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[Toma]

Disclaimer: This thread is not meant to be a discussion whether 'AAA' is a good term, I dont like it either, but it easily gives people a general idea of which games we are talking about.

Disclaimer2: This thread is also not about Gaming recommendations. Please ask those questions in the Indie Games [March] thread linked at the end of the post.

The thread title is also not meant as a universal statement. Its an open minded collection of signs and letters, open for interpretation. The way I see it, is that there is a specific context in which big budget games have an advantage, but on others, Indies shouldnt be dismissed or manage to outshine the "big" games outright (which the thread title refers to). Both kind of games have their own merit, yet only one type of game is the one people give attention to. Why?

I definitely see the merit of big budget games. I really do. Graphics are usually something Indie Games can only dream of and in the last 5 years or so, the big guys pretty much perfected all kinds of 3D TPS and FPS action for the mass market. But not only those, usually sprawling western RPGs like Skyrim or big JRPGs like FF or Lost Odyssey wouldnt be possible on that scale and with those graphics on a significantly lower budget. There definitely is a market and a need for those big budget games, but the same goes for the Indie Gaming scene. While I do look forward to the next Elder Scrolls, The Last of Us, Assassins Creed 4... there is a spectrum of experiences out there, which most people are ignoring and this thread is an attempt to ask you the question: "Why?". I also wont focus on the selling points of big budget games too much, because they are being bought anyway.

Quite apparently, the "Gaming Industry" cant keep up anymore. Features are being cut left and right, and games are being pushed out of the door in a state that no one wanted (SimCity, Aliens:CM, Dead Space 3..). There are still big budget games I have high hopes for, but there are SO MANY titles that get rushed or being thrown into a yearly release schedule, which basically doesnt allow for any major improvements to the formula (Assassins Creed, Madden), just to cash in on the current willingness of the customers to open their wallets.

So why did I feel like making a thread about this?

Unfortunately, Indie Games seem to have a "junk" status when it comes to the overall reception in the gaming community. There are a few things the reception of Indie Games is hurt by, so I made a list of stuff I could think of that actively hurt the reception of Indie Games and my thoughts on it. Please also note that not every problem can be attributed to everyone:

1. "Indie Games are just platformers and generally junk."

Well, platforming games are traditionally one of the easiest game types to develop. Therefore the reception of there being exceptionally many platformers in the Indie scene is actually true! Most of these are also rather low quality since they tend to be the first concept many hobby developers dive their toe into.
However, almost every single platformer that got critical acclaim in the last few years was an Indie Game and there are TONS of them (Thomas was alone, VVVVV, Super Meat Boy, Braid...) That is probably also due to the fact that so many people actually make these kind of games that, naturally, there will also be a concentration of good ones. And if there are countless great games in that genre, why do people feel the need to poke on the, admittedly big amount, of small platformers that do NOT represent the quality these games more than often can provide?
This leads to the next issue that people believe Indie devs are only capable of delivering a very limited range of experiences. In this case, people usually think of Platformers, in my experience. While it is true, that there are some genres where big budget games inherently outshine Indie devs because people WANT those production values, the type of experiences Indie Developers can and are providing isnt nearly as restricted as most people seem to think. The Indie Games March thread alone accounts for the following game types: Platformer, RPG, Art, Adventure, Shmup. Dungeon Crawler, Puzzle, Sim, FPS, Action, Turn Based Tactics... and that thread does not include any of the somewhat older "classics" as Frozen Synapse, Super Meat Boy, Journey. I tried to check out many Indie Games over the past few weeks in preparation for some threads, and I am not able to check out all the promising looking Indie Games that release every week.

2. The Invisibility of Indie Games

GAF (and all major non-Indie focussed gaming forums and reviewing sites) has a very, very 'AAA'-focussed discussion. On GAF, Indie Games are basically invisible. Most Indie Game threads dont reach the 2nd page and never appear again. Some Indie Games actually DO get a good critical reception and get enough attention, but they are far from the norm (Frozen Synapse, SpaceChem, Super Meat Boy, FTL). People also seem to make a totally wrong conclusion after playing the "Big" Indie Games. Instead of thinking "Wow, quite amazing what the Indie scene is capable of", I get the impression they go "Oh, nice the Indie scene finally produced something interesting that even I can enjoy." The problem with that logic is, that there are probably more "critically acclaimed" (by the community and Indie Reviewers) Indie Games in a single year, than there were 'AAA' games throughout the whole past console generation and people simply dont have a fucking clue.
Another problem, that most people are probably not consciously aware of, is the amount of CHOICE people have. There are so many great and interesting Indie Games, that even Indie Game Fans spread out so much in every direction, that its impossible to give a 5 point general recommendation bullet point list for any gamer daring to dip his toes into independent waters.

