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[Argyle]

I never said I was an authority on the subject. I just felt like tossing together one complete version since people were arguing over bits and pieces.


Everybody knows that suing Sony is a costly idea that should only be used as a last resort. Immersion apparently had to spend around $30 million of Microsoft's money on legal fees in their attempt to get the $300 million they thought they were owed, and the court brought it down to $90 million. MS expects to get $15-30 million back if Immersion ever gets paid (and some of you see this as a conspiricy, making Immersion the one unwilling to come down). Which means that the date of the lawsuit is obviously not when things started happening. And Immersion has said that they were in unproductive talks with Sony for years.


Unless they knew that Immersion was a poor little nobody who had no chance of winning against them in court.


How much money do you think Immersion had? How much do you think it takes to sue Sony and win (which may not have been their intention with their original blanket lawsuit)?


So which was it?

I wrote the first part before I had read more of Immersion's quarterly filings, the additional information was added via edits. I think it's bullshit to completely edit out an older version of a post, and I didn't want to clutter this thread with a reply to my own post.

You can see that they actually sue MS and Sony at the same time. Feel free to follow the link I provided if you do not believe me. Not bad for a "poor little nobody" - sue two big companies at once, on the same day! (And hell, MS is BIGGER than Sony...)

They actually sued both companies over patent 5,889,672 and patent 6,275,213. The first one appears to be related to their force feedback mouse, as it talks about feedback using a pointing device - what's interesting is that six months later, they withdrew their claims on the 672 patent, probably because it (IMHO - I am not a patent lawyer) has nothing to do with the force feedback in either Sony or MS's controller (it looked like it was related to the force feedback mouse...anyone else ever use one of those things? 15 minutes after I got it, the force feedback was disabled forever...)...and replaced it with a claim against patent 6,424,333.

Source: http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/fetchFilingFrameset.aspx?FilingID=2048712&Type=HTML

And you're wrong about what MS expects to get back.

If Immersion WINS the suit MS gets NOTHING (well, aside from the fact that Immersion stock might get a nice boost if they still are still holding it when the dust settles).

If Immersion SETTLES then MS gets their money back.

If Immersion LOSES then MS gets NOTHING.

Check this out:

On July 28, 2003, the Company announced that it had settled its legal differences with Microsoft and Immersion and Microsoft agreed to dismiss all claims and counterclaims relating to this matter as well as assume financial responsibility for their respective legal costs with respect to the lawsuit between Immersion and Microsoft. The Company continues to pursue its claims of infringement against Sony Computer Entertainment. In the event the Company settles its lawsuit with Sony Computer Entertainment, the Company will have certain obligations to pay certain sums to Microsoft. See Note 10 for further details. If Sony Computer Entertainment were successful in its counterclaims and the Company’s patents were deemed invalid and unenforceable, the assets relating to the patents that were deemed invalid would be impaired. For Sony Computer Entertainment to be awarded damages for attorneys’ fees the court would have to rule that the Company acted with willful disregard and did not perform a proper investigation. The Company currently believes it is remote that a loss may be or has been incurred related to the counterclaims of Sony Computer Entertainment.

Here is Note 10 mentioned above:

On July 28, 2003 the Company issued a press release announcing it had entered into agreements with Microsoft regarding certain license rights under the Company’s patents, the settlement of the Company’s lawsuit against Microsoft and certain investments by Microsoft in the Company’s Series A Redeemable Convertible Preferred Stock and 7% Senior Redeemable Convertible Debentures.

Pursuant to the license agreement, the Company granted Microsoft a world-wide royalty-free, irrevocable license in exchange for $20 million. Under the terms of the Series A Redeemable Convertible Preferred Stock purchase agreement, Microsoft agreed to purchase 2,185,792 shares of Preferred Stock for $2.745, an aggregate purchase price of $6 million. Preferred Stock accrues cumulative dividends at a rate of 7% per year, payable in cash or additional shares of Preferred Stock. Under the terms of the Senior Redeemable Convertible Debentures agreement, Microsoft may purchase up to $9 million debentures accruing interest at 7% per year. No debentures have been purchased to date. The Company is currently evaluating the impact of these agreements on its results of operations and financial condition. Certain provisions of these agreements may preclude revenue recognition in the near term. In the event the Company settles its lawsuit with Sony Computer Entertainment, the Company will have certain repayment obligations including paying Microsoft up to 2.5 times the original purchase price of the Series A Redeemable Convertible Preferred Stock and up to 125% of the amount of any debentures drawn down by the Company as of the settlement date.

