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[kinggroin]

To be fair, if you asked God for a sign and he gave it to you, then there would be no need to have the sort of faith prescribed by most major world religions. You would simply know.

Depending on your own interpretations, receiving evidence of God's existence (outside of an "end times" scenario) would immediately disprove most religions. They say you need to have faith that God is there and taking care of you and hearing your prayers - now you no longer need to have faith, so whichever sort of God was revealed to you, it's not the one from the bible.

What does the bible have to do with believing in God though?

I think that book is where most people who don't believe have this grudging hangup.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Honestly, OP, I don't think Atheism is where your problem lies, Atheism doesn't cause pessimism, sounds to me like you're projecting whatever circumstances in your life are making you miserable onto your lack of belief in a higher power.

I'd suggest that instead of focussing on Atheism or religion, you focus on whatever it is in your life that is making you unhappy and find a way to course correct that.

Pretty much this. My life is a fucking dumpster fire right now but I know it's not for lack of religion.

I was expecting the OP to go into how people don't like atheists and feeling kind of looked down upon by society etc.

 

[John Dunbar]

if you think something has to be permanent and eternal to have meaning, then you are absolutely correct, our existence is entirely devoid of meaning. how someone deals with this reality of course varies. but i certainly don't think that any idea of a god solves this, as i don't think that being some cosmic monstrosity's eternal lapdog would be very meaningful.

 

[capitalCORN]

I'm sure it's been mentioned already but this post basically proves that old saying "If God didn't exist it would be necessary to invent him". It was supposed to be Voltaire I think, but probably Philosoraptor.

Maybe Hume?

 

[ExVicis]

I'd rather know I'm the cause of my own problems or that the universe and it's randomness is than god hates me or is testing me by throwing really dumb bad things my way. It's more comforting to know that I think rather than something bad happening being a concentrated effort to make me do something.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

OP, there are more options than being an Athiest and being religious. Just sayin.

 

[Monocle]

if you think something has to be permanent and eternal to have meaning, then you are absolutely correct, our existence is entirely devoid of meaning. how someone deals with this reality of course varies. but i certainly don't think that any idea of a god solves this, as i don't think that being some cosmic monstrosity's eternal lapdog would be very meaningful.

On the other hand, ice cream tastes good, and the ultimate meaningfulness or meaninglessness of the universe doesn't affect that one bit.

Don't freak out, guys. Live life.

 

[capitalCORN]

On the other hand, ice cream tastes good, and the ultimate meaningfulness or meaninglessness of the universe doesn't affect that one bit.

Don't freak out, guys. Live life.

I've posted to this effect before, but humans have too much fucking time on their hands.

 

[Octavianus]

I honestly don't understand how some people don't believe in God. I will never get it. I don't think a day passes where I don't admire this world and even the little things that sometimes I take for granted. Just think about how even the tiniest organisms have their own physiology. Even taking a biology class should leave no doubt that this universe was created.

I mean other than there being no evidence that there's a god... sure.

 

[Icanplaythat]

I was the same way.

I've been doing a ton of psychedelics and marijuana lately and have changed my mind.

I'm getting answers to questions that I've struggled with my entire life. I can't really decide if these answers are coming from the temporary chemical alteration of my brain/central nervous system, which is resulting in my mind being in a better state to sort through this shit; but I also feel like I might be communing with some ethereal source that I haven't reached before because of my personality, beliefs, or fucked neurochemistry.

I'd say I'm agnostic now, definitely still have no interest in organized religion.

I hate saying I'm agnostic, I hate fence-sitters, but it's the way I feel right now.

I found that separating the belief of the possibility of a higher power from organized religion is imperative. The stench and rot of organized religion can cloud your judgement on the subject of the existence of a greater being.

I don't see or hear a god.

I feel a goddess.

 

[Future]

Just like some people grasp onto religion to give them purpose and something to reach for, some people grasp athiesm because they are pessimistic depressed individuals. Your issues have nothing to do with athiesm, the problems run deeper

 

[capitalCORN]

I was the same way.