Player 1: "5 recent important AAA games I should check?"
Player 2-10:"Tomb Raider, Ni No Kuni, Crysis 3, MGS Revengeance and Bioshock Infinite later this month!"

Player 1:"5 recent important Indie games I should check?"
Player 2:"There is a thread... 50 or so interesting games that quite a few people seem to like. Really tough to nail it down to a few, but these 9 should be definitely on your list!Gorogoa, Zineth, Factorio, Kyoto, Micron, Spice Road, The Bridge, The Sea Will Claim Everything, Papers Please, Starseed Pilgrim.."
Player 3:"You really should add Kentucky Route Zero to that List. And Kyoto. Oh and .. what was the name.. Proteus!"
Player 4:"I'd have a few more.. how about..."
Player 1: "..."

And that is the reason why I created a monthly thread for Indie Games, which gives an environment to discuss and digest. To get personal impressions, to help people decide. YOU could and should help with that! Participate in Indie Game threads! Buy a <$5 Indie Game once a week or even once a month and let others know about it! You can even ask people for suggestions according to your taste! Why you should do that? Well, we'll get to that.

3. Indie Games dont sell

This problem is quite apparently highly linked to the Invisibility problem. If people dont notice a game, they wont buy it. But where does that START? If people dont buy a game, no one tells his friends and forums about it. And if that doesnt happen, not enough people buy the game for others to notice it. It would already be very helpful for all kinds of Indie Games if people generally just showed a bit of interest. Just a single thread bump on GAF for any Indie Game could lead to 5 people downloading and playing it. We had a recent example where the March Indie thread contained a certain game in the OP, but only after a few days someone wrote some more impressions on it, people saw it and played it! If that guy hadnt wrote those impressions, the other 5 people still hadnt tried the game. People need to stop thinking that forums are an enclosed space that doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things, ESPECIALLY in the case of Indie Games. An appreciative post about a game can be very important to a developer (Feeps Post 217 comes to mind, which was better PR than anyone of the scribblenauts could have ever dreamed of.)
Besides, even smaller Indies can sell rather well given the right environment. There was a recent discussion going on about Indie games selling disproportionally much on Vita (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516300[url]) There are probably many reasons for it, but the fact that people are actually willing to buy Indie Games, points me back to the Invisibility problem on the PC market, where there is simply too much choice.

4. "Indie developers dont have money to put in lots of interesting features"

Thats only partly true. Its true that Indie teams have way less manpower than the big development teams, but they are usually also smarter about using their assets. Its not too uncommon to hear how people inside a company complain about completely wasting talent and/or monetary resources. I'd love to see what Rayman Origins cost to make, compared to something as, lets say, Braid. Anyway, a big issue about this is the available budget and people equal that with shitty games, especially when it comes to 3D graphics. And while its true that Indie games arent too strong on that regard yet, it would be fatal to assume that these type of games are not possible for Indie developers. Take a look at this short teaser for a 3D Horror game called Routine: [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9XrsWUO9sw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9XrsWUO9sw
Indie Devs can do 3D too. Most people just dont even give them a fair fighting chance because of what they THINK these devs can accomplish.
And completely disregarding the graphics, Indie games actually power more or more ambitious features than 'AAA' games often do because these teams are need to stand out even more from the crowd to get noticed. You dont simply make a game and then expect to sell it, you need to have a unique vision that gets peoples attention away from the wealth of other great Indie releases. And that competition and need for innovation is a very, very efficient drive.