And some more details on their agreement with MS:

BECAUSE WE HAVE A FIXED PAYMENT LICENSE WITH MICROSOFT, OUR ROYALTY REVENUE FROM LICENSING IN THE GAMING MARKET AND OTHER CONSUMER MARKETS MIGHT DECLINE IF MICROSOFT INCREASES ITS VOLUME OF SALES OF TOUCH-ENABLED GAMING PRODUCTS AND CONSUMER PRODUCTS AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR OTHER LICENSEES.

Under the terms of our present agreement with Microsoft, Microsoft receives a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable license to Immersion’s world-wide portfolio of patents. This license permits Microsoft to make, use and sell hardware, software and services (excluding certain products (“Excluded Products”)) covered by Immersion’s patents. Immersion also granted to Microsoft a limited right, under Immersion’s patents relating to touch technology, to sublicense certain rights (excluding rights to Excluded Products and peripheral devices) to third party customers of Microsoft’s or Microsoft’s subsidiary’s operating systems (other than Sony Corporation, Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc., Sony Computer Entertainment of America, Inc., and their subsidiaries (the “Sony Entities”)). In exchange, for these rights and the rights included in a separate Sublicense Agreement, Microsoft paid Immersion a one-time payment of $20 million. We will not receive any further revenues or royalties from Microsoft under our current agreement with Microsoft. Microsoft has a significant share of the market for touch-enabled gaming computer peripherals and is pursuing other consumer markets such as cell phones and PDAs. Microsoft has significantly greater financial, sales and marketing resources, as well as greater name recognition and a larger customer base, than our other licensees. In the event that Microsoft increases its share of these markets, our royalty revenue from other licensees in these market segments might decline.

Full text: http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/fetchFilingFrameset.aspx?FilingID=2444049&Type=HTML

Now, if you would like to back up YOUR claims, feel free to cite your sources...

What can I say, this is how business works sometimes. If you want to complain about the lack of rumble on the PS3 controller, MS is just as responsible (if not more so, as they removed settling out of court as a viable option for Sony...unless Sony wanted to pay the extra cash to get Immersion out of the poison pill contract) as any of the other parties - the brilliance is that you have to read between the lines to see it. Sue your competitor by proxy, and without any bad press - it's a smart move!

It does suck for us gamers tho

 

[gofreak]

Here's a new interview with Immersion's CEO:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153305.html

Obviously touches on PS3, which may or may not be of interest...

Well, we are anxious to work out our differences and resolve the dispute, so we are, you know, we're actively trying to fix those problems. They, I believe, on their own have said in a press release that they were going to remove vibration from the PS3 because of this conflict presumably with the motion sensing. But, assuming that we can resolve our differences, we would not only help them on this technical problem that they have, but we would also make available our next-generation gaming technology, and we would work hard to try to implement it in the PS3 as soon as possible.

One interesting bit of info in this interview that might be news to a lot of people is that MS no longer owns any shares in Immersion. They sold them some time ago, apparently.

 

[Y2Kev]

Here's a new interview with Immersion's CEO:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153305.html

Obviously touches on PS3, which may or may not be of interest...



One interesting bit of info in this interview that might be news to a lot of people is that MS no longer owns any shares in Immersion. They sold them some time ago, apparently.

Yeah.

I'm wondering if it is healthier for Immersion to pay back Microsoft the settlement just to settle with Sony. Not settling with Sony is going to take away a major, major revenue stream and MS is not paying royalties.

 

[HokieJoe]

i hope to god you're right, because playing an mgs game without rumble just wouldn't be the same.

After having reacquainted myself with Ninja Gaiden Black lately, I agree in the general sense. NGB would not be the same without rumble IMO.

 

[ibu]

The thing is the controller won't work with Rumble

http://www.veoh.com/videoDetails.html?v=e84439BWqaSwM7

see!!

I hope sony get the f*uckin fingers out pay the damn money and then get rumble as MGS4 needs rumble so does GT5/HD whatever y'all wanna call it.

