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[Dance Inferno]

Over the past few months there have been a number of events that have made me realize just how angry, petulant, and immature the internet gaming community is. Now I'm obviously not saying every gamer who posts on the internet is angry, petulant, and immature, but by far the loudest and most passionate voices are those of people who make me embarrassed to identify as a gamer, and these people's voices end up forming the outline of how mainstream society views gaming culture. Interestingly this rarely happens on NeoGAF, which I have found to generally be a pretty sane place to have a conversation, but rather elsewhere on the internet.

Over and over again I have seen this theme where a perceived slight against a video game (which is, just to be clear, an inanimate piece of software) provokes a furious, entitled, and often hurtful response from the gaming community. Here are just a few times that this has happened recently:

• Gamers wish death on Jimmy Kimmel. This was in reaction to him poking fun at the idea of watching other people play video games. For context, the reason he poked fun at video games in this manner is because it's part of this crazy thing he does where he's a comedian for a living. For some reason gamers (and I use that term to refer to the loud, hateful, vocal group) decide that a reasonable response is to flood Jimmy with hate mail wishing him and his family death and disease.
• Blizzard removes Tracer's victory pose and gamers go mental. This is another one of those head scratchers that I just can't understand. Blizzard, the developer of Overwatch, decides that it's going to remove a pose, that they created, for Tracer, a hero that they created, in Overwatch, the game that they created. No big deal, right? It's their game, let them do what they want. However if you checked out the Overwatch forums after that announcement you would have stepped into a morass of hateful and borderline sexist commentary that mostly went unchallenged. That was the day that I was introduced to the term "SJW", which stands for social justice warrior, used as a pejorative insult. That just blew my mind. These people think that gaming culture is so victimized that the idea of someone asking for equality and better treatment of women/minorities is an existential attack that must be forcefully repelled.
• Alison Rapp is fired by Nintendo after an organized online smear campaign. This is just the most recent in a string of repulsive GamerGate activities that has been going on for several years at this point. The idea that someone could be so offended by localization changes to a video game (again, an inanimate piece of software) that they are compelled to focus the blame on a human being and actually strive to ruin their livelihood by getting them fired is paradigm shifting for me. These are not passionate fans, they are repulsive human beings. Of course the person they choose also happens to be female, which appears to be a theme with these groups. They're all pro-women when those women are attractive digital representations of women that they can ogle at (see: Tracer), but when real women come into the picture they could not be more hateful.

It's gotten to a point where I just have no faith in the gaming community anymore. I used to be able to just zone this stuff out and hand wave it away as the actions of an unrepresentative vocal minority, but after a certain point it just becomes difficult for me to continue making excuses for hateful and bigoted behavior. It's not just the idea that people voice their disagreement, but the fact that they actually reach out and attempt to instill fear in the targets of their hate. Sending death threats to women in the industry, SWAT'ing people on Twitch and traumatizing their families, organizing smear campaigns intended to ruin people's lives, these are not reasonable reactions to any type of disagreement and I just cannot keep pretending that the community I consider myself part of is the same community that is originating these heinous acts.

I don't really know what I wanted to get out of this post, I just needed to vent. I wonder if people here feel similarly or if you are somehow able to separate the people who perpetrate these acts from the gaming community that you consider yourself a part of. And either way, is there something to be done to combat this? Or is this just something that needs to run its course?

 

[the1npc]

This is why I read game news, previews, etc. I stay away from the "drama" theads.

 

[JazzmanZ]

I simply don't get involved with those discussions and move on elsewhere

 

[mishakoz]

Stop thinking of those loud mouth, nasty people as "gamers" and start thinking about them as "people who are nasty who play video games."

I, like yourself, are in no way allied with them because we both happen to hold a controller on the weekends.

There will always be nasty people on the internet, but they are everywhere and not exclusively people who play games. Don't feel like we are all some cultural group and I think you'll be a lot happier. Those people who attacked Jimmy Kimmel aren't gamers, they are dicks.

 

[MicSte79]

RE: The OP

It isn't just gamers. We live in a "must have it now" society. And they are lazy. It's why there is an obesity problem in the US and UK but that's for another discussion I think. Basically, many kids today don't want to go out and kick a ball or ride a bike. They spend all their spare time staring at an iPad and developing bad habits.

There are many good gamers out there too - I have met some awesome people here at the GAF who are very helpful. We shouldn't generalise any kind of social group though. Just because someone plays video games AND is an a**hole online, doesn't mean that this is generally how gamers are. You could get a guy who hates video games and behaves in exactly the same manner.

