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in-law religious issue. opinions would help me sort it out.

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My mind is seriously blown right now.

This man is almost SEVENTY FIVE. His entire world was recently shattered by having lost his wife, and the OP, his daughter and grandson is everything he has going for him. You expect the OP to just tell him to "FUCK OFF" ?

Go volunteer in a retirement home for one day. You will see what kind of mental state a lot of old people are in. The one I was at, a good chunk were put there because they had lost their significant other, and had broken down. They had become mentally unstable.

Now, in the OP' case, it doesn't seem that severe, and hell; he might be completely fine, but just be very religious.

STILL;

Ignore him.
 
To Far Away Times said:
Tell your son to be respectful of his grandfather's beliefs, but at the same time, his grandfather should respect his beliefs as well and not try to push his religion on him.

Tell him that his grandfather doesn't mean any harm, but he is spouting some nonsense.
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So basically the father is allowed to impose whichever belief (or lack thereof) system onto the kid that he wants, but the grandfather isn't. Got it.

I'm going to give my kids two books. One will be the Bible, the other will be "On the Origin of Species". Two books enter, one survives.
 
Kraftwerk said:
My mind is seriously blown right now.

This man is almost SEVENTY FIVE. His entire world was recently shattered by having lost his wife, and the OP, his daughter and grandson is everything he has going for him. You expect the OP to just tell him to "FUCK OFF" ?

Go volunteer in a retirement home for one day. You will see what kind of mental state a lot of old people are in. The one I was at, a good chunk were put there because they had lost their significant other, and had broken down. They had become mentally unstable.

Now, in the OP' case, it doesn't seem that severe, and hell; he might be completely fine, but just be very religious.

STILL;

Ignore him.
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Why is it relevant that he lost his wife? If I told you that I had lost everything would you suddenly respect me for this simple fact? Empathy =/= respect.
 
Orayn said:
This is dumb in every conceivable way.
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It's also a joke.

It was just a kind of humorous idea to me that the kid's belief system needed to be protected. As if a nine year old has really thought deeply on the meaning of life.

Captain Tuttle said:
I don't see the problem here.
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Me neither. If a father wants to tell his kids that man descended from the great spaghetti monster in the sky, it's fine with me.

Edit: Which isn't to say that I think parents should do that... it would be quite cruel to send your children to school with the idea that there was a mystical spaghetti monster controlling their destinies.
Edit: Which is also to say that it's the parent's job to instill some sort of worldview onto their children, and not the grandparents. In other words, I agree with the OP, but I feel bad for the old man.

I am the worst Catholic alive. Except for...well, you know.
 
To add to my post earlier I have to say that I dislike the "Respect your elders" line.

Everyone should hold some baseline for human decency for one another and on top of this you add any form of respect as is earned.

I come from an Asian background and it irritates me when there's this fiat tradition to 'respect your elders' even if your elders may have acted like worthless pieces of shit thanks to their traditions or practices. They did not earn my respect and I should not be forced to prostrate myself before them. To best way to receive additional respect has always been to earn it and to keep earning it.

The OP in this case should be holding on to teaching his son the practice of human decency by enduring the viewpoints of others in so far as it isn't harmful or could lead to harm.

If there's a case that he's going to pull an Edgardo Mortara then yes, there's some reason to be concerned but it's usually a case of old people and their dying ways (and ways of dying).
 
reggie said:
Why is it relevant that he lost his wife? If I told you that I had lost everything would you suddenly respect me for this simple fact? Empathy =/= respect.
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Because it highlights the reason of his loneliness that the OP observed. Its a mitigating factor. And aside from the religious issues the OP seems to get along and want his father-in-law involved in his family's life. Redirecting these conversations and engaging the father-in-law in conversations and activities that will help him connect with his family and avoid the confrontations might just be better for everyone all around.
 
I find that the best way to make religious people stop trying to convert you is by actually fighting back. Even at inappropriate times just try to mention religion and the various flaws with whatever brand of kool aid said person indulges in. In no time flat they'll never EVER bring up god again.
 
Old people deserve respect simply for being old because real life is fucking hard; JUST making it through 60-70-80+ years of real life deserves respect.

People working full-time, living on their own, raising families, LIVING, understand this. People who don't, won't until they get there.
 