Also that 'new' rumble tech they previewed seems to be a great improvement on the older rumble currently in the Pstwo/one and the xbox original/360 also, but then again this can be implemented into the 360 pads over time. I hope there is some compromise and immersion seem to be going for the middle field in this console war and guaranteed revenue from Sony sales.

Im sure Immersion have taken out a lawsuit against Ninty though due to the rumble features anyone else read/heard anything on this?

 

[SolidSnakex]

The thing is the controller won't work with Rumble

http://www.veoh.com/videoDetails.html?v=e84439BWqaSwM7

see!!

Yes its only been posted multiple times. I think its obvious why it isn't in the PS3 controller, but doesn't prove that there aren't some problems with getting it to work unless its using the4 exact same tech Sony is using with the PS3 controller.

 

[ibu]

Yes its only been posted multiple times. I think its obvious why it isn't in the PS3 controller, but doesn't prove that there aren't some problems with getting it to work unless its using the4 exact same tech Sony is using with the PS3 controller.

Na just sony are to proud to pay royalties come on you know so!

 

[Kangu]

This thread should be retitled "Immersion continue to talk about rumble and about Sony...by themselves...they're so lonely...they wish someone would talk back to them"

I hope no one is getting their hopes up just because Immersion keeps begging Sony to license their tech while simultaneously trying to drum up public support with statements like these. It's way too late and Sony is way to proud/arrogant for there to be any rumble in the DT3.

 

[Kittonwy]

Here's a new interview with Immersion's CEO:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153305.html

Obviously touches on PS3, which may or may not be of interest...



One interesting bit of info in this interview that might be news to a lot of people is that MS no longer owns any shares in Immersion. They sold them some time ago, apparently.

Is that right? But I think Immersion has gone too far to humiliate Sony that I'm not sure how they will be able to salvage the situation now that the bridge is burnt and Sony has ditched rumble.

 

[Kittonwy]

This thread should be retitled "Immersion continue to talk about rumble and about Sony...by themselves...they're so lonely...they wish someone would talk back to them"
I hope no one is getting their hopes up just because Immersion keeps begging Sony to license their tech while simultaneously trying to drum up public support with statements like these. It's way too late and Sony is way to proud/arrogant for there to be any rumble in the DT3.

LOL.

Immersion needs to shut the smurf up and stop burning its bridges with Sony if they want to do business with them.

 

[Lapsed]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

The Sonybots are hilarious trying to spin Immersion as a demonic company wanting money (what else would they want from Sony? Their love? haha). I don't know what is funnier: the fact that the PS3 is getting screwed with Sonybots trying to spin that Sony is "winning" by losing the rumble or that the Sonybots are lining up to defend Sony while Sony is screwing them over by refusing to put in rumble! :lol How are you going to play backwards compatibility without rumble? The most expensive console of the next generation loses a basic feature that the other two consoles have! How delicious.

This is classic! I need popcorn and a drink.

Attention Reporters

Ask a Sony representative this question (and would love to hear Sony fans answer it as well):

Why should somone pay the expensive PS3 price when Sony is too cheap to pay for rumble that even the Wii has?

 

[SolidSnakex]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

The Sonybots are hilarious trying to spin Immersion as a demonic company wanting money (what else would they want from Sony? Their love? haha). I don't know what is funnier: the fact that the PS3 is getting screwed with Sonybots trying to spin that Sony is "winning" by losing the rumble or that the Sonybots are lining up to defend Sony while Sony is screwing them over by refusing to put in rumble! :lol

I think its funnier that you don't seem to understand what people are saying at all.

 

[Lapsed]

I think its funnier that you don't seem to understand what people are saying at all.

:lol Keep it up. This is a delightful thread.

Want to take a stab at answering my question?

Why should someone pay the expensive price for the PS3 when Sony is too cheap to put in something as basic as rumble?

Most normal gamers probably don't know the PS3 has no rumble. Imagine their surprise on launch day! They will then ask that question to themselves. "I paid $600 and there is no rumble?" I wonder how many people will think their PS3 controllers are defective since it lacks rumble (especially since the Wii and Xbox 360 have it).

Immersion has offered Sony the opportunity for rumble. It is good for Immersion. It is good for Sony. It is good for the gamers.

Forget the company politics and financial interests for a second. It's pretty obvious that Immersion is trying to help out gamers by offering a solution to the PS3's woes but Sony is just too stubborn to not only accept it, but to provide any alternative. Sony doesn't have to accept Immersion, they could do their own rumble technology but they don't want to.