I've been doing a ton of psychedelics and marijuana lately and have changed my mind.

I'm getting answers to questions that I've struggled with my entire life. I can't really decide if these answers are coming from the temporary chemical alteration of my brain/central nervous system, which is resulting in my mind being in a better state to sort through this shit; but I also feel like I might be communing with some ethereal source that I haven't reached before because of my personality, beliefs, or fucked neurochemistry.

I'd say I'm agnostic now, definitely still have no interest in organized religion.

I hate saying I'm agnostic, I hate fence-sitters, but it's the way I feel right now.

I found that separating the belief of the possibility of a higher power from organized religion is imperative. The stench and rot of organized religion can cloud your judgement on the subject of the existence of a greater being.

I don't see or hear a god.

I feel a goddess.

Eris is Goddess?

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I was the same way.

I've been doing a ton of psychedelics and marijuana lately and have changed my mind.

I'm getting answers to questions that I've struggled with my entire life. I can't really decide if these answers are coming from the temporary chemical alteration of my brain/central nervous system, which is resulting in my mind being in a better state to sort through this shit; but I also feel like I might be communing with some ethereal source that I haven't reached before because of my personality, beliefs, or fucked neurochemistry.

I'd say I'm agnostic now, definitely still have no interest in organized religion.

I hate saying I'm agnostic, I hate fence-sitters, but it's the way I feel right now.

I found that separating the belief of the possibility of a higher power from organized religion is imperative. The stench and rot of organized religion can cloud your judgement on the subject of the existence of a greater being.

I don't see or hear a god.

I feel a goddess.

You probably need to stop doing drugs.

 

[PadWarrior]

Ever since i remember, i never really believed in god. I always thought it was an absurd idea. I also thought that i'm among the "smart" ones or at least the lucky ones who are able to see through the bullshit.

But as i grow older i realize that i'm the unlucky one instead. Because i denied myself from a wonderful bed time story where god and his angels will always watch over everyone or something and that there is a deeper meaning to everything and that no matter how cruel something looks, it's always according to god's good plan and that i will live forever in some form so i won't miss anything, etc.

Instead i am now the most pessimistic person, i think there is no reason for anything to exist, yet i don't like the idea of not existing either because nothingness seems even more meaningless if that makes any sense. It doesn't help that my life has been miserable the last 6-7 years or so. So the whole "live your life to the fullest" atheist motto doesn't really work on me.

Sure, religious people have hell to worry about but that's just something to keep things interesting. That's the whole point of religion. It's interesting. It has a meaning. Nothingness has no meaning. I hate the idea of death because of it. And i actually feel very jealous of people who really believe in god without knowingly kidding themselves. I wish i could do too. But my sense and logic always tell me that existence is a stupid mystery that nobody will ever solve and at some point nobody sentient will exist to know about it.

I wonder if others have similar thoughts?

Hi there. If you are interested here's a site that is backed by Bible scriptures that can help in any questions you have. http://www.gotquestions.org/

 

[KingK]

I can definitely relate OP. I was raised Catholic but never actually believed. By the time I was 8 or 9 and learned that atheists were a thing, I realized I must be atheist.

My dad died when I was 17 and that was one of the first times I really wondered if things could be easier/happier if I believed. I've also been miserable for the last 7 or 8 years.

It was at its worst point a couple years ago, when I nearly fucked up my entire college degree by spending a semester and a half skipping class and drinking/smoking weed by myself everyday until I passed out. I managed to work myself out of that cycle and get back on track, so I'm graduating this December, but I'm still fucking miserable and worried that I could fall into that cycle again next time I live alone. I still smoke way too much, but I cut back the drinking significantly so I can at least function and go to class.

