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If you wouldn't date transgender people, where do you begin to regard their gender?

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wildfire

Banned
As I read an article about lesbians being equivicated with being transgender when forming a women's team I've been pondering the contradictions some of us have regarding such people.

How is it my place to advocate to transgender sharing with women something as personal as a bathroom when I wouldn't date someone if I couldn't see them as the gender they know themselves to be?

Obviously there are big differences in each of these three scenarios but how can we function as a society with these types of contradictions?

Addendum #1

When I started this thread I wanted to see if some people would acknowledge their inability to see transgendered individuals as the gender they identify as. I was hoping to eventually move past that talking point and rethink how we regard both them and cis women when talking about this.

This discussion hasn't really moved in a way to transition into the next step so I'll just throw my current thoughts on the solutions out there.

There are many solutions but I feel they mostly range from respecting cisgenders only or respecting both cisgenders and transgenders.

There are already men who and women who see transgenders as their sex only and not their gender. Their viewpoint is that transexuality is a fabrication of the mind and shouldn't be acknowledged as a gender they aren't. Such people shouldn't concern themselves with this topic because it isn't about them.

This topic is about those who lie about their viewpoints on transgenders. When you tell the cis opposite sex to see them as something you personally don't you are disrespecting them and transgenders. To say you will never sleep with a transgender is to deny their gender. Our sexuality is tied into many things but nothing is a stronger factor than our sex and gender.
If your outlook on life is that you are interested in a fucking or forming a relationship with a man or woman it shouldn't matter if they are cis or trans. Physical and mental capacity should matter more in those cases. If your outlook is to form a family it's understandable why there are hurdles now. Personally if I was living in the year 2150 and designer babies was affordable and widely adopted I wouldn't have any reason to see a potential partner as a barrier based on the circumstances of their gender.

We don't live in that world but we don't need to live in a world where we can't be honest with those who want to be treated equally and fairly.

The alternative extreme end is to acknowledge our cis opposite sex partners are right and deny transgenders certain rights based on their sex.
 
where's the contradiction?, some peope like dicks and some pussy, respecting someone does not change that.

that is like saying where's someone is racist for prefering white girls over black girls
 
It's personal preference. We recognize gender as a biological and social construct, but when it comes to romantic preferences, that's sometimes hard to separate.

Like, if I had a best friend who was MTF, I'd respect and honor their gender but would have reservations romantically because of my past associations with them. That's a really difficult cognitive roadblock to overcome when we're talking about romance.
 

Aiustis

Member
Well preferences. Just because you prefer not to date someone does not mean you don't respect them and support their right not to be treated like shit.
 
This is why we need to approach this as a matter of fundamental inalienable rights that function irregardless of how any one individual feels about the subject.
 
Yeah. I don't know if I would date a transgendered person, but my reason is mostly because, at least now, I'm not sure how sex life would be. Odd since I'm a bisexual myself, although if sex isn't a factor I could see myself with a transgender man.

EDIT: Err, I think all current gender stereotypes, good or bad, would apply.They are effectively a different gender in my opinion. No need to segregate even more.
 

Zakalwe

Banned
Well preferences. Just because you prefer not to date someone does not mean you don't respect them and support their right not to be treated like shit.

This.

Not sure why the confusion OP.

EDIT: There's trouble with the "preferences" argument as debate in this thread, but we exist within a flawed society and we're not perfect. Good people can find processing certain things difficult based on years of learning to think a certain way. This isn't an excuse for ignorance, but it's the sad truth that good people can hold on to out-dated views and not be able to move past them.

Lots of people seem very angry about this, and while I understand that too it's not going to help change anything if that anger reamins at the forefront.
 

wildfire

Banned
where's the contradiction?, some peope like dicks and some pussy, respecting someone does not change that.

that is like saying where's someone is racist for prefering white girls over black girls

Well you need to answer this question. Do you think it is ok if transgender people couldn't use the same rooms reserved for one gender?

If you believe they should not I wasn't referring to you being contradictory.
 
How is it a contradiction to prefer to date biological females, as a straight man? I fully support the rights of transgender people; my dating preferences have no bearing on that.
 

Tesseract

Banned
Well you need to answer this question. Do you think it is ok if transgender people couldn't use the same rooms reserved for one gender?

If you believe they should not I wasn't referring to you being contradictory?

i'm not sure how those questions are related, care to elaborate?
 

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Bathrooms having assigned genders is silly anyway. Unless it's a changing room, no one is wiggling their genitals around.
 

Bloodrage

Banned
I don't believe in transgender. If you're dating a man who got his dick removed, you're still dating a man without a dick. Taking hormones won't turn you into a female. If you were born a man, that's what you always will be.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I don't believe in transgender. If you're dating a man who got his dick removed, you're still dating a man without a dick. Taking hormones won't turn you into a female. If you were born a man, that's what you always will be.