5. People dont trust Indie developers.

Thats a big and tough one. People usually talk about "proven" developers in this case. By that logic no one that is "proven" will ever get enough money to actually make a project to prove themselves. However, people do in fact need to be very wary about Scams, especially when it comes to games they cannot test themselves without buying (thankfully almost every Indie Game out there provides a Demo), since some people do tend to have some rose tinted glasses when justifying a purchase they just made and especially the ones that are still in Alpha/Kickstarting phase. There are many people trying to make money off people that believe they give money to a good project, but on the other hand without this faith in even smaller projects, games like FTL wouldnt have gotten funded and probably wouldnt have reached the quality of polish that the finished product eventually had. Besides, as the recent SimCity example showed, a "proven" history of good games in a series is not a guarantee for great follow up games, especially now that bigger companies seem to shift their focus from "making great games" to "cash in as much as fast as possible". There is definitely no clear ground for this, but if you have people to talk with, talk to them. Forums are a great place to ask for advice and recommendations, especially if the bigger websites dont do it. Youtube is also a valuable source since some of those guys even get exclusive/not publicly available builds to try and comment on.

So back to the central question: Why.
Why should you care about all of this? Why does that matter to you if an Indie Game you dont care about fails or succeeds? Why do I bother you with this if you only care about AAA releases? Why am I bothering writing this all up? Why is anyone bothering really?

1. Price
Kinda obvious, but people should start to vote with their wallet. If the average big budget game costs $60 and we know through recent examples that day 1 reviews might not be the most reliable source, how about holding onto our wallets and buy an Indie Game for $0-$15 (depending on available funds) instead to pass the time until more reliable reports come in? We, as gamers, shouldnt give publishers our undying trust anymore. People got burned often enough, but if people still tend to buy all of these games on day 1, there is no reason for the publishers to overthink their business model. We dont want buggy games on day 1 for $60. We dont want shoehorned Day 1 DLC. We dont want Always Online DRM. We dont want Pay to Win Games. If you have the need to experience a new game, go visit a recent Indie Thread, ask for a recommendation and dive into something you wouldnt have done instead.

2. People are missing out on great games
And I mean seriously, there are probably more great Indie Games I can name that I am looking forward to than I can even think of 'AAA' releases. Here is a quick list made by 2 people:
Gone Home, Dreamfall Chapters, Monaco, There Came An Echo, Zeno Clash 2, Planetary Annihilation, Sir You Are Being Hunted, Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs, Starbound, RESET, Grim Dawn, Star Citizen, Shadowrun Returns, Project Eternity, RIOT, Defense Grid 2, Routine, Daylight, Death Inc, Delver's Drop, INFRA, Hammerwatch, Legend of Dungeon, Distance, Stardew Valley, Mewgenics, The Witness, Lovers In A Dangerous Spacetime, Ether One, Asylum, Among The Sleep, Gunpoint, else { Heart.break() }, Republique, Maia, Ir/rational Investigator, Radio the Universe, Gero Blaster, New Game+, The Swapper, Cube World, Axiom Verge, Scale, Super TIME Force, Depth, Castle Story, STASIS, Volgarr the Viking, Under The Ocean, STEALER, Badland, Europa

3. We need to make sure great developers get attention
Some developers did some really great work and those are the developers that deserve money and attention. Maybe to port a great game to more platforms (Frozen Synapse to PSN comes to mind) or simply to allow developers that already wowed us with their playable vision to advance what was possible for them on their first try or in that pre-release alpha that still had some edges that needed to be taken care of. The funds from a single big budget release of the current gaming industry (Assassins Creeds 1000 man team comes to mind) could probably fund 1000 worthwhile Indie Games. The relation of the monetarily distribution between projects is completely out of whack. And even if you are not able to buy one or two $5 to $10 Indie Games a month, just talking about what seems interesting is helping smaller developers.