I'm not sure I would be any less miserable if I believed in God though. I've thought that it might help with the soul crushing loneliness and feelings of being unwanted if I believed in a loving God who's always there for me, but I've also known religious people with severe depression who attempted suicide, so who knows. I think what I really want is to not be so lonely and pessimistic, but my constant failure to solve the loneliness problem, despite my best efforts, keeps fueling more pessimism. I've never actually considered suicide, and I don't want to die, but the concept of suicide has been popping up in my head more recently. Which kinda worries me even though I could never imagine myself doing that, but I don't have money to see a therapist.

 

[Pantaghana]

I hate saying I'm agnostic, I hate fence-sitters, but it's the way I feel right now.

Agnosticism doesn't mean "I'm not sure," it means "I don't know." There's a subtle, but important difference.

 

[Venfayth]

This is what I'm criticizing:



This is not a phenomenon unique to atheism, of course. Many religions make similar claims as to their own philosophical/rhetorical uniqueness, that there's some aspect that sets them apart from everyone else's as some sort of evidence to their veracity.

Atheism is still about what a person believes, though. Sure, there's not a central belief system prescribed by it, but believing that atheism is true still clearly has a profound impact on the way an individual leads their life, the same as any religious individual. And yes, some atheists will be nihilistic and others will espouse humanism. Some religious people are assholes and others are kind and loving, too. It's all in how you interpret the way you should behave based on your own beliefs.

I think I understand. I agree that there is a segment of atheists that are undeservedly smug and content to feel pompously superior to religious people. I stated this in another post in this thread unrelated to this argument, but there are a lot of ways to live life in good and satisfying ways. We (humans) shouldn't be so quick to mock other lifestyles.

Atheists do of course have beliefs about religion. And naturally there are varying levels of belief and disbelief. For example I strongly believe that essentially all terrestrial religions are less likely to be divine than there is any chance we have a creator to begin with. In the same way I find it less likely that MY toaster is currently orbiting the sun than there is A toaster orbiting the sun. I saw my toaster this morning, but I can't account for every toaster that has ever existed. I have a reason to believe terrestrial religion is man-made, I have no reason to believe there is no possibility of a creator or super-universal god.

 

[moggio]

The problem isn't that you're an Atheist - it's that you're depressed.

 

[NervousXtian]

Religion isn't the key to happiness as much as atheism isn't a key to unhappiness.

Know a lot of deeply religious people who suffer with depression.

Though a lot of people use religion to give them hope and something to live for, if that's what you need, then go for it.

As a non-believer myself, I don't begrudge those who use it as a crutch to finding meaning in all this.

Your problem isn't due to religion, it's not having finding something meaningful with your life, we find that with other people, find a community or group you can join and be a part of.

 

[Joyful]

nothingness is a bitter pill to swallow yes
why do you think religion is so popular

Spoiler

other than child indoctrination

 

[Icanplaythat]

Agnosticism doesn't mean "I'm not sure," it means "I don't know." There's a subtle, but important difference.

Yeah, I get the difference, I'm accustomed to being much more matter of fact and aggressively confident on the subject of religion and a higher power. Stepping back and being open on this subject is new to me.

 

[Kingpin Rogers]

If you don't think like that then I think you're pretty weird. To be satisfied knowing one day your life will end and that there's nothing beyond death is just bizarre. I can't say whether I truly believe in God or not, I would have to do more research but I truly hope I one day believe and that I'll join him in the afterlife.

I try not to let it get me down for the time being though so as long as I don't think about it I'm fine. Sometimes when I'm trying to sleep though the idea of my parents and family getting older and dying one day terrifies me but at least that motivates me to spend more time with them.

 

[Icanplaythat]

You probably need to stop doing drugs.

That's not going to happen. The stuff I'm using now is immeasurably more effective than all the antidepressants and antipsychotics I've ever been prescribed.

For sure though, keep telling people how to live their life, I'm sure you're a joy to be around.

 

[SturokBGD]

"The world is beautiful, and this is everything.

