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[pr0cs]

I have no preconceptions that Microsoft will be in the lead next Gen, all I care about is giving Sony enough competition to keep them BOTH earning my money, working hard to attract new gamers and new developers for new experiences.
Quite frankly I think it's a bad idea to have one company run away with a market, they get complacent and lazy, stop giving feedback at the direction the company is going and simply expect you to buy their product because you always have instead of because they want or need your business.
In the end, none of them are your friends, it's their job to try and suck as much money out of your wallet as possible.
It's your job to make them earn your business.
I will say though, Microsoft is poised to do MUCH better this Gen which is a good thing for all gamers including those that hate their products.

 

[H4ze]

Sony isn't doing shit for their customers, right now, I am day one XboxSX, just seems like the better package for me and since I am not that interested in Sonys exclusives, it's not a hrad choice right now for me.

But we will see and down the line, I will buy both consoles anyway, so maybe this already takes me out of the equation for the most selling system.

 

[Dory16]

You at least read the entire post before drive by trolling right?

 

[GermanZepp]

Anyone remember at the first of this gen when the narrative was that the ps4 didn't have any games? This has certainly been an interesting generation.

That was not a narrative, the first two years were dry IMO. I remember only KZ Shadowfall, Driveclub, Bloodborne EDIT: and we all know how those game turn out. People was calling it the indiestation. Santa monica cancelled game screw up the pace of first party games in the beginning, MM didn't launch a PS4 game yet.

On topic: I think Microsoft is just fine. Let's see the machines first and then how the games roll

 

[nowhat]

You at least read the entire post before drive by trolling right?

Yeah I did. I still think it's far from a fact that we'll get hardware refreshes every couple of years.

 

[mckmas8808]

Microsoft doesn't care about generations anymore. They're not interested in the videogame console business the way it has been structured since the early 80s. I don't even think they care about selling consoles, or having the most powerful system. They want people on GamePass. That is their goal. They are trying to turn Xbox into a brand for services. I think they would be fine with a fraction of PS5 sales as long as every one of those consoles is on GamePass. The PC is just a bonus and for $5 a month the massive PC gaming userbase can get on board with that same service.

I don't know if it is going to work. But based on listening to what they say (not just Spencer, but Nadella on down), and based on their actions, this seems obvious to me. Eventually it has to work - Office 365 is not going to subsidize Xbox forever if GP and xCloud fail to turn into a profitable business. We will see.

You are right! And it's MS that has to prove that doing something differently in the console space is going to work. Because for 35 years we've seen it work one SPECIFIC way, every single time. MS is challenging that.

 

[Dory16]

Yeah I did. I still think it's far from a fact that we'll get hardware refreshes every couple of years.

As long as you are clear about the difference between getting married and releasing a console I thank you for your contribution.

 

[diffusionx]

Yeah I did. I still think it's far from a fact that we'll get hardware refreshes every couple of years.

I don’t think there is any question we will see it. Especially as MS is moving to this new model. Hell we might get new Xbox systems more frequently than every 3 years.

What we saw last gen, where the console makers holding on to absurdly outdated hardware for 7 years trying desperately to keep the price up... it’s just not happening.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Have you used GamePass yet? I was skeptical but it is a genuinely awesome service. I'd argue that if Sony can't see what a potentially massive Netflix-type disruption it can be, they're not doing their job.

Sony is making more money in their current setup. You might be happy with gamepass, and you are free to. But your happiness does not translate to more money for Microsoft. Microsoft is trying to earn your good will, but understand that at some point that good will have to become money.

Sony is doing fine with their own subscription service and streaming. The PSNow is profitable, and it allows downloads. Sony has paying customers, and everything is pulling their own weight. Not even PSVR is losing money. Sony has a healthy and sustainable buisness plan.

I don’t think there is any question we will see it. Especially as MS is moving to this new model. Hell we might get new Xbox systems more frequently than every 3 years.

Good luck to Microsoft, they are going to need it. They are giving up the advantage of fixed hardware, and their odds of succeeding is not good.

What we saw last gen, where the console makers holding on to absurdly outdated hardware for 7 years trying desperately to keep the price up... it’s just not happening.

It is happening right now. Playstation 4 is holding well despite a lack of price drops. No point denying what is currently happening. Just because Microsoft couldn't sustain hardware sales doesn't mean no one else could.

 

[Chastten]

The Xbox-brand is still pretty much dead here in the Netherlands. I mean, you can't lose if you aren't even in the race anymore, so technically you're right...

