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[Commanche Raisin Toast]

50 people laid off.

GTA blows up sales records... this industry is doing so bad!

EDIT: to contribute more than just a joke, layoffs and hiring sprees are just part of the way the industry works. tying any single event like this to the entire health of the industry is piss-pants laughable. i have a friend who's worked at 3 or 4 game dev studios now, and says that all companies go through this cycle of hiring lots for a project coming up, and then once it's ships they let a bunch of people go. it's like a tide, and no company is safe from it regardless of how well they're doing. you trim the fat when you don't have any use for it. (when projects are just getting started and aren't in full-blown production)

if we were alerted to every single hiring spree and layoff that occurred in the industry this kind of thing wouldn't be so shocking to anyone. but because stuff like this is 'leaked' or isn't publicly announced it comes off as being shady and a rarity.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Sony, like Microsoft, are not in business to benefit you, the consumer. They're in it to make money. These first party studios are criminally expensive to run, and not always going to generate home runs. It's negligent to keep some of these studios going that aren't making money for the owner.

As a consumer, I dictate what direction they should take based on my purchase habits. If Sony aren't going to let their first parties make games, then what is the point of Sony existing as a platform holder?

 

[Pound_lb003]

I love games, but the fact is, if you're trying to sell console hardware, you don't want exclusive duds dragging your brand down.

I am sitting here plowing through the new Thief on PC, instead of on my shiny new PS4, because Ubisoft knew it was a dud, and the true value of this piece of shit isn't anywhere near $59.99. I got it for nearly half that price.

But if you work with Sony and MS, that's the price they have to sell it at out of the gate. Sony is clearly catching on that putting all their eggs in first party studios might not necessarily be the way to go, and I look forward to the 59.99 model going away as well.

Thief really sucks, BTW. It's not even worth the $33 I paid for it. Derrick was right.

So you're trying to justify WHY Sony is laying these guys off?

I see.

Well, no one here will share the actual reason, so it's all speculative. Their commitment might have stayed the same to new IP, it's just the team working on pre-production of this title weren't getting anywhere, while a team over at [insert other internal or external developer] were getting somewhere and it's time to fund production. Yoshida will have made a call.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I wasn't following God of War 3 much at the time but didn't it have some issues before release? I think there was a platform switch in mid development.

 

[benny_a]

Not really a good example since Gran Turismo has been getting worse since Yoshida became president of WWS.

I hated his work on the menu in GT5 and Yoshida fucked up the online again.

Why did he not rebase the online code from GT5 into GT6? Amateur.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Not really a good example since Gran Turismo has been getting worse since Yoshida became president of WWS.

I think Gran Turismo was a victim of PD being absolutely caugh with their pants down unable to code for the PS3 and taking a ridiculous amount of time to model cars that, are a fantastic platform going forward, but would never, ever work on the PS3 due to the hardware.

I think GT6 definitely fixed a lot of problems, but I think the easier PS4 development will allow PD to shine once more, especially since their models will carry over without additional work. I expect great things from GT7.

 

[Guymelef]

Pretty sure the only place we will see Santa Monica logo next E3 is in The Order trailer.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

GTA blows up sales records... this industry is doing so bad!

GTA is an exception not the rule. Not to mention the company that owns the IP closed a studio just this month. Totally doing well.

 

[Nightengale]

I wasn't following God of War 3 much at the time but didn't it have some issues before release? I think there was a platform switch in mid development.

God of War 2.

 

[t0rment]

wtf is yosp doing? the only ''good'' thing that came out in recent times was TLOU, there are so many dumb mistakes on the ps platforms that i'm baffled no one is getting fired, instead of devs for some change, over some of this shit.

 

[The Boat]

Sad to hear this, lots of people losing their jobs lately, hopefully they can land on their feet.

 

[Caronte]

Sony, like Microsoft, are not in business to benefit you, the consumer. They're in it to make money. These first party studios are criminally expensive to run, and not always going to generate home runs. It's negligent to keep some of these studios going that aren't making money for the owner.

I thought they were cheap when compared to third-party studios?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

What do you think would be more helpful in pushing PS4s? Titanfall or Killzone?

