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[bud]

http://next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3258&Itemid=2

In a statement regarding TouchSense, the company made sure to note a couple of times that the technology is compatible with motion and tilt-sensing controllers. Of course, Sony has said that it wouldn't use rumble technology in the PS3 controller, because it would interfere with the tilt sensors. However, it's painfully obvious that the choice to forego force feedback has to do with the litigation between Sony and Immersion, not technical difficulties.

Viegas' comments come in the wake of Immersion's announcement today of its next generation of force feedback called TouchSense. The technology sounds like a significant step up from the current rumble technology, as it will be able to create crisper, more staccato vibrations. A few examples Immersion gave were a "springy sensation of hitting a tennis ball" or the "surge of powering up a light saber, followed by the transition to a subtle hum, then the jolt of clashing with their opponent's light saber." All-in-all, the technology will be more versatile and varied.

"We continue to want to try to resolve this, and we've had discussions with them in the past about how we could resolve this," Viegas said. "Up until now, those discussions haven't generated any progress, but we're still hopeful that we can bring this new technology into the market, and that we can resolve our differences with Sony."

believe

 

[Sho Nuff]

we can resolve our differences with Sony."

TOO LATE

SERECT OTHER COMPANY

 

[SolidSnakex]

""We continue to want to try to resolve this, and we've had discussions with them in the past about how we could resolve this," Viegas said. "Up until now, those discussions haven't generated any progress, but we're still hopeful that we can bring this new technology into the market, and that we can resolve our differences with Sony.""

You shouldn't have sued them.

 

[HomShaBom]

Serect+4D=Sony ftw

Spoiler

ftl

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

""We continue to want to try to resolve this, and we've had discussions with them in the past about how we could resolve this," Viegas said. "Up until now, those discussions haven't generated any progress, but we're still hopeful that we can bring this new technology into the market, and that we can resolve our differences with Sony.""

You shouldn't have sued them.

They sued damn near everybody

 

[Tk0n]

You shouldn't have sued them.

yeah, they should just keep quiet, pay their patent fee and ignore everyone using "their" technology

 

[MutFox]

MS owns like what % of Immersion?

 

[bud]

MS owns like what % of Immersion?

about 30% i think.

 

[oldboy1]

MS owns like what % of Immersion?

It's either 20% or 30%

*EDIT*

Damn beaten to it

 

[Tk0n]

MS owns like what % of Immersion?

around 20, i think.
ms bought the stock after immersion sued them too.

edit: im the slowest

 

[MutFox]

yeah, they should just keep quiet, pay their patent fee and ignore everyone using "their" technology

They should have sued Nintendo first.

 

[MutFox]

about 30% i think.

Hmmm... Why doesn't SONY try and buy some %??

 

[Elios83]

You shouldn't have sued them.

Infact the plan was "sue and get a contract".
But things didn't go well for both Sony (they still have to pay a lot of money to Immersion and to avoid future legal issues they are forced to remove the rumble from the PS3 pad) and Immersion (they didn't obtain the contract they wanted with Sony).
Anyway I've the feeling that PS3 will get a second pad as happened with PSX.

 

[SnakeXs]

Hmmm... Why doesn't SONY try and buy some %??

Because they took the cases to court, and that tends to not make for comfortable business talks.

 

[sharukins]

Sony only has 4 months to get rumble or it will never come as standard

 

[Pikelet]

Sony only has 4 months to get rumble or it will never come as standard

I dont think it will really matter that much if this doesnt come standard for the early adopters. Rumble is not exactly hard to implement.

 

[Elios83]

Sony only has 4 months to get rumble or it will never come as standard

That is an irrelevant problem as demonstrated by PSX.
Rumble is just a plus,even when the console has the pad with rumble all games offer the possibility to turn it off which means that it isn't essential to play the game.There isn't a standard problem with rumble,it's not like hard disk.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Sony will not lose face... keep begging Immersion you know PS3 is your daddy

 

[Wollan]

See Sony paying Immersion 70 million instead of 90 and announcing the inclusion of next-gen rumble in late july.

 

[bud]

See Sony paying Immersion 70 million instead of 90 and announcing the inclusion of next-gen rumble in late july.

i hope to god you're right, because playing an mgs game without rumble just wouldn't be the same.

 

[Tk0n]

See Sony paying Immersion 70 million instead of 90 and announcing the inclusion of next-gen rumble in late july.

after the case ruling against sony and after ms buying alot of stock from immersion, i dont think that sony is in a good position to squeeze down the price

 

[Wollan]

after the case ruling against sony and after ms buying alot of stock from immersion, i dont think that sony is in a good position to squeeze down the price

I don't think you understand. If they manage to get Sony to implement rumble by dropping the amount of money they want from the court case, that would be much better business wise for Immersion.