The great truth which it patiently teaches me is that neither the mind nor even the heart has any importance. And that the stone warmed by the sun or the cypress tree swelling against the empty sky set a boundary to the only world in which 'to be right' has any meaning: nature without men. This world reduces me to nothing. It carries me to the very end. Without anger, it denies that I exist.

And, agreeing to my defeat, I move toward a wisdom where everything has been already conquered - except that tears come into my eyes, and this great sob of poetry which swells my heart makes me forget the truth of the world." - Albert Camus

 

[Astral Dog]

There are two sides of the same coin my friend, sometimes i really wish i was not raised catholic for that comes with alot of uneccessary baggage and mental problems for me and my family, but it is what it is.

Just try to find meaning in what you are, not what you think should be

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

That's not going to happen. The stuff I'm using now is immeasurably more effective than all the antidepressants and antipsychotics I've ever been prescribed.

For sure though, keep telling people how to live their life, I'm sure you're a joy to be around.

I am. I'm studying to be doctor. Thanks for the support.

 

[red731]

No.

But I've found this funny gif -

 

[Blargonaut]

I wrote something super-insightful about the nature of reality for that 'Will religion ever become popular with young people again' thread, but I realized that what I wrote was so profound that I've chosen to withhold it from the public so I can insert it as a killer line of dialogue in the novel I'm working on

Anyway, noting what affects context is what gives meaning to something, OP. Nothing is something by the sheer virtue of calling out its nothingness. Nothingness isn't nothing because it's a word. Life is also a word. But life isn't nothing. See?

I say this as a Catholic, OP; if religion has taught me anything, it's that you should live for the sake of consequences. Something more, nothing less.

Death is death. But life isn't death. See?

 

[Adam_Vania]

if you think something has to be permanent and eternal to have meaning, then you are absolutely correct, our existence is entirely devoid of meaning.

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.”

-Carl Sagan

we are permanent, we are eternal. in a million years the atoms that make up you will still be around, in another configuration, possibly a star, possibly a mountain, possibly some animal that hasn't evolved yet.

the idea that the start and end of your life alone defines your role in the universe is a bias that is hard to get past.

 

[Grimalkin]

I know a man in his 60s who has been an atheist his whole life but still goes to church every Sunday. Why? He likes the community. He's even a deacon within the church. I have no idea if they know he's an atheist, I can't imagine they do because electing an atheist to be a deacon in your congregation is way too liberal for that small town.

My point, OP, is that it takes all kinds of people to make the world work. I agree with others that your key problem is loneliness and you need to find a community of people. Maybe not hoodwink a local church like the guy I know but find something to belong to.

 

[Kinitari]

I was the same way.

I've been doing a ton of psychedelics and marijuana lately and have changed my mind.

I'm getting answers to questions that I've struggled with my entire life. I can't really decide if these answers are coming from the temporary chemical alteration of my brain/central nervous system, which is resulting in my mind being in a better state to sort through this shit; but I also feel like I might be communing with some ethereal source that I haven't reached before because of my personality, beliefs, or fucked neurochemistry.

I'd say I'm agnostic now, definitely still have no interest in organized religion.

I hate saying I'm agnostic, I hate fence-sitters, but it's the way I feel right now.

I found that separating the belief of the possibility of a higher power from organized religion is imperative. The stench and rot of organized religion can cloud your judgement on the subject of the existence of a greater being.

I don't see or hear a god.

I feel a goddess.

When you say you're agnostic, what do you mean? That you think a higher god-like being/entity exists but it doesn't conform to any religion?

That's just called Deism, I think. Even the colloquial use of agnosticism is just 'maybe God exists, maybe it doesn't!'.

Spoiler

Which is just atheism, and Agnosticism is a concept we don't apply to anything else outlandish, but I digress.

 

[Moosichu]

Atheism ain't your problem, OP. You are your own problem.
These days I lean way more to Agnosticism.

Agnosticism and Atheism are orthogonal concepts though.