 

[Evil Calvin]

I'm buying both so I don't really care. Throw the Switch "pro' into that in a year or two and I'll be golden!

 

[Shmunter]

Rolling out a 1080p cheap nextgen box may go a long way. It’s just too bad it fails us core gamers who want max advancement at the advent of a new gen.

 

[Dory16]

Sony is making more money in their current setup. You might be happy with gamepass, and you are free to. But your happiness does not translate to more money for Microsoft. Microsoft is trying to earn your good will, but understand that at some point that good will have to become money.

Sony is doing fine with their own subscription service and streaming. The PSNow is profitable, and it allows downloads. Sony has paying customers, and everything is pulling their own weight. Not even PSVR is losing money. Sony has a healthy and sustainable buisness plan.


It is happening right now. Playstation 4 is holding well despite a lack of price drops. No point denying what is currently happening. Just because Microsoft couldn't sustain hardware sales doesn't mean no one else could.

Am I mistaken or Sony released the Pro a year before MS released the X? My memory is fuzzy.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Am I mistaken or Sony released the Pro a year before MS released the X? My memory is fuzzy.

Yes indeed. And yet Pro was not a new console generation. PS5 is. While Microsoft is trying to kill generations and will likely trip up doing so.

 

[Psykodad]

Have you used GamePass yet? I was skeptical but it is a genuinely awesome service. I'd argue that if Sony can't see what a potentially massive Netflix-type disruption it can be, they're not doing their job.

Sony released 4 of the 5 most successful consoles ever, incl the PS3 which was their worst gen.

You really want to argue that Sony doesn't know how to approach the market?

 

[CJY]

Wait til Sony reveals the PS5 will have 128GB of RAM. Only then will we know who the true winner is.

 

[nowhat]

As long as you are clear about the difference between getting married and releasing a console I thank you for your contribution.

Yeah. I thought the point was quite obvious - we've seen one mid-gen refresh happen in any recent console generation. You cannot extrapolate that to mean it will continue to happen from now on. I'm not saying it's out of the question, it may be likely even. But if it's a fact, surely you can post a reference? Because no matter how much you believe something doesn't make it a fact. The distinction seems to be easily lost nowadays.

 

[Dory16]

The Xbox-brand is still pretty much dead here in the Netherlands. I mean, you can't lose if you aren't even in the race anymore, so technically you're right...

The last 2 things I've seen about the Netherlands are now "Marco Van Basten threw the Nazi sign on live tv wthout being drunk" and "The Xbox brand is dead in the Netherlands".
I think the real concern here should be "What the hell is happening in the Netherlands" ?

 

[diffusionx]

Sony is making more money in their current setup. You might be happy with gamepass, and you are free to. But your happiness does not translate to more money for Microsoft. Microsoft is trying to earn your good will, but understand that at some point that good will have to become money.

Sony is doing fine with their own subscription service and streaming. The PSNow is profitable, and it allows downloads. Sony has paying customers, and everything is pulling their own weight. Not even PSVR is losing money. Sony has a healthy and sustainable buisness plan.

MS' pitch to customers now seems to be: spend $10 a month, play 100 games, play all our first-party AAA games day one including Halo, Gears, and Forza, play the games from all the studios we spent tons of money acquiring, and hop on the new console when you want because it plays all the old stuff too. I think that' sa powerful pitch. Again, we will see how it plays out. We will see if people take to it and we will see if MS turns it into a strong business. But they're not running the business the way the business has been run in the past.

It is happening right now. Playstation 4 is holding well despite a lack of price drops. No point denying what is currently happening. Just because Microsoft couldn't sustain hardware sales doesn't mean no one else could.

Not sure if you know this but Sony sells an upgraded version of their console. They even came out with one before MS did. One of their stated reasons for doing so was because they wanted to keep people on PlayStation and not migrating over to the PC platform (which is what people did last-gen).

 

[Dory16]

Yes indeed. And yet Pro was not a new console generation. PS5 is. While Microsoft is trying to kill generations and will likely trip up doing so.

You clearly know more than me about MS's plans. I look forward to your own OP about that.

 

[Hinedorf]

The only way to even become competitive in the market again is to offer things Sony doesn't. This last generation saw a virtual tidal wave of exclusives land on Sony and avoid Microsoft. If that pattern doesn't immediately change there's nothing Microsoft can do other than strive to be second fiddle in the console market.

However Microsoft expanding to PC is why it really doesn't matter. It appears to me Microsoft really isn't in the console business anymore. If I can play every exclusive Microsoft has to offer on my PC, why would I ever purchase the new Xbox(whatever the hell it's called).

