).

Look, I don't care about this hypothetical question enough to really get into this, but the bottom line is that if you outlaw dorags, baggy pants, and fitted hats in your club, you're doing it specifically to keep black people out, and I don't care how you spin it.

Not the black people that don't dress like that. Also, plenty of white people dress like fools too.

 

[WickedAngel]

NVM, I didn't realize we were speaking of exclusions, not mandatory outfits lol )

*Edit*

God, I see this has already turned into another "That's racist!" contest. I'm beginning to wonder if some of you are even capable of having a discussion without alluding to some hidden racist agenda. It's no wonder that some of you are so bitter; some of you are constantly looking for a topic to tag the "Racist!" flag on. Do you live your real lives this way as well?

I also like the fact that some of you seem to believe that you're allowed to make statements about black culture (Without any real evidence to back it up), so long as it serves your own purpose, while getting on my ass for making a remark about prevailing black culture in the other thread.

 

[Kitschkraft]

And I'm trying to tell you that no race is handcuffed to one specific style, which is what you're suggesting.

I'm not suggesting that, I'm suggesting that specific styles are at least partially handcuffed to cultures.

Specific cultures are at least partially handcuffed to specific races.

This is so common sense and noticable to black people......most blacks know which clubs to avoid and which they are welcomed in.

You're nurturing stereotypes.

Italian people eat pasta and drink wine with their meals.

Am I nurturing stereortypes? Or are you just being PC?

 

[BigGreenMat]

Look, I don't care about this hypothetical question enough to really get into this, but the bottom line is that if you outlaw dorags, baggy pants, and fitted hats in your club, you're doing it specifically to keep black people out, and I don't care how you spin it.

Look, if you think all these black people are disenfranchised by dress codes why don't you open up a club that has a dress code which specifies no collared shirts, no dress shoes, not fitted clothes, and no slacks. Baggy clothes only, boots or sneakers optional, headwear encouraged. Bet your own money on it and see how it goes.

 

[djtiesto]

Black clubs usually have the strictest dress codes in my experience. But yeah dress codes can be abused for racist purposes. I was once barred from a bar in NYC because my jeans were too baggy. Only thing I had the least baggy jeans of the group I was with (three white guys who would have been let in if not for me).

Not the black people that don't dress like that. Also, plenty of white people dress like fools too.

I've gotten barred at a shithole bar on the Bowery (forgot the name, it was near Bar None and has since closed) for wearing jeans that were "too baggy" as well... I'm white and my jeans weren't baggy at all though... Dress codes suck, I like to dress for comfort when I go to a club (especially if I'm gonna be dancing for 5 hours straight), thankfully where I typically go, jeans, sneakers, and a t-shirt are fine.

 

[masud]

Liara I really don't know what you're talking about you're more likely to get into a 'white' club in a durag and white tee than you are a 'black' one.

 

[Kitschkraft]

I wouldn't want white people wearing that shit in my club either.

LMAO...this is like the "Straight men can't marry other straight men" argument...full of shit, and it's only purpose is to conceal true intentions.

But yeah dress codes can be abused for racist purposes.

All I'm really trying to say.

Look, if you think all these black people are disenfranchised by dress codes why don't you open up a club that has a dress code which specifies no collared shirts, no dress shoes, not fitted clothes, and no slacks. Baggy clothes only, boots or sneakers optional, headwear encouraged. Bet your own money on it and see how it goes.

What are you trying to say?

Maybe we should have just opened up our own restuarants as well??

To be honest, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, however, understand that your mentality leads down the road of cultural independence, political soviergnty, and complete self reliance.

 

[KevinCow]

Women - No shirts allowed

 

[bishoptl]

Yes, absolutely. After years of bouncing, I'd insist on it.

A dress code is no guarantee to keep out the assholes, but it does raise the level of nightclub discourse. People who take the time and effort to dress up before going out are less likely to start nonsense.

Treat your place like it deserves respect, and that's what you'll get.

 

[Koshiba]

I think dress codes in night clubs are a good thing. The clubs I've gone to all have dress codes. If you look like some kinda hoodlum, they won't let you in. The dress code is basically, just dress a little nicer than you normally would so it isn't that bad. If you want to drink somewhere with a wife-beater and jeans hanging off your butt, go to a bar

 

[Kitschkraft]

Liara I really don't know what you're talking about you're more likely to get into a 'white' club in a durag and white tee than you are a 'black' one.