Who the hell made you the authroity on what someone is or isn't? I must have missed that memo.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
What does being attracted to someone have anything to do with which gender separated bathroom they use?
 

Malvolio

Member
I don't believe in transgender. If you're dating a man who got his dick removed, you're still dating a man without a dick. Taking hormones won't turn you into a female. If you were born a man, that's what you always will be.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
- Neil deGrasse Tyson
 

shuri

Banned
This thread will end in tears, gaffer-on-gaffer violence, and bans like the last time we tried to discuss this :(
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
This thread will end in tears, gaffer-on-gaffer violence, and bans like the last time we tried to discuss this :(

+1

You know it's gonna go bad the minute you see transgender prefixed by an "a".

This is gonna get super depressing super quickly.
 

jelly

Member
I don't believe in transgender. If you're dating a man who got his dick removed, you're still dating a man without a dick. Taking hormones won't turn you into a female. If you were born a man, that's what you always will be.

Aren't we all females originally. Nipples, that line underneath cocks.
 

Bold One

Member
this will not end well so...

dSkUKzT.gif
 

lifa-cobex

Member
Well preferences. Just because you prefer not to date someone does not mean you don't respect them and support their right not to be treated like shit.

yup

High probability that I wouldn't be attracted to a transgender in the same capacity that I would be attracted to a woman.
It's nothing to do with what you were from birth. It's just if I'm attracted to you or not going by personality and appearance.

If i'm dating a transgender that I really like and discover one night that said person still has a penis, it might put me off said person.
But then it might not. who knows.
Having said that, It wouldn't change if i respected them or not. It's just what I prefer in a partner.

Think ppl look into far too much Ttbh.

This thread will end in tears, gaffer-on-gaffer violence, and bans like the last time we tried to discuss this :(
Probably
 

JC Lately

Member
I don't believe in transgender. If you're dating a man who got his dick removed, you're still dating a man without a dick. Taking hormones won't turn you into a female. If you were born a man, that's what you always will be.

Twelve posts in. That's got to be some kind of record.
 

isny

napkin dispenser
South Park already tackled the bathroom conundrum.

I'll say this, I wouldn't mind sharing the guys bathroom with a girl who associates herself as a man. It don't know why anyone would really have a problem with transgender people in that regard, all you do is relieve yourself and maybe comb your hair in the bathroom. It's not a changing room.
 

Mechazawa

Member
Are we talking about post-op, OP? Because there's a pretty clear reason for why people wouldn't do it pre-op.

That said, this is something I've thought about a few times and I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that I might just be a big fat old hypocrite, exacerbated by the fact that I rarely come in contact with transgender individuals.
 

esms

Member
I probably wouldn't date a transgender person, dick or no dick. I can't exactly articulate why though.

You know what? I've never met a transgender female. Let's chalk me up with, "I don't know."

That doesn't mean that I don't support their quest for equal treatment. And I would use the pronoun that they would identify with.
 
I don't believe in transgender. If you're dating a man who got his dick removed, you're still dating a man without a dick. Taking hormones won't turn you into a female. If you were born a man, that's what you always will be.

This is some straight-up bigotry.

As a hetero cisgendered male I've always found it odd and slightly disconcerting how most people treat it as a given that people like me would avoid dating a MTF. It's never come up, but I don't see why I shouldn't be open to the idea of falling in love with someone just because they're transgender.

I think of that episode of the IT Crowd. If you've seen the show, you know the one. Dude basically meets his perfect match, they're amazing together romantically, sexually and otherwise, but the moment he finds out she's MTF transgender, he freaks out and wants nothing to do with her. The show doesn't treat the joke ad "wow, look at this jerk and his prejudices" either. It's more "wow what a hilariously unfortunate situation for the guy!" As if it's a given that any hetero male would react the way he did. I love the show in general, but that kind of disgusted me.
 

Izuna

Banned
I wouldn't date someone who I knew for certain, before dating, that they couldn't have a child. If something were to happen after we are together then so be it, but I wouldn't settle for less than I am looking for.

This is some straight-up bigotry.

As a hetero cisgendered male I've always found it odd and slightly disconcerting how most people treat it as a given that people like me would avoid dating a MTF. It's never come up, but I don't see why I shouldn't be open to the idea of falling in love with someone just because they're transgender.

I think of that episode of the IT Crowd. If you've seen the show, you know the one. Dude basically meets his perfect match, they're amazing together romantically, sexually and otherwise, but the moment he finds out she's MTF transgender, he freaks out and wants nothing to do with her. The show doesn't treat the joke ad "wow, look at this jek and his prejudices" either. It's more "wow what a hilariously unfortunate situation for the guy!" As if it's a given that any hetero male would react the way he did. I love the show in general, but that kind of disgusted me.