 

[acidviper]

Does Wii use Immersion or is it Nintendo RumblePak technology TM?

 

[DarienA]

after the case ruling against sony and after ms buying alot of stock from immersion, i dont think that sony is in a good position to squeeze down the price

This doesn't seem to be a question of Sony squeezing down the price, this seems to be a question of Immersion saying look if Sony doesn't using our technology in their future products our future products our going to be hugely affected so we're going to have to cut a deal with them.

Not only that but I don't really see anything in that article that indicates that both parties are still talking I only see that Immersion still really wants Sony to use their rumble tech because if they dont it's gonna put a huge hole in Immersions future profits.

Does Wii use Immersion or is it Nintendo RumblePak technology TM?

Nintendo doesn't use Immersion's tech from what I've seen. They never have.

 

[LOcKY]

anyone remember what they said about RUMBLE in their E3 conference? :lol

 

[SnakeXs]

Does Wii use Immersion or is it Nintendo RumblePak technology TM?

Since neither the GC nor the Wii uses a "1 motor per handle" type of rumble system, they're not under Immersion's patent, thus Nintendo's free to do as they please.

Or so I believe.

 

[Wollan]

anyone remember what they said about RUMBLE in their E3 conference? :lol

Absolutely nothing.

 

[LOcKY]

something on the lines of rumble being last generation or something like

 

[Cheerilee]

They should have sued Nintendo first.

Nintendo uses a different technology, patented by Nintendo.

Edit: Too late.

Since neither the GC nor the Wii uses a "1 motor per handle" type of rumble system, they're not under Immersion's patent, thus Nintendo's free to do as they please.

Supposedly Immersion's the one getting under Nintendo's patent.

 

[Wollan]

something on the lines of rumble being last generation or something like

Oh, I thought you meant the actual press conference(on stage).

 

[The Innocent X]

More sony legal fun. Sounds like they took a kicking in this one too

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06/20/ps2_not_a_pc/

 

[Viewtiful Darkness]

More sony legal fun. Sounds like they took a kicking in this one too

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06/20/ps2_not_a_pc/

No wonder Sony is trying to make the PS3 a PC

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I see a vibrating PS3 tilt controller available in 2007. Yours for only $59.99. Why so much? Because it has rumble and tilt! What an innovation it will be! Macrotransactions for the win?

 

[kaching]

"We continue to want to try to resolve this, and we've had discussions with them in the past about how we could resolve this,"

So, where's the "continue to talk" part?

Since neither the GC nor the Wii uses a "1 motor per handle" type of rumble system, they're not under Immersion's patent, thus Nintendo's free to do as they please.

But this new rumble tech apparently is one motor only, akin to Nintendo's tech.

 

[SnakeXs]

So, where's the "continue to talk" part?

But this new rumble tech apparently is one motor only, akin to Nintendo's tech.

Nintendo's is still just a single buzz, though. Immersion can't create a new patent for all rumbling technologies, and retroactively take what Nintendo has. Their new rumble creates depth of use, and function, from 1 motor. THAT technology is what they're selling now, not any simple rumble with 1 motor.

And, from the time the lawsuits ended Immersion's said they'd be willing to talk with Sony.

 

[Ceb]

I see a vibrating PS3 tilt controller available in 2007. Yours for only $59.99. Why so much? Because it has rumble and tilt! What an innovation it will be! Macrotransactions for the win?

I'd pay $10 extra for TouchSense rumble and gyro functions. Wouldn't you?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

It sounds to me like Immersion did not expect Sony to be unwilling to settle the suit and now they are starting to weaken a little in their position. They are worried about all the lost revenue from PS3's being sold without rumble, revenue they were banking on. I think it is safe to say that we will see new versions of X360 controllers, PS3 controllers, and likely Wii controllers in the future using this new technology.

I'd pay $10 extra for TouchSense rumble and gyro functions. Wouldn't you?

Yes, because I can't control myself.

 

[DarienA]

And, from the time the lawsuits ended Immersion's said they'd be willing to talk with Sony.

Yeah but as kaching and I have already mentioned that doesn't jive with this thread title... this thread title say Sony and Immersion are already talking... there's nothing in that article that says that... the only thing in that article is that Immersion is WILLING to talk with Sony more about it because they know if they don't they've admitted that their future profits are going to take a big hit.

 

[bud]

so i misread, i'm sorry.

please don't kill me.

 

[kaching]

Nintendo's is still just a single buzz, though.