Fair enough, doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm trying to say though.

I disagree completely however, I notice that black clubs are more likely to ban more gang related styles (Actual gang related, not just urban dress styles). Things such as monotonous, bright colours, certain types of hates, etc.

White club just straight up don't want you bringing any urban swag into the joint.

 

[borghe]

Yes, absolutely. After years of bouncing, I'd insist on it.

A dress code is no guarantee to keep out the assholes, but it does raise the level of nightclub discourse. People who take the time and effort to dress up before going out are less likely to start nonsense.

Treat your place like it deserves respect, and that's what you'll get.

qftmft.

Anyone who says no doesn't know the first thing about business and clientele.. and all the best nightclubs in any city implement a dress code, whether plainly stated or simply just giving preferred clients the quick path in and the others stand in line all night. Although it's not even about "least likely to start shit". Those dressing up are those most inclined to soak up the atmosphere. buy drinks, buy others drinks, tell their other friends who will do the same.

I can think of every bad experience I've had in a bar or club, and most of them you could see the participants a mile away based on how they were dressed and how they carried themselves (which is also usually a prerequisite for getting into the better clubs).

edit - or to sum it up a little quicker, if it looks like trash and walks and talks like trash....

 

[border]

LMAO...this is like the "Straight men can't marry other straight men" argument...full of shit, and it's only purpose is to conceal true intentions.

The intent is to keep out douchebags and people that will start shit.

A dress code is no guarantee to keep out the assholes, but it does raise the level of nightclub discourse. People who take the time and effort to dress up before going out are less likely to start nonsense.

Why do you hate black people?

 

[masud]

Fair enough, doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm trying to say though.

I disagree completely however, I notice that black clubs are more likely to ban more gang related styles (Actual gang related, not just urban dress styles). Things such as monotonous, bright colours, certain types of hates, etc.

White club just straight up don't want you bringing any urban swag into the joint.

IDK white clubs usually let people wear jeans and sneakers when allot of black clubs don't. At least thats how it is in NYC.

 

[Dali]

I don't think the dress codes that seem to target black people are racist. They are targeting a specific kind of person (black/white or whatever) generally referred to as "riff-raff". I mean it's fine to wear baggy clothes, backwards hats, t-shirts to your ankles, do-rags, and what-not if you are in a casual atmosphere, but if a club wants to be upper-class, attract classy women, and classy-looking (and acting) clients in general, then being picky about who you let in makes sense.

 

[Battlezone]

Dress codes are used to attract WOMEN. Women will not go to a club where men are dressed like hobos. Dress codes attract hotter women, hot women attract more men. It's weird logic but it works.

This. It's not even "weird" logic, it's just common sense. If you don't have women in your establishment, you won't have men. And if you don't have either, you'll be out of business pretty quick.

And this idea that dress codes are racist is pretty laughable. I'm black, don't wear baggy clothes, long t-shirts, or ballcaps. Neither do any of my friends. And-surprise!-none of us have never had a problem getting into any nightclubs. Of course, I can't understand why you wouldn't get dressed up to go out, especially if you're going out to meet women.

 

[NintendosBooger]

I'm not suggesting that, I'm suggesting that specific styles are at least partially handcuffed to cultures.

Specific cultures are at least partially handcuffed to specific races.

This is so common sense and noticable to black people......most blacks know which clubs to avoid and which they are welcomed in.



Italian people eat pasta and drink wine with their meals.

Am I nurturing stereortypes? Or are you just being PC?

Let's stress-test your theory out, then. If my attempt is to keep White people out of my club, what clothing style(s) would I need to bar precisely, since, according to you, "specific cultures are at least partially handcuffed to specific races"?

 

[Rorschach]

Yes, absolutely. After years of bouncing, I'd insist on it.

A dress code is no guarantee to keep out the assholes, but it does raise the level of nightclub discourse. People who take the time and effort to dress up before going out are less likely to start nonsense.

Treat your place like it deserves respect, and that's what you'll get.

Racist!!!


I'll take the opinion of a former bouncer over the average gaffer that doesn't even go out. :|

 

[bishoptl]

Hey, I cherish black people.

 

[elostyle]

Dress-code yes, shape-of-nose or number-of-girls-in-group-code, no.

 

[Kitschkraft]

The intent is to keep out douchebags and people that will start shit.

In other words, aggressive black people?

