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[vocab]

I cant believe you completely disregarded one of the elements that greatly change how level design and gameplay mechanics work; the power-ups, and justified your argument with cosmetic elements like the end reward and boss character being the same across main titles.

I'm baffled

Oh man gravity is sure new, and completely innovating. Oh man, those power ups redefined the whole genre! None of that stuff matters in evolving 3D mario. The gameplay is the same.

 

[nincompoop]

The only difference is galaxy is less linear, and gravity (which isn't new to the genre). You still collect stars, there's still a hub world, and you still fight Bowser. Big deal if there's new hat powers.

There's no difference between Killzone 3 and Wolfenstein 3D. You still shoot bad guys, pick up weapons, and try not to run out of health. Amidoinitrite?

 

[kingslunk]

By your argument methodology - using first person shooters as the metric instead of Mario titles, they've been the same since their inception.

I disagree. For example: Quake and Counter-Strike's game play elements are so different it's not even funny. Sure they use the same mechanics of point and shoot bullets but the actual game play is significantly different.

 

[walking fiend]

Oh man gravity is sure new, and completely innovating. Oh man, those power ups redefined the whole genre!

have you really played SMG?

I disagree. For example: Quake and Counter-Strike's game play elements are so different it's not even funny. Sure they use the same mechanics of point and shoot bullets but the actual game play is significantly different.

you still shoot people... as you still jump in mario... and the people still use guns to shoot... as mario still beats browser...

 

[Boombloxer]

RDR will age like shit. Come back in 10 years when it is absolutely blown away by newer games in its genre. This is bound to happen because of the actual strengths of the type of game it is--open world games thrive on scope, visuals, production quality etc. which will only improve over time with better technology and more powerful hardware. Controls are usually passable but nothing special. Mario platformers strive on tight controls and creative level design. SMB3, for example, still plays very well and is still a great game. GTA3, however? I don't think it's aged quite as well.

Also, I'm quite confused--Nintendo's titles generally sell well, then sell well. Both companies' big hitters sell millions.

I'm not even sure what I'm arguing about anymore.

I didn't say GTA3. I said San Andreas, which renders pretty much all of your points moot.

Open world games thrive on gameplay, exploration and freedom. The graphics/production values don't have to be top-of-line. Infamous, Prototype, Just Cause all sold over a million and they didn't blow the roof off in any area save gameplay. You're wrong, RDR will age fine.

I don't what you're arguing either except your personal preference and opinion that Mario Galaxy will age better than RDR. I disagree.

Just like I disagree with the premise of the IGN article, it's not really the right thing to criticize.

 

[StevieP]

Oh man gravity is sure new, and completely innovating. Oh man, those power ups redefined the whole genre!

Spoken like someone who's played neither title to any length.

I disagree. For example: Quake and Counter-Strike's game play elements are so different it's not even funny. Sure they use the same mechanics of point and shoot bullets but the actual game play is significantly different.

Do you not realize your own irony? I'm asking seriously, as a human - do you not realize the irony of this exact statement?

 

[Goldmund]

I disagree. For example: Quake and Counter-Strike's game play elements are so different it's not even funny. Sure they use the same mechanics of point and shoot bullets but the actual game play is significantly different.

Is this a template where we can exchange »point and shoot bullets« with »jump« and »Quake and Counter-Strike« with »Super Mario World and Super Mario Galaxy«?

 

[Orayn]

I disagree. For example: Quake and Counter-Strike's game play elements are so different it's not even funny. Sure they use the same mechanics of point and shoot bullets but the actual game play is significantly different.

How, though? Different levels? Buying guns instead of picking them up? Games played in rounds instead of continuously respawning? You move/jump a little differently?
Sounds like a bunch of insignificant gimmicks and minor changes to me. Hell, they're technically running on the same game engine.

 

[theBishop]

There's no difference between Killzone 3 and Wolfenstein 3D. You still shoot bad guys, pick up weapons, and try not to run out of health. Amidoinitrite?

Would you think it odd if Wolfenstein3D and Killzone3 both cost $60 today

 

[kingslunk]

There's no difference between Killzone 3 and Wolfenstein 3D. You still shoot bad guys, pick up weapons, and try not to run out of health. Amidoinitrite?

Collecting stars, having a hub world, and fighting Bowser are not core elements of the genre. You just argued core elements to a first person shooter genre, health, weapons, bad guys. If he was arguing the genre's elements you would have been right but he's not.

 

[vocab]

have you really played SMG?


you still shoot people... as you still jump in mario... and the people still use guns to shoot... as mario still beats browser...

Have you played SMG? Has anyone played SMG2? Am I playing the same game? SMG2 is the most laziest Nintendo effort I have ever seen.

 

[kingslunk]

How, though? Different levels? Buying guns instead of picking them up? Games played in rounds instead of continuously respawning? You move/jump a little differently?
Sounds like a bunch of insignificant gimmicks and minor changes to me. Hell, they're technically running on the same game engine.

Bomb planting and/or Hostage rescue over Death Match?

You are mistaking mechanics over game play.