4. Because we need to evolve the medium.
As some of you may have noticed, video games are a very rapidly growing medium. I got the impression that it actually grew at a speed where no one was able to keep up buying appropriate clothes. Something just doesnt fit. And that something, is first and foremost, how we view our favourite medium. By "we" I am not even talking about a "general" populace that we need to convince that videogames arent killing people. By "we", I mean us. You, me, your friends, GAF, IGN and all the others that are already involved in Videogames. We cant just stay on a level that explores male power fantasies over and over again. There are so many other emotions, ideas and concepts worth exploring, that it boggles the mind that people dont care. The concept of "killing" itself is something that is so natural to many gamers that they cannot play games that dont allow the player to kill things in one form or the other as one of the main concepts. Its a cheap thrill, that people got used to seeking over and over and over again. If you have some downtime, check how many big budget games (Mario Games do count) came out that lately that involved killing/defeating someone in one way or the other. (Almost every single release except sports games) And how do those numbers look if you consider recently released Indie Games? In the Indie Games [March] thread, the last time I counted, it was 2/3rds of all the mentioned games that did NOT involve the player killing something. So how are Indie Games filling that element?
They are exploring other ideas and usually succeed splendidly by focussing on only one aspect. Loneliness. Anger. Love. Fear of Death. Transcendence. Exploration. Complete and utter wackiness. Specific Illnesses. The list is basically endless and the best thing about that is that Indie devs arent afraid to explore these concepts and ideas. We want more substantial discussions and to be taken more serious? Indie Games are actually providing a path for that development, despite often misleadingly simple looking graphics.

5. Only playing big budget games is tainting us.
The biggest issue I see here, is that we are conforming ourselves to certain standards, which dont allow for any deviation of the norm. And if anyone deviates from said norm, it usually means failure. That is especially true for the big budget releases. Just compare the MP modes of all the big FPS games. Almost all of them play it safe, by offering similar modes and the same incentives to keep playing the games. Its not necessarily a bad thing to include a feature which has proven to be fun in another game or previous iteration of the series, but the serious lack of diversity is hurting everybody's gaming experiences. As I said waaay up above, big budget games shouldnt go away. They serve a purpose and players want them. But I sometimes get the impression that we need to "reeducate" ourselves how to play games out of our own comfort zone. I remember that I didnt question a recommendation by a friend a lot when he handed me a game. And its a real pity that so many people seem to have lost that willingness to explore other areas of gaming. Social gaming and dumbing down sequels are softening those barriers a bit (See SimCity), but that in the end still leaves us with games that mostly publishers want (especially in the social gaming scene) as endless cash grabs. What I am saying, try to spread out! Has anyone reading this played games from 10 different genres since the start of the year? The Indie Games thread alone accounts for 11. This doesnt mean that big budget games should be abandoned. But they should be treated equally to "low" budget games.

6. Probably more I cant think of right now.

Before ending the thread, lets just give a single example (out of countless others, see threads below) how a seemingly rather simple platforming game called Starseed Pilgrim challenge the notion of what most players are used to in a game. Please keep in mind that this is just a single example of a game that might not appeal to you personally. I am just using it to get my point across that these developers can do things that big developers cant:

http://www.starseedpilgrim.com/get.html

Do you still know what it means to explore a game? Because this game will challenge that idea not only on a visual level, but also on a technical level. The "aspect" of exploration does not necessarily entail "running around" and finding hidden caves or monsters. The first thing you'll need to discover here are the rules. How to play? How to move? How to advance? Why am I advancing? Who or what are these people? Why are there differently colored blocks? Where do I need to go?
This game rarely offers a definite direction, and even though there is a goal, the temptation to deviate from the path to just build and figure out how things "work" is strong. During the first hour of play, most players will simply feel confused and probably angered at not being able to progress in a way they are used to. Instead they need to sit back and actually watch their surroundings, and take into account and evaluate how the game reacts to the player. The basic gameplay revolves around growing "seeds", which then turn into structures that the player can traverse, but the process of finding out how to use these new found tools was so refreshingly unique and even mysterious, that I would consider it a recent gaming experience I wouldnt want to miss. What people take from games inevitably varies, but it showed me that I didnt lose the sense of wonder and curiousity that games instilled in me when I was younger. It was pure fun to explore what this game had to offer, and showed me that a recent surge of disinterest in gaming wasnt necessarily due to me getting older, but due to the games I have been playing being less and less playful. I always loved Indie Games, but completely submerging myself in these kind of games and closely examining what these Indie devs have to offer, rejuvenated my interest for my hobby, which I am very glad for.
Now you may not have the exact same reaction to this game, or to any other I may recommend to you, but I am convinced that there are Games somewhere that will evoke emotions and thoughts that you havent encountered yet. Maybe you'll find one in the threads below?