I don't see why you even want to dance around it, I don't care, I'm just saying how it is more or less. Once again, it's quite common, known, and noticable to black people....this isn't some secret I'm revealing.

I don't think the dress codes that seem to target black people are racist. They are targeting a specific kind of person (black/white or whatever) generally referred to as "riff-raff". I mean it's fine to wear baggy clothes, backwards hats, t-shirts to your ankles, do-rags, and what-not if you are in a casual atmosphere, but if a club wants to be upper-class, attract classy women, and classy-looking (and acting) clients in general, then being picky about who you let in makes sense.

I'm not talking about some night lounge...I'm talking about dance clubs with lots of drinking and socializing going on.

Let's stress-test your theory out, then. If my attempt is to keep White people out of my club, what clothing style(s) would I need to bar precisely, since,

It would be harder to do so, as their is a much larger amount of white people, and due to this, and a few other socio-economic/historical reasons that I won't go into, they inhabit a wider array of cultural niches.

However, say you wanted to ban, hipsters. You would ban tight pants, and buddy holly glasses. And before you even say it, yes, I would consider this subculture to be most a "white thing". Of course, there is blacks who dress the same.

according to you, "specific cultures are at least partially handcuffed to specific races"?

How could this possibly be in question????

Racist!!!

Wow...sooooo hilarious.

Honestly man, c'mon, I'm just trying to be real about this topic. Whites always are accusing blacks of accusing them of racism, but when we are actually trying to discuss some shit without projecting shit on anyone, people always have to act all defensive anyways. I'm not calling anyone in here a racist, I am critiquing a policy that I feel that is based on too many cultural and racial presumptions.

Cot damn, I just want people to start thinking more critically about race and culture, and to move beyond the fucking "he's dressed like a criminal" shit.

I'll take the opinion of a former bouncer over the average gaffer that doesn't even go out. :|

Yeah, because I have 15,000 post here.

 

[Pterion]

Yeah, because I have 15,000 post here.

Cold-blooded!:lol

 

[Like the hat?]

my wifes cousins housband wants to open a night club with a jungle theme. He wants to call it "Jungle Fever" and does not understand why I find it hilarious.

on topic, to get into my nightclub, you would need to have a popped collar and goatee and a tan and cargo shorts and flip-flops with socks. i would call it The Douchebaggery.

 

[djtiesto]

Yes, absolutely. After years of bouncing, I'd insist on it.

A dress code is no guarantee to keep out the assholes, but it does raise the level of nightclub discourse. People who take the time and effort to dress up before going out are less likely to start nonsense.

Treat your place like it deserves respect, and that's what you'll get.

It may be a total anomaly, but I've seen much more general rudeness, more stuffiness (of course), and even more fights started, at places with dress codes than I have at places without them. But maybe we edm fans are just a bunch of peace-loving hippies or are too cracked out to want to start shit

 

[border]

In other words, aggressive black people?

Nope, just idiots of all cultural backgrounds. There's a uniform for dumbasses, and banning the uniform lowers your dumbass quotient.

without projecting shit on anyone

Looking at the above comment, I'd say you're not above "projecting shit" or putting words in someone else's mouth.

 

[AMUSIX]

It really depends on what type of nightclub it is, but for anything partially classy, I'd say a Dress Code is mandatory.

Had this discussion with the gentleman who owns the club near my store (he also owns 3 of the top clubs in San Diego as well as 4 more successful clubs in LA) and he made it very clear that a dress code was much needed. The easiest codes to enforce are things like no jeans, no sweats, no shorts, no underwear showing...you don't have to go culture-specific with things like do-rags and sags.

 

[NintendosBooger]

It would be harder to do so, as their is a much larger amount of white people, and due to this, and a few other socio-economic/historical reasons that I won't go into, they inhabit a wider array of cultural niches.

The example is incomparable as we've gone from targeting a race (Blacks) to targeting various sub-cultures. All right, so according to you, Whites aren't handcuffed to any style -- but Black people are. Fine, what about Hispanics or Asians?

 

[Rorschach]

Honestly man, c'mon, I'm just trying to be real about this topic. Whites always are accusing blacks of accusing them of racism, but when we are actually trying to discuss some shit without projecting shit on anyone, people always have to act all defensive anyways. I'm not calling anyone in here a racist, I am critiquing a policy that I feel that is based on too many cultural and racial presumptions.

I wasn't referring to you. You're the one that's getting defensive here.

