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[Dr_Cogent]

We need to play some Table Tennis or something? It has been too long.

Rumble is a must for any controller. As soon as people start complaining, Sony will fix it, if not sooner. I doubt it will be before launch though.

Email sent your way.

I sure hope Sony is listening to the people complaining about no rumble.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Email sent your way.

I sure hope Sony is listening to the people complaining about no rumble.

People might want to start sending complaints to Immersion instead of Sony. Like people said, without Sony being cut some kind of deal there probably isn't going to be any movement on this issue.

 

[Ponn]

So what about when MS invested in Apple?

And now you have MS software all over Mac stuff.

 

[kaching]

I agree. A lot of games simply won't be the same. We shouldn't be regressing, but instead progressing.

Sometimes you need to take one step back to take two steps forward. I wonder whether Immersion would have announced this newer rumble tech that has a broader range of feedback response now if it weren't for the impasse with Sony. There was a time when Immersion seemed like a company that truly wanted to grow and generate profit through continuing innovation rather than simply chasing after license fees as they seemed to have gotten sidetracked into doing for the past few years.

 

[Vieo]

I know how to slove Sony's problem without having to pay Immersion. It's so simple. Pay a third-party console peripheral maker to create a kit that can convert any old PS2 controller into a PS3 controller.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

People might want to start sending complaints to Immersion instead of Sony. Like people said, without Sony being cut some kind of deal there probably isn't going to be any movement on this issue.

Pehaps if Sony pays the 92 million they owe Immersion from the lawsiut, a deal will be sent.

 

[travisbickle]

I agree. A lot of games simply won't be the same. We shouldn't be regressing, but instead progressing.

Bought Table Tennis for the 360, and the rumble works very well as feedback to the player. Games need rumble IMO.

I was playing the Table Tennis game the other day, do you know what it needed...........pressure sensitive face buttons, we should be progressing not regressing.

Pehaps if Sony pays the 92 million they owe Immersion from the lawsiut, a deal will be sent.

Immersion should stop begging for continued revenue from Sony.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Pehaps if Sony pays the 92 million they owe Immersion from the lawsiut, a deal will be sent.

Then there probably won't be rumble. The reality is that Sony's not the one that's going to be losing money if rumble isn't in, Immersion is. And that's why you see these itnerviews where they're talking about how they want to get a deal done with Sony.

 

[Goreomedy]

Sony followed Keanu's advice:

"Shoot the hostage."

Rumble-tech will not be in the PS3 controller. Not as long as Immersion stands to make any money out of it. This and the reaction of Immersion at E3 when the bomb was dropped shows how desperate they are. Comedy gold.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

People might want to start sending complaints to Immersion instead of Sony. Like people said, without Sony being cut some kind of deal there probably isn't going to be any movement on this issue.

Don't care. That's their problem to work out, not mine. I'm not going to complain to Immersion, it's Sony's product I am buying in the end.

And now you have MS software all over Mac stuff.

Yeah? So? What's wrong with that?

I was playing the Table Tennis game the other day, do you know what it needed...........pressure sensitive face buttons, we should be progressing not regressing.

Pressure sensitive buttons are useless IMO. I'm glad MS dropped them. I hated that "feature".

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Then there probably won't be rumble. The reality is that Sony's not the one that's going to be losing money if rumble isn't in, Immersion is. And that's why you see these itnerviews where they're talking about how they want to get a deal done with Sony.

We'll see. But I think people are underestimating the value of rumble. As I said in another thread, a certain number of people will return their launch PS3's because they will think their controller is broken and/or the rumble is broken. Plus, I can't imagine playing Motorstorm or Resistance without rumble.

 

[SolidSnakex]

We'll see. But I think people are underestimating the value of rumble. As I said in another thread, a certain number of people will return their launch PS3's because they will think their controller is broken and/or the rumble is broken.

That's all well and good, but how many of them will tell them that they want their money back when they're told there's no rumble? I'll go with none. It's a nice feature and yes some like but they aren't going to let it drive their system purchase to the point that they won't even want the system anymore. And that's why Immersion is making all these comments. They know the system is still going to sell even without rumble and they want part of it. You don't see Sony's making any comments about how much they want the rumble feature, its all about Immersion making htem.

