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[Snapshot King]

Ditto.
Hotline Miami was the first indie game to really grab my interest. I will always prefer my GTAs and Yakuzas and other big budget open world games though

Not to say I don't enjoy platformers like Meatboy, or Braid, or games like Bastion, etc (the "big" indies).

But the vast, VAST majority are platformers with a gimmick, adventure games, schmups or puzzlers.

Give me some side scrolling hard action games. Give me some charming jrpgs, give me some old school western rpgs (though I have backed all 4 of the recent kickstarters, so I'll get that).

 

[Data West]

Not to say I don't enjoy platformers like Meatboy, or Braid, or games like Bastion, etc (the "big" indies).

But the vast, VAST majority are platformers with a gimmick, adventure games, schmups or puzzlers.

Give me some side scrolling hard action games. Give me some charming jrpgs, give me some old school western rpgs (though I have backed all 4 of the recent kickstarters, so I'll get that).

or even something like Eurotruck Simulator or something like Maia. It feels like, if you don't like puzzles or 'puzzle platformers inspired by snes days', you're mostly boned in the indie scene. Like, Owlboy to me is as generic as Army of Two 3.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

No you know what is better than all of them? B games. Those games died out with this gen.

What is a B game you ask? Things like God hand or Drakengard - games that were the definition of experimental mechanics or story telling. With rising dev costs that shit is just gone. Indie games are limited as fuck and for better or worse usually come off as cheap 2 hr time sinks or overly artsy bullshit.

AAA games are now mostly the equivalent to the transformers movies, big and showy but ultimately a shallow experience.

A lot of the cool development of ideas last gen happened on B games, hell you could even argue that Ico and SotC were B games. They didn't have a huge budget behind them nor did anyone expect them to sell huge even though SotC had a pretty big marketing campaign.

 

[Snapshot King]

or even something like Eurotruck Simulator or something like Maia. It feels like, if you don't like puzzles or 'puzzle platformers inspired by snes days', you're mostly boned in the indie scene. Like, Owlboy to me is as generic as Army of Two 3.

I mean, I enjoyed the absolute hell this year out of Hotline Miami, FTL, Legend of Grimrock and Chivalry. They all actually did new things and in genres that I could appreciate. The OPs contention that there are more highly rated indies than AAA releases completely falls apart along genre lines.

The OP also conveniently ignores the Xbox Live Indie channel. Which, hoo boy. Whoa fuck that thing.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot Lone Survivor.

 

[Wyndstryker]

No you know what is better than all of them? B games. Those games died out with this gen.

What is a B game you ask? Things like God hand or Drakengard - games that were the definition of experimental mechanics or story telling. With rising dev costs that shit is just gone. Indie games are limited as fuck and for better or worse usually come off as cheap 2 hr time sinks or overly artsy bullshit.

AAA games are now mostly the equivalent to the transformers movies, big and showy but ultimately a shallow experience.

A lot of the cool development of ideas last gen happened on B games, hell you could even argue that Ico and SotC were B games. They didn't have a huge budget behind them nor did anyone expect them to sell huge even though SotC had a pretty big marketing campaign.

Yup, have to agree with the mid-tier stuff. Imo, it's easier for an indie to upgrade towards mid-tier game development than a AAA developer putting resources into mid-tier development. Even now a lot of the indies that have console releases are much closer to what constitutes as the B game.

 

[Misguided]

Starseed Pilgrim is fucking awesome. Peace.

 

[Alex Connolly]

or even something like Eurotruck Simulator or something like Maia. It feels like, if you don't like puzzles or 'puzzle platformers inspired by snes days', you're mostly boned in the indie scene. Like, Owlboy to me is as generic as Army of Two 3.

That's not true at all. You only need to peruse Indie Game Mag or RPS to know that's not the case. So many unique and interesting games out there.

 

[Atomski]

That's not true at all. You only need to peruse Indie Game Mag or RPS to know that's not the case. So many unique and interesting games out there.

Yeah its kinda absurd when people hear indie or lower budget all they think is platformers... theres so much more.