Yeah, because I have 15,000 post here.

Again, I wasn't referring to you. You are the average gaffer? And over how long a time did those posts take place? You've only been here since 07. I've been here since 2004. I find it funny that you're so offended over something that didn't refer to you that you had to check up on me. :lol Also, some of us post from work/school. Some of us work from home. OMFGSHOCK!!!!!

 

[Pein]

yes I would

 

[borghe]

it's not targeting black people. It's targeting the ghetto hip hop culture.. it doesn't matter if they're black, white, asian, middle eastern, whatever. and I'm sorry if you're offended that business owners find this culture undesirable, but the culture itself as well as its biggest followers have really done everything they possibly could to bring it on themselves.

you never saw people complaining about racist treatment when it was the hippies or beatnicks... it has nothing to do with race, it's the culture business owners don't want to deal with.

 

[Kitschkraft]

The example is incomparable as we've gone from targeting a race (Blacks) to targeting various sub-cultures.

What?

No, we have been talking about banning particular styles that correlate with a cultural niche inhabited heavily by black people.

I already said that culture was as least partially correlated to race, so I never tried to separate them.

All right, so according to you, Whites aren't handcuffed to any style -- but Black people are. Fine, what about Hispanics or Asians?

For the record (Just so my own argument is more clear), I don't really like your term "handcuffed", I'm not saying that it's anything other then culture and environment. Nobody has to dress a certain way, and nobody should be expected to.

Regardless, to an extent, yes, whites inhabit more variable cultural niches than other races in America. Once again, this is due to various reasons that I will not get into, but mainly due to their large population, and the fact that they tend to live everywhere in America. The largest concentrations of blacks are in the cities however, and those outside of the cities are usually quite influenced by black city culture - See, hiphop. You can also bring in some thing about self-fulfilling prophecies and black culture, but I don't want to get into that either.

"Hispanic" doesn't really mean anything, their is cubans in Florida, Puerto Ricans in new York, and Mexicans in Cali that don't really have much to do with one another.

Asians are a smaller minority that I could not necessarily say have a "style of dress" that I would consider to be specific to Asians.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Dress-codes are a sure sign of a wanky pretentious venue, and you attract a bunch of wankers who are more interested in standing around trying to look pretty than the music.

If you create a music driven venue with a strong music policy, you attract the right crowd anyway.

Dress-codes are a sign of a venue which doesn't know it's music, none of the decent places music-wise that I know have them.

 

[Kitschkraft]

I wasn't referring to you. You're the one that's getting defensive here.

Sorry, for a second it seemed that I had released the swarm, and it looked like you were taking some sort of shot at me. The context of the post seemed like it was a bit of sarcasm directed at me, but I guess it was just something between you and bishop.

Again, I wasn't referring to you. You are the average gaffer? And over how long a time did those posts take place? You've only been here since 07. I've been here since 2004. I find it funny that you're so offended over something that didn't refer to you that you had to check up on me. Also, some of us post from work/school. Some of us work from home. OMFGSHOCK!!!!!

Once again, my mistake.

 

[borghe]

What?

No, we have been talking about banning particular styles that correlate with a cultural niche inhabited heavily by black people.

I already said that culture was as least partially correlated to race, so I never tried to separate them.

regardless of whether the race is heavily tied to the culture or not, you can't call it racist if the discrimination is done solely on cultural participation and nothing at all to do with race. Racist means you are discriminating SOLELY on race. If you let one black person in but not another, the racist card is lost.

apparently in this day and age people are forgetting what racist actually means.

 

[lil smoke]

What?

FWIW you are making sense IMO, but these are the type of nuances that people go out of their way to misunderstand, and blow out of proportion. Either that, or some people are just ignorant in general.... there's also the PC bunch.

 

[MoxManiac]

Yes, the dress code would consist of mandatory sherlock holmes hats like the one RevenantKioku wears.

 

[borghe]

FWIW you are making sense IMO, but these are the type of nuances that people go out of their way to misunderstand, and blow out of proportion. Either that, or some people are just ignorant in general.... there's also the PC bunch.

their is no nuance. you are either discriminating on race or you're not. There is no varying degree of racism. if a bunch of gangster looking black guys aren't allowed into a club, they're going to have a tough time proving racism when the club has plenty of other non-gangster dressed black guys inside.