Sony's studios are simply not reliable enough to pump out big league system sellers. They hit on one occasionally, usually thanks to Naughty Dog, but cherry picking the third party system sellers is clearly a more reliable way to push systems.

That said, using Titanfall is not a great premise because the Xbox One has other issues to deal with, but Gears of War is a much better example. That series pushed many, many Xboxes, and started life just as Titanfall did.



Sony, like Microsoft, are not in business to benefit you, the consumer. They're in it to make money. These first party studios are criminally expensive to run, and not always going to generate home runs. It's negligent to keep some of these studios going that aren't making money for the owner.

Truth is Sony seem to be looking for smaller studios or you have to be efficient .
Which is just like everyone else to tell the truth .

 

[benny_a]

I thought they were cheap when compared to third-party studios?

They are.

 

[double jump]

Looks like Adam Puhl (lead combat designer on GoW I, II & III) is part of the layoffs. Edited his bio. Was involved with Stig's project.

welp damn . this is sad.

 

[BloodMoney]

Thief really sucks, BTW. It's not even worth the $33 I paid for it. Derrick was right.

you actually purchased Thief?

 

[Caronte]

I hated his work on the menu in GT5 and Yoshida fucked up the online again.

Why did he not rebase the online code from GT5 into GT6? Amateur.

As head of WWS he is responsible too.

 

[kpaadet]

I hated his work on the menu in GT5 and Yoshida fucked up the online again.

Why did he not rebase the online code from GT5 into GT6? Amateur.

I heard Yoshida demanded his favorite elevator music to be featured in GT5 otherwise he wouldn't greenlight it.

 

[EmptySpace]

I wasn't following God of War 3 much at the time but didn't it have some issues before release? I think there was a platform switch in mid development.

nah. gow3 was always a ps3 game. some people worked on the gow3 engine after gow1 launched, and most went to work at gow2.

cory the game director left midway but the project was already well into production so the hard part of figuring out the basics was already done. they just had to stick to their vision and make the necessary changes. cory wouldn't have left if the project still had no direction.

 

[Biker19]

Sorry for bringing this up, but some folks from GameFAQ's are talking shit about you guys on this subject here (Probably got to have a GameFAQ's account to view them):

CloudStrife630.
BambooPandamo.
Muflaggin.
Super_Chelsea.

 

[Nightengale]

I thought they were cheap when compared to third-party studios?

Major cost of all studios are their talents. A 200 person 3rd-party studio isn't really that much more expensive than a 200 person first-party, assuming the same country /state/calibre.

The difference is the semantics. ND is cheaper than Irrational because they release 3 games in the same time Irrational takes for one.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

GTA is an exception not the rule. Not to mention the company that owns the IP closed a studio just this month. Totally doing well.

you can sift through all the other times people tied singular layoff events to the health of the industry being poor and find more examples of how things aren't as black and white as everyone wants it to be.

not only that, but Irrational was voluntarily closed by Ken it seems, not putting the burlap sack over it's head waiting for it's own execution. i don't believe for a second that 2K was seriously considering closing the studio and pressured him into doing it for them.

 

[benny_a]

As head of WWS he is responsible too.

You don't have to tell me, I saw the fucking results of p4v -cmd "annotate"

I think he shouldn't have r/w access IMO.

 

[Portugeezer]

Sony: PS4 sells itself, we don't need to make more games.

 

[def sim]

Sorry for bringing this up, but some folks from GameFAQ's are talking shit about you guys on this subject here (Probably got to have a GameFAQ's account to view them):

CloudStrife630.
BambooPandamo.
Muflaggin.
Super_Chelsea.

Why are you doing this? There's no need to illicit some silly interforum squabble.

 

[jay]

As head of WWS he is responsible too.

What you're responding to is oddly reminiscent of people arguing that Iwata is not responsible for what happens at Nintendo.

 

[cuyahoga]

As much as I loathe GOW and wish SSM would pursue new stuff exclusively, if Stig's project was just not coalescing, it is not a smart decision to invest $40-60 million in its development and a further $20-30 million in marketing. Shouldn't read it as any sort of statement of Sony's commitment to original titles.

 

[Etnos]

Who knows, maybe that game they were working one was actually really bad. Either way bad news for the industry, loosing jobs its never cool.