 

[Riposte]

To get back to kingslunk's complete nonsense, since vocab is posting really slowly:

How you grab mushroom and hit blocks in SMB and SMG are completely different. Just imagine these activities in your head(well I know you only played SMG for an hour). Think of how you manipulate the controls, how Mario moves, and how you react to things on the screen. Throw in that "gravity" round-planet movement compared to flat two way movement... The "gameplay" is different because the mechanics are different. (Gameplay and mechanics are THE SAME THING.)

 

[MYE]

Oh man gravity is sure new, and completely innovating. Oh man, those power ups redefined the whole genre!

I am clearly wasting my time with you
Have a nice day

 

[Orayn]

Collecting stars, having a hub world, and fighting Bowser are not core elements of the genre. You just argued core elements to a first person shooter genre, health, weapons, bad guys. If he was arguing the genre's elements you would have been right but he's not.

You're right. They're both platformers, which involve walking/running, jumping, precision control of the character's movement, collecting pick-ups, and avoiding enemies. Where does your argument come in again?

Bomb planting and/or Hostage rescue over Death Match?

You are mistaking mechanics over game play.

"Gameplay" is just a convenient name for a collection of mechanics that are used together.

 

[vocab]

I am clearly wasting my time with you
Have a nice day

Awww Nintendo fan being mad. Quite a sight.

 

[M3d10n]

I disagree. For example: Quake and Counter-Strike's game play elements are so different it's not even funny. Sure they use the same mechanics of point and shoot bullets but the actual game play is significantly different.

Alright, by your new metric, COD: MW is identical to Goldeneye 64.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Is it even possible to deny that SMB has simplistic gameplay? I don't mean that as a critisism, it's just a fact. You have a limited moveset and you avoid stuff. It's still a great game. In contrast Mario kills enemies, collects powerups, punches blocks and rides dinosours, it's not the most compex game either but there is just a lot more stuff and more ways to interact with them. That doesn't in itself mean that it's better, but it certainly increases the amount of man hours needed to make it.

As for the artstyle, I personally hate the semi-retro look and just find it cheap, and it's also very quick to produce.

To me it just seems like an oversimplification that doesn't do the game justice. The beauty of the gameplay is in the level design and the nuances of the controls. When you spend a lot of time with the game and really learn to understand each level it helps reveal the extra layers of complexity that aren't readily apparent. I can agree that the game has a simple premise and isn't very complex when boiled down to the absolute basics but the same could be said for a Street Fighter game. I'll admit that I didn't form this opinion until I played the game for at least 15 hours or so, likely more.

I understand what you're saying about the artstyle, and I suppose that's a matter of personal opinion. I found the visuals to be quite enjoyable, myself.

 

[brochiller]

So next gen, when they are in HD and in surround sound, they will have evolved, right?

 

[Riposte]

So one idea gives Nintendo an A for effort? Is this why people like Twilight princess?

Okay...

So all the levels are the same? You fight Bowser the same way? The hub world is/works the same? (And the "gravity" is the same to previous games? Since you seem key on bringing up that it has been done before, like it actually matters.)

Each level is made of new ideas, new boss fights are new ideas, etc. Gravity itself is a new idea for the series and just because something LIKE it has been done doesn't mean it and what it does for the game(s) is a "rehash".

 

[vocab]

"rehash".

Then what does SMG2 qualify as?

 

[Goldmund]

Awww Nintendo fan being mad. Quite a sight.

Being patronizing is what secures you and your argument our utmost respect.

 

[Riposte]

Then what does SMG2 qualify as?

SMG2 has new levels, new bosses, etc etc. Obviously less of a leap between Sunshine and Galaxy 1 though.

 

[nincompoop]

So next gen, when they are in HD and in surround sound, they will have evolved, right?

Only if they have achievements, the TRUE pinnacle of gaming evolution.

 

[Orayn]

So next gen, when they are in HD and in surround sound, they will have evolved, right?

Not unless there are killstreaks, unlockable weapons, and BLOODY SCREEN SO REAL as well.

 

[vocab]

SMG2 has new levels, new bosses, etc etc. Obviously less of a leap between Sunshine and Galaxy 1 though.

But isn't that what a rehash is?

 

[Alrus]

Man this is thread is pure gold. Nintendo threads always bring out the crazies.

Also some people in this thread seem to think designing an enjoyable platformer is dumb easy and doesn't require any thought. It's pretty sad :/

 

[Riposte]

But isn't that what a rehash is?

No, of course not.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

You are mistaking mechanics over game play.

Gameplay is made up of mechanics. That's why then full term is gameplay mechanics.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

So next gen, when they are in HD and in surround sound, they will have evolved, right?

Probably not because by then the next evolutionary jump will have occurred --- constant connection and integration with social networks. Oh boy!

 

[StevieP]

Have you played SMG? Has anyone played SMG2? Am I playing the same game? SMG2 is the most laziest Nintendo effort I have ever seen.

You know, there are a lot of titles you can more legitimately claim Nintendo being lazy with. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is not one of them.

Awww Nintendo fan being mad. Quite a sight.