While there is a lot of them I think its just a lot of developers latching on to a genre that was once dying that they missed. Now that we have a lot of good platformers though those same developers are moving on to other types of genres they liked as well. Its not like the Super Meat Boy guys went on to make more platformers..

 

[Snapshot King]

That's not true at all. You only need to peruse Indie Game Mag or RPS to know that's not the case. So many unique and interesting games out there.

Rad. Can you tell me how many unique and interesting rpgs are in the indie scene? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[BomberMouse]

I personally agree and I think indie games are usually better games, it's all about working within restrictions that makes them be creatively rich instead of just production values rich.

- They are usually from a smaller team so the original vision is much more cohesive.
- Since they don't have an infinite budget they have to work within restrictions and that's what brings the best of them.
- They are highly reminiscent of my personal golden era of games. ie, 88-94 pc games or 95-00 console games. The perfect balance between tools to create their vision but limited in some way which forced them to be creative and focused on it's execution.

 

[Data West]

That's not true at all. You only need to peruse Indie Game Mag or RPS to know that's not the case. So many unique and interesting games out there.

Throw point and clicks in there too then. It's just like not every big budget game is a linear shooter, but boy do they sure fill up most of the spotlight.

Rad. Can you tell me how many unique and interesting rpgs are in the indie scene? I'm genuinely interested.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1473965863/sui-generis

 

[Snapshot King]

Throw point and clicks in there too then. It's just like not every big budget game is a linear shooter, but boy do they sure fill up most of the spotlight.


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1473965863/sui-generis

This doesn't look playable.

EDIT: I figured it was obvious but I meant ones that currently exist. Removing Grimrock from the equation as well. (not because it's bad, in fact, it's awesome, but because I already gots it)

 

[UrbanRats]

or even something like Eurotruck Simulator or something like Maia. It feels like, if you don't like puzzles or 'puzzle platformers inspired by snes days', you're mostly boned in the indie scene. Like, Owlboy to me is as generic as Army of Two 3.

Whatever, i'll buy the shit out of Owlboy, the demo was great.
BTW when is that coming out?

 

[Salsa]

Indie games are inherently superior to AAA games in terms of taking advantage of what games can do over other mediums.

why? because even though AAA has the benefit of a larger scale due to a larger budget/more people involved, that benefit comes with the curse of having to appeal to a much larger audience to justify that investment; hence we end up with safe games that aim for spectacle, an experience that the player can easily see through, and very much "copy" what other succesful games have done before, not to mention other ill suited mediums like movies, ending up with cutscenes and all those shitty tropes

so in the end: I prefer indie games cause they are more likely to take chances, and they are much more of a personal piece of work where you can see the intent of the few people behind it, something that gets lost when those people are a 100+ team, but im glad that the AAA business still exists. Gotta move that tech forward.

 

[Atomski]

Throw point and clicks in there too then. It's just like not every big budget game is a linear shooter, but boy do they sure fill up most of the spotlight.


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1473965863/sui-generis

This is a problem we as gamers needs to get over though. The mass market is always going to make fluf popular. If we just go by whats on top we would all be boring listening to pop music and so on.

 

[Alex Connolly]

Rad. Can you tell me how many unique and interesting rpgs are in the indie scene? I'm genuinely interested.

Cool beans. I always feel Toma wants to grab everyone by the collar and shake them, yelling 'open your eyes!'...but hey, have a few links and see if anything fits the bill.

IndieGames.com - A good one that deals with indie games across the board, all platforms.
Indie Game Mag - Another good one, primarily PC/Mac/Linux-centric.

And of course, RPS. I could list more, but that's really all you need. Oh, and do check out Desura. I know, I know, another client, but it has a rich and varied indie catalog with very low costs of entry. Running With Rifles, for instance! A steal at seven smackers. One of the best multiplayer games you can buy, even in beta.

 

[ronito]

if there was only a way that I could instagram me playing indie games...

 

[Snapshot King]

Cool beans. I always feel Toma wants to grab everyone by the collar and shake them, yelling 'open your eyes!'...but hey, have a few links and see if anything fits the bill.