WedgeX said:
Because it highlights the reason of his loneliness that the OP observed. Its a mitigating factor. And aside from the religious issues the OP seems to get along and want his father-in-law involved in his family's life. Redirecting these conversations and engaging the father-in-law in conversations and activities that will help him connect with his family and avoid the confrontations might just be better for everyone all around.
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Do you think I don't feel bad that the guy is lonely? It sucks, but it is no excuse to be disrespectful. There is nothing wrong with the OP telling him to drop it.
 
Respecting a person is not the same as respecting their beliefs or their ideas. I can have respect for someone and still disrespect their ideas. I think the "respect is earned" mantra applies less to people than it does to ideas.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Never understood how a man could tolerate a disrespectful in-law in his home. Ever.

Gives a bad lesson to the kids.
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Because the in-laws are your partner's parents.

Could you tell your own parents to GTFO?

I suppose some could, and that's fine - but if you can't, then I don't see why it should be easier to turf the in-laws.


That said, just innoculate the children before hand - "grandpa is old and lonely, but a bit silly - we humour him by allowing him to be a guest, but a lot of the things he says won't make sense, because they simply don't make sense."

In the same time, you've taught them a little about social mores and compassion - which is a good lesson for kids.
 
goldenpp72 said:
I suppose being religious and having your kid exposed to an atheist who tried to remove god from their lives would be just fine then right?
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What level of stupidity goggles do I need to make this appear like a good point? I haven't leveled them up as much as I should have.
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
Old people deserve respect simply for being old because real life is fucking hard; JUST making it through 60-70-80+ years of real life deserves respect.

People working full-time, living on their own, raising families, LIVING, understand this. People who don't, won't until they get there.
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Everyone has to do this. I think quarter life crisis people and mid life crisis people have it much worse but they don't get any special respect thrown at them. Old people can just sit around and talk shit all day.

And sure they've earned that, but I'm not going to respect some random old person just because they're old. I have no clue who they are or what they've done. (Godwins law incoming - what if they were a nazi etc.) I remain courteous to all people and if they treat me the same then respect is earned in that regard, but there has to be some kind of back and forth first.
 
reggie said:
Do you think I don't feel bad that the guy is lonely? It sucks, but it is no excuse to be disrespectful. There is nothing wrong with the OP telling him to drop it.
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The 'respect/disrespect' thing is... He's the OP's wife's father. And grandfather to the OP's son. Trying to connect one thing that he apparently cares a lot about to those he cares about, including the OP. In an inappropriate manner, for sure. And the OP tried to talk it out. And it went no where. OP already has the support of his wife to ignore it. Hence the redirection and trying to engage him in other activities if the OP wants him to be involved otherwise.
 
Zaptruder said:
"grandpa is old and lonely, but a bit silly - we humour him by allowing him to be a guest, but a lot of the things he says won't make sense, because they simply don't make sense."
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I find it funny that telling the grandpa to drop it is disrespectful, but what you said is perfectly fine.

What do you think is worse? Having someone tell you that you're crossing the line, or someone condescendly tell their kid that you are a loser and they only humour you to make you happier?
 
reggie said:
I find it funny that telling the grandpa to drop it is disrespectful, but what you said is perfectly fine.

What do you think is worse? Having someone tell you that you're crossing the line, or someone condescendly tell their kid how you are a loser and they only humour you to make you happier?
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Could just tell the kid the truth, that Daddy and Mommy disagree with Grandpa, but that Grandpa has good intentions, and that humoring him is probably best for the family dynamic. No one benefits from a feud with the in-laws.

The kid is lucky that his grandfather is still alive. Both of mine were dead by the time I was nine years old. I'd never forgive my father if one of them had lived, and he had just told him to "fuck off" as some people are suggesting, and I never got to see him :P
 
reggie said:
I find it funny that telling the grandpa to drop it is disrespectful, but what you said is perfectly fine.

What do you think is worse? Having someone tell you that you're crossing the line, or someone condescendly tell their kid how that are a loser and they only humour you to make you happier?
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Look. You can absolutely tell them that you're not interested in their sermons and preaching. Absolutely. State it firmly and unequivocably - without disrespecting him.

But that's markedly different from telling them to fuck off if they can't 'respect the laws of your house'. In the case of the latter, you cut ties with the person because they can't help been themselves.