 

[Kitschkraft]

it's not targeting black people. It's targeting the ghetto hip hop culture.. it doesn't matter if they're black, white, asian, middle eastern, whatever. and I'm sorry if you're offended that business owners find this culture undesirable, but the culture itself as well as its biggest followers have really done everything they possibly could to bring it on themselves.

I'm sorry but can't you see the obvious picture you are painting with this?

"ghetto hiphop culture"....lmao, no comment. I guess that "ghetto" isn't often directed deragatorily to blacks either....:lol

Seriously though, to me, what you're saying would be like "No Coiled Hair" and then saying "I'm not banning black people, just people that don't have straight hair". So you think that if you banned durags, 90 percent of the people hurt by such a rule, are going to be Indian-American?

you never saw people complaining about racist treatment when it was the hippies or beatnicks...

It wasn't racially motivated.

it has nothing to do with race, it's the culture business owners don't want to deal with.

:lol

 

[lil smoke]

their is no nuance. you are either discriminating on race or you're not. There is no varying degree of racism. if a bunch of gangster looking black guys aren't allowed into a club, they're going to have a tough time proving racism when the club has plenty of other non-gangster dressed black guys inside.

ahem I do not think dress codes are racist. Prejudice is a better word.

 

[Kitschkraft]

regardless of whether the race is heavily tied to the culture or not, you can't call it racist if the discrimination is done solely on cultural participation and nothing at all to do with race. Racist means you are discriminating SOLELY on race. If you let one black person in but not another, the racist card is lost.

apparently in this day and age people are forgetting what racist actually means.

Look, I concede the semantic point to you.

Trade out "racism" for "discrimination" in my post.

 

[djtiesto]

Dress-codes are a sure sign of a wanky pretentious venue, and you attract a bunch of wankers who are more interested in standing around trying to look pretty than the music.

If you create a music driven venue with a strong music policy, you attract the right crowd anyway.

Dress-codes are a sign of a venue which doesn't know it's music, none of the decent places music-wise that I know have them.

Excellent post, I fully agree. Hence why I typically stick to those clubs!

 

[WickedAngel]

It's funny Liara; now that it's convenient to your argument, black culture is joined at the hip with the hip hop culture (In which some of the largest stars have became famous for glorifying violence, ignorance, and disrespect of women). You got all over my ass when I pointing this out as being a huge problem among the youth of the black population as a reason for their many problems in society (High dropout rates, increased likelihood of committing/being victim to violence, and increased likelihood of being involved in the justice system).

Now you're changing your tune because you see a certain type of clothing as being linked to the culture, which is now (By your reasoning) linked to black people.

 

[borghe]

I'm sorry but can't you see the obvious picture you are painting with this?

"ghetto hiphop culture"....lmao, no comment. I guess that "ghetto" isn't often directed deragatorily to blacks either....:lol

Seriously though, to me, what you're saying would be like "No Coiled Hair" and then saying "I'm not banning black people, just people that don't have straight hair". So you think that if you banned durags, 90 percent of the people hurt by such a rule, are going to be Indian-American?

would a white guy dressed the same way be turned away? Would a black guy dressed differently be turned away? Your point has officially been debunked. And I SPECIFICALLY mentioned "ghetto" hip hop culture because there is a pretty distinct segregation in the hip hop culture of those who want to embrace the finer points of the culture, and those who want to be thugs (or appear that way).

It wasn't racially motivated.

The same as this isn't.

But, with this reply you've clearly shown that you have no interest in looking at this objectively, and just want to label anyone who looks negatively at the thug/gangsta/whatever hop hop culture as a racist. Of course it has nothing to do with the violence, crime, obscenity, and harassment that is generally perpetuated by that particular segment of the culture..... no, it's that everyone is just a bunch of hillbilly racists. gotcha.

 

[iapetus]

Look, I concede the semantic point to you.

Trade out "racism" for "discrimination" in my post.

But the whole point of a dress code is to discriminate against people who won't conform to it.

 

[borghe]

Look, I concede the semantic point to you.

Trade out "racism" for "discrimination" in my post.

ummmm... yeah, so what? discrimination goes on all the time, and as a business owner you reserve the right to discriminate against anyone you want, as long as it's not based on sex, race, religion, creed, etc. If I were a liquor store owner I wouldn't want someone sitting in the store preaching about the evils of liquor no matter how many 20oz sodas they bought. And if I'm running a black tie affair don't come in looking like a thug, whether it's because your jeans are too baggy or you're wearing a wife beater with your ass crack showing. If you don't like it, go start up your own club where people can dress like that.