Sony just doesn't care about the gamer. No rumble PERIOD they say. And Sony seems more interested in Blu-Ray, the Cell, and GPS gadgets for the PSP than anything about gaming.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Imagine their surprise on launch day! They will then ask that question to themselves. "I paid $600 and there is no rumble?"

Yah i'm sure they're going to be saying that. This has gone from a feature no one really talked abotu to one that's suddenly become the backbone of modern gaming.

Sony just doesn't care about the gamer. No rumble PERIOD they say. And Sony seems more interested in Blu-Ray, the Cell, and GPS gadgets for the PSP than anything about gaming.

Tell me about it, because Blu Ray and CELL aren't going to benefit gamers one bit.

 

[cheekymunky]

It's pretty obvious that Immersion is trying to help out gamers by offering a solution to the PS3's woes

wow....Is Immersion connected with the Salvation Army? Will the provide me with a coat this Winter? :lol

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

Yah i'm sure they're going to be saying that. This has gone from a feature no one really talked abotu to one that's suddenly become the backbone of modern gaming.

It is. Every time I get shot in the face in a game and there is a slight shake in the controller, I have to take a step back and think "Holy Shit, this is just a game" because it feels like I got shot in the face, and it triggered a nerve spasm in my hand. This is also the reason I don't play games because I think "this computer doesn't shake at all, why the **** did I pay for a gaming PC that doesn't allow me to really PLAY this game."

 

[WalkMan]

Why should somone pay the expensive PS3 price when Sony is too cheap to pay for rumble that even the Wii has?

Why should someone pay the expensive X360 price when MS is too cheap to pay for full Backwards-Compatibility that even the Wii has?

 

[Amir0x]

Why should someone pay the expensive X360 price when MS is too cheap to pay for full Backwards-Compatibility that even the Wii has?

why should someone pay over 100 bucks for Wii when it is too cheap to provide the graphical technology that even 360 has?

alt: itt we play a game

alt2: now we all hop on the train of dumb logic with our friend Lapsed!

 

[M3wThr33]

Being that Immersion won't shut up about Sony I have a feeling they don't have many other licensees.
If Sony holds out long enough, next year they can reintroduce rumble without having to fork over too much.

 

[cheekymunky]

Why should someone pay the expensive X360 price when MS is too cheap to pay for full Backwards-Compatibility that even the Wii has?

Ouch!!

why should someone pay over 100 bucks when Wii is too cheap to provide the graphical technology that even 360 has?

Ouch Ouch!!

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Yah i'm sure they're going to be saying that. This has gone from a feature no one really talked abotu to one that's suddenly become the backbone of modern gaming.

No one ever talked about it until it went missing. It was taken for granted and thought to be a gimme with any new console that came out.

Seriously, who ever thought there would be no rumble in the controller when the PS3 was announced?

I never did, so it was a non issue. Now it is an issue. Quit spinning.

Playing Rockstar Table Tennis has only reinforced the issue as well. That game makes use of rumble in a perfect way.

 

[cheekymunky]

No one ever talked about it until it went missing. It was taken for granted and thought to be a gimme with any new console that came out.

Seriously, who ever thought there would be no rumble in the controller when the PS3 was announced?

I never did, so it was a non issue. Now it is an issue. Quit spinning.

You are right...it is an issue.

Just not as big an issue to people who want a PS3 as much as people who have no intention on buying one. (for the most part)

 

[Dr_Cogent]

You are right...it is an issue.

Just not as big an issue to people who want a PS3 as much as people who have no intention on buying one. (for the most part)

Maybe for you it is like that, but it is not the same for everyone. Hence, the differing opinion.

I have good intentions on the PS3, but no rumble is a factor that plays in it.

 

[SolidSnakex]

No one ever talked about it until it went missing. It was taken for granted and thought to be a gimme with any new console that came out.

Oh please, anything that's worth talking about in gaming people talk about. That's just how it is, people don't let a feature, that's seems to have become one of the greatest things to ever happen to videogaming just go under the radar for 10 years and then suddenly realise how incredible it is because its not in a system. It doesn't work like that. People didn't talk about it because its a nice feature that's not a make or break feature.

I never did, so it was a non issue. Now it is an issue. Quit spinning.