If I want Sony exclusives, I know I have to buy the Playstation and I'm okay with it. Tell me why I would ever need to buy a Microsoft console going forward if i have MS Gamepass on PC.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Wait til Sony reveals the PS5 will have 128GB of RAM. Only then will we know who the true winner is.

Sony will only market power if they accidentally had the most powerful console. Sony just focus on having games. Exclusive games that showcase the hardware. The mainstream approach.

MS and Xbox is trying to find a way to make money without taking on Sony head on. I am not sure such a way exists.

 

[Dory16]

Wait til Sony reveals the PS5 will have 128GB of RAM. Only then will we know who the true winner is.

of DDR1? Because if I want to spend 5000£ I'm thinking of other purchases.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

MS is doing better this time, but it'll take much more to restore xbox brand outside US and UK.

New Xbox disappeared from worldwide top twitter trending in less than day.

Sony generates more buzz with much less.

Let's count how many blogs,podcasts and news stories are still popping up 5 days later. The buzz is insane not sure what you are talking about. The reaction videos alone proved this is one of the most important marketing moves in a very long time.

 

[Psykodad]

The last 2 things I've seen about the Netherlands are now "Marco Van Basten threw the Nazi sign on live tv wthout being drunk"

Van Basten didn't throw a nazi sign though

and "The Xbox brand is dead in the Netherlands".
I think the real concern here should be "What the hell is happening in the Netherlands" ?

Fun-fact:
When Xbox One released in the Netherlands, mainstream newsoutlets published articles in which retailers told how MS made absolutely no effort to either promote Xbone, or even inform retailers about launch details.

The real concern should be whether or not MS actually has faith in their own product this time?

 

[pr0cs]

Tell me why I would ever need to buy a Microsoft console going forward if i have MS Gamepass on PC.

It's pretty clear that they don't care, only that you're playing on a platform that they can make money on. PC is Microsoft's bread and butter.
It's just a shame it took them so long to figure that out

 

[Bernkastel]

Anyone remember at the first of this gen when the narrative was that the ps4 didn't have any games? This has certainly been an interesting generation.

Just a few weeks ago, the narrative was "Xbox is behind schedule and has not revealed anything, thats a disaster!"

Tom Warren : Hardly anyone has Scarlett dev kits because Microsoft are planning to surprise Sony

Now before everyone turns into a game dev commenting what "should be done" from their armchair Also, Phil said they just started shipping dev kits during X019.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Dory16]

Yeah. I thought the point was quite obvious - we've seen one mid-gen refresh happen in any recent console generation. You cannot extrapolate that to mean it will continue to happen from now on. I'm not saying it's out of the question, it may be likely even. But if it's a fact, surely you can post a reference? Because no matter how much you believe something doesn't make it a fact. The distinction seems to be easily lost nowadays.

I didn't state it as a fact. If it came across as if I was, I clarify it now by saying that I consider it a reasonable assumption and reading your post in the quote, we agree.

 

[nowhat]

I didn't state it as a fact. If it came across as if I was, I clarify it now by saying that I consider it a reasonable assumption and reading your post in the quote, we agree.

Yeah, apologies too if I came out trollish. Had a bitch of a day at work - what better way to relax than nitpicking and pedantry online!

 

[Saruhashi]

Meh.
It's going to come down to price and games.

For most people if they are looking at graphics or performance comparisons on multi-platform games they are going to look at price.
If one console costs 100 buck more than the other then those advantages in performance had better be worth 100 bucks.

Then people are going to look at games.

The problem with "losing" a generation is that your competitor may have spent that generation building a big reputation for their exclusive franchises.
So when the new consoles come out people are excited about the next iteration of Successful Game A,

The only real hope I see for Microsoft next generation is in the "Game Pass" idea.

 

[Dory16]

The only way to even become competitive in the market again is to offer things Sony doesn't. This last generation saw a virtual tidal wave of exclusives land on Sony and avoid Microsoft. If that pattern doesn't immediately change there's nothing Microsoft can do other than strive to be second fiddle in the console market.

However Microsoft expanding to PC is why it really doesn't matter. It appears to me Microsoft really isn't in the console business anymore. If I can play every exclusive Microsoft has to offer on my PC, why would I ever purchase the new Xbox(whatever the hell it's called).

If I want Sony exclusives, I know I have to buy the Playstation and I'm okay with it. Tell me why I would ever need to buy a Microsoft console going forward if i have MS Gamepass on PC.