OP, I've had these struggles before. I still am Atheist but very happy. You can find meaning in life, there is so much amazing out there.

 

[Lothar]

But those people were born, lived their lives (however long it was) and they experienced things within that time. Those experiences mattered at the moment they happened, both to them and the people that cared for them. Those experiences can be directly impacted by the actions of others, either for the better or worse.

I can't support the idea of dismissing the lives and experiences of living beings just because one day they won't be alive.

We might have to just agree to disagree here.

I sincerely wish I could swap the part of my brain that disagrees with you and replace it with yours.

It's like take a person from 5,000 years ago. Does it really matter now if he was happy or sad?

If you just think short term, extremely short term and live totally in the moment pretending non existence isn't coming, then things appear to matter. But that's hard to do. It's really hard to pretend when you see people you care about aging and breaking down around you. It was a bit easier when I was a teenager 20 years ago. I can't just be like "Oh it doesn't matter that we'll all stop existing, that's cool."

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

If you don't think like that then I think you're pretty weird. To be satisfied knowing one day your life will end and that there's nothing beyond death is just bizarre. I can't say whether I truly believe in God or not, I would have to do more research but I truly hope I one day believe and that I'll join him in the afterlife.

I try not to let it get me down for the time being though so as long as I don't think about it I'm fine. Sometimes when I'm trying to sleep though the idea of my parents and family getting older and dying one day terrifies me but at least that motivates me to spend more time with them.

The idea of not existing is so foreign there is no point fretting about it. We live we think the two go hand in hand, the after life as described in the bible takes away your will so you might as well not exist.

I sincerely wish I could swap the part of my brain that disagrees with you and replace it with yours.

It's like take a person from 5,000 years ago. Does it really matter now if he was happy or sad?

If you just think short term, extremely short term and live totally in the moment pretending non existence isn't coming, then things appear to matter. But that's hard to do. It's really hard to pretend when you see people you care about aging and breaking down around you. It was a bit easier when I was a teenager 20 years ago. I can't just be like "Oh it doesn't matter that we'll all stop existing, that's cool."

yes since those feelings would have influenced his actions to the point we'd learn of his existence today.

 

[Audette]

That's not going to happen. The stuff I'm using now is immeasurably more effective than all the antidepressants and antipsychotics I've ever been prescribed.

For sure though, keep telling people how to live their life, I'm sure you're a joy to be around.

No reason to be so defensive, I think that original comment was meant to be a helpful suggestion.
They aren't telling you you have to stop your habits, they said probably.

Anyways for the OP, I think the people on the first page are right. It's not your atheism that is the issue. It's the way you have trained your thoughts.

Remember what's important is the experiences around you. Your friends family and community. Finding direction in life from the groundwork you lay around you. Care and love for stuff and people because it's a part of your life, not because you need to achieve more for the afterlife.

 

[BocoDragon]

There's nothing inherently superior about believing a sky overlord/daddy/protector. It can be appealing depending on your personal experience, but it could just as well be burdensome.

 

[Venfayth]

I sincerely wish I could swap the part of my brain that disagrees with you and replace it with yours.

It's like take a person from 5,000 years ago. Does it really matter now if he was happy or sad?

If you just think short term, extremely short term and live totally in the moment pretending non existence isn't coming, then things appear to matter. But that's hard to do. It's really hard to pretend when you see people you care about aging and breaking down around you. It was a bit easier when I was a teenager 20 years ago. I can't just be like "Oh it doesn't matter that we'll all stop existing, that's cool."

Why do you care about the future more than you care about right now? The future is as intangible to you as the person from 5000 years ago. The only thing tangible to you is right now. The only future you can affect is the direct future, the short term, the extremely short term.

 

[CharminUltra]

Deep fried ice cream is my god. It's great cuz I'll get to fried ice cream heaven sooner than most.

 

[Lucky Seven]

Why would you want to delusionally believe in gods, heaven, etc? Why is "Live your life to the fullest" lost on you? Life is still beautiful without religion, and why do you need a reason to exist while you're busy already existing?