The only people spinning are the ones playing up a feature that's been around for 10 years as something suddenly amazing.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

SolidSnakex
SONY DEFENCE FORCE
Special OPS: Colonel

Sorry, forgot who I was talking to.

Using said logic, no one ever talks about the TV as being such a major technological advancement, so I guess we should just remove that too from the experience.

And that's been around for even longer.

 

[Deku]

As the old saying goes, intelligent people tend to have the greatest powers of rationalizaiton. What should be a fairly straightforward discussion has turned into a discussion and insults flying back and forth.

Rumble is an accepted feature now. Anecdotal personal preferences aside, not having it will have an impact on the overall perceived value to the gamer and could lead to bad PR in the future when multiplatform games are compared unfavorably against the PS3 because it didn't have rumble.

Immersion talking smack seems to indicate they have little chance of getting a license from Sony at this point. So they have nothing to lose really other than to further embarass Sony for its draconian decision to leave out rumble over a patent issue.

All of this was known at E3, but people still want to beat the dead horse. As much as I want to point the finger at other groups, the same group of apologists who show up in the thread trying to rationalize why not having rumble is a good thing. God forbid if someone said anything bad, the automatic response is to insult the two other consoles which ironically will have rumble.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Sorry, forgot who I was talking to.

Fantastic argument there. It speaks volumes when someone quotes a tag instead of actually trying to respond.

 

[Raven.]

I don't know what the loophole was, but Nintendo's patent seems to describe two pieces, the controller's shell and a "vibration source", while Immersion's talks about three pieces, the controller's shell, a "rotation actuator" (motor) and a weighted mass. They're both the same thing (a motor with a weight glued to the shaft), but I guess that if you describe your product to the authorities as a one piece unit you're Nintendo's bitch, and if you break it down into it's primary components you're Immersion's.

Here we have two corporations essentially patenting and owning the same thing/ip under different wording and simultaneously holding such conflicting patents and licensing rights.

That's just the plain and simple BS-nature of US patents. (e.g. so If I describe a car in terms of its components in an elaborate way I get a patent? actually who am I kidding, I know I'd get such a phony patent easily in the pathetic US patent office. Though that'd be so evidently retarded in court that it'd hold no ground... strange that didn't happen with this case since it seems to be essentially the same thing only in another field.)

The US patent system, is a corrupt patent system designed to favor big corps and illegitimate claims while squashing true innovators and small corps. Heck this case is an exemplar of this truth, the difficulty immersion had getting their obvious alternate implementation of prior tech into court, and later being able to use this despite the fact it shouldn't hold ground, is just so so pathetic/sickening. These corrupt systems, they beg to be fixed, and they shall be in due time, willing or unwillingly. (I know I'd never patent my stuff, I'd just keep it as a trade-secret, while keeping plenty of evidence to prove prior art, just in case someone tried to patent it in the future.)

Another thing I don't get is how it's possible for them to start suing after their tech is so widely used in the marketplace. Inventors are not supposed to be able to actually do that(allowing their product to be sold widely before starting defensive litigations.), they lose their right if they don't sue anyone and allow it to spread about. Here's the wiki entry on such legal defenses.

As for sony, they should just license the tech from nintendo(They'd have essentially the same features in their controllers as they had in the past without dealing with immersion-just further proving the point of how ridiculous this patent is.) or just buy immersion... In any case, losing face and settling on an frivolous patent is just such an ungraceful move, better to lose rumble than to do that.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Fantastic argument there. It speaks volumes when someone has quotes a tag instead of actually trying to respond.

:lol

Defence Force Indeed.

 

[_Angelus_]

Yep-somethings I'll let slide,but when it comes to next gen gaming having no rumble,and at at a $500.00 starting point? That just turns me off.

 

[raYne]

Yah i'm sure they're going to be saying that. This has gone from a feature no one really talked abotu to one that's suddenly become the backbone of modern gaming.

For the same reason that no one talks about analog triggers (or buttons in the PS*'s case). No, you don't need them, but it's become a gaming standard. As a result, you better believe people are gonna be all over a company if it goes missing in from a console.

Same thing with backwards compatibility. You don't need that either, but (see 360)... It's a missing feature that should be there.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

Rumble is an accepted feature now. Anecdotal personal preferences aside, not having it will have an impact on the overall perceived value to the gamer and could lead to bad PR in the future when multiplatform games are compared unfavorably against the PS3

Just like the Wavebird. People wont even touch that thing anymore.