The solution (in the case that the guy won't stop, because he 'can't stop') - recognizing that, despite the sermons and preaching there is value in retaining connection to family - is to innoculate the children. If your main problem is that your impressionable children might get the wrong ideas from grandpa - innoculate them. It's a better solution then rejecting him outright.

Also... reggie, it may be a lesson you never learnt, but you give everyone a basic level of respect, irrespective of whether or not they deserve it - because it makes you a better person for it. And that's a lesson that should be passed onto children.
 
I have a very difficult mother in law and for the second time in 6 years my wife has cut off contact with her. I've always taken the stance that I support my wife in however she decides she wants to handle her mother. I think the OP should discuss his concerns with his wife and if she says to ignore it I'd do so. That being said, we cut off contact with my MIL because she was being very abusive to my wife in front of our kids. I stepped in to stop it and we left the house and drove home the next day (Thanksgiving). My wife had it and we cut off contact with her and I support my wife. When/if she wants to re-establish contact I'll support her.

In short, follow your wife's lead on this, she seems to be reasonable.
 
Captain Tuttle said:
I have a very difficult mother in law and for the second time in 6 years my wife has cut off contact with her. I've always taken the stance that I support my wife in however she decides she wants to handle her mother. I think the OP should discuss his concerns with his wife and if she says to ignore it I'd do so. That being said, we cut off contact with my MIL because she was being very abusive to my wife in front of our kids. I stepped in to stop it and we left the house and drove home the next day (Thanksgiving). My wife had it and we cut off contact with her and I support my wife. When/if she wants to re-establish contact I'll support her.

In short, follow your wife's lead on this, she seems to be reasonable.
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Yeah, some parents can be total pieces of shit as well. If a person has a womb that can accept sperm, they can be a parent too.
 
Zaptruder said:
Also... reggie, it may be a lesson you never learnt, but you give everyone a basic level of respect, irrespective of whether or not they deserve it - because it makes you a better person for it. And that's a lesson that should be passed onto children.
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At what point did it become 'clear' that I don't give anyone respect? Do you think I go around being an asshole to everyone? I am nice to everyone, it's only when they step over the line that there's any problems. If you think everyone deserves respect irrespective of whether they are complete assholes or not, you are the one that needs to learn a lesson.
 
I give old people a pass on a lot of things. Just anecdotal, but many seem to get this way when a lot of their family and friends have died and they are thinking of what little life they have left. It makes them worried about yours. At least that is what I've noticed from the religious people who have died in my own family. He probably has good intentions, so I hope it works out.
 
reggie said:
At what point did it become 'clear' that I don't give anyone respect? Do you think I go around being an asshole to everyone? I am nice to everyone, it's only when they step over the line that there's any problems. If you think everyone deserves respect irrespective of whether they are complete assholes or not, you are the one that needs to learn a lesson.
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We get it. You're the asshole. This is a test.
 
Ignore him? If I can ignore the internet's every 5 second reminder that there isn't a god I think you can ignore the real world's every 5 second reminder that there is.
 
reggie said:
Why is it relevant that he lost his wife? If I told you that I had lost everything would you suddenly respect me for this simple fact? Empathy =/= respect.
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To be able to give proper advice in any kind of situation, you have to take into account various factors leading up to that situation.

And in a lot of situations, you can't simply go for the direct route, as simple as it sounds. If you fall into this same situation (or even something similar), I'd like to see you tell your father in-law/in-laws to fuck off or go away, as you suggested.

OP can't tell his father in-law to fuck off or go away, because the OP's family is all he has left. To do so would simply crush him. He's not some random person looking to speak to someone, he's family.

I don't get what's so confusing about with this, Reggie. The man wants to talk to someone, and what's one topic he likes? Religion. Who does he have left to speak to? OP's family. At this point, you can't sway him, so the best you can do is to ignore or humour him. You make it sound like "giving him a free pass" is allowing him to do everything he wants. Absolutely not, but sometimes, it's not worth arguing about. You're looking at this one-dimensionally.

Too many times, I've had people tell me to "believe in God" and do you think I tell all of them to fuck off or go away? No. I ignore them. I live in a Catholic household, do I tell my parents to fuck off or go away when they tell me I should pray? No. When my grandmother tells me God is watching over me and I should always go to church, do I tell her to fuck off or go away? Fuck no.