IndieGames.com - A good one that deals with indie games across the board, all platforms.
Indie Game Mag - Another good one, primarily PC/Mac/Linux-centric.

And of course, RPS. I could list more, but that's really all you need. Oh, and do check out Desura. I know, I know, another client, but it has a rich and varied indie catalog with very low costs of entry. Running With Rifles, for instance! A steal at seven smackers. One of the best multiplayer games you can buy, even in beta.

I appreciate the links, but a few points. You're totally right about me not getting another client. I had to get Desura to install...Eerie? I think it was, way back, got rid of it as soon as I was done. Also, the sites you gave me...maybe I'm blind, but I can't seem to find any easily searched archives or genre categories. My knowledge that indies exist isn't my problem, my issue is wading through the 90% of games in genres I don't care for.

 

[Wyndstryker]

Rad. Can you tell me how many unique and interesting rpgs are in the indie scene? I'm genuinely interested.

Well if you want RPG's I'll post a few that got people's attention. They aren't really traditional RPG's though. And they're RPGMaker, so most people tend to throw them out of the picture by default.

To The Moon

The Witch's House

Ib

There's more but they're in the freeware side of things using some audio or graphics from other sources so I'd rather not put those up. They're great but since they got the ripped stuff I don't really want to post them. And it's late, I can't dig around as much as I want to while half asleep.

 

[Snapshot King]

Well if you want RPG's I'll post a few that got people's attention. They aren't really traditional RPG's though. And they're RPGMaker, so most people tend to throw them out of the picture by default.

To The Moon

The Witch's House

Ib

There's more but they're in the freeware side of things using some audio or graphics from other sources so I'd rather not put those up. They're great but since they got the ripped stuff I don't really want to post them. And it's late, I can't dig around as much as I want to while half asleep.

None of those are rpgs?

 

[Wyndstryker]

None of those are rpgs?

Two are horror rpg's. No battles, focus on story/exploration.

To The Moon is in the "I have no clue what to call it". Just awesome story with some exploration / puzzle in it.

All play top down with old school jrpg presentation. After that they lines change up a bit.

 

[Snapshot King]

Two are horror rpg's. No battles, focus on story/exploration.

To The Moon is in the "I have no clue what to call it". Just awesome story with some exploration / puzzle in it.

All play top down with old school jrpg presentation. After that they lines change up a bit.

So, when my entire point is that my issue with the indie scene is that it's nothing but adventure games, puzzlers and point and clicks, and ask for RPGs, you point me to games you say are RPGs, yet in the devs own descriptions of the game on youtube label them adventure games, and then say that they are somehow rpgs (of any stripe)? This is exactly what's wrong with the indie scene.

 

[Feep]

So, when my entire point is that my issue with the indie scene is that it's nothing but adventure games, puzzlers and point and clicks, and ask for RPGs, you point me to games you say are RPGs, yet in the devs own descriptions of the game on youtube label them adventure games, and then say that they are somehow rpgs (of any stripe)? This is exactly what's wrong with the indie scene.

Well, I made a rhythm/RPG. The only pure RPGs I can really think of are the Zeboyd Games' titles. *Maybe* Recettear.

It turns out making an RPG is incredibly difficult and time-consuming. You have to be a special person/group to pull it off.

 

[Grief.exe]

Some of the best games I have played in the last few years have been Indie games.

While AAA have become increasingly dumbed down and homogenized, Indies have become increasingly creative and compelling.

• Binding of Isaac
• Terraria
• Chivalry
• Natural Selection 2
• Orcs Must Die
• Mark of the Ninja
• Don't Starve
• FTL
• Hotline Miami
• Bastion
• Legend of Grimrock
• Frozen Synapse
• Magicka
• Dungeons of Dreadmoor
• To The Moon
• Miasmata

Can't wait to play the ones coming out this year

Starbound
Fez
Dust: An Elysian Tale

Many "AAA" developers are too focused on expanding their audience, appealing to the lowest common denominator thus often (not always) leading to a dumbed down game.

Indie games usually have to focus on areas such as gameplay to bring attention to their game.

Well said.