Need good place to start? Feel free to rummage these two threads here, which should provide you with months of gaming bliss:

There is a lovely thread series over here which just collected some of the most recent Indie Games (which still is being added to, but currently contains 40+ recently released and 30+ games to look forward to) and a nice community of people interesting in giving recommendations and talking to people about ideas and concepts behind games:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=517647

..on top of the all time GAF favourite "Overlooked Indie Game recommendations" thread by Salsa:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411010

So GAF. Please go Indie once in a while. These games deserve and need it. A huge thanks to all the people participating in the Indie Games March thread, but it should be way, way more.

 

[Isaccard]

Nah, fuck indie games jank

Fez looks pretty cool though

 

[Toma]

Alright Gaf, we'll see whether this thread gets some discussion and/or interest. I'll be off to bed now after writing this stuff up for 6-7 hours. If you miss me, go play some Indie Games in the mean time (many of which are free!) from the linked threads, to stay in the spirit of the thread!

 

[jetjevons]

They're ying and yang to me.

 

[Pachterballs]

just play good games.

 

[Ryce]

I suppose it's my problem, but there's not a single indie game that interests me. I own hundreds of "AAA" games.

 

[Draper]

I love 'em all.

 

[Visualante2]

I don't understand why Starseed Pilgrim isn't on Steam, IGF finalists get fast tracked.

 

[TentPole]

RE4 is better than any indie game ever made.

Edit: RE4 is better than any indie game that I have ever played.

 

[Toma]

just play good games.

Thats what I am saying. People usually dont realize that their definition of "good" is being obstructed by vague ideas of what they think certain games are.

 

[xJavonta]

Inb4 Derrick

I agree with all of your points as always, Toma. Though I didn't read it thoroughly.

 

[Deleted member 8095]

There's good and bad with both. Not sure you can say one is better than the other. For every good AAA there's 5 bad AAA games. For every good indie game there's 10,000 bad indie games.

 

[Toma]

There's good and bad with both. Not sure you can say one is better than the other. For every good AAA there's 5 bad AAA games. For every good indie game there's 10,000 bad indie games.

Read the OP. I was even so kind to put the explanation of the thread title into the first paragraph after the disclaimers.

 

[Isaccard]

Inb4 Derrick

I agree with all of your points as always, Toma. Though I didn't read it thoroughly.

I don't think I've ever seen him ever talk about

Spoiler

how much he hates

indie titles.

 

[Übermatik]

"Indie"

"AAA"

 

[JordanN]

I tend to ignore indie games out of fear how jankie and unpolished some are. Like I saw one Indie game that interest me (A Hat in Time) but even watching the gameplay, it looked and played very rough.

That's not to say I'll never play an Indie game. I actually see a future for them if or whenever the industry crashes.

 

[GrizzNKev]

I like a game that is good. I can like an indie game just as much or more than a AAA, and vice versa. I don't think budget or staff numbers defines an experience.

 

[Shaanyboi]

just play good games.

This.

The idea that you can't somehow enjoy both or that you can somehow compare them is kind of a joke... It's like saying you can only enjoy either The Avengers or Take Shelter. Like...what? No.


As a wise girl once said...

 

[Sentenza]

I suppose it's my problem, but there's not a single indie game that interests me. I own hundreds of "AAA" games.

Yes, it is.
I'm not even going to claim that "indie games" are generally better than "AAA games" because that would be equally nonsense as a broad generalization, but if not a single indie game around interests you, you are either incredibly narrow and closed-minded with your taste or completely unaware of what indie games the market offers today.

 

[Toma]

"Indie"

"AAA"

Yeah, lets not pull that discussion here though. I needed to put a name on these concepts to get the points across.

 

[Toma]

Yes, it is.
I'm not even going to claim that "indie games" are generally better than "AAA games" because that would be equally nonsense as a broad generalization, but if not a single indie game around interests you you are either incredibly narrow and closed-minded with your taste or completely unaware of what indie games the market offers today.

Sure, I am not either btw. It was meant to get people in here to actually talk. And I explained the the way the thread title is meant clearly in the first paragraph.

This.

The idea that you can't somehow enjoy both or that you can somehow compare them is kind of a joke... It's like saying you can only enjoy either The Avengers or Take Shelter. Like...what? No.