 

[Dark Octave]

NVM, I didn't realize we were speaking of exclusions, not mandatory outfits lol )

*Edit*

God, I see this has already turned into another "That's racist!" contest. I'm beginning to wonder if some of you are even capable of having a discussion without alluding to some hidden racist agenda. It's no wonder that some of you are so bitter; some of you are constantly looking for a topic to tag the "Racist!" flag on. Do you live your real lives this way as well?

I also like the fact that some of you seem to believe that you're allowed to make statements about black culture (Without any real evidence to back it up), so long as it serves your own purpose, while getting on my ass for making a remark about prevailing black culture in the other thread.

You're obviously not talking to or about me when it comes to this thread because I haven't said anything much yet but a "yes there should be a dress code", but what you said in that other thread about black culture was clearly racist, and proved you know absolutley nothing about black people at all. Ignorance breeds hate, and I hope yours doesn't build up to that some day.

Your a gun owner, you live in the south, and I'm pretty sure you own a truck. That's at least two, maybe three strikes against you already. :lol You can't help but turn someday.
(I'm just fucking with you...kinda)

Spoiler

Off topic real quick WikedAngel (serious question), what's a good 9mm handgun that looks cool and is of good quality for around $400? I have a redneck friend who insists that I get a gun, and it's actually kind of fun to go shooting at the range, so I'm thinking about it.

 

[lil smoke]

n/m

 

[Kitschkraft]

FWIW you are making sense IMO, but these are the type of nuances that people go out of their way to misunderstand, and blow out of proportion. Either that, or some people are just ignorant in general.... there's also the PC bunch.

Thank you.

I just like to look at racial issues more critically than others, and I think I sorta go over peoples heads sometimes.

I'm just trying to look beyond the "we aren't hanging them, so how is this racist" crap. Look at the juxtoposition of cultural ideas and power in this country people!!!!

their is no nuance. you are either discriminating on race or you're not. There is no varying degree of racism. if a bunch of gangster looking black guys aren't allowed into a club, they're going to have a tough time proving racism when the club has plenty of other non-gangster dressed black guys inside.

I don't want to get too much into this....the 'good little nigga" shit is just as racist as anything else though.

"Gangster looking black guys" is basically just any brutha with a hoody and jeans on...oh wait, clothes that a high percentage of urban blacks wear, go figure!!!!

And I haven't even brought up the fact thay many times, these "keep the gangsters out" dress codes are more or less just safety nets in the first fucking place, yeah, you can get into anywhere dressed in suit and tie in America regardless of what you look like, but don't be naive and act like many of these places just straight up don't want their place being filled with too many blacks.

 

[Dark Octave]

n/m

:lol I saw that.

How did this turn into a racial thread anyway?

 

[WickedAngel]

You're obviously not talking to or about me when it comes to this thread because I haven't said anything much yet but a "yes there should be a dress code", but what you said in that other thread about black culture was clearly racist, and proved you know absolutley nothing about black people at all. Ignorance breeds hate, and I hope yours doesn't build up to that some day.

There is nothing racist about saying that the prevailing black culture among young, black youths today is the hip-hop culture (Specifically, the gangster-rap segment) and outlining the negative connotations of that unfortunate fact. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with role models; there are white kids who immortalize gangster-rap and they, too, are likely to grow up with questionable ethics and an increased likelihood of trouble.

Your a gun owner, you live in the south, and I'm pretty sure you own a truck. That's at least two, maybe three strikes against you already. :lol You can't help but turn someday.
(I'm just fucking with you...kinda)

Living in the south is an unfortunate product of choices my family made before I had enough clout to affect their decision. I live in the south (Now Georgia) specifically because of the HOPE grant that will allow me to go to college for free. I do own a gun, I don't own a truck (I've always preferred cars), and I hate the "Get 'er done" rednecks with trucknutz on their F150/Silverado just as much as the next rational person.

Spoiler

Off topic real quick WikedAngel (serious question), what's a good 9mm handgun that looks cool and is of good quality for around $400? I have a redneck friend who insists that I get a gun, and it's actually kind of fun to go shooting at the range, so I'm thinking about it.

$400 is tough; costs have gone up. I'm a very vocal supporter of the Springfield XD line because of their feature set, build quality, and relatively low cost.