It's the minority that spoil it for everyone else.

EDIT: This post has spiralled way off topic - apologies.

 

[Humdinger]

I have the same beliefs as you do about it, more or less, but I'm just not that upset by it anymore. I don't think of it as reflecting the whole gaming community, just a vocal minority.

I think you find miscreants in all walks of life, and my general attitude is to not waste my time worrying about them or what they are doing. I avoid them and assume their lives must be pretty lousy, for them to be acting this way, and I figure they'll get their due eventually.

I suppose you can criticize me for taking a passive approach to the problem. I do contribute money to causes that fight against it. But I just don't want to spend my mental/emotional energy battling with nit-wits.

It is discouraging, though. It reflects poorly on the gaming "community."

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

The internet allows for a much larger swath of individual ideas and emotions than we used to have, and ease of access means that as time goes on, more, not less, of these extremist gamers are going to make their way online.

It's a huge black eye to the group as a whole, but to believe that these people are in any way the majority gives them more credit than they deserve. These people are essentially the Tea Party of gaming, and acknowledging them only gives them power.

You know who the good people are, they're your friends, they're 99% of the people on Gaf. People who think rationally and don't spend their time trying to force a belief on others or threaten the livelihoods of other gamers or people in the industry. It's a shame that stuff like Nintendo caving in to this vocal minority happened, but as a gamer, you just keep portraying the majority, good people who just like to enjoy games and have fun.

At least that's what I think.

 

[Gherid__lacksGPS]

Fuck the internet. I miss split screen and co op.

 

[chaobreaker]

I simply don't get involved with those discussions and move on elsewhere

The rest of the gaming community collectively burying their heads in the sand over these issues is the biggest reason this shit still goes on.

 

[sn00zer]

I just figured it was a generation babysat by online videogames in the 2000s.

 

[Glass Shark]

Young (usually white) males have pent-up anger and aggression that the world is changing and their outmoded thought patterns are being left behind, so they lash out at what they perceive to be the threat to their domination over society. It just so happens that young (usually white) males are also the prime demographic for video games that provoke discussion and community online. So these wretched individuals naturally congregate with like-minded morons and form a hivemind of awfulness.

The important thing to remember is that for every one vocal idiot spewing hate and bigotry, there are 10 or 100 or even 1,000 normal folks who just like games. It sucks that the worst people are the loudest, but it's always been that way and will always be that way. Just look at Donald Trump for all the evidence you need.

 

[Azoor]

I honestly think it's the internet in general, not just the gaming community. I've seen that sort of drama in a lot of places like sports, cars, WWE and many others.

 

[Bgamer90]

I've been feeling pretty similar.

 

[Kyrios]

I simply don't get involved with those discussions and move on elsewhere

Yuuup, same here.

 

[Storm Chamber]

I give this thread until 8PM

 

[Blablurn]

I understand the OP. Crazy things are happening out there. What helped me was going to twitter. Over there I got to know some legit good gaming guys and gals. Most of them are on GAF too. There is still good out there.

 

[BocoDragon]

Video gaming is one of the single largest topics of discussion on the internet. Considering the character of the internet gaming community is basically like considering the character of humanity: Mostly good people with a good fraction of ugly trash.

I'm sure the gaming community is more skewed to be male, adolescent (in age and attitude), and perhaps having more issues like mysogyny than the population at large. But even putting that aside, you shouldn't really expect millions and millions of people to be uniformly tasteful.

 

[Hektor]

The mistake you're doing is to think that there is some kind of videogamer community. In reality, multiple millions of people are playing videogames nowadays, there's as much of a "gaming community" as there is of a "movie watcher" or "food eater" community.

When there are multiple millions of people involved, there will always be some dumbfucks. Sucks, but that's reality and you'll face that in every part of your life unfortunately.

 

[sn00zer]

I honestly think it's the internet in general, not just the gaming community. I've seen that sort of drama in a lot of places like sports, cars, WWE and many others.

Yeah, for whatever reason 4chan culture caught on in a big way in the late 2000s. Its kind of defined internet culture in general.

 

[TheGreatMusashi]

Young (usually white) males have pent-up anger and aggression that the world is changing and their outmoded thought patterns are being left behind, so they lash out at what they perceive to be the threat to their domination over society. It just so happens that young (usually white) males are also the prime demographic for video games that provoke discussion and community online. So these wretched individuals naturally congregate with like-minded morons and form a hivemind of awfulness.

Let's just blame (usually white) males. No one else (usually) causes any problems.