As a wise girl once said...

Which is exactly what this thread is saying btw. People should start reading the OP.

 

[GrizzNKev]

Sure, I am not either btw. It was meant to get people in here to actually talk. And I explained the the way the thread title is meant clearly in the first paragraph.



Which is exactly what this thread is saying btw. People should start reading the OP.

I think people are simply agreeing with you.

 

[Sentenza]

Sure, I am not either btw. It was meant to get people in here to actually talk. And I explained the the way the thread title is meant clearly in the first paragraph.



Which is exactly what this thread is saying btw.

Uhm, yeah, that's great, but I wasn't answering to you, nor quoting you.

 

[Zeppelin]

I love AAA games. I like the spectacle and I like seeing tech being pushed.

 

[Toma]

I think people are simply agreeing with you.

Grah, tired. I'll be back tomorrow. Sorry guys, its late. I was just probably expecting people to pick up the thread the wrong way.

 

[Deleted member 8095]

Read the OP. I was even so kind to put the explanation of the thread title into the first paragraph after the disclaimers.

Should have made a better thread title then.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Which is exactly what this thread is saying btw. People should start reading the OP.

The thread starts off on the wrong foot from the title. I get that you want to challenge the perception of indie games as janky platformers and shit, but "A" > "B" title is still combative.

 

[flyinpiranha]

I have enjoyed some but I don't go out of my way to find them. They have to be pretty well accepted before I really give them a shot.

I guess a lot of the Indie games reflect what I played growing up since the early 80's. I've played the zany pixelated guy with weird powers that traverses through a crazy spaceship and such.

I've grown with the medium and now there's a reason I have a 60" HDTV, surround sound, and a "comfy couch" ... it's because I want to be "wow'd". It's sad in some ways, but awesome in others because I never feel like I'm missing anything. Indies exist and so do the big cinematic adventures and I just happen to find the latter more compelling for me.

It's not to say I don't appreciate all aspects of gaming though. I own games on an iPad, Android, 3DS, PC, 360, PS3 (sold) and Wii. But I'm drawn to the more "AAA" games. I just like what they deliver more than Indie games.

 

[Davey Cakes]

RE4 is better than any indie game ever made.

Edit: RE4 is better than any indie game that I have ever played.

Sure, but RE4 is better than most games, period.

 

[Lysander91]

What about good games > bad games? That's all I really care about.

 

[xJavonta]

I don't think I've ever seen him ever talk about

Spoiler

how much he hates

indie titles.

I vaguely remember Derrick saying something along the lines that indies are generally inferior to AAA games but it seems s/he's warming up to them (MotN must have changed something lol)

 

[Dance Inferno]

I've been getting more and more into indie games recently, and I had some wonderful experiences last year with games like Rochard and LIMBO that you don't see with AAA games.

I think the great thing about indies is that they do a better job at exploring the boundaries of what kinds of experiences one can create with video games, but the problem is separating the wheat from the chaff is generally an arduous process. I'll play games that have lots of word of mouth (i.e., Mark of the Ninja), but I'm wary of spending money on indies that I haven't heard much about since they might end up disappointing me (i.e., Deadlight).

 

[gdt]

I own tons of indie games and AAA games. I just get whatever interests me and is supposed to me good. ATM I'm playing Dusk on XBLA (ewwwww, please put this game on Steam) and FTL. After that I think I'll tackle Lone Survivor.

 

[7Th]

Niche Japanese games for losers are the best.

 

[BlueMagic]

Which is exactly what this thread is saying btw. People should start reading the OP.

Title kinda says otherwise.

 

[Toma]

Title kinda says otherwise.

No it doesnt. Its just a matter of context. The OP explains why.

And it also worked to get people in here to start a discussion, which is all the title was intended for.

 

[Derrick01]

I wish indie games had the chops to be more than shallow NES or arcade type games in most cases. I'm not sure if some of these kickstarter RPGs like Wasteland 2 and Dead State count (not sure why they wouldn't) but I'm looking forward to those a lot more than what I'm assuming most people on this board are hyped for as far as indie stuff goes, because those will have some production values and depth behind them. Then again most of them were funded with money in the range of $350k-$3 million so I guess they have more of an advantage.