 

[Wulfer]

Then there probably won't be rumble. The reality is that Sony's not the one that's going to be losing money if rumble isn't, Immersion is. And that's why you see these itnerviews where they're talking about how they want to get a deal done with Sony.

I'm sure as long as M$ keeps Immersion happy they won't worry about Sony and Sony's the one that needs to come to the table not Immersion. Why you ask because if Immersion starts having financial issues M$ will just buy them. How does that benefit Sony? So, like I said Sony's the one that will have to come to the table not Immersion....
Or did you guys forget M$ likes to buy companies when it's in their favor? Kiss rumble feature goodbye forever on a Sony console if this happens. M$ and Nintendo gain another advantage on Sony in the long run. Looks to me Sony's the one backed in the corner not Immersion.

 

[SnakeXs]

SSx, circa 1998: Sony's in the future with this Dual Shock thing. Nintendo's got 1, this has 2. It's the future. Games without it are meaningless.

SSx, today: Nobody cares. Who's gonna return it because it lacks rumble, I'll say none.



:lol

 

[kaching]

Pehaps if Sony pays the 92 million they owe Immersion from the lawsiut, a deal will be sent.

Good point...getting Sony to pay that much will get them in the mood to pay even more!!!

 

[SolidSnakex]

Looks to me Sony's the one backed in the corner not Immersion.

They're so backed into the corner that they're preactically begging Immersion for the rumble feature. Oh wait, that's Immersion doing that.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

That's all well and good, but how many of them will tell them that they want their money back when they're told there's no rumble? I'll go with none. It's a nice feature and yes some like but they aren't going to let it drive their system purchase to the point that they won't even want the system anymore. And that's why Immersion is making all these comments. They know the system is still going to sell even without rumble and they want part of it. You don't see Sony's making any comments about how much they want the rumble feature, its all about Immersion making htem.

My point is not that they will return it, but they will be disappointed when they try and return it and discover the feature is missing. I just think rumble in a game like Assassin's Creed would be awesome, especially if you could feel the heartbeat of the person you have in your grasp right before you end it.

 

[SnakeXs]

They're so backed into the corner that they're preactically begging Immersion for the rumble feature. Oh wait, that's Immersion doing that.

Immersion, a technology company, trying to *gasp* SELL THEIR PRODUCT... to, to companies that use this sort of thing historically?

Get outta town.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Good point...getting Sony to pay that much will get them in the mood to pay even more!!!

Well, a judge in a court of law ruled they owe it. So, they might as well take their medicine and move on. The revenue they have already made off of Immersion's patents is what they owe. This is a debt.

 

[SolidSnakex]

My point is not that they will return it, but they will be disappointed when they try and return it and discover the feature is missing.

But that returns to my point. They still keep the console, meaning that its Immersion who's missing out on those royalties for not getting the deal done. This situation benefits Immersion more than it benefits Sony from a financial standpoint.

 

[Lord Error]

Pressure sensitive buttons are useless IMO. I'm glad MS dropped them. I hated that "feature".

Pressure sensitive buttons are more useful gameplay feature than rumble is. Still, rumble is a very neat feature which I really liked in few games. Maybe there will be an extra controller sold eventually that will have this new rumble features, but for more money than the regular one that comes with PS3. It's questionable how many games would support something like that though. I also have a feeling Sony wants to make DS3 as light as possible to make it easier to move your hands around when you are holding it, for motion sensing feature.

My point is not that they will return it, but they will be disappointed when they try and return it and discover the feature is missing.

The motion sensing is a lot more interesting feature that will have people intrigued more than rumble ever could. Still sucks that rumble is missing.

 

[Wulfer]

They're so backed into the corner that they're preactically begging Immersion for the rumble feature. Oh wait, that's Immersion doing that.

Yea, and M$ is waiting with checkbook in hand ready for the purchase. When that happens we'll see who pissed cause they don't have rumble in the controllers come on man don't be stupid. Sony needs Immersion to stay neutral in this game you know that and Sony out buying M$ on Immersion is a pipe dream....

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Pressure sensitive buttons are more useful gameplay feature than rumble is. Still, rumble is a very neat feature which I really liked in few games. Maybe there will be an extra controller sold eventually that will have this new rumble features, but for more money than the regular one that comes with PS3. It's questionable how many games would support something like that though. I also have a feeling Sony wants to make DS3 as light as possible to make it easier to move your hands around when you are holding it, for motion sensing feature.