 

[Bboy AJ]

There's good and bad, like anything. Keep in mind the video game community is foolish enough to move from the already bad practice of preorders to literally funding games with no return on investment. Early access is somehow a thing. People actually pay for unfinished games. And now big players get crowd funded, like Mighty No. 9. It's awful and totally anti consumer.

 

[John Kowalski]

You have to be very selective these days, more active in searching and building your own place. I don't post a lot on gaf about games but i post elsewhere where i feel much better posting about games. I also read more specific things from more places with more specific interests.

Frankly, i kinda miss being embedded in the community in general, but nowadays i refuse to do it. Much of it doesn't reflect what i would like to be a part of, both as it pertains to the uglier side of it, i.e. the harassment, racism, sexism, etc., but also the way people consume and interact with games. It seems i have grown a particular relationship with games that is just as strong, but really different from the standard, even on gaf.

Gladly it seems i'm finding more and more people online that i see engage with the community as i do, or are the community i like to be a part of, which is a positive.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

Young (usually white) males have pent-up anger and aggression that the world is changing and their outmoded thought patterns are being left behind, so they lash out at what they perceive to be the threat to their domination over society. It just so happens that young (usually white) males are also the prime demographic for video games that provoke discussion and community online. So these wretched individuals naturally congregate with like-minded morons and form a hivemind of awfulness.

The important thing to remember is that for every one vocal idiot spewing hate and bigotry, there are 10 or 100 or even 1,000 normal folks who just like games. It sucks that the worst people are the loudest, but it's always been that way and will always be that way. Just look at Donald Trump for all the evidence you need.

You're not actually serious are you?

 

[Glass Shark]

Looks like this is going to turn out to be a great honeypot thread, great job OP, would reply again

You're not actually serious are you?

Serious as a heart attack.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I'm not sure if this is what I'd consider the "larger internet gaming community" or just an extremely vocal minority. I mean, there are millions of gamers on the internet. You probably just don't hear about the ones not doing crazy shit

 

[CaptainGyro]

It's gotten to a point where I just have no faith in the gaming community anymore. I used to be able to just zone this stuff out and hand wave it away as the actions of an unrepresentative vocal minority,

I don't get it. It is an unrepresentative vocal minority, so why let it bother you so much. I don't even think "mainstream society" views us the way you think they do because of this vocal minority, and people who know me don't think of me this way, so I can't really say I am very concerned about it

 

[blast processed]

The retro threads here on GAF are a sanctuary from modern gaming. Join us.

 

[stufte]

Young (usually white) males have pent-up anger and aggression that the world is changing and their outmoded thought patterns are being left behind, so they lash out at what they perceive to be the threat to their domination over society. It just so happens that young (usually white) males are also the prime demographic for video games that provoke discussion and community online. So these wretched individuals naturally congregate with like-minded morons and form a hivemind of awfulness.

The important thing to remember is that for every one vocal idiot spewing hate and bigotry, there are 10 or 100 or even 1,000 normal folks who just like games. It sucks that the worst people are the loudest, but it's always been that way and will always be that way. Just look at Donald Trump for all the evidence you need.

(usually white) people, amirite? And this is an example of why I personally am disenchanted with the gaming community. Everyone seems so wrapped up in identity politics that games can't even be fun for them anymore. People only want to talk about how progressive they are and how they won't play a game/support a studio/etc. unless they fit the current popular political ideology.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

I'm not sure if this is what I'd consider the "larger internet gaming community" or just an extremely vocal minority. I mean, there are millions of gamers on the internet. You probably just don't hear about the ones not doing crazy shit

I don't get it. It is an unrepresentative vocal minority, so why let it bother you so much. I don't even think "mainstream society" views us the way you think they do because of this vocal minority, and people who know me don't think of me this way, so I can't really say I am very concerned about it

Maybe it is a minority. Maybe the vast majority of gamers are reasonable people.

Problem is the actions of this minority are starting to have massive ramifications for the gaming community as a whole. This minority has caused people's actual lives to be tangibly ruined. There comes a point when things become a problem that cannot be ignored. We are well past that point.

 

[SkyTurnsRed]

The retro threads here on GAF are a sanctuary from modern gaming. Join us.

Link me. I want in.

 

[CaptainGyro]

Problem is the actions of this minority are starting to have massive ramifications for the gaming community as a whole.

like what?

I know you said they are ruing the lives of some people, but I don't consider that the " massive ramifiications for the gaming community as a whole"

 

[blast processed]

Link me. I want in.

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=555654

 

[nicanica]

The feeling you have is mutual and perspectively correct.