Assuming they've done nothing to update their tech or their patents...Immersion's responses in reference to how their tech overlaps with pre-existing Nintendo tech have always been a little fishy. Something along the lines of, "we've never investigated their tech" though they do reference Nintendo patents in their patents.

And, from the time the lawsuits ended Immersion's said they'd be willing to talk with Sony.

Already covered by DarienA. "Willing to talk" and "Continue to talk" aren't the same. Sounds like Immersion is the only one talking at the moment and mostly to the press. Denog's and DarienA's theory as to why makes sense. Sony isn't giving them the time of day but Immersion wants that cash flow, so they're trying to make the situation as uncomfortable/embarrassing as possible for Sony.

 

[Tellaerin]

It's pretty obvious that the higher-ups at Immersion never imagined Sony would actually go through with eliminating the rumble hardware from future controllers. Unfortunately for them, I don't see Sony capitulating on this anytime soon, for the simple reason that they'd be putting money in MS' pocket with every controller sold. Would Immersion have been as eager to accept MS' buy-in offer if they knew it would cost them Sony's future business, I wonder?

 

[Zaptruder]

The only way Sony would do business now is if they cut Sony some slack on the lawsuit and give them the option to buy into Immersion.

Pretty much a no win for both companies.

But MS wins; and they're probably the guys behind pushing for such harsh terms against Sony.

 

[Ponn]

It's pretty obvious that the higher-ups at Immersion never imagined Sony would actually go through with eliminating the rumble hardware from future controllers. Unfortunately for them, I don't see Sony capitulating on this anytime soon, for the simple reason that they'd be putting money in MS' pocket with every controller sold. Would Immersion have been as eager to accept MS' buy-in offer if they knew it would cost them Sony's future business, I wonder?

BINGO!

You don't see MS jumping on the BRD bandwagon now do you?

 

[DarienA]

The only way Sony would do business now is if they cut Sony some slack on the lawsuit and give them the option to buy into Immersion.

Pretty much a no win for both companies.

But MS wins; and they're probably the guys behind pushing for such harsh terms against Sony.

No probably about it, if you recall the terms of MS deal with Immersion(the reason MS settled instead of having Immersion sue them) which gave them partial ownership are that they get a percentage of the settlement from Sony.

So as it stands there's really no way Sony is going to deal with Immersion in their current state.

 

[User 406]

As I am currently playing Naval Ops: Warship Gunner and savoring the pounding of my meaty salvos via the rumble, I'm disappointed that the PSX3 controller won't have it. However, I can't really blame Sony for not wanting to knuckle under to a patent farm turned MS puppet. Hopefully they're working on some in-house rumble feedback solution that will make it into the controller at some point.

 

[Wollan]

Unfortunately for them, I don't see Sony capitulating on this anytime soon, for the simple reason that they'd be putting money in MS' pocket with every controller sold.

If Sony decided to start paying a patent fee for something they want I don't think that the owner company being Microsoft(or 30% Microsoft in this case) would mean anything.
What, it would elovate Microsoft from being divinly rich to divinly rich + 0.000002%?

 

[SolidSnakex]

yeah, they should just keep quiet, pay their patent fee and ignore everyone using "their" technology

They had every right to sue Sony. All i'm saying is that they should've thought twice about how they were going about it. As of now Sony's pretty much said all they had to say on the rumble issue, while we've seen 2 comments from Immersion talking about how much they want Sony to use it. So they need Sony more than Sony needs them.

 

[DarienA]

If Sony decided to start paying a patent fee for something they want I don't think that the owner company being Microsoft(or 30% Microsoft in this case) would mean anything.
What, it would elovate Microsoft from being divinly rich to divinly rich + 0.000002%?

You think wrong... and that's not really the point. I know we sometimes incorrectly attribute human faces to corporations but no company that directly competes with another company wants to do something that contributes to the success to another company, in any form.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

i hope to god you're right, because playing an mgs game without rumble just wouldn't be the same.

I agree. A lot of games simply won't be the same. We shouldn't be regressing, but instead progressing.

Bought Table Tennis for the 360, and the rumble works very well as feedback to the player. Games need rumble IMO.

You think wrong... and that's not really the point. I know we sometimes incorrectly attribute human faces to corporations but no company that directly competes with another company wants to do something that contributes to the success to another company, in any form.

So what about when MS invested in Apple?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I agree. A lot of games simply won't be the same. We shouldn't be regressing, but instead progressing.

Bought Table Tennis for the 360, and the rumble works very well as feedback to the player. Games need rumble IMO.



So what about when MS invested in Apple?

We need to play some Table Tennis or something? It has been too long.

Rumble is a must for any controller. As soon as people start complaining, Sony will fix it, if not sooner. I doubt it will be before launch though.