 

[D3RANG3D]

None of those are rpgs?

Let me help you out

Book of Eschalon 1 and 2
Avadon the Black Fortress
Avernum Escape From the Pit
Dins Curse
The Age of Decadence
Chaos Chronicles
Underrail
E.Y.E. The Divine Cybermancy

 

[Arulan]

Indie games are inherently superior to AAA games in terms of taking advantage of what games can do over other mediums.

why? because even though AAA has the benefit of a larger scale due to a larger budget/more people involved, that benefit comes with the curse of having to appeal to a much larger audience to justify that investment; hence we end up with safe games that aim for spectacle, an experience that the player can easily see through, and very much "copy" what other succesful games have done before, not to mention other ill suited mediums like movies, ending up with cutscenes and all those shitty tropes

so in the end: I prefer indie games cause they are more likely to take chances, and they are much more of a personal piece of work where you can see the intent of the few people behind it, something that gets lost when those people are a 100+ team, but im glad that the AAA business still exists. Gotta move that tech forward.

To say one is better/worse than the other may be a bit broad but as you said, generally Indie developers can take greater risk. This risk, which is one of the most appealing things about Indie games is it tends to lead to gameplay innovation or providing players with somewhat obscure and niche genres otherwise absent within the "AAA" range of titles.

Many "AAA" developers are too focused on expanding their audience, appealing to the lowest common denominator thus often (not always) leading to a dumbed down game.

Indie games usually have to focus on areas such as gameplay to bring attention to their game. Take Path of Exile for example, it is probably the most innovative ARPG in recent years. If you're a fan of the genre I highly recommend checking it out (Free-To-Play). To the Moon is a great example as well, although not because of its gameplay. To the Moon focuses entirely on its story and music and managed to produce an amazing and emotional story. Games such as FTL bring a genre rarely seen. Starsector is another great example of an amazing 2D space combat game.

I encourage everyone who isn't familiar with Indie games to do so, you're missing out.

 

[Wyndstryker]

So, when my entire point is that my issue with the indie scene is that it's nothing but adventure games, puzzlers and point and clicks, and ask for RPGs, you point me to games you say are RPGs, yet in the devs own descriptions of the game on youtube label them adventure games, and then say that they are somehow rpgs (of any stripe)? This is exactly what's wrong with the indie scene.

I can start listing up some heavy traditional RPG's, even RPGMaker but I can't guarantee how good they are since I never tried them myself. I'm only comfortable listing stuff that I at least can vouch for. I can throw links around if needed but it's definitely not in my comfort zone for letting people try games I have not played.

As for non-traditional RPG's but still RPG's, only one I can remember off hand. It's an SRPG that allows for modding and whatnot.

Battle of Wesnoth

edit: Also what exactly are you looking in an RPG. Even the terminology of RPG is broad enough that what I listed can still count as RPG's.

edit 2: Aveyond It's late and I need sleep, so I'll throw up one link. Can't guarantee any quality on the games listed there but it's something.

 

[buhdeh]

Honestly, since I've gotten into PC gaming again, I haven't played a "AAA" game in months. Some of my favorite games are indie. Admittedly, I'm not exactly sure where the distinction begins and ends but based on my personal definition, I haven't had a single AAA game pull me away from the likes of:

Hotline Miami
FTL
Chivalry
Natural Selection 2
Orcs Must Die 2
Mark of the Ninja
Path of Exile

 

[Salsa]

To say one is better/worse than the other may be a bit broad but as you said, generally Indie developers can take greater risk. This risk, which is one of the most appealing things about Indie games is it tends to lead to gameplay innovation or providing players with somewhat obscure and niche genres otherwise absent within the "AAA" range of titles.

I just think the fact that working independently on a game makes for a better game. Im obviously talking from an ideal scenario where you can afford to accomplish your vision. Having no attachments to a company or publisher, no deadlines, etc etc in theory makes it inherently better. It's where games go to advance and try new things. AAA games are good but ussually stale, because they'll always have the money people behind them.