The majority of awful people play video games as a pastime. No need to ask which came first, just know that "Gamers" as a connotation more often than not represents the worst in immature children, regardless of actual age.

Just enjoy / play video games, and stay out of the hivemind knee jerk nonsense.

 

[Poster#1]

I love how the thread evolved into what the OP hates about gamers.

 

[ST2K]

I have a problem where games fanbases can ruin a game for me, so the wider action of people who claim the gamer flag as a whole bothers me even more.

For me, it helps to keep in mind that's an irrational position to hold. A vocal minority is just that, and you shouldn't let that ruin a hobby you genuinely enjoy and it shouldn't reflect on the hobby itself. That position consistently applied would ruin virtually anything you can enjoy in life.

 

[Joyful]

gaming is fine OP

everythings fine

Spoiler

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

like what?

Like the fact that they have directly caused someone to lose her job and now doxxed and tormented her family and friends, for just one recent example touched on in the OP.

Part of being in a community is being above stuff like this. Sticking our heads in the sand because they haven't personally affected us... That won't help anything. This stuff can't be ignored anymore, and I fully get where OP is coming from. Things have just been very different in the gaming community for the past 2 years and I'm sure that's something we all have noticed.

 

[ar4757]

Young (usually white) males have pent-up anger and aggression that the world is changing and their outmoded thought patterns are being left behind, so they lash out at what they perceive to be the threat to their domination over society. It just so happens that young (usually white) males are also the prime demographic for video games that provoke discussion and community online. So these wretched individuals naturally congregate with like-minded morons and form a hivemind of awfulness.

The important thing to remember is that for every one vocal idiot spewing hate and bigotry, there are 10 or 100 or even 1,000 normal folks who just like games. It sucks that the worst people are the loudest, but it's always been that way and will always be that way. Just look at Donald Trump for all the evidence you need.

Does Donald Trump then also contradict you, as it must be these "normal folks" who are voting for him, considering he is leading (among Republicans, of course). Just kidding, But yeah you're right regarding the minority

 

[Raist]

Just ignore the threads/articles about this kind of stuff, I guess?

 

[Nickle]

Just ignore the stuff you don't like, no one is forcing you to associate with the gamers you don't like.

 

[TheActtionFigure]

Yeah the gaming community is one of the most toxic, immature, petty, and nitpicky group of individuals that I've ever interacted with. This is coming from a guy that frequents political and hip-hop forums. Speculative arguments that literally go in circles, crying in favor of censorship, and childish hardware dick measuring contest also top the list of reasons I think that most gaming communities are garbage.

After 30 years of gaming I feel that games are better than they've ever been. So it saddens me that I cannot relate/tolerate a great portion of our community.

 

[Azoor]

I absolutely agree.

I was about to post that this mentality leaks into GAF too, and I couldn't get a better example:



It's seriously depressing, and it's a shame that I can be associated with that behavior because I have a shared hobby with these people.

You can't have a hobby and expect everyone to be nice and agree with you. You shouldn't impose the "guilt by association" on yourself because of them.

 

[Mass Effect]

This is why I read game news, previews, etc. I stay away from the "drama" theads.

I try to do the same, however, it's gotten out of control at this point. It's pretty difficult for me to ignore.

The rest of the gaming community collectively burying their heads in the sand over these issues is the biggest reason this shit still goes on.

Well, demanding people to care isn't going to help the situation either. Other than the latter or trying to convince people to speak out against it, what else can you do? If people don't want to get involved, there's not much else you can do.

It's a pretty complicated situation. On one hand, a lot of people just simply don't want to deal with the "drama" of the gaming industry. But on the other, people's lives are being ruined. Hell, someone might even be killed soon enough. When is it no longer acceptable to just ignore?

 

[Fhtagn]

Am I wrong? Honest question, I'm open to have my mind changed on a subject if I'm incorrect.

You're incorrect because even if you're right about what you're asserting, literally the only reason Nintendo found out is because GG people stalked her until they dug up enough dirt to end her career. And they have even stopped at that, they are continuing to harass her and her family.

Ok. I still don't see why I should let this bother me, sorry

Because the fewer people who few safe being involved with video games, the fewer people making them, the fewer perspectives involved and the medium will eventually narrow down to nothing worth spending your time on.

 

[The Elite]

Yeah, I'm quoting you in case you feel like deleting this.

Ok.

The person seems genuinely clueless/misinformed/ignorant. Maybe providing the correct information instead of trying to get them banned would be a better approach.

Another ugly side of the gaming community. Everyone seems to be out for blood these days.