And in the end, I'm sure his father in-law means well.
 
FireCloud said:
The answer may be found in prayer.
yes ... I'm serious
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qO6Il.jpg
 
KHarvey16 said:
What level of stupidity goggles do I need to make this appear like a good point? I haven't leveled them up as much as I should have.
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As a non religious person, I don't want people trying to teach my kid about things that can drastically (and in my mind, falsely) direct them. Just as I feel that, I would not try to push how I think on other peoples children either, until they were old enough to make their own opinions and caught that mine was different.

Stupid how?
 
Just tell the grandfather aside and tell him that you'd appreciate it greatly if he wouldn't bring up religious issues up around your son, and that if he needs to discuss your religious beliefs do it with you in private. Chances are that your son already assumes grandpa is a bit out of it anyway. Kids are pretty perceptive.
 
reggie said:
At what point did it become 'clear' that I don't give anyone respect? Do you think I go around being an asshole to everyone? I am nice to everyone, it's only when they step over the line that there's any problems. If you think everyone deserves respect irrespective of whether they are complete assholes or not, you are the one that needs to learn a lesson.
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Bare minimum respect is the term I used - respect exists along a continuum - you can show more respect and less respect, but as a good rule of thumb, you should simply show a bare minimum a courtesy.

Again, not because the other party deserves it, but because you deserve it.

While I said 'may not have learnt', it's clear from subsequent posts, that it's very unlikely you've learnt such a lesson in your life. Which is a shame - and part of the reason why discourse is so vitriolic and impassable in modern life.
 
There is totally room for a "middle way" of how to show respect while saying 'no'. Give them as much care, love and respect as you can without twisting your own beliefs to suit them.
 
Zaptruder said:
While I said 'may not have learnt', it's clear from subsequent posts, that it's very unlikely you've learnt such a lesson in your life. Which is a shame - and part of the reason why discourse is so vitriolic and impassable in modern life.
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It's ironic that you say this yet the majority of the people on your side in this thread could barely muster up any coherent arguments without resorting to weak ad hominem.
 
reggie said:
It's ironic that you say this yet the majority of the people on your side in this thread could barely muster up any coherent arguments without resorting to weak ad hominem.
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You do know we aren't a monolithic collective. There are common ground between disparate opinions. I don't talk for them any more then I talk for you.

My point is simple - you can repudiate the beliefs and opinions of others without having to tell them to 'fuck off', or doing whatever amounts to making you a lesser person at the same time.
 
Zaptruder said:
You do know we aren't a monolithic collective. There are common ground between disparate opinions. I don't talk for them any more then I talk for you.

My point is simple - you can repudiate the beliefs and opinions of others without having to tell them to 'fuck off', or doing whatever amounts to making you a lesser person at the same time.
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You were the one claiming that my line of thinking is "part of the reason why discourse is so vitriolic and impassable in modern life"

You too have also missed the part where I admitted that "fuck off" was too harsh, reading it on a message board comes off the wrong way. I still stand by telling him to drop it or leave though.
 
I think the bigger issue here is that the Grandfather is 'talking to God'. If he meant this in a prayer sense, that's fine, if he means an audible conversation then you need to talk to your wife about her fathers mental health issues. Does he live by himself.
 
reggie said:
You were the one claiming that my line of thinking is "part of the reason why discourse is so vitriolic and impassable in modern life"

You too have also missed the part where I admitted that "fuck off" was too harsh, reading it on a message board comes off the wrong way. I still stand by telling him to drop it or leave though.
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Last post, because it's getting boring posting clarifications... feels quite petty... we're not even really arguing over anything at this point.

But the line was "learnt such a lesson in your life. Which is a shame - and part of the reason why discourse is so vitriolic and impassable in modern life."

The lesson again been to provide a bare-minimum of respect to others, for your own benefit, and not for their sake. i.e. because this sort of thinking isn't prevalent - what naturally emerges from that are vitriolic arguments where parties come to an impasse without resolving anything, instead creating bitter resentment for one another.

It's an idea that's independent of whatever I feel about you - whatever i correctly or incorrectly believe about you has little bearing on the validity of that statement.
 
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