Because you enjoy games more on your sofa, with your controller on your lap and with the surround sound of your atmos receiver. Because your PC screen isn't a 55" 4k monitor. Because after a year of PC gaming, you are now reduced to having to play the best games at low settings with your outdated graphic card. Because you want seamless integration between your games, streaming services and tv on the same screen and from the same location in your living room (your sofa). Because 2000£ is more than what you are willing to spend on your hobby despite your passion. Believe it or not but the majority of gamers fall into one of those categories.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Rolling out xcloud at the same or comparable quality as stadia

Do you hate MS OP? I though you said they were going to win?

 

[Dory16]

Do you hate MS OP? I though you said they were going to win?

Agreed I'm not setting the bar high but streaming is not the most competitive area at the moment to say the least

 

[Dr. Claus]

I'm buying both so I don't really care. Throw the Switch "pro' into that in a year or too and I'll be golden!

Yep. The need to try and console war is silly and rather pathetic. Games are games and as long as there are good games, I will be playing them - regardless of system (except for Stadia, fuck that anticonsumer bullshit)

 

[Phase]

That's cool and all, but it's all about the games. Let's see what they come out with. My Xbox One X has been collecting dust since I bought it.

 

[Chastten]

The last 2 things I've seen about the Netherlands are now "Marco Van Basten threw the Nazi sign on live tv wthout being drunk" and "The Xbox brand is dead in the Netherlands".
I think the real concern here should be "What the hell is happening in the Netherlands" ?

Well, Microsoft sure isn't happening around here.

All the goodwill they created with the Xbox 360 was destroyed in a couple of months by treating most of Europe as second rank markets and releasing the Xbox One a year later then everywhere else. By the time it did came out, there was absolutely no reason to buy a One anymore. Combined with the overal terrible marketing (Kinect? LOL) I'd say Microsoft has to start from even below zero if they ever want to gain a foothold again here.

 

[CatLady]

To the more experienced users of this forum: why did the "clickbait" label just appear next to "opinion" in my thread title on the main page? I haven't referenced any links whatsoever, I have just given my personal opinion about the console market. This is a gaming forum right?

I'm not a GAF forum expert so I have no idea how that would get on there if you didn't put it there yourself. It's disgusting if someone else can just add that to your topic, especially since it is not clickbait.

 

[Dory16]

I'm not a GAF forum expert so I have no idea how that would get on there if you didn't put it there yourself. It's disgusting if someone else can just add that to your topic, especially since it is not clickbait.

Colour me stunned and disappointed. I did not put it there, obviously. I won't say more than that not to risk a ban. Having my thread title sullied is bad enough.

 

[eastwood333]

Im starting to think that MS isn't paying you guys enough to do this level of blatant shilling.

I am beyond sick of all the praise for MS without them actually delivering anything that is game changing. The only thing MS has won, is making noise and convincing certain people that noise means winning.

Im glad that we have people that believe that MS has next gen in the bag, but let's see them deliver something first.

Define game changing.

For me,3 generations of BC with old games getting essentially remasters for free =game changing. All the new 1st party investment will surely give sony more competition. Gamepass-1st party exclusives launching day one = game changing for many. MS is essentially addressing every issue thats plagued Xbox in the past.

 

[Hinedorf]

Because you enjoy games more on your sofa, with your controller on your lap and with the surround sound of your atmos receiver. Because your PC screen isn't a 55" 4k monitor. Because after a year of PC gaming, you are now reduced to having to play the best games at low settings with your outdated graphic card. Because you want seamless integration between your games, streaming services and tv on the same screen and from the same location in your living room (your sofa). Because 2000£ is more than what you are willing to spend on your hobby despite your passion. Believe it or not but the majority of gamers fall into one of those categories.

Would rather play a foot away from my 32 inch 4k gaming monitor than 10 feet away from my 60 inch 4k tv.

Computer Gaming Chair > Sofa

My PC rig is more than 2.5k$ as is. I really don't care where the majority of gamers are at in life, I'm a filthy hardcore degenerate gamer that there is no cost too great for the hobby I love. I work hard so I can play hard, and in saying that there is absolutely no reason for me to ever buy another MS Console.

 

[Jtibh]

Said before say it again at the risk some idiots (i can name them) report me and want to ban me.
Microsoft screwed up the reveal with this 3 minute rushed presentation at the beginning of a 3 hour show in their very own theater.
They need to be a bit more modest and humble and just show till the reveal their games and services and leave the console and specs for e3.