My primary gaming platform of choice is PC. And I still say you're not backing up your arguments with fact. Rather, using inflammatory statements based on inaccuracies, such as "the gameplay is the same" (when, in fact, Super Mario 64 plays FAR different than Galaxy).

Would you think it odd if Wolfenstein3D and Killzone3 both cost $60 today

No, because the Wolfenstein 3D of today wouldn't be the sprite-based introduction to an entire genre.

Also some people in this thread seem to think designing an enjoyable platformer is dumb easy and doesn't require any thought. It's pretty sad :/

These are the same people that think C and D-teams can pull off successful minigame compilations.

 

[Goldmund]

Okay guys, there's no need to validate these trolls by being dismissive of other genres and their evolution.

 

[walking fiend]

Bomb planting and/or Hostage rescue over Death Match?

You are mistaking mechanics over game play.

you have point, that is exactly why jumping around in SMG platforms to corner and catch a rabbit is not the same as jumping around SMB on top of muchrooms to get rid of it.

 

[MYE]

Awww Nintendo fan being mad. Quite a sight.

Classy behavior. Will take you far in life for sure

 

[vocab]

You know, there are a lot of titles you can more legitimately claim Nintendo being lazy with. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is not one of them.



.

Metacritic means nothing. Just lets me know where the sheep mindset is.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

I agree with IGN on this. Mario Galaxy and new super mario bros are the most overrated, over appreciated games this generation, how nintendo has gotten away with selling snake oil is beyond me. What's even more shocking is people calling games like halo CEA over priced because it's a remake when these games havn't changed since mario 64 and super mario bros.

At least other companies have the balls to call their remakes what they are.

 

[StevieP]

Metacritic means nothing. Just lets me know where the sheep mindset is.

They're playing yearly installments of Call of Duty and Madden. You know, the games you *could* legitimately call a rehash if you wanted to use that term. Way to respond to the rest of my points, however. Edit: nevermind, you can't respond to the rest of my posts.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

I agree with IGN on this. Mario Galaxy and new super mario bros are the most overrated, over appreciated games this generation, how nintendo has gotten away with selling snake oil is beyond me. What's even more shocking is people calling games like halo CEA over priced because it's a remake when these games havn't changed since mario 64 and super mario bros.

At least other companies have the balls to call their games what they are.

This thread just keeps getting better. A lot of people think Mario games, including the new ones, are fun. It's that simple.

 

[MYE]

Oh this thread is gold

 

[Shiggy]

But isn't that what a rehash is?

Just as much as the Uncharted and Halo games are rehashes.

 

[Keyouta]

If anything, the games didn't "evolve" until the N64, with both series' leaping into 3D.

Oh, IGN. Hah.

 

[Riposte]

They're playing yearly installments of Call of Duty and Madden. You know, the games you *could* legitimately call a rehash if you wanted to use that term.

No, not really. The term rehash only exists for remakes and ports(including slightly enhanced ports).

EDIT: Oh vocab is gone... damn.

 

[miksar]

So next gen, when they are in HD and in surround sound, they will have evolved, right?

Don't forget about DLC. $60 for 3/4 of the game + several $5 DLC packs is true value, not some SNES-era $50 game.

 

[walking fiend]

But isn't that what a rehash is?

1. assets are not the same.
2. every chess game is a rehash, but it doesn't take away from the value of each game or chess.

when the gameplay mechanism and ideas are superb, so why not more levels? That is the reason SMB is so popular.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

 

[StevieP]

No, not really. The term rehash only exists for remakes and ports(including slightly enhanced ports).

EDIT: Oh vocab is gone... damn.

As an owner of all of the Call of Duty games (and in some cases, 2 copies of the same game on Wii and PC) they share far more in common than, say, SMG and SMG2. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, as I obviously find entertainment in the multiplayer portion of the games.

But most people on these boards, I find, use the term "rehash" to describe stuff such as Mario. Whereas I find the term would better describe yearly franchise installments.

Edit: am I seeing things or was kingslunk just banned and then unbanned?

 

[Nix]

IGN is just trying to get more hits. No one can play those games, and say that shit with a straight face. I mean, maybe DK, but Mario? Get outta here.

Have you seen Galaxy?

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

IGN is just trying to get more hits. No one can play those games, and say that shit with a straight face. I mean, maybe DK, but Mario? Get outta here.

Have you seen Galaxy?

Have you seen the posts on this page?

 

[Aaron Strife]

"guys i played 5 minutes of mario galaxy at a best buy kiosk it's clearly the same thing as mario 64 which i played 5 minutes of at a friend's house once ten years ago."

this thread is making me dumber

 

[Riposte]

As an owner of all of the Call of Duty games (and in some cases, 2 copies of the same game on Wii and PC) they share far more in common than, say, SMG and SMG2. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, as I obviously find entertainment in the multiplayer portion of the games.

But most people on these boards, I find, use the term "rehash" to describe stuff Mario. Whereas I find the term would better describe yearly franchise installments.

On a spectrum of things Call of Duty is more of a rehash, because the way its sequels function. However, it is all hyperbole, all of it, which message boards love. There are significant changes being made to all of these games.