Sony did almost everything right with the PS4, but seriously they need to work with their first party, they are relying to much on Naughty Dog and indies (Indie games I already played on steam 6 months ago... )

Last gen was kind of a disaster for their first party: they lost a bunch of heavy weights (socom, insomiac, like infamous is cool but didn't sell that much etc. etc..), wondering if they actually have resources to invest on first party or 3rd party exclusives.

 

[Loudninja]

Cyberia also posted this

Edited his bio too and worked also on the new IP. Looks like he's okay though.

We dont know which project these guys are working on

 

[GravityMan]

Sad news. This surprises me more than Irrational.

You sound very misdirected and ignorant, and you are very insulting to boot. It's one thing to plan ahead of time that you want to be a nomad, travel about and live life on your own terms without a corporate leash around your neck, but it's an entirely different thing when someone unexpectedly loses a job, especially if the life they CHOSE for themselves necessitates income. Who the fuck are you to judge those who work for a living? Some of us enjoy it.

How is your internet paid for? Someone had to work to pay for it, be it you or someone else supporting you. If you think a job is so useless, go live on the street, and fuck off.

Please don't stoop down to his level.

 

[boredandlazy]

Sorry for bringing this up, but some folks from GameFAQ's are talking shit about you guys on this subject here (Probably got to have a GameFAQ's account to view them):

CloudStrife630.
BambooPandamo.
Muflaggin.
Super_Chelsea.

It's GameFAQS, who cares?

 

[Mortemis]

Talked to someone from SSM and, despite not getting any completely straight answers, this is about what I can make of the situation. They're really bummed about some of the people that are gone but it doesn't sound like it was one of the major projects that got the axe. I wish all the people that got layed off the best. Some serious talent in that pool.

Hopefully we get to see a new ip from them this e3 like everyone was guessing. It suck if they didn't have something new coming soon.

I wish everyone that left good luck to getting a new job.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

What if they were getting rid of the Senior staff, the ones that have been here since God of War 1 and 2, people tainted with the God of War-verse.

That would fit with the recent hiring spree... (with coincide with lay-off of 50 people)

Recruiting new blood... for new projects! It was most likely Cory Barlog's project that has been hit with the layoffs for the most part, since his team must have been in pre-production which would coincide with the hiring Battlestar Galactica writer. Stig's project is too far in to cancel it, unless the gameplay was really not a seller for both the investors and the public.

Again, most likely a God of War sequel not numbered, in the same style as InFamous: Second Son. My guess would go for something God of War - The Last Spartan, (PS4 exclusive sequel), a project that could feel old and new at the same time.

Hopefully we get to see some new IPs from them this e3 like everyone was guessing. It suck if they didn't have something new coming soon.

I wish everyone that left good luck to getting a new job.

I corrected it for you.

 

[sn00zer]

Shit so was this the game that was canceled?

EDIT: LEad combat designer on GOW leaving sucks....

 

[Caronte]

What you're responding to is oddly reminiscent of people arguing that Iwata is not responsible for what happens at Nintendo.

Agreed.

You don't have to tell me, I saw the fucking results of p4v -cmd "annotate"

I think he shouldn't have r/w access IMO.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I am going to wait for more information before much of an opinion on what I think about all of this. We really have no clue what was going down in there but I am sure more will leak out eventually. I certainly am not going to post comments like my hair is on fire.

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

Face the music, we caught you being an asshole. Perhaps you've never lost a job, perhaps you've never had a job. The point is, it's not very pleasant, when there's bills to pay and you have a family to feed. If you don't think a job is a necessity, I think I'd be bored in the society you'd like.

Point is, it's cordial in the very least to wish people well.

Not feeling sorry != being arsehole (human are arseholes so this point is moot anyway). No necessity for job != nothing to do. Like I wrote, I would feel sorry (well not right now, but some other time propably) for hardships current society may put people on and their families, but never for loss of a job (in these current societies).
Never understand is propably wrong choise of words and never agree would be more fitting choise.

My ideal society would be pretty close to the one in that one zeitgeist movie.
but this is all moot and off-topic.

I wonder what games SSM are cooking.