No I disagree. You don't have to be so open when it comes to how you feel about other people. People fall out of love for small reasons and they are free to do so. If someone can't get over the fact that the person they fell in love with was trans then they can't get over it, simple as that. "It's all in the past now" that they have completing their trans doesn't sit well either. It's not disgusting, it just means they're not open for their own feelings.

It would be pretty horrible if it got to the point where people had to give a really good reason and have it approved by others to stop dating someone.

Also in that episode, she said "I used to be a man" and he misunderstood. She was seeing if he was okay with it to begin with and if he HAD known he wouldn't have developed those complicated feelings in the first place.
 

Fink

Member
I don't believe in transgender. If you're dating a man who got his dick removed, you're still dating a man without a dick. Taking hormones won't turn you into a female. If you were born a man, that's what you always will be.

I wonder how many transgender people you've met without knowing any difference.

I don't get how the separation of genders in games / sports / bathrooms and the idea of dating someone who is transgender are related. Dating is one-on-one, bathrooms involve people's paranoia about perverts, and sports are a matter of who might have a biological advantage if a transgender person tries to play on a women's team.

I myself would not turn down a potential partner for being trans.
 

patapuf

Member
South Park already tackled the bathroom conundrum.

I'll say this, I wouldn't mind sharing the guys bathroom with a girl who associates herself as a man. It don't know why anyone would really have a problem with transgender people in that regard, all you do is relieve yourself and maybe comb your hair in the bathroom. It's not a changing room.

Very obviously some people do though. I don't really know what can be done about it. Someone will be uncomfortable.
 

kmax

Member
elena_its_complicated


I think it kind of boils down to personal preference, I suppose. You have people that wouldn't even date people outside their race, and that's okay.

We all have preferences.
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
This is some straight-up bigotry.

As a hetero cisgendered male I've always found it odd and slightly disconcerting how most people treat it as a given that people like me would avoid dating a MTF. It's never come up, but I don't see why I shouldn't be open to the idea of falling in love with someone just because they're transgender.

I think of that episode of the IT Crowd. If you've seen the show, you know the one. Dude basically meets his perfect match, they're amazing together romantically, sexually and otherwise, but the moment he finds out she's MTF transgender, he freaks out and wants nothing to do with her. The show doesn't treat the joke ad "wow, look at this jerk and his prejudices" either. It's more "wow what a hilariously unfortunate situation for the guy!" As if it's a given that any hetero male would react the way he did. I love the show in general, but that kind of disgusted me.


Dude no! Roy is a moron, he's always a moron and we laugh at him, that's the point. He did the same thing with the woman who was in an accident and also made a twat of himself when he did the calendar for the bosseyed.

Don't be insulting the IT Crowd here.
 

Simplet

Member
Can someone photoshop that anime picture with the girl with the pink hair so that it says "How can can you say you support her rights as a person if you won't even stick your dick into her?"
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Is there any widely accepted etiquette as a transgender telling a guy you are hitting it off with that you were born a man?

Personally, I would not date a transgendered person, but I respect them.
 

Tesseract

Banned
This is some straight-up bigotry.

As a hetero cisgendered male I've always found it odd and slightly disconcerting how most people treat it as a given that people like me would avoid dating a MTF. It's never come up, but I don't see why I shouldn't be open to the idea of falling in love with someone just because they're transgender.

I think of that episode of the IT Crowd. If you've seen the show, you know the one. Dude basically meets his perfect match, they're amazing together romantically, sexually and otherwise, but the moment he finds out she's MTF transgender, he freaks out and wants nothing to do with her. The show doesn't treat the joke ad "wow, look at this jerk and his prejudices" either. It's more "wow what a hilariously unfortunate situation for the guy!" As if it's a given that any hetero male would react the way he did. I love the show in general, but that kind of disgusted me.

and yours isn't bigotry, that's a strange rationalization
 

lifa-cobex

Member
Very obviously some people do though. I don't really know what can be done about it. Someone will be uncomfortable.

If someone is uncomfortable with it, Let them be uncomfortable.
There is no happy medium with every single person on the planet.

The earth will keep spinning.
 

Someglan

Banned
where's the contradiction?, some peope like dicks and some pussy, respecting someone does not change that.

that is like saying where's someone is racist for prefering white girls over black girls

I feel like I understand where you're coming from, but this post is very problematic. You're basically equating gender and transgender identity to genitalia.

Also, while I don't want to say you're racist, the action of preferring white girls over black girls is problematic as well.
 
Rather than quote mine people.

Can I just say allies and folks who aren't trying to be assholes, please when you're clearly talking about a trans woman call her that, a trans woman. Don't say a transgender, say trans woman, and when you're talking about a hypothetical trans woman don't go out of your way to avoid female pronouns it's just weird. She's a woman not just a person and it's she not they (unless we are talking about gender queer folk who have expressed a preference for gender neutral language but in this case we aren't even talking about an actual person just a theoretical trans woman so female pronouns are the standard)
 
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