Well, we will just have to disagree here. Pressure sensitive buttons caused me more problems than helped.

Analog triggers are much better suited for the task.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

But that returns to my point. They still keep the console, meaning that its Immersion who's missing out on those royalties for not getting the deal done. This situation benefits Immersion more than it benefits Sony from a financial standpoint.

The lack of rumble definitely does not benefit the gamer and for that Sony will inevitably take the PR hit. Immersion is owed the money (unless Sony wins an appeal) and Sony is behaving like deadbeats who refuse to pay their rental fees. Plain and simple, Sony owes Immersion money for services already rendered, and Immersion is willing to help Sony solve the 'problem' of having vibration and tilt in the same controller.

 

[travisbickle]

I'm sure as long as M$ keeps Immersion happy they won't worry about Sony and Sony's the one that needs to come to the table not Immersion. Why you ask because if Immersion starts having financial issues M$ will just buy them. How does that benefit Sony? So, like I said Sony's the one that will have to come to the table not Immersion....
Or did you guys forget M$ likes to buy companies when it's in their favor? Kiss rumble feature goodbye forever on a Sony console if this happens. M$ and Nintendo gain another advantage on Sony in the long run. Looks to me Sony's the one backed in the corner not Immersion.

Would Immersion prefer to see their technology implemented into a product whose previous 2 itterations sold over 100 million each, how many joypads does that add up to? or would they prefer to be bought out by Microsoft. I'd say Immersion are definately in the worse position, they are not begging yet, but I'm sure if they'd have known Sony would pull the rumble out and not even consult them about how to put it into the new controller, it's a bit grinding, they'd would definately prefer continued revenue and even the acclaim of working with Sony on their new controller then to have nothing.

 

[Lord Error]

Well, a judge in a court of law ruled they owe it. So, they might as well take their medicine and move on. The revenue they have already made off of Immersion's patents is what they owe. This is a debt.

In this case, "moving on" means continuing to pay quite a lot for something they probably don't feel they should be paying for. That whole lawsuit was pretty crappy to begin with, and highlighted yet again how broken the patent laws are. It must have left a bad taste in Sony's mouth and I can imagine they want nothing to do with Immersion ever again.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The lack of rumble definitely does not benefit the gamer and for that Sony will inevitably take the PR hit.

It would be but I don't think it'd be anything worth talking about. But its a simple situation I think

PS3 - rumble = still sells but Immersion gets no royalties
PS3 + rumble = still sells but Immersion gets royalties

It just benefits them alot more to get this deal done than it does Sony. If they want it they're going to be the ones bending not Sony.

 

[Ponn]

Yeah? So? What's wrong with that?

Nothing. For MS. MS is primarily a software company, especially in the PC arena. And they got their software on to a platform they were initially blocked out of.

 

[SnakeXs]

It would be but I don't think it'd be anything worth talking about. But its a simple situation I think

PS3 - rumble = still sells but Immersion gets no royalties
PS3 + rumble = still sells but Immersion gets royalties

It just benefits them alot more to get this deal done than it does Sony. If they want it they're going to be the ones bending not Sony.

Note the missing equation, what's best for games and gamers.

God forbid.

 

[bud]

Note the missing equation, what's best for games and gamers.

God forbid.

i was just about to say this.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

In this case, "moving on" means continuing to pay quite a lot for something they probably don't feel they should be paying for. That whole lawsuit was pretty crappy to begin with, and highlighted yet again how broken the patent laws are. It must have left a bad taste in Sony's mouth and I can imagine they want nothing to do with Immersion ever again.

I would wager that a vast majority of gamers out there would rather have rumble than tilt. Sony introduced the masses to rumble and now they are trying to justify taking it away. I remember playing Gran Turismo and NHL Hockey with a Dual Shock and thinking it kicked the holy hell out of Nintendo's rumble pack. As time has gone by, gamers have become more connected to games through rumble features. Sony may have bad taste in their mouths, but their customers are also tasting that bitter taste, and those same customers see a company that is willing to spend billions on Bluray holding back 92 million on technology that they did not have the rights to in the first place. Patent law may be broken, but it is the law.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Well, we will just have to disagree here. Pressure sensitive buttons caused me more problems than helped.