They do all the right things and care about the gamers this time around.
They just have soo much going on with xcloud and gamepass and series x and keeping xbox x alive as a part of the new gen that it gets confusing.

Sony might be bland and more of the same but they keep it simple and that resonates more with the average buyer.

 

[Clear]

Considering they are the already pushing GamePass as hard as they can with near constant discounting and minimal competition, and still gaining no real ground on Sony or Nintendo, what would lead lead anyone to believe this is suddenly going to become a giant difference maker next gen when prices will inevitably have to rise and competition will be fiercer?

Is it the huge slate of new IP they've established this gen (sarcasm)? Or that the Xbox brand has never been stronger (untrue) and the its console competitors aren't closing out the gen with much momentum (untrue).

Its interesting to me too that Sony's low-key approach over the last 12 months has been seen as complacency, as opposed to a calculated strategy to ensure that they start the new gen as impactfully as possible despite the latter being their stated position.

 

[Dory16]

Would rather play a foot away from my 32 inch 4k gaming monitor than 10 feet away from my 60 inch 4k tv.

Computer Gaming Chair > Sofa

My PC rig is more than 2.5k$ as is. I really don't care where the majority of gamers are at in life, I'm a filthy hardcore degenerate gamer that there is no cost too great for the hobby I love. I work hard so I can play hard, and in saying that there is absolutely no reason for me to ever buy another MS Console.

What can I say? They're not making the series X for you. They already have (some of) your money.

 

[SleepDoctor]

I honestly hope next gen is better. When you hit rock bottom, the only way to go is up. And Microsoft definitely hit rock bottom with the Xone unveil/launch.

"Winning" the next generation is irrelevant to me. The winners are the gamers who get to enjoy all the games put out, rather than shilling over one brand. Those are the only losers missing out.

I want a competitive next gen..... and don't want to hear shit about 30fps or "checkerboard" next gen.

 

[Psykodad]

Said before say it again at the risk some idiots (i can name them) report me and want to ban me.
Microsoft screwed up the reveal with this 3 minute rushed presentation at the beginning of a 3 hour show in their very own theater.
They need to be a bit more modest and humble and just show till the reveal their games and services and leave the console and specs for e3.

They do all the right things and care about the gamers this time around.
They just have soo much going on with xcloud and gamepass and series x and keeping xbox x alive as a part of the new gen that it gets confusing.

Sony might be bland and more of the same but they keep it simple and that resonates more with the average buyer.

This is how I picture MS going into next-gen:

 

[CatLady]

Colour me stunned and disappointed. I did not put it there, obviously. I won't say more than that not to risk a ban. Having my thread title sullied is bad enough.

Wow I wasn't aware people could put tags on other peoples thread titles, I guess I haven't paid much attention to tags on threads before you brought this up.

I'm sorry so see this., I think you made a very reasonable post without unnecessary hyperbole, stated and tagged it as your opinion and laid out why it was your opinion.

I guess saying anything positive about Xbox is now considered clickbait.

 

[Ten_Fold]

They won't beat the ps5, unless Sony fucks up the price and launch. Microsoft could do a 6 things and more and they might come up slightly short. You have to think its people who like playstation because it's a Japanese game console. If you ask me I dont care for the ps5 or its exclusives. I'm going switch/xbox next gen.

 

[meirl]

Sony is doing fine with their own subscription service and streaming. The PSNow is profitable, and it allows downloads. Sony has paying customers, and everything is pulling their own weight. Not even PSVR is losing money. Sony has a healthy and sustainable buisness plan.

this can change really quickly. anyone remember nokia? lol or kodak? or videobuster?

after nextgen sony will be dead. why would anyone buy a console where they have to pay full price for all the games with microtransaction and shit? why not just pay just the price for a single game and get a full year of hundreds of games included...

in the future, decision will be very easy

 

[Jtibh]

This is how I picture MS going into next-gen:

Hahaha yeah this made my morning.

 

[Vawn]

You may be slightly missing my second point, which is that MS aims to win by winning even when you buy another console and never theirs.

Ah, so they're going the Charlie Sheen route. Continue to lose, but say you're winning.

I guess their fans have already been doing that for years. "Xbox Won".

 

[48086]

That was not a narrative, the first two years were dry IMO. I remember only KZ Shadowfall, Driveclub, Bloodborne EDIT: and we all know how those game turn out. People was calling it the indiestation. Santa monica cancelled game screw up the pace of first party games in the beginning, MM didn't launch a PS4 game yet.

On topic: I think Microsoft is just fine. Let's see the machines first and then how the games roll

Uhh maybe read my post again lol.