Obviously when you go to examples, saying that indie games are straight up better is much more of a subjective thing because there's obviously AAA games out there that are terrific, and because on your usual real case money starts to become an issue and all that, but im just saying that from a model perspective, being independent simply takes one obstacle away.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I haven't agreed with this too much before because of personal taste, but with a lot of big budget stuff becoming too expensive for any risks, I'm starting to agree with this take. Innovation will come from the smaller, downloadable space moving forward.

 

[thetrin]

I understand the OPs point, but my issue tends to be that I simply don't enjoy 99% of the genres that indies go for. If you showed me say...a 90s style classic rpg (either east or west) my ears would perk up.

How about this:

Does that perk your ears up?

(It's a straight up RPG)

As is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux57lalo7-o

(Granted, I'm biased because I'm working on both of these games, but the point still stands that great indie RPGs do exist, more in JP indie games than in the west)

Well, I made a rhythm/RPG. The only pure RPGs I can really think of are the Zeboyd Games' titles. *Maybe* Recettear.

It turns out making an RPG is incredibly difficult and time-consuming. You have to be a special person/group to pull it off.

While I do agree it's difficult, there are actually a wealth of RPGs on the JP side of indie that we're hoping to bring over, and hopefully dispel the misconception that they're a dying breed.

 

[Dr Dogg]

A horrible thing that is starting to/has already happened is that the term 'Indie' is being used more for marketing instead of the nature of the developers or the the titles roots. This happened with music and then latter films and is further highlighted the when EA decides to have their partner backed 'EA Indie Bundle' on Steam. Sure this was mainly smaller titles from independent developers but they sure had a lot more financial clout and marketing than the vast majority of smaller developers will ever lightly see.

 

[Snapshot King]

Let me help you out

Book of Eschalon 1 and 2
Avadon the Black Fortress
Avernum Escape From the Pit
Dins Curse
The Age of Decadence
Chaos Chronicles
Underrail
E.Y.E. The Divine Cybermancy

I can start listing up some heavy traditional RPG's, even RPGMaker but I can't guarantee how good they are since I never tried them myself. I'm only comfortable listing stuff that I at least can vouch for. I can throw links around if needed but it's definitely not in my comfort zone for letting people try games I have not played.

As for non-traditional RPG's but still RPG's, only one I can remember off hand. It's an SRPG that allows for modding and whatnot.

Battle of Wesnoth

edit: Also what exactly are you looking in an RPG. Even the terminology of RPG is broad enough that what I listed can still count as RPG's.

First of all, I want to thank both of you for the replies.

To the list...man all those games are rough. Does this make me a snob that I'm turned away so heavily by games, not because of their primitive graphics, but because of their complete lack of art style whatsoever? I dunno, maybe I'm just spoiled. Is Legend of Grimrock and the Zeboyd stuff all there is for games that aren't eye-searing?

And to the bolded, cmon man, gimme a break. You know what an rpg is. Skills, classes, dialogue trees, leveling up, etc. Legend of Grimrock and The Zeboyd stuff are the only strong examples Im aware of.

I really don't mean to come off like I'm snobbishly shitting on these games, I'm certain there was a ton of work put into the vast majority of these by talented people. That being said, am I just expecting too much when someone says "Hey, check out this great game!" and it's sub SNES in art/visual design/interface etc.

 

[Arulan]

I just think the fact that working independently on a game makes for a better game. Im obviously talking from an ideal scenario where you can afford to accomplish your vision. Having no attachments to a company or publisher, no deadlines, etc etc in theory makes it inherently better. It's where games go to advance and try new things. AAA games are good but ussually stale, because they'll always have the money people behind them.

Obviously when you go to examples, saying that indie games are straight up better is much more of a subjective thing because there's obviously AAA games out there that are terrific, and you start counting on money and all that, but im just saying that from a model perspective, being independent simply takes one obstacle away.

Ah ok, in terms of the production model I agree completely.

 

[Atomski]

I haven't agreed with this too much before because of personal taste, but with a lot of big budget stuff becoming too expensive for any risks, I'm starting to agree with this take. Innovation will come from the smaller, downloadable space moving forward.