Analog triggers are much better suited for the task.

Agreed. Big time.

 

[travisbickle]

Note the missing equation, what's best for games and gamers.

Bluray?

 

[gofreak]

I would wager that a vast majority of gamers out there would rather have rumble than tilt.

Perhaps if people trend toward the familiar. But for most people motion sensitivity is not familiar yet. But when it is, I don't know if I'd bet similarly. In weighing up the plusses and minuses to the DS, for me motion sensitivity is a bigger plus than rumble's minus.

Of course, I'd prefer to have both. I wish Sony would get over whatever pride/principles/politics exist right now to prevent them working with Immersion, and just do it. Particularly now they have that new tech - I wasn't so pushed before, but it ought to add extra attraction. Maybe if enough people emailed Sony - anyone know Howard Stringer's address?

 

[Ponn]

I would wager that a vast majority of gamers out there would rather have rumble than tilt.

Of course. Now how many of those gamers have actually used the PS3 controller with tilt function in games compared to those have used DS2's?

As time has gone by, gamers have become more connected to games through rumble features.

Hmm..funny you say that but didn't give the tilt function the same leeway above.

Sony may have bad taste in their mouths, but their customers are also tasting that bitter taste, and those same customers see a company that is willing to spend billions on Bluray holding back 92 million on technology that they did not have the rights to in the first place. Patent law may not be broken, but it is the law.

At this juncture your stating hyperbole. We have to wait and see if the regular gamers actually give a shit compared to the vocal on message boards. Personally I could give a shit less about rumble. And you are welcome to investigate my post history, i've never been a proponent of it. I always turn it off when able since its more a distraction then "immersion". It's just the controller jiggling in my hand. At the moment I also think tilt control is a gimmick for the PS3 as well and just a knee jerk reaction the Wii but we will have to see how that plays out before I lay down final judgement. Right now it looks gimmicky for Warhawk and wouldn't use it but we will have to see if any developers actually make good uses of it.

 

[SolidSnakex]

i was just about to say this.

I thought I made it clear earlier that i'm speaking from a financial standpoint of both companies. It's more in Immersions interest to get this worked out. Simple as that.

 

[DarienA]

So what about when MS invested in Apple?

I'll answer that. Sorry I had to take my daughter to her drs appt, had to get 2 shots.. she wasn't happy.

MS didn't invested in Apple for altrustic reasons. MS invested in Apple to keep the gov't off their ass. MS has always wanted to keep Apple around because folks have been concerned about the WINTEL monopoly for years. With Apple around MS could always say hey look here's a competitor that's still around. Anti-trust wha?

I'm sure as long as M$ keeps Immersion happy they won't worry about Sony and Sony's the one that needs to come to the table not Immersion. Why you ask because if Immersion starts having financial issues M$ will just buy them. How does that benefit Sony? So, like I said Sony's the one that will have to come to the table not Immersion....
Or did you guys forget M$ likes to buy companies when it's in their favor? Kiss rumble feature goodbye forever on a Sony console if this happens. M$ and Nintendo gain another advantage on Sony in the long run. Looks to me Sony's the one backed in the corner not Immersion.

If Sony is the one backed in the corner why do we keep hearing from Immersion about wanting to work out a deal with Sony to get Rumble back in future PS controllers? If MS is reading to purchase them why is Immersion lamenting about future profits? Why doesn't MS just purchase them now? Immersion doesn't hold a patent on ALL Rumble BTW, just the one that Sony was using.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Perhaps if people trend toward the familiar. But for most people motion sensitivity is not familiar yet. But when it is, I don't know if I'd bet similarly. In weighing up the plusses and minuses to the DS, for me motion sensitivity is a bigger plus than rumble's minus.

While I agree it is too early to say how much consumers will react to motion sensitivity, I think people will react negatively to a lack of rumble. Go watch an action packed movie today without bass or play some of your favorite games without rumble. Like bass in an action flick, rumble conects you viscerally to the action on the screen.

 

[gofreak]

While I agree it is too early to say how much consumers will react to motion sensitivity, I think people will react negatively to a lack of rumble. Go watch an action packed movie today without bass or play some of your favorite games without rumble. Like bass in an action flick, rumble conects you viscerally to the action on the screen.