You sound very misdirected and ignorant, and you are very insulting to boot. It's one thing to plan ahead of time that you want to be a nomad, travel about and live life on your own terms without a corporate leash around your neck, but it's an entirely different thing when someone unexpectedly loses a job, especially if the life they CHOSE for themselves necessitates income. Who the fuck are you to judge those who work for a living? Some of us enjoy it.

How is your internet paid for? Someone had to work to pay for it, be it you or someone else supporting you. If you think a job is so useless, go live on the street, and fuck off.

Lol. Where did I wrote that jobs are useless? I am not judging anybody (well arsehole part, but it is part of human charasteristic. Humans are selfish beings) People can live their lives how ever they want. I never even imply otherwise. Loss of a job just have never come to me as something to feel sorry about. And I do find it weird ( not that i do not know that western societies are very job-centric). Nothing more to it. I enjoy working too, so you clearly do not see where I am coming from.
Anyway, enough off-topic. I really should have kept these things to myself (as it really does not bring anything to discussion anyway).

 

[Drek]

I was in panic mode at first and was being unrealistic, I really doubt they would cancel the new IP everyone's been talking about, they even named dropped SSM as one of the studios that has a new IP coming up at gamescom and apparently its been in development for a long time. I doubt they would cut a big project this late into it. If a project actually got canceled, its probably something in its early stages, and Sony decided to have everyone focus on either GoW 4 or stigs game instead of having 3 games. Obviously that's just me doing guesswork..

My bet is they just cut GoW 4 to be honest. Ascension was a huge sales nosedive for how expensive those games are so the franchise is clearly worn out in the current format. They probably had a cookie cutter GoW 4 from the exact same template as 1-3+Ascension in early planning and realized that it simply wasn't worth going back to that well and betting NEXT GEN GRAPHICS! as the soul selling point.

Especially not when they brought in Barlog and he was supposed to be hiring in for his new team, but that's too early to just transition 50+ people onto it and carry their salaries until it gets through pre-pro. So cutting staff and scaling back up when needed is the smart business move.

 

[spwolf]

GTA is an exception not the rule. Not to mention the company that owns the IP closed a studio just this month. Totally doing well.

games are like movies, some of them do great, some of them go bust... just because they made money on GTA does not mean they should lose money on everything else.

if new game doesnt make the cut, there is nothing else to do but let the people go... they usually get some severance package and help with employment within other parts of the company as well as outside.

 

[mreddie]

Maybe they didn't know about the layoffs when they were hiring folks from Irrational?

Still, I know these days it's common for people to leave but after some studios closing recently and Irrational, shit like this gets us paranoid that OHNOESGAMEINDUSTRYISDOOMED!

But their new IP getting the ax has me concerned since I heard about Guerilla's new IP earlier today.

 

[-Winnie-]

Shit so was this the game that was canceled?

EDIT: LEad combat designer on GOW leaving sucks....

Shieeet, I wonder whether this would've been like the book Hothouse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hothouse_(novel)

Set in a far future, the earth has locked rotation with the Sun, and is attached to the now-more-distant Moon, which resides at a Trojan point, with cobwebs spun by enormous spider-like plants. The Sun has swollen to fill half the sky and, with the increased light and heat, the plants are engaged in a constant frenzy of growth and decay, like a tropical forest enhanced a thousandfold. The plants – many now omnivores – have filled all the ecological niches on the land and in the air, many evolving primitive nervous systems and, in some cases, eyes; of the animals in the forest only the descendants of four species of social insects remain (tigerflies (evolved from wasps), tree-bees, plant-ants and termights (from termites)), along with small groups of humans (a fifth of the size they are now); all other land and air animals have been driven to extinction by the vegetable kingdom, apart from a few shore dwellers. The humans live on the edge of extinction, within the canopy layer of a giant banyan tree that covers the continent on the day side of the earth.

 

[EmptySpace]

What you're responding to is oddly reminiscent of people arguing that Iwata is not responsible for what happens at Nintendo.

they're not even the same thing. yosp passed on one game that turned out to be great and we have people here for who-knows-what getting butthurt over it as if it didn't come to playstation. and somehow, they bring that into this topic to either put the blame on a single person for the layoffs or whatever nonsense theory they want to spread.

 

[Patryn]

GTA blows up sales records... this industry is doing so bad!