Next gen AAA is just going to get worse.. higher dev cost just means publishers will be less and less willing to take risks. We will just see more and more sequels and remakes. Feel like eventually they will just hit a wall when gamers get burnt out.

 

[D3RANG3D]

First of all, I want to thank both of you for the replies.

To the list...man all those games are rough. Does this make me a snob that I'm turned away so heavily by games, not because of their primitive graphics, but because of their complete lack of art style whatsoever? I dunno, maybe I'm just spoiled. Is Legend of Grimrock and the Zeboyd stuff all there is for games that aren't eye-searing?

And to the bolded, cmon man, gimme a break. You know what an rpg is. Skills, classes, dialogue trees, leveling up, etc. Legend of Grimrock and The Zeboyd stuff are the only strong examples Im aware of.

I really don't mean to come off like I'm snobbishly shitting on these games, I'm certain there was a ton of work put into the vast majority of these by talented people. That being said, am I just expecting too much when someone says "Hey, check out this great game!" and it's sub SNES in art/visual design/interface etc.

Um Avadon/Avernum regardless of their lacking visuals are some of the best if not best CRPG's that are of the Infinity engine throwbacks but have polished as in useable interfaces that I can't say with a straight face to the games of yore.

 

[Wyndstryker]

I really don't mean to come off like I'm snobbishly shitting on these games, I'm certain there was a ton of work put into the vast majority of these by talented people. That being said, am I just expecting too much when someone says "Hey, check out this great game!" and it's sub SNES in art/visual design/interface etc.

It comes with the territory of indie. Production value goes out the window and almost entirely focus on gameplay. It happens that way since most indie games are made with extremely small teams with extremely limited budgets (if any in some cases).

Budget can make a game look fun to play, but no budget can make a game fun.

edit:
And with RPG's, they by their epic nature require large teams so unless they're using something like RPGMaker, you won't see many custom engine RPG's out there by an indie studio. Part of the reason why you see a bazillion platformers / shumps and whatnot in the indie scene. It's a lot more financially possible to make with a small team/budget.

 

[Risette]

I just think the fact that working independently on a game makes for a better game. Im obviously talking from an ideal scenario where you can afford to accomplish your vision. Having no attachments to a company or publisher, no deadlines, etc etc in theory makes it inherently better. It's where games go to advance and try new things.

You're naive if you think it works like this, even in theory. Indie developers almost always give up their total "vision" once they resort to using a shrinkwrapped game engine like Game Maker or limited programming environments like Flash, C#/XNA, etc -- they simply don't have the resources to build their own engine and tools that suit their creative workflow like Platinum Games does, for example. Then again, they are "independent" too, lol.

 

[Salsa]

You're naive if you think it works like this, even in theory. Indie developers almost always give up their total "vision" once they resort to using a shrinkwrapped game engine like Game Maker or limited programming environments like Flash, C#/XNA, etc -- they simply don't have the resources to build their own engine and tools that suit their creative workflow like Platinum Games does, for example. Then again, they are "independent" too, lol.

:S that depends entirely on the developer. Team Meat did everything from the ground up for Super Meat Boy for example. A lot of people work up their own engines.

furthermore, you can make a very new and different type of game on the same engine they do Gears of War. Im talking about having freedom to produce whatever you want in terms of game content without no one who isnt directly involved with the development making decisions for you, so I dont see how my argument is naive.

 

[Haunted]

Good thread, I agree with nearly all of your points and I know why you've written it the way you did, but I can already see that your blunt (some would call it preachy) delivery will cause some problems in this thread. Keep fighting the good fight, Toma!

I'll just link the latest indie game that really impressed me (more impressions here) and hope that a couple more people are interested enough to check it out. It's something unique that will pull you out of your usual comfort zone.

I wish indie games had the chops to be more than shallow NES or arcade type games in most cases. I'm not sure if some of these kickstarter RPGs like Wasteland 2 and Dead State count (not sure why they wouldn't) but I'm looking forward to those a lot more than what I'm assuming most people on this board are hyped for as far as indie stuff goes, because those will have some production values and depth behind them. Then again most of them were funded with money in the range of $350k-$3 million so I guess they have more of an advantage.