I've played nearly all my GC games on a wavebird, and didn't miss it. It was an easy sacrifice to make for the convenience, and given my attraction to interface experimentation, it's much easier still for me to see a bigger upside to motion detection than rumble. I know others may feel differently, but that's me. The only games I really think I would have missed it in would be MGS games.

Speaking of bass, though, I was watching the new (HD) MGS4 trailer on my HT setup, and I didn't need any rumble to feel that Gekkous rampaging down the street

But still, I'd like to have both! There's still enough time, get over yourselves Sony & Immersion!

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Of course. Now how many of those gamers have actually used the PS3 controller with tilt function in games compared to those have used DS2's?


Hmm..funny you say that but didn't give the tilt function the same leeway above.

Apples and oranges. Tilt will not replace rumble. For you, rumble is a novelty. For others, it is an expected part of games. Kojima himself said he was "saddened" by the lack of rumble. He may make motion sensitivity fun, but rumble would make it better. Tilt is cool. Rumble and tilt is better.

 

[Brimstone]

Sony should get this Immersion "Touchsense" technology into the PS3 controllers. Rumble greatly enhances many games.


PS3

True Next Gen CPU = CELL
True Next Gen Optical Format = Blu-Ray
True Next Gen Rumble = Touchsense

 

[cheekymunky]

**** rumble...and Immersion. Where is my keyboard and mouse support for PS3?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Sony should get this Immersion "Touchsense" technology into the PS3 controllers. Rumble greatly enhances many games.


PS3

True Next Gen CPU = CELL
True Next Gen Optical Format = Blu-Ray Wins
True Next Gen Rumble = Touchsense

$599.99. Sold.

 

[Goreomedy]

Rumble greatly enhances many games.

How, exactly? Because after all the comments about MGS being the only series to put it to "interesting" use, I think I have to agree. Controller handles farting in my palms in sync to explosions on screen is a bit of a joke now when you have 5.1 surround sound and a powerful subwoofer shaking the whole damn room.

But don't mind me. I'm just a cheapass who turns off rumble so I don't have to buy replacement batteries or expensive recharge packs.

 

[Nerevar]

And now you have MS software all over Mac stuff.

good lord, MS software was on Mac before it was ever on a PC-based platform (i.e. the whole Office suite of applications). Microsoft had to get permission from Apple (directly from Jobs himself, IIRC) to put their office suite on Windows 3.1 at the time. One of the classic "big bludners" that Apple made in the early 90s.


This whole thing is pretty stupid. Sony obviously didn't evaluate their position very well going into the lawsuit, or they knew they'd have no chance at winning. If they had done it then they could've brokered their own settlement deal that would've prevented MS from getting money from them. Now they're sitting there making up excuses that anyone with half a brain knows is bullshit so they don't have to put rumble in, just as developers are starting to figure out how to really use it. For a corporation the whole thing is very childish.

 

[kaching]

Well, a judge in a court of law ruled they owe it. So, they might as well take their medicine and move on. The revenue they have already made off of Immersion's patents is what they owe. This is a debt.

...what's that got to do with them paying *MORE* than what the court ruled they owe?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

But don't mind me. I'm just a cheapass who turns off rumble so I don't have to buy replacement batteries or expensive recharge packs.

So, THAT is why you sometimes take forever to take your turn in Uno. :lol

Expensive recharge pack? Versus buying batteries every month? You are spending more for batteries in the long run methinks.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

...what's that got to do with them paying *MORE* than what the court ruled they owe?

So you are saying that Sony should pay the $92 million and then get the free rights to Immersion's rumble tech for PS3? What exactly do you mean by 'more'?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Also, just because Nintendo invested in a firm specialized in motion sensing hardware and applications and was able to make rumble work with their motion sensing apparatus does not mean the technology Sony came up with so far works perfectly with rumble motors.

Still, I fail to see how they could not block via software the rumble when games that use motion sensing features are inserted.

Still, if many developers insert motion sensing features then it would make it so that you could forget having rumble in the first place...

 

[kaching]

So you are saying that Sony should pay the $92 million and then get the free rights to Immersion's rumble tech for PS3? What exactly do you mean by 'more'?

No, I'm saying I doubt that Sony is in any mood to work with Immersion, regardless of what deal they may make after the settlement.