Spoiler

I won't play with anything else.

 

[cheekymunky]

Maybe for you it is like that, but it is not the same for everyone. Hence, the differing opinion.

I have good intentions on the PS3, but no rumble is a factor that plays in it.

you are right again. Rumble does indeed play a factor.....I am quite dissapointed in the lack of rumble, and have stated so many times. I just dont believe its a deal breaker like many others (not you) have implied.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

you are right again. Rumble does indeed play a factor.....I am quite dissapointed in the lack of rumble, and have stated so many times. I just dont believe its a deal breaker like many others (not you) have implied.

Deal breaker is relative. If PS3 comes out with something I absolutely have to have - then the loss of rumble will be diminished. Still, it's not like I am not going to miss if it doesn't have it - and could possibly play a role in what version of a game I buy that is multiplatform.

 

[SolidSnakex]

For the same reason that no one talks about analog triggers (or buttons in the PS*'s case).

People have talked up analog triggers though because they're a great feature for racing games. They aren't the center of attention or anything, but they still get attention.

Same thing with backwards compatibility. You don't need that either, but (see 360)...

Yah...no one talks about backwards compatibility at all.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

So, what I am curious about is - does the entire defence force simply just not care that rumble is gone? Like is it:

Good riddance rumble. I ****ing hated you to begin with. I wish we never had that feature in gaming ever. It has been a bane upon the industry for too long.

or is it

I worship the ground Kutargi walks on. Sony can do no wrong. I will not complain to my masters.

I think it's the latter.

And that's a shame. I called MS on their whole retard pack thing. I am not rooting for one company over another. I want the best product possible unlike some.

No company makes all the right moves. No company.

 

[Deku]

Just like the Wavebird. People wont even touch that thing anymore.

Spoiler

I won't play with anything else.

You're too fast for me. I hit submit by mistake and went back and expanded on my post. But I'll say this.

WaveBird was an oddity when it came out and it traded rumble for its wireless feature. But you know, 360 and Wii will both have wireless AND rumble included. It's not that hard really to see why not having both would be a disadvantage.

 

[cheekymunky]

could possibly play a role in what version of a game I buy that is multiplatform.

It could very well play a role in that for me as well. If the PS3 and 360 version of a game are exactly the same in content and graphics....then the 360 might just get my gametime for certain game. It is just too early to tell, for me personally. I love rumble but just the other day I was playing Ratchet Deadlocked....using my Logitech cordless and had inadvertantly turned off rumble....I didnt even realize it for at least an hour.....that is no exaggeration or lie, I really didnt notice for an hour (of course, once I noticed, I had to turn it back on or I couldnt concentrate).

 

[Dr_Cogent]

It could very well play a role in that for me as well. If the PS3 and 360 version of a game are exactly the same in content and graphics....then the 360 might just get my gametime for certain game. It is just too early to tell, for me personally. I love rumble but just the other day I was playing Ratchet Deadlocked....using my Logitech cordless and had inadvertantly turned off rumble....I didnt even realize it for at least an hour.....that is no exaggeration or lie, I really didnt notice for an hour (of course, once I noticed, I had to turn it back on or I couldnt concentrate).

If you played Rockstar Table Tennis for any good period of time, and turned off the rumble - you would notice immediately. It's a key element in the gameplay IMO.

Anyhow, I'm out. There's no changing anyone's mind here on these boards.

 

[SolidSnakex]

So, what I am curious about is - does the entire defence force simply just not care that rumble is gone? Like is it:

Who says people don't care its gone? I care as it was a nice feature, but at the sametime i'm not going to bitch abotu it being gone because it's not something that I even notice in the majority of games. And they've added something that could potentially benefit certain games more than rumble ever has.

 

[raYne]

People have talked up analog triggers though because they're a great feature for racing games. They aren't the center of attention or anything, but they still get attention.

But is it still brought up in discussion? I can't remember the last time someone said, "Oh man, analog triggers rock in X game". As I said above, if it goes missing... expect backlash aplenty.

Yah...no one talks about backwards compatibility at all.

That example was used as a missing "standard" feature that the company recieved backlash for, not as a topic that never comes up.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

You're too fast for me. I hit submit by mistake and went back and expanded on my post. But I'll say this.