EDIT: to contribute more than just a joke, layoffs and hiring sprees are just part of the way the industry works. tying any single event like this to the entire health of the industry is piss-pants laughable. i have a friend who's worked at 3 or 4 game dev studios now, and says that all companies go through this cycle of hiring lots for a project coming up, and then once it's ships they let a bunch of people go. it's like a tide, and no company is safe from it regardless of how well they're doing. you trim the fat when you don't have any use for it. (when projects are just getting started and aren't in full-blown production)

if we were alerted to every single hiring spree and layoff that occurred in the industry this kind of thing wouldn't be so shocking to anyone. but because stuff like this is 'leaked' or isn't publicly announced it comes off as being shady and a rarity.

If you'd actually have been paying attention, you'd be noticing that there are far more closings and layoffs now than before. It's deniable that the industry is in a slump, GTAV sales be damned.

Ask yourself this: Where are the mid-tier publishers?

For that matter, where are the PS4 and XB1 games? In another thread Nirolak pointed out that we are way behind on the normal amount of games announced in a year.

 

[Omotesando]

SSM have basically made one game in a long long generation. That is the reality of things. Ascension was decent but not up to par, both in critical succes and in sales. They have become something like Polyphony, but without the 10+ million sales.

News about their next project has been nihil, I am not surprised by this news. I am curious to hear what they have been up to. I am sure they're still alive and kicking. But please get it together.

 

[Stark]

Talked to someone from SSM and, despite not getting any completely straight answers, this is about what I can make of the situation. They're really bummed about some of the people that are gone but it doesn't sound like it was one of the major projects that got the axe. I wish all the people that got layed off the best. Some serious talent in that pool.

Probably needs a quote.

 

[Cheech]

Well, no one here will share the actual reason, so it's all speculative.

Well, it's all we got. Would be a pretty short thread otherwise!

you actually purchased Thief?

Listen Taffer, the first two Thief games are some of the finest games in history. They're my personal favorites. The third game also had some very, very good parts to it.

This new Thief game had to have been designed by people who have never played a Thief game before, nor do they have any idea how to make a good game period. It's just bad.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

For a company the size of Sony it is, or at least it should be. A cancelled project shouldn't have to mean massive layoffs for a big publisher with several AA games in development, unless it's a cost cutting decision from the start.

For a company the size of Sony 50 people is not massive even if we just count SCE WWS .
I see people saying they could have move them to other projects but it does not work that way .
Other studios already have the people in place for certain jobs and if project already gone a certain way they would be no use to them not to mention they are not going send them overseas where other studios are .
They other factors in play of course but SSM seem to grow to big for the output and the cancel project mean cut downs .

EDIT also people there is no Team ICO there Japanese side moves from project to project .

 

[cebri.one]

These guys took eons to make GT5, and didn't GT6 basically bomb? I would venture a guess that having that on the PS4 would have made a much bigger impact than Driveclub, which.. Probably is not great. I wish that studio would have just done another Motorstorm (speaking as a gamer - as a businessman, I would have shredded that studio after the last Motorstorm game bombed).

You said that sony can't make system sellers, the GT franchise is system seller, and a big one, much bigger than titanfall will ever be. The fact that GT6 has bombed in sales (which given enough time will probably sell more than 90% of the games made this generation) doesn't change the fact that your statement is wrong.

Not really a good example since Gran Turismo has been getting worse since Yoshida became president of WWS.

LOL

 

[beril]

they're not even the same thing. yosp passed on one game that turned out to be great and we have people here for who-knows-what getting butthurt over it as if it didn't come to playstation. and somehow, they bring that into this topic to either put the blame on a single person for the layoffs or whatever nonsense theory they want to spread.

That Demon Souls talk is stupid and completely irrelevant. But as president of worldwide studios, he is certainly responsible in this case, whether it's directly or indirectly.

 

[coolasj19]

Sony doom threads are the worst. Because they are always based on nothing but conjecture ("The game I knew nothing about was awesome") and then we get people say the opposite of things that are true ("Sony doesn't care about new IP") and then the lynch mob comes out ("Yoshida sucks at his job") and after, people start making wild suggestions ("They should shut everyone down while their at it" and even more inane drivel).

Here's what happened. A game got cancelled. Probably because it wasn't coming together. The now redundant staff had nothing to work on and was then let go.