 

[Tain]

You're worried about using the term "AAA", but "indie" is way more problematic.

 

[GrizzNKev]

I believe quality can exist in any form.

I know this is a simplification, but I just thought of it.

Purchase Influence = (Price/Content) * Quality

Basically, I can observe a game or play a demo to infer the quality of its content, while its price (at launch) will tell me how much content I should expect. There are of course plenty of exceptions.

 

[RionaaM]

Is this a thread where I can talk about my love for the Bit.Trip franchise? Because I totally love the Bit.Trip franchise.

 

[Pikma]

For me it's AA(Mostly from Japan)>Indie>AAA.

I really can't remember when was the last time I genuinely enjoyed a AAA game.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

If you're purchasing decision for a game is based around what arbitrary label ("INDIE", "AAA") and not the quality of the game then I feel bad for you.

 

[Beaulieu]

that's a shockingly huge OP for something that is the same as saying oranges>apples

 

[Hazaro]

Niche Japanese games for winners are the best.

or any game with a tight focus on a specific gameplay aspect.

There are a lot of good indie games that do different things and are breath of fresh air. I've grown tired of all the blockbuster action mass market games.
One of the giant problems is visibility and perceptions they are worse, which really is a shame.

It's kind of funny to see some people talk about Mark of the Ninja and Skullgirls and not call them indie because they look nicer or are polished.

 

[xelios]

Indie encompasses way too many games and levels of quality at this point in time for the word to really mean a damn thing to me. I like fun games. Some of them don't cost much to make or weren't made by many people (sometimes only one person; Cave Story is one of my favorite games) and sometimes I scratch my head at how expensive they were to make and how many people worked on them to deliver my 4 hour on rails experience, but oh well it was still fun.

 

[JordanLMiller]

That op is waaaay too long for what it has to say.

Put more indie games on platforms other than pc and I'd play them.

 

[Sentenza]

I wish indie games had the chops to be more than shallow NES or arcade type games in most cases.

But they often are:
Mount & Blade,
FTL,
Mark of the Ninja,
Legend of Grimrock,
and a lot more...

Just because there is a lot of uninspired, unambitious, uninteresting shit among indie games, that shouldn't be what defines the entire production.

Of course, that also doesn't mean people should constantly shit over high budget productions claiming that indie games are generally better, because they often really aren't.

 

[Ryce]

Yes, it is.
I'm not even going to claim that "indie games" are generally better than "AAA games" because that would be equally nonsense as a broad generalization, but if not a single indie game around interests you, you are either incredibly narrow and closed-minded with your taste or completely unaware of what indie games the market offers today.

Close-minded? No, I just don't play a ton of games these days (despite spending a lot of time on these forums), and the games that do catch my eye just so happen to be "AAA." I don't actively seek out big budget games or anything like that. The genres and art styles that tend to dominate "indie" games generally don't do much for me -- I'm not saying they're bad games, but they're not for me.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I try to play with Pylon_Trooper posts and talks about. I know his tastes and they are pretty agreeable to me. I have a hard time keeping up, but that's more because of my personal life and limited game time. I always spend some time with indie games per month and appreciate what they bring to me, a PC gamer with decidedly old-school genre tastes but a fetish for new and inventive systems design within those genres.

I have a real personal pet peeve going with the whole explorative indie game scene that intentionally de-emphasizes skill testing and game systems in their design in favor of delivering an experience. But that's totally specific to me and I'm glad they exist-but before I buy an indie game I now make double sure it's not going to be another "experience" game with limited gameplay elements.

edit: in terms of indie popularity on GAF-this has always been a console-centric forum. It's got more people playing on the PC now as a percentage than it did even back in the 1999/2000 era as a whole, but when you take off on a niche segment that is already only open to a minority of the forum posters, you will get less traffic and things will get lost. You just have to keep at it and know that your crusade for these games aren't one that is going to have some breakthrough moment, and it's the occasional post of thanks and/or inquiry that makes your efforts worthwhile.

 

[Sentenza]

Close-minded? No, I just don't play a ton of games these days (despite spending a lot of time on these forums), and the games that do catch my eye just so happen to be "AAA." I don't actively seek out big budget games or anything like that.

So I was right with the second option: you DO have a problem of awareness.