WaveBird was an oddity when it came out and it traded rumble for its wireless feature. But you know, 360 and Wii will both have wireless AND rumble included. It's not that hard really to see why not having both would be a disadvantage.

What I'm saying is the second I got a Wavebird I completely forgot about rumble, it is that insubstantial in gaming. I never felt like there was any kind of tradeoff because I simply didn't care enough about to rumble to give it a second thought. I have always felt rumble to be gimmicky in both what it actually is and how it has been implemented in games and it gives no sense of immersion whatsoever because it is so out of place. But to each his own. Good work editing out the insult as well.

 

[WalkMan]

If your collection is made up of mostly RPGs like mine, then it has zero affect.

 

[_Angelus_]

I'm playing Quake 4 and am approaching an area where a gigantic boss looms closer and closer-the controller rumbles more and more. Loosing that looses immersion in your game.

Or how about the drama of feeling a thumping heartbeat as your controller rumbles in a game of MLB2K for that matter? It just adds to the moment of tension. Any sports fan knows this.

Going between mud,snow,and concrete in a brutal rival race in RallySport2,feeling every moment of it with the pad. Then someone just up and takes that away?

I just do not understand how anyone can simply shrug it off and act like loosing rumble for a next gen. machine is not a big deal here.

 

[Deku]

What I'm saying is the second I got a Wavebird I completely forgot about rumble, it is that insubstantial in gaming. I never felt like there was any kind of tradeoff because I simply didn't care enough about to rumble to give it a second thought. I have always felt rumble to be gimmicky in both what it actually is and how it has been implemented in games and it gives no sense of immersion whatsoever because it is so out of place. But to each his own. Good work editing out the insult as well.

In that case, see point #1 of my post. Anecdotel/personal preferences is not relevant. Because you can talk yourself to death and there will still be someone who prefer something thats totally contradictory to what's being said.

The issue that gets people worked up is market effects, but usually, it ends up with 'well i'm ok with it' (implying, so should everyone else). I didn't realize everyone were robots with the same preference. The argument is fundamentally flawed and its being perpetuated over and over again by apologists trying to rationalize this.

It's bad for Sony not to have rumble. I'm sure Sony will come up with an inhouse solution for a V2 DS3 controller, but until then, its a crutch. deal with it.

 

[SolidSnakex]

But is it still brought up in discussion? I can't remember the last time someone said, "Oh man, analog triggers rock in X game". As I said above, if it goes missing... expect backlash aplenty.

I know alot of racing fans talk about it. It's the best alternative for those that don't want to pay out for a racing wheel, which makes up a good percentage of racing fans. There's a very clear benefit to the gamer with a feature like that.

 

[Lapsed]

Why should someone pay the expensive X360 price when MS is too cheap to pay for full Backwards-Compatibility that even the Wii has?

Because, as an educated gamer, you know about the licensing issues that went with the original Xbox and why, no matter how much money Microsoft spends, all the Xbox 360 backwards compatibility has to be emulated.

why should someone pay over 100 bucks for Wii when it is too cheap to provide the graphical technology that even 360 has?
alt: itt we play a game

alt2: now we all hop on the train of dumb logic with our friend Lapsed!

:lol

Talk about dumb logic! A logical comparison, Amir0x, to my question would be asking about the Wii about removing a feature that the Gamecube or the N64 had.

Your error was comparing the one console to another. The context was comparing the console to its previous incarnations. It would be like saying, "Why pay $600 for the PS3's motion controller when you get a better one for the Wii?" That wouldn't make sense.

My question makes sense, and no one wants to answer it. So I will ask it again:

Why should someone pay the expensive price for the PS3 when Sony is too cheap to put in something as basic as rumble?

What about PS1 and PS2 backwards compatibility without rumble in the PS3 controller? If Sony could spend so much R&D for Blu-Ray and Cell, why not an alternate form of rumble or just sign something with Immersion?

Sony isn't making the effort for gamers on this one. That much is clear.

 

[Mmmkay]

I'm playing Quake 4 and am approaching an area where a gigantic boss looms closer and closer-the controller rumbles more and more. Loosing that looses immersion in your game.

Just imagine how those poor PC gamers must have felt.

 

[davepoobond]

no rumble equals more battery time for actual playing guyyzzzz

 

[bishoptl]

Just imagine how those poor PC gamers must have felt.

lolzers