 

[Glass Shark]

Yeah the gaming community is one of the most toxic, immature, petty, and nitpicky group of individuals that I've ever interacted with. This is coming from a guy that frequents political and hip-hop forums. Speculative arguments that literally go in circles, crying in favor of censorship, and childish hardware dick measuring contest also top the list of reasons I think that most gaming communities are garbage.

After 30 years of gaming I feel that games are better than they've ever been. So it saddens me that I cannot relate/tolerate a great portion of our community.

Someone smarter than me really needs to do a long-term study about this. Does gaming attract the type of people that act this way, or does gaming turn people this way? I honestly don't know of any other community that is as consistently vile as gaming.

 

[LegendofLex]

Ok.

The person seems genuinely clueless/misinformed/ignorant. Maybe providing the correct information instead of trying to get them banned would be a better approach.

It falls within a pattern of concern trolling that fits the Gamergate MO. While I'd hate to see someone who's legitimately clueless suffer, there's a reasonable expectation that this kind of behavior will harm and derail discussion and continue to contribute to life being difficult for the people at the center of the conversation.

 

[Cybit]

I was at ECCC at a panel, and a question was asked of a woman who worked at Penny Arcade about what happens when you see the negative side of fandom. She pointed out that even working for a company that has had Foot in Mouth issues internally, when it comes to external negativity - she goes to 4 PAXes a year, and when she goes to those, it reminds her of what the actual gaming community is like.

It's easy to look at the internet and think that what floats to the top is representative of everyone - but that's not true. We know controversy and negativity sell, so that's what gets blasted to us all day, every day, online. But it isn't - and when you think back of every single person you've ever met online, and every single interaction you've ever had online, and tabulated those versus the negative interactions; I think you will find that the percentage of good interactions vs bad interactions is pretty high. It's just that we remember and dwell on the bad ones when they happen on a personal level, and we are exposed online (and in the media) to what sells the most, which is controversy and negativity.

Just my two cents.

 

[CaptainGyro]

Like the fact that they have directly caused someone to lose her job and now doxxed and tormented her family and friends, for just one recent example touched on in the OP.

Part of being in a community is being above stuff like this. Sticking our heads in the sand because they haven't personally affected us... That won't help anything. This stuff can't be ignored anymore, and I fully get where OP is coming from. Things have just been very different in the gaming community for the past 2 years and I'm sure that's something we all have noticed.

The Op asked if I was able to separate myself and other harmless gamers from these people , and yes I am.
I don't know what you want me to do. Get disenchanted with the whole gaming community because of a vocal minority? I'm not going to do it, i think that would be stupid

 

[SeanTSC]

Over the past few months there have been a number of events that have made me realize just how angry, petulant, and immature the internet gaming community is. Now I'm obviously not saying every gamer who posts on the internet is angry, petulant, and immature, but by far the loudest and most passionate voices are those of people who make me embarrassed to identify as a gamer, and these people's voices end up forming the outline of how mainstream society views gaming culture. Interestingly this rarely happens on NeoGAF, which I have found to generally be a pretty sane place to have a conversation, but rather elsewhere on the internet.

You can thank the great moderation team here for that. I know that I can slip into a being a real asshole to people that I perceive as doing something "wrong," supporting something vile, or being a bad person in my eyes. I self-check myself a lot, because I want to keep posting on GAF and I'm glad that the mods are how they are. I was 3-Day'd once because I got a little too personal attack-y with someone who was being a complete scumbag about some Food Stamp stuff (and they were smacked too). I was upset at first, but it was the right thing to do and I'm glad that I had the time to step back and cool off.

I don't really know what I wanted to get out of this post, I just needed to vent. I wonder if people here feel similarly or if you are somehow able to separate the people who perpetrate these acts from the gaming community that you consider yourself a part of. And either way, is there something to be done to combat this? Or is this just something that needs to run its course?

Yeah, I feel like this too. I do a lot of venting in an ancient MMO IRC channel in the depths of the internet. I'm really tired and disgusted of how awful the internet at large has let people become and it sucks. I don't know what anyone can about it besides having new 21st century lawmakers who actually understand the internet and can pass some real legislation against harassment without infringing on rights, which is really hard to do. I think something will be done about these absolutely disgusting Online Harassment Campaigns eventually, but probably not until some people are seriously hurt and/or die from either Suicide due to the cruel and vicious attacks or Execution by a SWAT team. Unfortunately, that likely means that we'll have some knee-jerk laws passed.

Thankfully, I have the Hype of GAF and the Positivity of groups like Easy Allies to keep me upbeat.