 

[Blargonaut]

I always roll my eyes at the "We are starstuff" quote

I'm dead if the elements aren't me, so to hell with them

 

[LookAtMeGo]

The purpose of life is to have a life of purpose. Some people find that in religion. Others find it elsewhere. Just got to find that thing that gives your life a purpose. A dog maybe?

 

[nkarafo]

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.”

-Carl Sagan

we are permanent, we are eternal. in a million years the atoms that make up you will still be around, in another configuration, possibly a star, possibly a mountain, possibly some animal that hasn't evolved yet.

the idea that the start and end of your life alone defines your role in the universe is a bias that is hard to get past.

But that isn't us. The chemical reactions, the bonds between neurons or whatever makes someone an individual will be gone.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

But that isn't us. The chemical reactions, the bonds between neurons or whatever makes someone an individual will be gone.

Woohoo reductionism.
The atoms and matter prevails until the death of the universe.

 

[Icanplaythat]

When you say you're agnostic, what do you mean? That you think a higher god-like being/entity exists but it doesn't conform to any religion?

That's just called Deism, I think. Even the colloquial use of agnosticism is just 'maybe God exists, maybe it doesn't!'.

Spoiler

Which is just atheism, and Agnosticism is a concept we don't apply to anything else outlandish, but I digress.

No, I say agnostic because I have no idea.

 

[GutsBlade]

I think the problem is that you're a nihilist, not because you're an atheist

this.

 

[TestOfTide]

The trick to not being cynical in your atheism is to not focus too much on all the bad things that happen around world.

Should you want to fix and help where you can? Absolutely, but it's never healthy to focus a lot on problems you can't fix yourself. The beauty of life is that in its chaos, order, and entropy, sometimes bad things happen and sometimes good things happen.

It also helps to not view all religion as just purely harmful ideology. A lot of the time religion is used for awful things, but sometimes it's used for making positive change. If, as an example, a Catholic priest is focusing his religious influence to encourage people to aid the poor and hasn't been involved any sexual abuse scandals, who am I to judge him on his religion?

 

[Blargonaut]

Woohoo reductionism.
The atoms and matter prevails until the death of the universe.

If hell's a heat death then I'd rather freeze amirite

 

[Lothar]

Why do you care about the future more than you care about right now? The future is as intangible to you as the person from 5000 years ago. The only thing tangible to you is right now. The only future you can affect is the direct future, the short term, the extremely short term.

The future is a train coming directly towards you and everyone you care about extremely fast. How can you not care about it? How can it not be the biggest thing on your mind? How can you play on the train tracks and act like everything is fine?

yes since those feelings would have influenced his actions to the point we'd learn of his existence today.

That really matters.

 

[Icanplaythat]

No reason to be so defensive, I think that original comment was meant to be a helpful suggestion.
They aren't telling you you have to stop your habits, they said probably.

Anyways for the OP, I think the people on the first page are right. It's not your atheism that is the issue. It's the way you have trained your thoughts.

Remember what's important is the experiences around you. Your friends family and community. Finding direction in life from the groundwork you lay around you. Care and love for stuff and people because it's a part of your life, not because you need to achieve more for the afterlife.

I wasn't being defensive, more amused with a stranger knowing what's best for me.

 

[Zeuanimals]

Just because there is an end to the story doesn't mean you have to live the story miserably. If anything, not having an all-powerful, all-knowing deity watching over you means that you are in charge of your own life. It can be quite empowering, you make your own fate. It can be frightening too, but overcoming this fear makes you stronger.

Just enjoy life man. It's not long enough so make the best of it.

Not only that, but it makes this life infinitely more precious knowing it's your only chance at life. I don't understand how people who believe in an afterlife can truly care about their time on earth when it's just a test for the next. People commit suicide or do heinous acts to please their god just so they can leave this life and enter heaven. That's apparently how much better it is there.