Thanks for providing this thread's equivalent of "I don't like PC gaming because a PC costs $3000 and I have to spend hours tweaking .inis before I can start any game and then it doesn't work because of driver issues."

Supremely ignorant.

 

[Dahbomb]

Its no surprise to see the rise of Indie games (quality wise) corrolating with a fall in the quality of AAA games. Back in my PS2 era it seemed almosy every AAA game was just doing it right. SOTC, DMC3, GOW2, MGS3, RE4, Metroid Prime, Half Life 2, Halo 2 etc all came within a short span of each other and were excellent games. I didn't NEED Indie games because AAA games delivered. Now AAA games feel like bloated mess each of them trying to copy and one up each other.

 

[Snapshot King]

It comes with the territory of indie. Production value goes out the window and almost entirely focus on gameplay. It happens that way since most indie games are made with extremely small teams with extremely limited budgets (if any in some cases).

Budget can make a game look fun to play, but no budget can make a game fun.

edit:
And with RPG's, they by their epic nature require large teams so unless they're using something like RPGMaker, you won't see many custom engine RPG's out there by an indie studio. Part of the reason why you see a bazillion platformers / shumps and whatnot in the indie scene. It's a lot more financially possible to make with a small team/budget.

Yes, obviously. Please, I'm not as naive about game development as you seem to imply, I just expected, well, more. I mean, Cthulu saves the world sure isn't a looker, but at least it makes good on what it has with some decent art. I'm aware the only reason Grimrock looks good is because there is a relative dearth of assets, but hey, they managed it.

I'm not blaming anybody here or trying to say that these games are bad. I suppose that I'm one of those people, in my chosen genres, that needs a certain baseline of polish equivalent to mainstream games from...I dunno, 15 years ago? The indie scene merely isn't the place to go for folks like myself, particularly since the "big indies" seem to be discounted. Lucky at least there's kickstarter now.

 

[Risette]

:S that depends entirely on the developer. Team Meat did everything from the ground up for Super Meat Boy for example. A lot of people work up their own engines.

Almost always.

furthermore, you can make a very new and different type of game on the same engine they do Gears of War. Im talking about having freedom to produce whatever you want in terms of game content, so I dont see how my argument is naive.

I think that identikit middleware like UE3 is also harmful to games, so...

 

[Deified Data]

Both indie and AAA games have their faults and their merits.

That said, I've played at least 20 times more AAA games I'd call "great" than indie games. I'm sure the OP has too, despite whatever he might say to the contrary.

 

[Snapshot King]

Its no surprise to see the rise of Indie games (quality wise) corrolating with a fall in the quality of AAA games. Back in my PS2 era it seemed almosy every AAA game was just doing it right. SOTC, DMC3, GOW2, MGS3, RE4, Metroid Prime, Half Life 2, Halo 2 etc all came within a short span of each other and were excellent games. I didn't NEED Indie games because AAA games delivered. Now AAA games feel like bloated mess each of them trying to copy and one up each other.

Man the PS2 era was so god damn good. I miss it.

 

[Salsa]

I think that identikit middleware like UE3 is also harmful to games, so...

no doubt, but in my argument these are the options:

- make game on UE3 (or any other engine made for the same big budget purposes) under a publisher

- make game on UE3 (or build up your own engine) under no one but yourself

kinda easy to see the benefit

 

[Alucrid]

Is Lost Odyssey really considered a AAA game?

 

[Data West]

Where's my indie open world 3d games? It can be as ugly and small as Lego island just give it to me

 

[Personaj]

I love both, but lately I've been having more fun with indie games. My only complaint is that they're usually so short but I think that's a part of what makes them so great.

I get really excited for 'AAA' games but when I finally play them I don't enjoy them as much as an indie game. They've just been feeling so stale lately. I think I have more fun with the hype than the actual game.

 

[TaroYamada]

Glad to see this brought up in such a visible manner, every gamer should be playing indie games alongside their AAA titles. At this juncture I'd say indies make up around 30% of my gaming time.